Bike Shaped Objects

[Tim Hall]

This weekend saw me, two other alleged grown ups and 13 Scouts riding
from Guildford along the North Downs, then south to Crawley. A Good
Time Was Had By All. We camped overnight at a Scout site on Box Hill.

But the bikes! Many of the kids had 99 quid full suspension bike
shaped objects. This is the first time I've had to study such things
in detail and they are <preaching to the choir> gob smackingly bad.
So heavy, almost heavier than the lads riding them. One parent
proudly told me he'd got two for 99 quid. That's 50 quid a bike, with
springs at each end. I bit my tongue, it wasn't the time or place for
a lecture.

However (hurrah!) the enthusiasm of the kids overcame the quality of
the bikes. They just kept going, undaunted, and most managed their own
personal Alpe d'Huez riding up the zig zags to get to the top of Box
Hill.


No p*nct*r*s but: One set of loose cones, two saddles too low, one set
of badly adjusted brakes, one slipping gear cable (this less than a
mile from the start) and the piece de wossname, a crank that fell off.
Having been ridden loose for a few miles the hole in the crank was
shagged, so it got retightened about half a dozen times over the
weekend. Yes, a bike check before hand would have been a good idea.


Only 20 miles per day, but they enjoyed it hugely, and were back in
time to watch a sporting event on the tv.


Tim

 

[daren]

Tim Hall wrote:
>
> But the bikes! Many of the kids had 99 quid full suspension bike
> shaped objects. This is the first time I've had to study such things
> in detail and they are <preaching to the choir> gob smackingly bad.
> So heavy, almost heavier than the lads riding them. One parent
> proudly told me he'd got two for 99 quid. That's 50 quid a bike, with
> springs at each end. I bit my tongue, it wasn't the time or place for
> a lecture.

I bought my 8yo a Kona Hula on ebay, absolutely fantastic. A real bike,
21 speed, rapidfire, butted aluminium frame, and so light. Bid 127
pounds, would have paid more. New price is 280. You can get real bikes
for kids, but they start at about 150-200 without full suspension. The
24" wheel kona Stab is about 1200, but I think that is of more appeal
to persons of limited stature, rather than age.

> However (hurrah!) the enthusiasm of the kids overcame the quality of
> the bikes. They just kept going, undaunted, and most managed their own
> personal Alpe d'Huez riding up the zig zags to get to the top of Box
> Hill.

Keep pumping the chocolate bourbons, 1 per 2-3 miles, followed by
bananas. Considering bike weight as fraction of body weight, those
children have to work pretty hard. Think mgh.

> No p*nct*r*s but: One set of loose cones, two saddles too low, one set
> of badly adjusted brakes, one slipping gear cable (this less than a
> mile from the start) and the piece de wossname, a crank that fell off.
> Having been ridden loose for a few miles the hole in the crank was
> shagged, so it got retightened about half a dozen times over the
> weekend. Yes, a bike check before hand would have been a good idea.

Standard stuff for the kids bikes around my way. I tend to check most
of the bikes in the road.

> Only 20 miles per day, but they enjoyed it hugely, and were back in
> time to watch a sporting event on the tv.

Portugal by a headbutt!

regards,
daren
--
remove outer garment for reply

 

[bugbear]

Tim Hall wrote:
> This weekend saw me, two other alleged grown ups and 13 Scouts riding
>
> No p*nct*r*s but: One set of loose cones, two saddles too low

This surprises me; I'd have expected 15 (!!) saddles to
be too low.

I have gone on several 25 mile sponsored rides; I go
as a "rider/mechanic/helper". At the gathering point I have
a small kit of tools, 2 track pumps (schrada and presta),
and some squirt lube.

For the vast majority of people turning up,

* I inflate the tyres to the pressure printed
on the tyre; their tyres are normally at 1/3 to 1/2
of this pressure when they arrive.

* I lubricate the chain, which is normally dry going
on rusty.

* I raise the saddle by an inch. Possibly more.

These 3 action are appropriate and required for around
70% of people (or their bikes), IME, over 5 rides of 50 people a time.

BugBear

 

[Lol]

"Tim Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snip>
> But the bikes! Many of the kids had 99 quid full suspension bike
> shaped objects. This is the first time I've had to study such things
> in detail and they are <preaching to the choir> gob smackingly bad.
> So heavy, almost heavier than the lads riding them. One parent
> proudly told me he'd got two for 99 quid. That's 50 quid a bike, with
> springs at each end. I bit my tongue, it wasn't the time or place for
> a lecture.
>
>
> Tim

But now is a good time to give advice on what parents should do.

My 8 yr old's Giant is a supposedly reputable make - I tried, not from Argus
or Halfords but it's still too heavy.
Economics - a bike that will be outgrown in 2-3 years is not worth designing
properly as it costs too much. Adding another few dozen gears and suspension
parts is cheaper and attractive to the children. Is that what happens?
What does the enlightened parent do? advice please!
Lol

 

[Tony Raven]

Lol wrote on 27/06/2006 00:13 +0100:
>
> What does the enlightened parent do? advice please!
> Lol
>

The Islabikes at the York Rally looked very nice. Well made childrens
bikes at reasonable prices.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

 

[David Martin]

Tony Raven wrote:
> Lol wrote on 27/06/2006 00:13 +0100:
> >
> > What does the enlightened parent do? advice please!
> > Lol
> >
>
> The Islabikes at the York Rally looked very nice. Well made childrens
> bikes at reasonable prices.

Definitely 'no frills' - ie no unnecessary extras and well designed
parts to fit small hands. And the pricing was very competitive. I'm
definitely considering one for Rachel but she seems to want lots of
gears.. However the design lends itself to upgrading and uses good
quality parts.

They say they offer a buy-back part exchange on their bikes - wonder
what happens to the used ones?

...d

 

[Phil Armstrong]

David Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Tony Raven wrote:
>> Lol wrote on 27/06/2006 00:13 +0100:
>> >
>> > What does the enlightened parent do? advice please!
>> > Lol
>> >
>>
>> The Islabikes at the York Rally looked very nice. Well made childrens
>> bikes at reasonable prices.

We've just bought one for our three year old (the Cnoc). He loves it!

It's well thought out -- the review in the last Velovision was pretty
spot on, but for those who don't subscribe: you get a coaster brake on
the back (little legs can push the pedals back easily), plus a proper
front rim brake (U brake? V brake? One of those where the brake cable
goes across the top with a noodle) with a nice light action & a
reach-adjustable brake handle. The handlebars sized for small
hands. Proper saddle. Nice solid looking frame. All very shiny in
silver and black.

Not a *light* bike, but still considerably lighter than the children's
bikes I looked at in the local bike shops which appeared to be made
out of cast iron and weighed more than the adult bikes.

> Definitely 'no frills' - ie no unnecessary extras and well designed
> parts to fit small hands. And the pricing was very competitive. I'm
> definitely considering one for Rachel but she seems to want lots of
> gears.. However the design lends itself to upgrading and uses good
> quality parts.
>
> They say they offer a buy-back part exchange on their bikes - wonder
> what happens to the used ones?

Since she (Isla that is) has only just started up I doubt there are
very many used ones yet! Presumably they'll be sold on as second hand
bikes. You'd probably get more money selling on via ebay though.

Phil

--
http://www.kantaka.co.uk/ .oOo. public key: http://www.kantaka.co.uk/gpg.txt

 

[daren]

Lol wrote:
>
> But now is a good time to give advice on what parents should do.
>
> My 8 yr old's Giant is a supposedly reputable make - I tried, not from Argus
> or Halfords but it's still too heavy.
> Economics - a bike that will be outgrown in 2-3 years is not worth designing
> properly as it costs too much. Adding another few dozen gears and suspension
> parts is cheaper and attractive to the children. Is that what happens?
> What does the enlightened parent do? advice please!
> Lol

Not so, there are plenty of well-designed bikes, they do however cost.
We have gone down the following route.

Began with a 12" Raleigh Bluebell, about thirty years old, solid tyres,
stabilizers
moved to a 16" Raleigh Kobo: red, steel, not light but well made
(UKP80)
moved to a 20" Trek MT60, silver, light, aluminium, VERY adjustable,
6speed (UKP180)
moved to a 24" Kona Hula, green, very light aluminium 21speed (used
UKP127, new 280)

Am also considering a 24" road bike (Giant TCR), altough the Kona is so
light I wonder about the advantages.

Up to 24" bikes have all lasted 2-3 years. It helps greatly that I have
two sons, 3yrs apart, so bike handover occurs at the same time. I also
believe that buying quality will recover more of the cost come resale
time. All bikes should be in sex-neutral colours as a matter of course.
Never buy anything branded Action Man\Power Rangers\Barbie\Bratz... as
the licensing costs would be better spent on useful functional
components (like V-brakes!).

For quality 24" bikes; Dawes (Hybrid), Kona (MTB), Trek (MTB and road),
Giant (MTB and Road), also Specialized. Prices start at about 250. If
you want something slightly cheaper head to Decathalon. Avoid Halfords,
but especially avoid Toys-R-Us. Buy quality used over new every time,
they are harder to find, but I have bought two used Trek MT60's for
friends and am looking for another!

We also have a KMX K class, but that is more for fun, again having two
boys makes the price bearable.

regards,
daren
--
remove outer garment for reply

 

[Danny Colyer]

Lol wondered:
> What does the enlightened parent do? advice please!

Probably go for an Islabikes, as everyone else seems to have suggested
so far:
<url:http://www.islabikes.co.uk/>

Unless the child in question insists that the bike has to be a certain
colour (pink, in my case), in which case go for a Puky and just live
with the extra weight:
<url:http://www.puky.net/homepage/>

--
Danny Colyer <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
Subscribe to PlusNet <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/referral/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

 

[Rob Morley]

In article <[email protected]>
Danny Colyer <[email protected]> wrote:
> Lol wondered:
> > What does the enlightened parent do? advice please!
>
> Probably go for an Islabikes, as everyone else seems to have suggested
> so far:
> <url:http://www.islabikes.co.uk/>
>
> Unless the child in question insists that the bike has to be a certain
> colour (pink, in my case), in which case go for a Puky and just live
> with the extra weight:
> <url:http://www.puky.net/homepage/>
>
>
How hard is it to paint a frame pink?

 

[wheelist]

"Tim Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snip>
> But the bikes! Many of the kids had 99 quid full suspension bike
> shaped objects. This is the first time I've had to study such things
> in detail and they are <preaching to the choir> gob smackingly bad.
> So heavy, almost heavier than the lads riding them. One parent
> proudly told me he'd got two for 99 quid. That's 50 quid a bike, with
> springs at each end. I bit my tongue, it wasn't the time or place for
> a lecture.
>
>
> Tim

But now is a good time to give advice on what parents should do.

My 8 yr old's Giant is a supposedly reputable make - I tried, not from Argus
or Halfords but it's still too heavy.
Economics - a bike that will be outgrown in 2-3 years is not worth designing
properly as it costs too much. Adding another few dozen gears and suspension
parts is cheaper and attractive to the children. Is that what happens?
What does the enlightened parent do? advice please!
Lol

a) Buy decent 2nd hand bikes, ex-shop display or last year's models.

b) As Daren points out, if you've got more than one child then spend more money on the first bike for the eldest - it'll pay dividends when you pass it on to the next (and the next etc).

c) Learn bicycle maintenance! Teach it to the kids as they wear their bikes out. A decent bike will be easier to maintain/repair and will last much, much longer. It'll also be nicer/more fun to ride, and maintenance will instil a sense of pride/ownership.

Basically, I'm suggesting spending a little more. I remember as a kid contributing some of my pocket money to the more expensive presents I received. Made me appreciate the value of the things.

I recycle bikes for friends and charity. This involves repairing those bikes that are repairable (or worth repairing) and stripping useful parts from those that aren't. I'm constantly appalled at the low quality of the kids bikes I receive - £99 bikes aren't worth recycling and there's little of worth to be taken from them. Generally, they're heavy, the suspensions sucks, the cranks fail and the levers break - cheap **** from top to bottom.

There are exceptions to the **** bikes for kids (though not at £99). As well is IslaBikes, I find that Saracen make nice kids bikes and are reasonable value, and Specialized are hard to beat for quality (and cool).

Wheelist

 

[David Martin]

wheelist wrote:
> > My 8 yr old's Giant is a supposedly reputable make - I tried, not from
> > Argus
> > or Halfords but it's still too heavy.
> > Economics - a bike that will be outgrown in 2-3 years is not worth
> > designing
> > properly as it costs too much. Adding another few dozen gears and
> > suspension
> > parts is cheaper and attractive to the children. Is that what happens?
> > What does the enlightened parent do? advice please!
> > Lola) Buy decent 2nd hand bikes, ex-shop display or last year's models.
>
> b) As Daren points out, if you've got more than one child then spend
> more money on the first bike for the eldest - it'll pay dividends when
> you pass it on to the next (and the next etc).

Absolutely.. We bought the Raleigh Kobo16 for each of our two. Heavy
but solid and almost indestructible first bike. A tad overgeared on
grass but I might be able to remedy that.

So far they have been passed down a couple of times with no
modification/maintenance needed. (#2 son has one, second oldest cousin
has the other.) I envisage them moving on to a few other kids in their
lifetime. Good value at 90 quid, though now I would get the Cnoc16 from
Isla as 10 quid either way won't make much difference in teh long term
but the bike is better.

> c) Learn bicycle maintenance! Teach it to the kids as they wear their
> bikes out. A decent bike will be easier to maintain/repair and will
> last much, much longer. It'll also be nicer/more fun to ride, and
> maintenance will instil a sense of pride/ownership.

> Basically, I'm suggesting spending a little more. I remember as a kid
> contributing some of my pocket money to the more expensive presents I
> received. Made me appreciate the value of the things.

That is a good idea.. Rachel currently borrows Alan's MTB (Giant MTX
250, a 24" wheel), though the seat won't quite go high enough (she can
now start off without having to be sat on the seat). Peter (4.5 yo)
decided he wanted a go on it and could almost ride it. Maybe I have
been too pessimistic on size and he should be riding the 20" (now
looking at the Islabikes for Rachel - just have to decide whether she
should get road[cross] or mountain, and which size)

> I recycle bikes for friends and charity. This involves repairing those
> bikes that are repairable (or worth repairing) and stripping useful
> parts from those that aren't. I'm constantly appalled at the low
> quality of the kids bikes I receive - £99 bikes aren't worth recycling
> and there's little of worth to be taken from them. Generally, they're
> heavy, the suspensions sucks, the cranks fail and the levers break -
> cheap **** from top to bottom.

Absolutely. Plastic coated steel brakes (to look like decent resin
brakes), pressed steel brakes, ****, badly machined hubs. Much can be
recycled though the 'precision' components (shifters etc.) are usually
toast.

> There are exceptions to the **** bikes for kids (though not at £99). As
> well is IslaBikes, I find that Saracen make nice kids bikes and are
> reasonable value, and Specialized are hard to beat for quality (and
> cool).

Giant do a good range of reasonable quality bikes. Anyway, I'll
probably hire/borrow some over the holidays to see what is good, and
then she'll be up to the Go-Ride club to try some other bits. (I can
see shoes/cleats on the horizon - she has already asked)

...d

 

[Jane]

Rob Morley wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>
> Danny Colyer <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Lol wondered:
>>> What does the enlightened parent do? advice please!
>> Probably go for an Islabikes, as everyone else seems to have suggested
>> so far:
>> <url:http://www.islabikes.co.uk/>
>>
>> Unless the child in question insists that the bike has to be a certain
>> colour (pink, in my case), in which case go for a Puky and just live
>> with the extra weight:
>> <url:http://www.puky.net/homepage/>
>>
>>
> How hard is it to paint a frame pink?
Well for my 7yd we got
http://www.falconcycles.co.uk/CORP/ShogunJunior/Sabre.html

she love it and its not to heavy and seams quite tough. She needs the
suspension as shes on rough tracks 98% of the time!!
ttfn
Jane

 

[Danny Colyer]

Rob Morley wrote:
> How hard is it to paint a frame pink?

To paint a chrome frame so that it looks as good as a properly powder
coated frame, without actually getting it powder coated? Nigh on
impossible, I believe, and I really don't want to have to bother with it.

I suggested buying an Islabikes and decorating it with the same tape
that I used on her unicycle, but no, it had to be properly pink.

--
Danny Colyer <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
Subscribe to PlusNet <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/referral/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

 

[Rob Morley]

In article <[email protected]>
Danny Colyer <[email protected]> wrote:
> Rob Morley wrote:
> > How hard is it to paint a frame pink?
>
> To paint a chrome frame

The Islabikes are alloy.

> so that it looks as good as a properly powder
> coated frame, without actually getting it powder coated?

Are proper bikes powder coated? We always used stove enamel.

> Nigh on
> impossible, I believe, and I really don't want to have to bother with it.
>
You should be able to get reasonable results with acrylic spray paint
quite easily. But I suppose I'm biased, having been used to spraying
frames professionally. I did use aerosols to spray the first bike I
built when I was 14, and that looked quite smart.

> I suggested buying an Islabikes and decorating it with the same tape
> that I used on her unicycle, but no, it had to be properly pink.
>
Females are supposed to be less visually motivated than males, but when
we were looking for bikes for my SO she seemed to care more about the
paint than the mechanics, and she later insisted on buying a Chopper
despite me warning her that they don't ride like proper bikes ...

 

[Danny Colyer]

I wrote:
>>To paint a chrome frame

and Rob Morley responded:
> The Islabikes are alloy.

Of course, that struck me shortly after posting. Still just as much
hassle to paint, though. I'd have had to dismantle the bike completely,
hide all the bits, find time and a location to paint the bike without DD
seeing it, somewhere where it could also be left to dry without her
seeing it, and the chances are the result would still be disappointing.
Besides, she *loves* the flag on the Puky

> Are proper bikes powder coated? We always used stove enamel.

Dunno. I thought powder coating was usual.

> You should be able to get reasonable results with acrylic spray paint
> quite easily. But I suppose I'm biased, having been used to spraying
> frames professionally. I did use aerosols to spray the first bike I
> built when I was 14, and that looked quite smart.

I got reasonable results spraying DW's mudguards and pedals purple, but
not good enough that I'd be happy moving on to a frame. I didn't get
particularly good results spraying my Muni rim red, which would tend to
put me off.

> Females are supposed to be less visually motivated than males,

Maybe when choosing a partner, but for anything else? Surely not.

--
Danny Colyer <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
Subscribe to PlusNet <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/referral/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

 

[wheelist]

Are proper bikes powder coated? We always used stove enamel.

..

Stove enamelling is a popular finish here in the UK, but less so elsewhere, so you'll tend to find resprays are mostly enamelling whilst new bikes are generally powder coated.

Pretty much the only difference is that the powder is applied dry (electrostatically) whereas enamel is sprayed on wet.

Both process involve heating in an oven to fix the finish, and both are tougher than standard spray paint.

It's possible to get a nice enough finish with car spray paint though. Just makesure the frame is clean, put a few coats on (sanding finely between coats) and a lacquer to finish.

Wheelist