Bikes beat skates in law enforcement

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Mark McNeill, Mar 29, 2006.

  1. Mark McNeill

    Mark McNeill Guest

    From The Register -

    http://tinyurl.com/ojkf6

    Rollerskating coppers defeated by turf
    Think 'Daleks and stairs'...


    A top-notch UK crimebusting initiative - which saw London's Royal Parks
    Constabulary issued with in-line rollerskates - has ground to a halt
    after crims realised they could escape simply by scarpering across
    grass, the Telegraph reports.

    <snip>

    Supt Derek Pollock, of London's Royal Parks operational command unit
    admitted: "It just didn't work. The moment people realised they were
    being chased they would switch to a soft surface.

    "If the criminal went on to the grass, the officer giving chase had to
    stop, take off his skates then follow him without proper footwear while
    carrying his skates."

    Pollock, whose officers have returned to their traditional perp-hunting
    bikes, further confessed: "Not an awful lot of officers were interested
    because it hurts when you fall over."

    --
    Mark, UK
    "'Michael Gilhaney,' said the Sergeant, 'is an example of a man that is
    nearly banjaxed from the principle of the Atomic Theory. Would it
    astonish you to hear that he is nearly half a bicycle?'"
     
    Tags:


  2. elyob

    elyob Guest

    "Mark McNeill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > A top-notch UK crimebusting initiative - which saw London's Royal Parks
    > Constabulary issued with in-line rollerskates - has ground to a halt
    > after crims realised they could escape simply by scarpering across
    > grass, the Telegraph reports.
    >

    So, there is no backup for skating cops? They are unable to skate around the
    area? They are expected to police Hyde or Richmond Park on skates? Not
    exactly where the crime is, is it?

    Nothing to do with the fact that our streets are too shite to skate on then?
    They could just skate around the park .. unless they are put in
    inappropriate places?

    I'd tend to agree that skates aren't particularly good at catching crooks,
    but neither are horses. I know a mounted copper who just loves his job ...
    "I don't get to meet all the ****s, the rest do".

    Skating in London is hard work. Cycling police and medics is a good thing as
    they can carry a fair amount of equipment. Skating is a whole different
    ball game. Try fixing the roads before expecting something like this to
    work.
     
  3. LSMike

    LSMike Guest

    Mark McNeill wrote:
    > From The Register -
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/ojkf6


    I never saw them once in 6 years of skating in Hyde Park.
     
  4. Simon Brooke

    Simon Brooke Guest

    in message <[email protected]>, elyob
    ('[email protected]') wrote:

    > Nothing to do with the fact that our streets are too shite to skate on
    > then? They could just skate around the park .. unless they are put in
    > inappropriate places?


    This takes us straight back to land rovers and green lanes. The streets
    of London are not engineered to a lower standard than the surfaced walks
    in the park. On the contrary, they're engineered to a much higher
    standard. But the walks are smooth enough to skate on and the streets
    are not. Why is this? Because damage to the road scales with the fourth
    power of axle weight.

    The park paths are in good condition because they have very few heavy
    vehicle movements. Consequently they don't get worn out.

    As a quick comparison of what this actually means, the axle weight of a
    bicycle is 60Kg (say, average). The axle weight of a landrover,
    1200Kg[1]. A fairly simple calculation shows that it takes 160,000
    bicycle journeys to do as much damage to the road/path/lane as one
    single landrover journey.

    Or put it differently, if green laners are pleading that they 'earn'
    their right to use the lanes by doing conservation work, then for each
    hour of conservation work the average mountain biker does, the green
    laner must do 50 thousand hours[2] or slightly over 5 years (continuous,
    without stopping to sleep or eat).

    [1] Maximum front axle weight of a Defender 110; the maximum rear axle
    weight is 1850Kg but it's unfair to assume that every vehicle is loaded
    to its maximum and in practice landrovers used for green laning have
    nothing but lardarses in the back.
    [2] Assuming on average three lardarses per land rover.

    --
    [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; L'etat c'est moi -- Louis XVI
    ;; I... we... the Government -- Tony Blair
     
  5. elyob

    elyob Guest

    "Simon Brooke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > in message <[email protected]>, elyob
    > ('[email protected]') wrote:
    >
    >> Nothing to do with the fact that our streets are too shite to skate on
    >> then? They could just skate around the park .. unless they are put in
    >> inappropriate places?

    >
    > This takes us straight back to land rovers and green lanes. The streets
    > of London are not engineered to a lower standard than the surfaced walks
    > in the park. On the contrary, they're engineered to a much higher
    > standard. But the walks are smooth enough to skate on and the streets
    > are not. Why is this? Because damage to the road scales with the fourth
    > power of axle weight.


    Wasn't anything to do with the point I was trying to make. Our streets are
    too shite to skate on compared to, say, France and a lot of Europe. Their
    roads are a lot smoother. The park reference was about skating "around the
    park " (i.e. grass) rather than taking their shoes off and then running
    after someone.

    Have no idea what your bone is about.
     
  6. Matt B

    Matt B Guest

    Simon Brooke wrote:
    >
    > This takes us straight back to land rovers and green lanes. The streets
    > of London are not engineered to a lower standard than the surfaced walks
    > in the park. On the contrary, they're engineered to a much higher
    > standard. But the walks are smooth enough to skate on and the streets
    > are not. Why is this? Because damage to the road scales with the fourth
    > power of axle weight.


    Isn't it influenced by footprint size, thus affecting the pressure
    applied? A slim woman does more damage to a wooden floor in stilettos
    that a fat bloke does in carpet slippers.

    > As a quick comparison of what this actually means, the axle weight of a
    > bicycle is 60Kg (say, average). The axle weight of a landrover,
    > 1200Kg[1].


    A bike footprint is what, about 15cm^2? A Landrover, about 300cm^2? If
    those guesses are anywhere near the actuality the pressure applied by a
    bike is 60kg/15cm^2 and by a Landrover 600kg/300cm^2 or 4kg/cm^2 for the
    bike and 2kg/cm^2 for the Landrover. I know which I'd rather have drive
    across my lawn ;-)

    --
    Matt B
     
  7. Mark McNeill <[email protected]> writes:

    > A top-notch UK crimebusting initiative - which saw London's Royal Parks
    > Constabulary issued with in-line rollerskates - has ground to a halt
    > after crims realised they could escape simply by scarpering across
    > grass, the Telegraph reports.


    I don't know which was the first of the current flurry of news outlets
    to report this, but I'm very surprised to hear that it's news.
    Indeed, the BBC report
    (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4854036.stm) also says "The
    Metropolitan Police and the Royal Parks Constabulary are expected to
    merge formally within weeks" which is, uh, curious as according to the
    Royal Parks site (http://www.royalparks.gov.uk/about/police.cfm), the
    Met took over Parks policing almost two years ago.

    Given that the officers were issued with skates that had removeable
    frames, I think the "grass" excuse is a little lame - it would have
    taken very little time for them to unclip and give chase on foot.
    Most of the police I see in the Parks these days are driving up and
    down the Serpentine Road, and I assume they would also be expected to
    stop and get out of the car if the pursued decided to take to the
    grass ...


    -dan

    --
    http://coruskate.blogspot.com/ # why skate when you can talk about it instead?
     
  8. Matt B wrote:
    >> This takes us straight back to land rovers and green lanes. The streets
    >> of London are not engineered to a lower standard than the surfaced walks
    >> in the park. On the contrary, they're engineered to a much higher
    >> standard. But the walks are smooth enough to skate on and the streets
    >> are not. Why is this? Because damage to the road scales with the fourth
    >> power of axle weight.

    >
    > Isn't it influenced by footprint size, thus affecting the pressure
    > applied?


    Do you have any evidence to suggest that it is, other than extrapolation
    from wooden floors? The '4th power' rule Simon referenced comes from a
    real world test:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AASHO_Road_Test

    The article admits: "Extrapolating the data to different situations has
    been 'problematic'", so if you know of a more suitable test, I'm sure
    we'd all be interested to hear of it.

    > A bike footprint is what, about 15cm^2? A Landrover, about 300cm^2? If
    > those guesses are anywhere near the actuality the pressure applied by a
    > bike is 60kg/15cm^2 and by a Landrover 600kg/300cm^2 or 4kg/cm^2 for the
    > bike and 2kg/cm^2 for the Landrover. I know which I'd rather have drive
    > across my lawn ;-)


    Your vague arm waving calculation is unnecessary, just look at the
    respective tyre pressures. A MTB will typically use around 30psi. I
    suspect this isn't massively different from that a Landrover would use.

    Anthony
     
  9. congokid

    congokid Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Daniel
    Barlow <[email protected]> writes

    >Most of the police I see in the Parks these days are driving up and
    >down the Serpentine Road, and I assume they would also be expected to
    >stop and get out of the car if the pursued decided to take to the
    >grass ...


    Alternatively they could crash spectacularly at high speed through the
    railings and fences separating the road from the grassy bits.

    --
    congokid
    Eating out in London? Read my tips...
    http://congokid.com
     
  10. Paulmouk

    Paulmouk Guest

    "Matt B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Simon Brooke wrote:
    >>
    >> This takes us straight back to land rovers and green lanes. The streets
    >> of London are not engineered to a lower standard than the surfaced walks
    >> in the park. On the contrary, they're engineered to a much higher
    >> standard. But the walks are smooth enough to skate on and the streets
    >> are not. Why is this? Because damage to the road scales with the fourth
    >> power of axle weight.

    >
    > Isn't it influenced by footprint size, thus affecting the pressure
    > applied? A slim woman does more

    ....
    ....

    > Matt B


    Road strength/thickness/material is based on the forecast no. of million
    standard lorry axles per year.
    Motorways , distributor roads, residential roads, park roads, pedestrian
    paths etc etc are not all designed and built to be the same strength.

    Paul.
     
  11. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    elyob wrote:
    >
    > So, there is no backup for skating cops? They are unable to skate around the
    > area? They are expected to police Hyde or Richmond Park on skates? Not
    > exactly where the crime is, is it?
    >


    But since they are the Royal Parks Constabulary they are restricted to
    Royal Parks policing. Outside the Parks the responsibility rests with
    the regular police.

    --
    Tony

    "The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
    right."
    - Lord Hailsham
     
  12. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Simon Brooke wrote:
    > in message <[email protected]>, elyob
    > ('[email protected]') wrote:
    >
    >> Nothing to do with the fact that our streets are too shite to skate
    >> on then? They could just skate around the park .. unless they are
    >> put in inappropriate places?

    >
    > This takes us straight back to land rovers and green lanes. The
    > streets of London are not engineered to a lower standard than the
    > surfaced walks in the park. On the contrary, they're engineered to a
    > much higher standard. But the walks are smooth enough to skate on and
    > the streets are not. Why is this? Because damage to the road scales
    > with the fourth power of axle weight.
    >
    > The park paths are in good condition because they have very few heavy
    > vehicle movements. Consequently they don't get worn out.


    The London streets are worse mainly because they're constantly dug up for
    gas, electric and communications cables and only repaired crudely
    afterwards. Some areas haven't been completely resurfaced for years.
    Sunken drain and manhole covers are also a serious problem.

    Smoothness of tarmac varies as well. The best tarmac in the parks is
    smoother than a lot of new road surfaces (partly explaining why it's so
    pleasant to cycle or skate on them). I suppose not so much grip is
    required in the parks.

    ~PB
     
  13. Simon Brooke

    Simon Brooke Guest

    in message <[email protected]>, Paulmouk ('paulmo
    Rusty Car [email protected]') wrote:

    >
    > "Matt B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> Simon Brooke wrote:
    >>>
    >>> This takes us straight back to land rovers and green lanes. The
    >>> streets of London are not engineered to a lower standard than the
    >>> surfaced walks in the park. On the contrary, they're engineered to a
    >>> much higher standard. But the walks are smooth enough to skate on and
    >>> the streets are not. Why is this? Because damage to the road scales
    >>> with the fourth power of axle weight.

    >>
    >> Isn't it influenced by footprint size, thus affecting the pressure
    >> applied? A slim woman does more

    >
    > Road strength/thickness/material is based on the forecast no. of
    > million standard lorry axles per year.
    > Motorways , distributor roads, residential roads, park roads,
    > pedestrian paths etc etc are not all designed and built to be the same
    > strength.


    That's what I said, isn't it?

    --
    [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; It's dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    ;; Voltaire RIP Dr David Kelly 1945-2004
     
  14. badger

    badger Guest

    Anthony Jones wrote:
    > Your vague arm waving calculation is unnecessary, just look at the
    > respective tyre pressures. A MTB will typically use around 30psi. I
    > suspect this isn't massively different from that a Landrover would use.
    >
    > Anthony

    30psi? my MTB needs 50-60 or I get pinch punctures...
     
  15. badger wrote:
    >> Your vague arm waving calculation is unnecessary, just look at the
    >> respective tyre pressures. A MTB will typically use around 30psi. I
    >> suspect this isn't massively different from that a Landrover would use.
    >>
    >> Anthony

    > 30psi? my MTB needs 50-60 or I get pinch punctures...


    Never really had a problem at 30-40psi myself (with 2.3in tyres IIRC).
    Evidently YMMV. :)

    Anthony
     
  16. In article <[email protected]>, Pete Biggs
    ([email protected]) wrote:
    > Simon Brooke wrote:
    > > in message <[email protected]>, elyob
    > > ('[email protected]') wrote:
    > >
    > >> Nothing to do with the fact that our streets are too shite to skate
    > >> on then? They could just skate around the park .. unless they are
    > >> put in inappropriate places?

    > >
    > > This takes us straight back to land rovers and green lanes. The
    > > streets of London are not engineered to a lower standard than the
    > > surfaced walks in the park. On the contrary, they're engineered to a
    > > much higher standard. But the walks are smooth enough to skate on and
    > > the streets are not. Why is this? Because damage to the road scales
    > > with the fourth power of axle weight.
    > >
    > > The park paths are in good condition because they have very few heavy
    > > vehicle movements. Consequently they don't get worn out.

    >
    > The London streets are worse mainly because they're constantly dug up for
    > gas, electric and communications cables and only repaired crudely
    > afterwards. Some areas haven't been completely resurfaced for years.


    s/years/decades/ There's a few places on my commute where the cobbles
    are showing through.

    --
    Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
    I thought I saw his name on a jar of marmalade the other day, but when I
    looked more closely, I saw it read 'thick cut'.
     
  17. POHB

    POHB Guest

    > Most of the police I see in the Parks these days are driving up and
    > down the Serpentine Road,


    I saw a convoy of about a dozen bobbies on bikes there a few months back. I
    wondered what they were doing. Do they have training runs for bike police?
     
  18. Alan Holmes

    Alan Holmes Guest

    "Anthony Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > badger wrote:
    >>> Your vague arm waving calculation is unnecessary, just look at the
    >>> respective tyre pressures. A MTB will typically use around 30psi. I
    >>> suspect this isn't massively different from that a Landrover would use.
    >>>
    >>> Anthony

    >> 30psi? my MTB needs 50-60 or I get pinch punctures...

    >
    > Never really had a problem at 30-40psi myself (with 2.3in tyres IIRC).
    > Evidently YMMV. :)


    I had to use at least 60 psi for my Raleigh!

    Alan

    >
    > Anthony
     
  19. Alex R

    Alex R Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "POHB" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > Most of the police I see in the Parks these days are driving up and
    > > down the Serpentine Road,

    >
    > I saw a convoy of about a dozen bobbies on bikes there a few months back. I
    > wondered what they were doing. Do they have training runs for bike police?


    <delurk>
    The standard met police bike course is 2 days long and you do a couple
    of rides about in convoy during it. The course assumes no experience
    whatsoever of cycling so the instructors have to make sure you are okay
    in traffic, etc.

    Alex
    </delurk>
     
  20. Matt B <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Simon Brooke wrote:
    >>
    >> This takes us straight back to land rovers and green lanes. The streets
    >> of London are not engineered to a lower standard than the surfaced walks
    >> in the park. On the contrary, they're engineered to a much higher
    >> standard. But the walks are smooth enough to skate on and the streets
    >> are not. Why is this? Because damage to the road scales with the fourth
    >> power of axle weight.


    > Isn't it influenced by footprint size, thus affecting the pressure
    > applied? A slim woman does more damage to a wooden floor in stilettos
    > that a fat bloke does in carpet slippers.


    No, because the problem with roads isn't denting the surface, it is
    collapsing the underlying weight-bearing foundations, so footprint
    doesn't matter and load on the wheel axle does, where having two
    adjacent wheels counts as having one of twice the wheel load.

    --
    Chris Malcolm [email protected] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
     
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