bikes and crosswalks

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Viktor Mikhailo, Apr 23, 2003.

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  1. Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in crosswalks?

    As a pedestrian, I have NEVER ONCE had a bike stop for me when crossing a crosswalk, ever. Nor have
    I EVER ONCE seen a bike stop for any pedestrian, ever. If a bicyclist anywhere in the world has ever
    once stopped for a pedestrian in a crosswalk, it has not been my good fortune to see it. Even when
    the cars are stopped, the bikes ALWAYS try to whiz through. Always.

    Normally I don't generalize or stereotype, but in this case, my own personal experience is that 100%
    of the cyclists ignore crosswalks. Not 50%, not 90%, but 100%. So this is not generalizing.

    I have zero sympathy for you political cyclists and your cause, seeing the way you yourselves treat
    the people one notch down the conveyance food chain. It wouldn't trouble me in the least to see you
    banned from the roadways and sidewalks and relegated to bike paths. Given a choice between hoofing
    it and dealing with you pricks, and driving my 10MPG beast 1 mile to the store, I'll drive every
    time. If you don't like my SUV, well, sorry, but that's just too damn bad. Vote for Gore or Nader
    again in 2004 if it makes you feel better. All of you lack the common decency to stop for
    pedestrians, but most of you have the common sense not to try to run red lights when two ton
    vehicles are present. So I'll drive from now on.
     
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  2. Rich Clark

    Rich Clark Guest

    "Viktor Mikhailovich Polesov" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in crosswalks?
    >
    > As a pedestrian, I have NEVER ONCE had a bike stop for me when crossing a crosswalk, ever. Nor
    > have I EVER ONCE seen a bike stop for any pedestrian, ever. If a bicyclist anywhere in the world
    > has ever once stopped for a pedestrian in a crosswalk, it has not been my good fortune to see it.
    > Even when the cars are stopped, the bikes ALWAYS try to whiz through. Always.

    I think you're correct, in general. Keep in mind that there are a lot of places where the only
    crosswalks are at controlled intersections, so stopping for the stop sign/stop light automatically
    includes stopping for crossing pedestrians.
    >
    > Normally I don't generalize or stereotype, but in this case, my own personal experience is that
    > 100% of the cyclists ignore crosswalks. Not 50%, not 90%, but 100%. So this is not generalizing.

    No, you're probably right.
    >
    > I have zero sympathy for you political cyclists and your cause, seeing the way you yourselves
    > treat the people one notch down the conveyance food chain.

    And now you take a mighty leap from reason to rant. It's your right, of course, but recognize that
    everything you say from here on out reads as a fairly inept attempt to justify irrational behaviour
    and intolerance.

    > It wouldn't trouble me in the least to see you banned from the roadways and sidewalks and
    > relegated to bike paths. Given a choice between hoofing it and dealing with you pricks, and
    > driving my 10MPG beast 1 mile to the store, I'll drive every time. If you don't like my SUV,
    > well, sorry, but that's just too damn bad. Vote for Gore or Nader again in 2004 if it makes you
    > feel better. All of you lack the common decency to stop for pedestrians, but most of you have the
    > common sense not to try to run red lights when two ton vehicles are present. So I'll drive from
    > now on.

    It bothers you enough to post this. It bothers you enough, apparently, to make you change your
    behavior. Does it bother you enough to try to help solve the problem?

    Virtually nobody in the US is educated about the rights and responsibilities of cyclists. The rules
    exist -- they're written into every state's vehicle code -- but nobody knows what they are. Driver's
    licenses are granted with no effort to inform new drivers about how to interact with non-motor
    vehicles. Drivers get married, have children, and don't know how to teach those children to behave
    on the road. Drivers become teachers and politicians and city planners without ever having learned
    anything about the laws regarding cycling, and so entire generations of children grow up without
    ever having learned anything.

    It's your society, Viktor. If choosing to wrap yourself in a steel cage and ignore the causes of the
    things that annoy you is your answer, then it'll be the society you deserve.

    RichC
     
  3. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    >
    >
    >Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in crosswalks?

    Why is it that when I have a green light pedestrians ignore me and keep walking across the street
    thinkgin I will stop for them?
    -----------------
    Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)
     
  4. Ron Hardin

    Ron Hardin Guest

    Viktor Mikhailovich Polesov wrote:
    >
    > Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in crosswalks?
    >
    > As a pedestrian, I have NEVER ONCE had a bike stop for me when crossing a crosswalk, ever. Nor
    > have I EVER ONCE seen a bike stop for any pedestrian, ever. If a bicyclist anywhere in the world
    > has ever once stopped for a pedestrian in a crosswalk, it has not been my good fortune to see it.
    > Even when the cars are stopped, the bikes ALWAYS try to whiz through. Always.

    I always zip right by. It's no problem avoiding a pedestrian.
    --
    Ron Hardin [email protected]

    On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
     
  5. Ben Pfaff

    Ben Pfaff Guest

    "Rich Clark" <[email protected]> writes:

    > "Viktor Mikhailovich Polesov" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Normally I don't generalize or stereotype, but in this case, my own personal experience is that
    > > 100% of the cyclists ignore crosswalks. Not 50%, not 90%, but 100%. So this is not generalizing.
    >
    > No, you're probably right.

    No, he's wrong. I stop for pedestrians in crosswalks when I'm on my bike. I think he's just a troll,
    in fact, and that we should ignore him.
     
  6. Fritz M

    Fritz M Guest

    "Rich Clark" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > And now you take a mighty leap from reason to rant. It's your right, of course, but recognize that
    > everything you say from here on out reads as a fairly inept attempt to justify irrational
    > behaviour and intolerance.

    Do you really believe the troll has stuck around to read your response?

    RFM
    --
    To reply, translate domain from l33+ 2p33|< to alpha. 4=a 0=o 3=e +=t
     
  7. Jon Isaacs

    Jon Isaacs Guest

    >Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in crosswalks?

    I stop for pedestrians, I stop for cars, trucks, motorcyclists, cats, dogs, children, rabbits,
    lizards, squirrels, snakes, birds and other cyclists.

    From reading your rant, my guess is that were you a cyclist, you would probably not stop for anyone
    or anything.

    But I do.

    Jon Isaacs

    Jon
     
  8. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

  9. Rich Clark

    Rich Clark Guest

    "Ben Pfaff" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Rich Clark" <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    > > "Viktor Mikhailovich Polesov" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Normally I don't generalize or stereotype, but in this case, my own personal experience is
    > > > that 100% of the cyclists ignore crosswalks. Not 50%, not 90%, but 100%. So this is not
    > > > generalizing.
    > >
    > > No, you're probably right.
    >
    > No, he's wrong. I stop for pedestrians in crosswalks when I'm on my bike. I think he's just a
    > troll, in fact, and that we should ignore him.

    In real life, in cities (which is where most bikes are), the vast majority of people on bikes rarely
    stop for any reason unless they absolutely have to. I'm sorry, but it's just the truth. I don't
    defend it, condone it, support it, or behave that way myself. But it's just the reality. There will
    always be exceptions, and perhaps you're one of them, but you (and I) are statistically
    insignificant.

    Sure, he's a troll. I responded because the issue is real even if the poster's motives are suspect.

    RichC
     
  10. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Viktor
    Mikhailovich Polesov) writes:

    > If you don't like my SUV, well, sorry, but that's just too damn bad.

    Is that what this is all about? Rationalizing guilty feelings about your vehicle by lashing out at
    the [oft presumed] "moral superiority" of cyclists? If so, you have my sympathy. Maybe you'd feel
    better if you get yourself a bike, and ride around a bit. You could even set a good example for
    those cyclists who don't stop for pedestrians. At least it would be a more proactive and productive
    approach than ranting about it on UseNet.

    cheers, & have a pleasant day, Tom

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
    [point] bc [point] ca
     
  11. trolling trolling trolling... rawhiiiiiide!

    -Luigi
     
  12. Slider2699

    Slider2699 Guest

    "Viktor Mikhailovich Polesov" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in crosswalks?
    >
    (SNIP)

    I give you a three on the Troll-O-Meter....
     
  13. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:44:36 GMT, <[email protected]>, "Matt O'Toole"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Viktor Mikhailovich Polesov" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >
    >> Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in
    >crosswalks?
    >
    >I do.
    >
    >Matt O.
    >

    I once received a blue ribbon from a pedestrian I'd stopped for.

    Usually I have to explain to them that I'm a vehicle and they're pedestrians so they'd best move
    their stupid lookin' self off the damn curb and cross the stinking street already because I'm not
    gonna hold this track stand all day while they stand there picking their damn nose.
    --
    zk
     
  14. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "Alex Rodriguez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > >
    > >
    > >Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in crosswalks?
    >
    > Why is it that when I have a green light pedestrians ignore me and keep walking across the street
    > thinkgin I will stop for them?
    >
    You don't know about the magic spell that protects you from the 2+ tons of steel and AL aiming at
    you when you're walking across the crosswalk?

    Unfortunately, in CA it exists. The law says that pedestrians have the right of way in the
    crosswalk. You hit them, you pay through the nose (not to mention being sued...). I asked one of my
    former roommates the same question, that was the answer. IIRC, it was right after someone stepped
    off the curb in front of my F150 without looking to see if anyone was even coming. Talk about
    stupid! As far as I'm concerned, even though you have the right of way, if you're doing something
    completely stupid isn't going to protect you from harm.

    To answer the OP's question at the beginning of the rant: I don't usually stop for pedestrians in
    the crosswalks unless they're somewhere near where I'm riding. If you're on the other side of the
    crosswalk, I'm going through. If you're not going to be in the spot that I'm about to be riding
    through, then I'm usually not gonna stop. If you're in the spot that I'm about to be riding in, then
    I'll either a. adjust my trajectory to avoid you, or b. stop. Of the two options, I'd rather avoid
    than stop if I can.

    Pedestrians moseying across the crosswalk holding up traffic REALLY gets me upset. Its the arrogance
    that "you can't do anything to me 'cause I'm in the crosswalk" that gets me going. "I don't care how
    long you have to wait, I'm going to take my sweet time..." When I'm crossing on foot in a crosswalk,
    I'm going to hurry across so the least number of people are affected, but that's just me. When I
    can, I wait till there's a break in traffic before crossing instead of walking out into the lane,
    expecting people to stop.

    The same people that mosey across the crosswalk are the first ones to bitch and moan about someone
    else doing it to them. Go figure.

    Remind me to tell y'all about the idiot in the pickup on the 101 as the SDBC ride was leaving
    Encinitas.

    Mike
     
  15. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

  16. "Fritz M" <[email protected]+> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Rich Clark" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    > > And now you take a mighty leap from reason to rant. It's your right, of course, but recognize
    > > that everything you say from here on out reads as a fairly inept attempt to justify irrational
    > > behaviour and intolerance.
    >
    > Do you really believe the troll has stuck around to read your response?
    >

    Of course he will, he's dying to see how much energy he sucks into his diatribe.
     
  17. >I once received a blue ribbon from a pedestrian I'd stopped for.

    I'd like to see that ribbon. It isn't pedestrians in crosswalks that I have a problem with, since I
    obey signals. It's the damn jaywalkers.

    Exercising due care and diligence is the first duty of any vehicle operator.

    The law here says pedestrians have the ROW even when they don't.

    --

    _______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
    the Texas Elvis"------------------
    __________306.350.357.38>>[email protected]__________
     
  18. "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Alex Rodriguez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in crosswalks?
    > >
    > > Why is it that when I have a green light pedestrians ignore me and keep walking across the
    > > street thinkgin I will stop for them?
    > >
    > You don't know about the magic spell that protects you from the 2+ tons
    of
    > steel and AL aiming at you when you're walking across the crosswalk?
    >
    > Unfortunately, in CA it exists. The law says that pedestrians have the right of way in the
    > crosswalk. You hit them, you pay through the nose
    (not
    > to mention being sued...). I asked one of my former roommates the same question, that was the
    > answer. IIRC, it was right after someone stepped
    off
    > the curb in front of my F150 without looking to see if anyone was even coming. Talk about stupid!
    > As far as I'm concerned, even though you
    have
    > the right of way, if you're doing something completely stupid isn't going
    to
    > protect you from harm.

    Actually CA law has provisions in the crosswalk right of way that say something to the effect that
    you're not allowed to jump out in front of a car sooner than they're able to safely come to a stop.

    >
    > To answer the OP's question at the beginning of the rant: I don't usually stop for pedestrians in
    > the crosswalks unless they're somewhere near
    where
    > I'm riding. If you're on the other side of the crosswalk, I'm going through. If you're not going
    > to be in the spot that I'm about to be
    riding
    > through, then I'm usually not gonna stop. If you're in the spot that I'm about to be riding in,
    > then I'll either a. adjust my trajectory to avoid you, or b. stop. Of the two options, I'd rather
    > avoid than stop if I
    can.
    >
    > Pedestrians moseying across the crosswalk holding up traffic REALLY gets
    me
    > upset. Its the arrogance that "you can't do anything to me 'cause I'm in the crosswalk" that gets
    > me going. "I don't care how long you have to
    wait,
    > I'm going to take my sweet time..."

    What you're reading as arrogance may not be that. I have knee problems and cannot walk quickly
    without causing problems. Also one does not have to change their gait to please those afflicted with
    that modern day "get out of my way" problem.

    > When I'm crossing on foot in a crosswalk, I'm going to hurry across so the least number of people
    > are affected, but that's just me. When I can, I wait till there's a break in traffic before
    > crossing instead of walking out into the lane, expecting people to stop.

    I do the same and agree with you that the crosswalk right of way is much abused. However, most of
    the rants I see against cars, bicyclists and even pedestrians have less to do with the mode of
    travel than with the current culture of rampant narcissism.

    >
    > The same people that mosey across the crosswalk are the first ones to
    bitch
    > and moan about someone else doing it to them. Go figure.
    >
    > Remind me to tell y'all about the idiot in the pickup on the 101 as the
    SDBC
    > ride was leaving Encinitas.
     
  19. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "Jon Isaacs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >Unfortunately, in CA it exists. The law says that pedestrians have the right of way in the
    > >crosswalk.
    >
    > When I am riding and I stop for some pedestrians they often thank me. I
    tell
    > them I am a vehicle and I am required to give them the right of way.
    >
    > > Talk about stupid! As far as I'm concerned, even though you have the right of way, if you're
    > > doing something completely stupid isn't going
    to
    > >protect you from harm.
    >
    > This is certainly true. On the other hand, giving pedestrians the right of
    way
    > means that motorists and cyclists don't have a hunting license.
    >
    > I was looking over some statistics the other day and what was surprising
    was
    > the percentage of traffic deaths that are pedestians. Cars are lethal
    weapons
    > and thus require careful regulations.
    >
    > >Pedestrians moseying across the crosswalk holding up traffic REALLY gets
    me
    > upset. >Its the arrogance that "you can't do anything to me 'cause I'm
    in
    > >the crosswalk" that gets me going.
    >
    > You are presuming their leisurely pace is due to arrogance. There is no
    way to
    > know this. I imagine your upset is similar to that of a motorist who is
    "held
    > up" by a cyclist. I am sure that this same thought enters the mind of a motorist who is following
    > a cyclist.

    There are those that you can tell are lollygagging across the road just 'cause, then there are those
    that are truly unable to walk any faster.

    Unlike a pedestrian crossing a crosswalk, passing motorists can normally adjust their "line" and
    simply go around a bicyclist. From what I've been told about the laws of CA, you risk a large fine
    if you start across the crosswalk before a pedestrian is completely out of it.

    >
    > This morning I was watching a blind woman with a cane find her way down a sidewalk and the across
    > an intersection. Pretty amazing talent.
    >
    > There is room for us all out there.
     
  20. Bernie

    Bernie Guest

    Alex Rodriguez wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > >
    > >
    > >Why is it that bicyclists NEVER stop for pedestrians in crosswalks?
    >
    > Why is it that when I have a green light pedestrians ignore me and keep walking across the street
    > thinkgin I will stop for them?
    > -----------------
    > Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)
    >

    Probably because they know it is your legal duty to stop for them. You are in charge of that thing
    you drive. It is up to you to control it at all times and not run over things in front of you. Have
    a fine day! Bernie
     
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