Bike Weight redux

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Doug Taylor, Mar 21, 2006.

  1. "Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

    XXXXXXX"

    i was wondering where safire got off to...
     


  2. bfd

    bfd Guest

    "dvt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > A Muzi wrote:
    > > CHR drive train [4],

    >
    > > 4- hard to sell 'junk' even if it is light. Quality drive train because
    > > we still have to _sell_ it.

    >
    > Sorry for the dumb question... what's a "CHR drive train?"
    >

    I think "CHR" refers to Campagnolo Record parts.
     
  3. >Why would you buy that fancy crappy stuff second hand from those showing
    >off people? You said it was crap. Ooo...I get it, you can get that fancy
    >crap stuff for much less money. So you wanted that stuff in the first
    >place, but you could not effort it. I have no problem with that, but
    >please do not criticize the people who can effort it. Did they ask you

    ..for money? Do they look down on you because you ride a much cheaper
    bike?

    >Lou


    yeah well, uh do any of you so called "chic-chic" people win any races
    or has it been proven that having a King headset or $1000 Ksyriums or a
    $5000 Colnago Carbon will make you a better rider and win more races? I
    see that alot here(advocates for pricey equipent vs reasonable priced
    stuff) so I'm more or less on the side of the newbies and giving my
    opinion to them not to be suckered in by the undercover chic chic
    manufactuers sales reps. on here... but hey if some wannabe is selling
    his chic chic stuff for really cheap because he spends more time at
    work making $$$ than to enjoy his toys, yeah i'll come in and scoop it
    up......like I said gotta love free market economy
     
  4. Ron Ruff

    Ron Ruff Guest

    Doug Taylor wrote:
    > No, Ron, it isn't. I'm talking about empirical reality, not theory.
    > The ONLY way to confirm the actual weight of YOUR bike is to weight on
    > YOUR scale and verify it with YOUR eyes.


    My bike weighs 19 lbs. The frame and fork on the MB are about .7 lbs
    lighter, the wheels, tires, tubes, and skewers, are 1.8 lbs lighter,
    the cranks are .3 lbs lighter, the bars and stem are .2 lbs lighter,
    the seat is .1 lbs lighter, etc. It just isn't that mysterious.

    > I do NOT believe
    > advertisements, I do NOT believe published weights, I do NOT believe
    > hearsay testimonials, I take weight weenies with a grain of salt.


    I don't believe advertised weights either, because it is simply so easy
    to lie about them... few manufacturers can resist the temptation.
    Generally, Shimano and Campy tell the truth, but others (like FSA for
    instance) exaggerate wildly. If you think weightweenies is dubious, you
    should visit the forum sometime... they are all fanatics with digital
    scales.

    > 1) to achieve the magic UCI 15 lb minimum, you MUST by definition pay
    > at least $5k for frame, wheels, and parts;
    >
    > 2) For up to16.5 lb, you are still talking carbon and Record or
    > Dura-Ace, and are paying over $3k. That's my opinion and experience
    > and I'm sticking to it.
    >
    > 3) 17 lb is achievable for $3k, but you must buy parts on e-bay and
    > you can't pay retail for anything. This is my current build starting
    > with a IRD Scandium Elite frame/fork/post/stem combo @ approx $800,
    > and Dura Ace, IRD, AC etc. everything else.


    I (and others) might believe what you say if you can demonstrate that
    it is true. You haven't provided any basis or details (evidence?) for
    your assertions.
     
  5. Lou Holtman

    Lou Holtman Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    >>Why would you buy that fancy crappy stuff second hand from those showing
    >>off people? You said it was crap. Ooo...I get it, you can get that fancy
    >>crap stuff for much less money. So you wanted that stuff in the first
    >>place, but you could not effort it. I have no problem with that, but
    >>please do not criticize the people who can effort it. Did they ask you

    >
    > .for money? Do they look down on you because you ride a much cheaper
    > bike?
    >
    >
    >>Lou

    >
    >
    > yeah well, uh do any of you so called "chic-chic" people win any races
    > or has it been proven that having a King headset or $1000 Ksyriums or a
    > $5000 Colnago Carbon will make you a better rider and win more races?


    Why oh, why do you have to win (more) races when you buy such a bike.
    Why can just owning and riding such a nice bike be enough? No 'fancy'
    bike can make you a better rider. We all know that, but just people who
    don't own a bike like that keep on wining about it. Geez..
    When a see someone with a Colnage C50 with Campy Record I think 'very
    nice bike man' and not 'he buddy that chic, chic bike doesn't make you
    win more races'. Makes life much more pleasant. Try it. You enjoy your
    'reasonable'priced bike; let other people enjoy their bike. No problem.


    > I see that alot here(advocates for pricey equipent vs reasonable priced
    > stuff) so I'm more or less on the side of the newbies and giving my
    > opinion to them not to be suckered in by the undercover chic chic
    > manufactuers sales reps. on here... but hey if some wannabe is selling
    > his chic chic stuff for really cheap because he spends more time at
    > work making $$$ than to enjoy his toys, yeah i'll come in and scoop it
    > up......like I said gotta love free market economy


    Like I always say when money is not an issue (almost) everyone would buy
    a fancy bike and that makes your 'lecture' a little hypocr... eh...funny.

    Lou

    --
    Posted by news://news.nb.nu
     
  6. >Why oh, why do you have to win (more) races when you buy such a bike.
    >Why can just owning and riding such a nice bike be enough? No 'fancy'
    >bike can make you a better rider. We all know that, but just people who
    >don't own a bike like that keep on wining about it. Geez..
    >When a see someone with a Colnage C50 with Campy Record I think 'very
    >nice bike man' and not 'he buddy that chic, chic bike doesn't make you
    >win more races'. Makes life much more pleasant. Try it. You enjoy your
    >'reasonable'priced bike; let other people enjoy their bike. No problem.


    as you asked, why do you have to win(more) races when you buy such a
    nice bike?...go ask the wannabe's that since a lot of them say they
    need to get the latest and best stuff to make them more competitive
    unless I'm the only one who sees a lot of people say that here, and I
    laugh at them because I don't see anyone's name here on the TDF
    winner's list or any other noteworthy race winner's list....am I saying
    i want to buy that stuff to win races? mmmmmmmm no....and I don't go
    around looking at anyone else's bike and ridiculing chic chic bikes,
    did i say I'm going around doing that? LOL I tend to look at the road
    ahead of me, not looking at a guy decked out in TDF uniform riding a
    chic chic bike....maybe you, but not me ;-)

    >Like I always say when money is not an issue (almost) everyone would buy
    >a fancy bike and that makes your 'lecture' a little hypocr... eh...funny.


    again see above....I don't know why you got your panties in a bunch
    when I was giving my opinion to newbies about playing into the hands
    of marketing gimmicks...my "lecture", as you put it, is for new riders
    to not follow the leader and not play "I gotta be like the Jones's" so
    if you interpret that as hypocr, then I guess your defintion of
    hypocrite is different from the rest of ours....eh funny.
     
  7. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    > A Muzi wrote:
    >> CHR drive train [4],
    >> 4- hard to sell 'junk' even if it is light. Quality drive train
    >> because we still have to _sell_ it.


    dvt wrote:
    > Sorry for the dumb question... what's a "CHR drive train?"



    CHR = Chorus

    and REC= Record, CEN= Centaur VEL = Veloce

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  8. Lou Holtman

    Lou Holtman Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    >>Why oh, why do you have to win (more) races when you buy such a bike.
    >>Why can just owning and riding such a nice bike be enough? No 'fancy'
    >>bike can make you a better rider. We all know that, but just people who
    >>don't own a bike like that keep on wining about it. Geez..
    >>When a see someone with a Colnage C50 with Campy Record I think 'very
    >>nice bike man' and not 'he buddy that chic, chic bike doesn't make you
    >>win more races'. Makes life much more pleasant. Try it. You enjoy your
    >>'reasonable'priced bike; let other people enjoy their bike. No problem.

    >
    >
    > as you asked, why do you have to win(more) races when you buy such a
    > nice bike?...go ask the wannabe's that since a lot of them say they
    > need to get the latest and best stuff to make them more competitive
    > unless I'm the only one who sees a lot of people say that here, and I
    > laugh at them because I don't see anyone's name here on the TDF
    > winner's list or any other noteworthy race winner's list....am I saying
    > i want to buy that stuff to win races? mmmmmmmm no....and I don't go
    > around looking at anyone else's bike and ridiculing chic chic bikes,
    > did i say I'm going around doing that? LOL I tend to look at the road
    > ahead of me, not looking at a guy decked out in TDF uniform riding a
    > chic chic bike....maybe you, but not me ;-)


    When you referring to newbies who are saying they NEED an expensive bike
    to be competitive I agree. You can just laugh about that. But there
    are a lot of people who enjoy earning, owning, building and riding a
    nice bike. There is nothing wrong with that in my opinion. No I don't
    have to look at another guys bike, I just look at my own bike(s) and I
    am completely satisfied ;-)

    >
    >
    >>Like I always say when money is not an issue (almost) everyone would buy
    >>a fancy bike and that makes your 'lecture' a little hypocr... eh...funny.

    >
    >
    > again see above....I don't know why you got your panties in a bunch
    > when I was giving my opinion to newbies about playing into the hands
    > of marketing gimmicks...my "lecture", as you put it, is for new riders
    > to not follow the leader and not play "I gotta be like the Jones's" so
    > if you interpret that as hypocr, then I guess your defintion of
    > hypocrite is different from the rest of ours....eh funny.


    'Funny' is first saying that those shiny chic chic bikes are unreliable
    marketing crap and then buy one second hand just because the price
    dropped. Maybe I misinterpreted your posting. In that case my opinion
    doesn't apply to you. Sorry about that.

    Lou

    --
    Posted by news://news.nb.nu
     
  9. Doug Taylor

    Doug Taylor Guest

    On 24 Mar 2006 14:03:21 -0800, "Ron Ruff" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >I (and others) might believe what you say if you can demonstrate that
    >it is true. You haven't provided any basis or details (evidence?) for
    >your assertions.


    It's really pointless to argue but simple to verify empirically. For
    a mere $17, you can buy a digital fish scale, hang your bike on it and
    read the printout.

    I urge all dedicated weight weenies to do so, and post their results.

    http://www.srmo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=srmo&Product_Code=B401537

    On the Berkley scale:

    My new $3000 road bike, scandium carbon frame, Dura Ace, FSA, AC
    Sprint 350's, weighs 17.0 lbs.

    My old road bike, Litespeed Tuscany titanium frame, Ultegra/Dura Ace
    mix, Look carbon fork, Bontrager Race X-lite wheels, weighs 17 lbs 13
    oz.

    My Santa Cruz Superlite, SRAM components, King hubs, Mavic rims,
    weighs 26 lbs 4 oz.

    My Ted Wojcik off road singlespeed weighs 20 lbs. 6 oz.

    If the marketing and advertised weights were true, they would all
    weigh at least a pound less.
     
  10. Lou Holtman

    Lou Holtman Guest

    Doug Taylor wrote:
    > On 24 Mar 2006 14:03:21 -0800, "Ron Ruff" <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I (and others) might believe what you say if you can demonstrate that
    >>it is true. You haven't provided any basis or details (evidence?) for
    >>your assertions.

    >
    >
    > It's really pointless to argue but simple to verify empirically. For
    > a mere $17, you can buy a digital fish scale, hang your bike on it and
    > read the printout.
    >



    I did that with every component of my bike I build. I found out that the
    weight of all Campy components listed on their website were very
    accurate; within a few grams. Also the figures of the Ritchey components
    were pretty accurate. The stem was a little lighter; the handlebar a
    little heavier. Tires and saddles are always heavier then listed. When I
    hung my whole bike on a (different) scale as a final check I got almost
    exactly what I paid for: a 15 pound bike. Even a little less ;-)

    Lou
    --
    Posted by news://news.nb.nu
     
  11. Ron Ruff

    Ron Ruff Guest

    Doug Taylor wrote:

    > My new $3000 road bike, scandium carbon frame, Dura Ace, FSA, AC
    > Sprint 350's, weighs 17.0 lbs.
    >
    > My old road bike, Litespeed Tuscany titanium frame, Ultegra/Dura Ace
    > mix, Look carbon fork, Bontrager Race X-lite wheels, weighs 17 lbs 13
    > oz.


    If you provided a detailed list of your components, then maybe we could
    make some sense of it. Also, have you calibrated your scale? Did you
    weigh the frame or any parts seperately?

    My bike is similar to your Litespeed, only with heavier wheels. It
    weighs 19lbs, which is what I'd expect... and I'd expect the MB to
    weigh 3 lbs less.

    > If the marketing and advertised weights were true, they would all
    > weigh at least a pound less.


    Funny, that's the amount that Bikes Direct was under-reporting the
    weight of the MB... 15.1 lbs vs 16 that I calculated.
     
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