Biker Killed by Mountain Lion

[Arne]

I live in central Connecticut where the state's biggest
mental institution is located, CVH (CT Valley Hospital).
Middletown, CT, where it is located, has become the dumping
ground for patients that have been moved out. One stabbed
and killed a young girl a few years back at a street bazaar.
It has led to an increase in drug and alcohol problems in
the area.... I don't have any answers, but I can recognize a
problem when I see it.

Arne

=====================
"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> The problem of the homeless could be solved in a trice
> with the correct policing policy (strict enforcement of
> anti-vagrancy laws) and the correct institutionalization
> policy (hospitals and jails). I would not be adverse to
> institutionalizing 10% of the population of this country
> if that is what it takes to clean up the current mess.

 

[Curtis L . Russ]

On 9 Mar 2004 16:56:20 -0800, [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote:

> I am sure that liberals were all for closing the mental
> hospitals and getting the mentally ill incorporated into
> the community. There was suppose to be of course all kinds
> of follow up and monitoring which I don't believe ever
> happened.

There is a significant trend away from large institutions,
especially those run by the government, towards small group
homes, for both mentally handicapped and mentally
disfunctional. Some small group homes work well, some end up
with sub-par employees, including those that speak little
English and thus have an even greater barrier to
communication with the patients.

The humorous end game, if you want to call it that, is that
the final occupants of some of the state-run facilities that
are supposed to go away are mounting campaigns to prevent
final closure of the large facilities. The difference
between being in a place with state paid employees (more or
less $ 20/hour) and small home employees (rates $ 8
- $ 14) and the level of care have put the final (and most
difficult to place) clients in a favored position.

One of the forces that put people on the street is not
economic at all. In Maryland and in many other states, the
client and family have incredible ability to block location
of clients to any facility. For some families, it is cheaper
to keep the client at 'home', even if they are often unaware
of where that person has been for the last month or so (to
be fair, some of the best care is, of course, family members
working off the SSA/SSI benefits to cover most costs - this
is much less than the total cost incurred in almost any
facility). And some scum take the SSA/SSI and spend no money
or time on their dependent individual.

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on
two wheels...

 

[Dave Larrington]

Dunno what it's like in the US, but a disproporionate number
of homeless people in the UK are ex-Services...

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

 

[Evsolutions]

Morning

I do not follow homelessness in America, but in Toronto we
have so many services to assist the homeless that there
exists an incentive for them to remain homeless. Charities
are fighting amoungst themselves to corner the expanding
homeless market. One agency provides 2 catered meals a day
from vans, another operates a mobile laundy service, free
eye exams in a van & gives free eye glasses, free dental
clinics, free prescription drugs, free sleeping bags (dry
cleaned weekly), mobile hairdressing vans, free clothes, a
van doing a free hypodermic needle program and free condoms,
we have a van doing mobile massages. We even have a Van that
delivers wine, beer and cigarettes to the homeless.
Homelessness is an expanding and lucrative market to break
into. Once a reporter asked a group of highschool students
what their ideal career was and several said they wanted to
be homeless. We even have classes taught in the "art of
street begging" with promised $25K tax free incomes...more
if you hack off a limb.

When I was a kid I only ever saw one fellow who wore his US-
Army medals and ribbons on his jacket, he was blind and had
a hook for a hand via WW11 & he sat outside a 5 & Dime store
offering HB Pencils in trade for spare change. Everyone took
a pencil and dropped their change in a tin can and carefully
put the pencil back in the box so he would not know they
returned the pencil and his dignity was maintained.He was
always saying "bless you" and was not a wino. My Dad said
the guy knew what was going on as he always had the same
number of pencils he began with. In the early 60's I stopped
seeing him and my Dad said some punks beat him up and took
his money and pencils and he responded by blowing his brains
out. I started seeing bumper stickers of "America-Love it or
Leave it"...kinda got me thinking.

Joshua
*****
"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Zippy the Pinhead <[email protected]> wrote
> in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> [...]
>
> > I worked for a time as a temp in the Sillycon Valley
> > area. I would occasionally walk to work early in the
> > morning. I struck up sort of an acquaintance with a guy
> > at a construction site who would wave each morning as I
> > went by. One day I stopped to talk with him and asked
> > him jokingly why he was on the job so early, long before
> > the rest of the crew. He told me his first task was to
> > shag the passed-out winos out from the vicinity of
> > dangerous machinery before it got started up when the
> > work started for the day. He had to do that because his
> > company got sued by a "homeless person" who slept in
> > harm's way and got hurt pretty bad.
> >
> > We've come a long way. When I was a kid we had bums and
> > hobos, now we have "homeless persons".
>
> I think one of the main differences between then and now
> is that when we were kids the bums and hobos were mostly
> alcoholics. Minneapolis had one of the largest skid rows
> in the entire country back in the 1940's. They were mostly
> all alcoholics.
>
> Now I think many if not most of the homeless are mental
> cases. They are clearly nonfunctional. The more we try to
> help them the worse it seems to get. I fear that we are
> actually enabling this kind of behavior by our social
> policies. San Francisco and Seattle are the two most
> liberal cities in the country and they also seem to have
> the worse homeless problem. The homeless ruin these cities
> and make them very unpleasant places to visit. God only
> knows what it must be like to live in them.
>
> The problem of the homeless could be solved in a trice
> with the correct policing policy (strict enforcement of
> anti-vagrancy laws) and the correct institutionalization
> policy (hospitals and jails). I would not be adverse to
> institutionalizing 10% of the population of this country
> if that is what it takes to clean up the current mess. If
> you can't function in society, you are not entitled to any
> freedom. Our forefathers had all this figured out but we
> get dumber and dumber with every passing generation.
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Geob]

> GeoB, I think what happened is that drug treatment began
> to be seen as the solution to the problem of the
> mentally ill.

Obfustication. Smoke screen. The situation was exactly as I
described it. Sure, drugs may play a greater or lessor role
in treatment, but this wasn't about treatment, it was saving
money. He made no bones about it. Look up the statements he
made at that time.

> The state mental hospitals were regarded almost
> universally as horrors not worthy of a civilized nation.

Man, you are all over the place! California's state
hospitals were some of the best in the world. They weren't a
horror-story, but I grant you horror stories exist about
other hospitals. Our hospitals were expensive, thus targeted
by the 'Haves'.

> I am sure that liberals were all for closing the mental
> hospitals and getting the mentally ill incorporated into
> the community.

Ed, why don't I ever learn? This is why I quit talking to
you previously. I guess I'm the fool here, to keep trying.
You just don't let facts get in your way. Ed, I was *here*,
where were you?

 

[Tom Sherman]

GeoB wrote:

> ... Ed, why don't I ever learn? This is why I quit talking
> to you previously. I guess I'm the fool here, to keep
> trying. You just don't let facts get in your way. Ed, I
> was *here*, where were you?

Mr. Dolan at times is like the child who acts up to get
attention.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

 

[Tom Sherman]

Dave Larrington wrote:

> Dunno what it's like in the US, but a disproporionate
> number of homeless people in the UK are ex-Services...

A disproportionate number of homeless in the US are Vietnam
War veterans who suffer from post traumatic stress disorder
and/or narcotic addiction. As W. T. Sherman (no relation)
said, “War is Hell.”

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

 

[Edward Dolan]

[email protected] (GeoB) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> > GeoB, I think what happened is that drug treatment began
> > to be seen as the solution to the problem of the
> > mentally ill.
>
> Obfuscation. Smoke screen. The situation was exactly as I
> described it. Sure, drugs may play a greater or lessor
> role in treatment, but this wasn't about treatment, it was
> saving money. He made no bones about it. Look up the
> statements he made at that time.

No, it was all about treatment. The state mental hospitals
weren't doing much of anything for mental patients except
warehousing them. Other psychiatric treatments were a
miserable failure. Even psychoanalysis was a fraud. When
prescription drugs were developed they were seen as the
salvation to the problem of the mentally ill. And they
worked wonderfully too, The only trick is to keep the
mentally ill on their treatment drugs. Hence, the necessity
for constant monitoring.

> > The state mental hospitals were regarded almost
> > universally as horrors not worthy of a civilized nation.
>
> Man, you are all over the place! California's state
> hospitals were some of the best in the world. They weren't
> a horror-story, but I grant you horror stories exist about
> other hospitals. Our hospitals were expensive, thus
> targeted by the 'Haves'.

Have you never seen the movie "The Snake Pit"? I seriously
doubt that the California state hospitals were any better
than those anywhere else. Was Alcatraz better than Joliet?
State prisons and state hospitals are what this society used
to do with those who were not functional either due to
mental illness or criminality. We warehoused them for
heaven's sake.

> > I am sure that liberals were all for closing the mental
> > hospitals and getting the mentally ill incorporated into
> > the community.
>
> Ed, why don't I ever learn? This is why I quit talking to
> you previously. I guess I'm the fool here, to keep trying.
> You just don't let facts get in your way. Ed, I was
> *here*, where were you?

I know liberals like I know the back of my own hand because
I was one for most of my life. You liberals always think
spending more money on something is the only possible way to
improve something (even though the condition of our public
schools prove you wrong every day of the week). But hang in
there. There will always be a market for wrongheaded
"solutions" as long as they ameliorate one's conscience
without ever really solving anything (mostly your typical
liberal solution just makes the problem worse or creates yet
other social problems).

When I write to this newsgroup, I am focused on the message
irrespective of who my have authored it and I am always
speaking to the entire newsgroup, not to any one individual.
At least that is always my intention but I occasionally do
depart from that in order to excoriate someone who is
particularly deserving . However, I think I do take the high
ground about 95% of the time. You need to go and do
likewise. No one here cares what you might think of me or of
any past history. Try to stick to the subject.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> GeoB wrote:
>
> > ... Ed, why don't I ever learn? This is why I quit
> > talking to you previously. I guess I'm the fool here, to
> > keep trying. You just don't let facts get in your way.
> > Ed, I was *here*, where were you?
>
> Mr. Dolan at times is like the child who acts up to get
> attention.
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

It is true that I like to say things in a way that will
engage the interest of the reader. One thing is for sure.
Don't ever accuse me of being politically correct about
anything. I like to think independent thoughts and the
chips can fall where they may. The very worst thing about
liberals is the bother about always being politically
correct. I am not accusing you of this although you do come
close to it at times.

By the way, always remember that it takes two to tango. If
I am ever being childish (which I am not), then so is GeoB
and you. We all of us have different personalities which we
can enjoy and thank God we will never have to meet one
another in person. It is the best of all possible worlds if
you ask me.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> GeoB wrote:
>
> > ... Ed, why don't I ever learn? This is why I quit
> > talking to you previously. I guess I'm the fool here, to
> > keep trying. You just don't let facts get in your way.
> > Ed, I was *here*, where were you?
>
> Mr. Dolan at times is like the child who acts up to get
> attention.
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

It is true that I like to say things in a way that will
engage the interest of the reader. One thing is for sure.
Don't ever accuse me of being politically correct about
anything. I like to think independent thoughts and the
chips can fall where they may. The very worst thing about
liberals is the bother about always being politically
correct. I am not accusing you of this although you do come
close to it at times.

By the way, always remember that it takes two to tango. If
I am ever being childish (which I am not), then so is GeoB
and you. We all of us have different personalities which we
can enjoy and thank God we will never have to meet one
another in person. It is the best of all possible worlds if
you ask me.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Dave Larrington wrote:
>
> > Dunno what it's like in the US, but a disproporionate
> > number of homeless people in the UK are ex-Services...
>
> A disproportionate number of homeless in the US are
> Vietnam War veterans who suffer from post traumatic stress
> disorder and/or narcotic addiction. As W. T. Sherman (no
> relation) said, ?War is Hell.?
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

The VA Medical Centers of this country are at the ready to
help those veterans who may be having mental problems. They
have many special programs set up for just that purpose. I
suspect it is no different in the UK either.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Dave Larrington wrote:
>
> > Dunno what it's like in the US, but a disproporionate
> > number of homeless people in the UK are ex-Services...
>
> A disproportionate number of homeless in the US are
> Vietnam War veterans who suffer from post traumatic stress
> disorder and/or narcotic addiction. As W. T. Sherman (no
> relation) said, ?War is Hell.?
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

The VA Medical Centers of this country are at the ready to
help those veterans who may be having mental problems. They
have many special programs set up for just that purpose. I
suspect it is no different in the UK either.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

Curtis L. Russell <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> On 9 Mar 2004 16:56:20 -0800, [email protected] (Edward
> Dolan) wrote:
>
> > I am sure that liberals were all for closing the mental
> > hospitals and getting the mentally ill incorporated into
> > the community. There was suppose to be of course all
> > kinds of follow up and monitoring which I don't believe
> > ever happened.
>
> There is a significant trend away from large institutions,
> especially those run by the government, towards small
> group homes, for both mentally handicapped and mentally
> disfunctional. Some small group homes work well, some end
> up with sub-par employees, including those that speak
> little English and thus have an even greater barrier to
> communication with the patients.
[...]

That is the way it is done here in Minnesota too. You will
never see a homeless person living on the streets in any
small town. However, it seems like when you get to cities of
a certain size that the system either breaks down or there
are other variables at play. I am starting to think that
those who are homeless want to be homeless for reasons of
their own. Or maybe it is like Joshua says it is in Toronto,
that there is a volunteer industry set up to care for them.

Nevertheless, homelessness should not be permitted. We
humans require housing. We are not wild animals. To live on
the streets creates all kinds of problems for the rest of
society. It ought to be illegal not to have a place of
residence. Anyone who could not see to their own housing
should be institutionalized in public housing, hospitals or
jails and treated pretty much like a ward of the state.
That would be better than having them wander about on the
streets doing nothing but creating a nuisance for others.
The fact is that it is dangerous to have a lot of homeless
people in a society. Parts of downtown Seattle are starting
to look like Calcutta with all the homeless people just
hanging about. Hell, they are scaring the tourists away if
truth be told.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"EVSolutions" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Morning
>
> I do not follow homelessness in America, but in Toronto we
> have so many services to assist the homeless that there
> exists an incentive for them to remain homeless.
>
> Charities are fighting amoungst themselves to corner the
> expanding homeless market. One agency provides 2 catered
> meals a day from vans, another operates a mobile laundry
> service, free eye exams in a van & gives free eye
> glasses, free dental clinics, free prescription drugs,
> free sleeping bags (dry cleaned weekly), mobile
> hairdressing vans, free clothes, a van doing a free
> hypodermic needle program and free condoms, we have a van
> doing mobile massages. We even have a Van that delivers
> wine, beer and cigarettes to the homeless. Homelessness
> is an expanding and lucrative market to break into. Once
> a reporter asked a group of highschool students what
> their ideal career was and several said they wanted to be
> homeless. We even have classes taught in the "art of
> street begging" with promised $25K tax free
> incomes...more if you hack off a limb.
[...]

Thanks for the above hilarious paragraph Joshua. I haven't
had such a good laugh in a coon's age. However, if what you
say is true, then Canada is even more screwed up than is the
US. To enable behavior that everyone can agree is
detrimental to society is a true horror story. I believe
this is something that only the liberal mentality could
concoct. What a witch's brew you have described.

I especially like that part about the free hypodermic needle
exchange program and the free condoms. Just when you think
you have heard every foolishness that life has to offer,
there is yet more to hear. Now maybe some of you can
appreciate why some us are conservatives and abhor
liberalism unchecked as it apparently is in Toronto.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

Zippy the Pinhead <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On 11 Mar 2004 08:07:56 -0800, [email protected] (Edward
> Dolan) wrote:
>
> >> A disproportionate number of homeless in the US are
> >> Vietnam War veterans who suffer from post traumatic
> >> stress disorder and/or narcotic addiction.
>
> >The VA Medical Centers of this country are at the ready
> >to help those veterans who may be having mental problems.
>
> Yeah, but they have to actually BE veterans in order to
> avail themselves of VA problems.
>
> If all the homeless persons who claim to be Vietnam
> veterans had actually been in Vietnam, that nation would
> have been an overcrowded mess, and the VC and the NVA
> would have did the big di-di-mau up North without ever a
> shot having been fired.

Zippy, I know several Vietnam veterans and they are the most
solid and well adjusted persons you would ever want to meet.
Admittedly though, they were not combat infantry, but they
all did come under fire.

I have occasion to visit the VA Medical Center over in Sioux
Falls, SD and I like to talk to the Vietnam veterans that I
meet there. I cut them a lot of slack and if they need
treatment for any service connected disability I am all for
it. Most of us who are using the VA Medical Centers are just
older guys who have contracted various diseases having
nothing to do with our time in the service. Many of the
stories I hear from the Vietnam veterans who have been in
combat and have been wounded are very sad. Any money spent
on them is money well spent indeed.

As a great and powerful nation we will always have more than
our share of wars and consequently more than our share of
veterans needing care and support after the war is
concluded. Dems and Repubs both to their credit have for the
most part been very supportive of the VA and its mission as
have the American people. I would not want it any other way.

Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> ... I especially like that part about the free hypodermic
> needle exchange program and the free condoms. Just when
> you think you have heard every foolishness that life has
> to offer, there is yet more to hear....

Prohibiting needle exchange programs does not reduce
intravenous drug

education and birth control availability only increases the
number of unwanted pregnancies and the spread of STD's.

Mr. Dolan was born at least 50 years too late. He is not
conservative, but reactionary.

And since Mr. Dolan advocates at least the moderate use of a
certain mood altering drug (and acknowledges his own use of
that drug), he should not be so quick to condemn the use of
other mood altering drugs.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

 

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> That is the way it is done here in Minnesota too. You will
> never see a homeless person living on the streets in any
> small town....

The police likely would pick them up and drop them off in
the nearest city large enough to support a homeless shelter.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

 

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> ... As a great and powerful nation we will always have
> more than our share of wars and consequently more than our
> share of veterans needing care and support after the war
> is concluded. Dems and Repubs both to their credit have
> for the most part been very supportive of the VA and its
> mission as have the American people....

But the Cheney/Bush administration proposed cutting
veterans benefits.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

 

[Evsolutions]

Agreed and Thanks for writing it. I kept writing and
deleting and gave up.

My only regret was that Washington did not offer stress
and grief counselling to the parents, wives, girlfriends,
brothers & sisters of troops KIA or wounded for they lived
through their own emotional Hell not knowing if we'd come
home and then be told what happened to us with no one
there to help them, I do not know if the loved ones of the
troops fighting in Iraq 1 & 11 were treated any better but
I hope so.

Joshua
*****

>
> As a great and powerful nation we will always have more
> than our share of wars and consequently more than our
> share of veterans needing care and support after the war
> is concluded. Dems and Repubs both to their credit have
> for the most part been very supportive of the VA and its
> mission as have the American people. I would not want it
> any other way.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Freewheeling]

"I do not know if the loved ones of the troops fighting in
Iraq 1 & 11 were treated any better but I hope so"

Definitely. One of the consequences of having an all-
volunteer force. In fact, the only data that exists that
links school achievement of children with both the IQ of
parents and in-home child-rearing practices is a database
maintained by the military. They keep track of every aspect
of those folks' experience, from cradle to grave.

--
--Scott
"EVSolutions" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Agreed and Thanks for writing it. I kept writing and deleting and gave up.
>
> My only regret was that Washington did not offer stress and grief
> counselling to the parents, wives, girlfriends, brothers & sisters of
troops
> KIA or wounded for they lived through their own emotional Hell not knowing
> if we'd come home and then be told what happened to us with no one there
to
> help them, I do not know if the loved ones of the troops fighting in Iraq
1
> & 11 were treated any better but I hope so.
>
> Joshua
> *****
>
> >
> > As a great and powerful nation we will always have more than our share
> > of wars and consequently more than our share of veterans needing care
> > and support after the war is concluded. Dems and Repubs both to their
> > credit have for the most part been very supportive of the VA and its
> > mission as have the American people. I would not want it any other
> > way.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota