bikes for eternity?
- Thread starter Nas_kaj
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Nas_kaj said:
No one can answer that. You're the one that will have to spend "eternity" with it.
Is a Crown Jewel Ti a good frame? Sure. Is it worth it? I wouldn't spend what they want for that bike. For me it's not worth it. It's got nothing that distinguishes it from other Ti bikes, other than an IF price. If it speaks to you, though, go for it.
i'd go for steel, readily repairable. custom built, tubing selected for rider-specific demand, in the long run it is the fit you can live with,
assuming you have arrived at an ideal fit, and one that is hopefully racy...
yes ti has been known to break, esp. at welds.
that said, i expect my c-40hp/record ultra to be in service a while longer. the steel bikes i have no longer get ridden.
assuming you have arrived at an ideal fit, and one that is hopefully racy...
yes ti has been known to break, esp. at welds.
that said, i expect my c-40hp/record ultra to be in service a while longer. the steel bikes i have no longer get ridden.
Nas_kaj said:
Nas_kaj said:
Opinion only but something of titanium or stainless steel. Both probably will last forever, ride well, provided they fit ya.
I have a Moots and Waterford R-32(stainless).
Nas_kaj said:
I can only speak about Waterford, since I own one and also sell them.
http://www.waterfordbikes.com
has pricing but essentially a R-32 starts at $3200. Yep, expensive. If you live in an area that isn't prone to rusting things or if you treat the steel initially and frequently with something like Framesaver, any steel will work as well. Like the 14 series Waterford.
The red frame on the Waterford first page is my frame, BTW.
We do Columbus XCR for USD2750 delivered. Dunno if any frame will last for 'eternity' as it's impossible to know what will happen in the future - especially in regards to new technology, geometry etc, bikes on roof-racks driving into garages - but if you can't get decades out of a good frame there's something seriously wrong.
Steel or Ti will definitely give you the best longevity, both practically and style-wise.
Steel or Ti will definitely give you the best longevity, both practically and style-wise.
i'd go with cromo, stainless should be nice but potentially brittle, and harder to repair, wel, ect. just seal the inside of the tubes with boiled linseed oil (framesaver) and keep the externals clean to prevent corrosion.
picking a custom builder would be a blast i'm sure but i would look at derosa, colnago, and such usual suspects for steel.
gvhbikes.com has some nice stuff.
picking a custom builder would be a blast i'm sure but i would look at derosa, colnago, and such usual suspects for steel.
gvhbikes.com has some nice stuff.
Nas_kaj said:
it has more tendency to develop crack formation during welding, this is a metallurgical property of the material recognized fully by columbus. sure, some builders will have the talent and developed skillsets to deal with this trait optimally. most, who predictably have honed their abilities building cromo can be expected to be practicing on this for a while.
the more i think about the bike for eternity premise the more my thoughts turn to columbus max, minimax, or ms as tubing choices, but esp. max, for example a merckx mxl.
richard sachs has crossed my mind, as has spectrum as builders for the long haul.
the more i think about the bike for eternity premise the more my thoughts turn to columbus max, minimax, or ms as tubing choices, but esp. max, for example a merckx mxl.
richard sachs has crossed my mind, as has spectrum as builders for the long haul.
Thylacine said:
Max hasn't been made for a decade or more. It's lineage is Zona so I see little point pining for a tubeset that especially for average to lighter guys is way overbuilt, not to mention difficult to get. Plus I think bi-axial ovalisation makes tubes flexier than good old round tubes, so I'm not really a fan.
You'd be amazed how tough something like Columbus Life is, to. If you're doing the odd race but mostly just busting out the kays, there's no need to go with something as beefy (and long butted) as Max unless you're a big guy, or wanting a light tourer or something like that.
You'd be amazed how tough something like Columbus Life is, to. If you're doing the odd race but mostly just busting out the kays, there's no need to go with something as beefy (and long butted) as Max unless you're a big guy, or wanting a light tourer or something like that.
yeah, max may be brutal for a lighter rider, even though there sure were some smaller frames made with it, and it sure was the choice of those in the know including pros and has a following to this day.
the ovalizing should resist directional forces, but i know masters such as pegoretti believe round is the way to go.
when i think about infinite fatigue life max what comes to mind as a viable candidate, and as you know minimax was a scaled down version of mx as was ms, well, sorta for ms. max is certainly good for offering up the most material to battle fatigue, yet is probably gonna ride less harsh than another ol' standby eternity contender, columbus sp.
there are still max tubesets out there for this, some builders (strong, anvil) are hoarding i just know it.
i don't really pine for steel though, even i do have a megatube nemo wilier that rides nice, colnago has made me a largely a carbon convert.
just kickin' some ideas out there, to each their own.
the ovalizing should resist directional forces, but i know masters such as pegoretti believe round is the way to go.
when i think about infinite fatigue life max what comes to mind as a viable candidate, and as you know minimax was a scaled down version of mx as was ms, well, sorta for ms. max is certainly good for offering up the most material to battle fatigue, yet is probably gonna ride less harsh than another ol' standby eternity contender, columbus sp.
there are still max tubesets out there for this, some builders (strong, anvil) are hoarding i just know it.
i don't really pine for steel though, even i do have a megatube nemo wilier that rides nice, colnago has made me a largely a carbon convert.
just kickin' some ideas out there, to each their own.
Thylacine said:
Nas kaj, not sure I'm clear on your question. Are you talking about a bike you "could ride" for the rest of your life, or one you'll want to ride? I ask because I've still got my 1974 Raleigh Gran Sport sitting and collecting rust....it "could be" ridden any day of the week, but I rarely seem to get around to taking it out anymore. 26 lbs and downtube 10 speed gears just don't seem as hot as they did 35 years ago 
Suggest there are two entirely different answers to your dilemma, depending on your outlook on life:
1) Optimist: buy any high quality frame that you really like (of any material) and see if you can fatigue it in your lifetime of riding. I know a strong Cat 1 racer who's broken frames made of all kinds of materials, but most of us mortals seem to go virtually forever without fatigue failures. Case in point: A buddy recently had his 10 year old custom aluminum frame break @ 75K miles. When I asked if he was happy with the life of the frame, he said yes, totally. He recalled that the builder warned him that the ultra-light scandium tubeset wouldn't last forever, but he thought 75K miles close enough that he had no complaints.
2) Pessimist: Forget the thin-walled race tubesets and CF forks and head right to Surlyville for some real steel. After all, who knows what roads you'll encounter, how many times you'll crash, or what you'll have to carry on your journey to eternity....it's always smart to be prepared for the worst conditions you may encounter.
Suggest there are two entirely different answers to your dilemma, depending on your outlook on life:
1) Optimist: buy any high quality frame that you really like (of any material) and see if you can fatigue it in your lifetime of riding. I know a strong Cat 1 racer who's broken frames made of all kinds of materials, but most of us mortals seem to go virtually forever without fatigue failures. Case in point: A buddy recently had his 10 year old custom aluminum frame break @ 75K miles. When I asked if he was happy with the life of the frame, he said yes, totally. He recalled that the builder warned him that the ultra-light scandium tubeset wouldn't last forever, but he thought 75K miles close enough that he had no complaints.
2) Pessimist: Forget the thin-walled race tubesets and CF forks and head right to Surlyville for some real steel. After all, who knows what roads you'll encounter, how many times you'll crash, or what you'll have to carry on your journey to eternity....it's always smart to be prepared for the worst conditions you may encounter.
i'm very young. i figured it would be a good investment to get a very nice frame that i can ride for 15,000 km per year every year until i'm 60 years old. according to what everyone is saying steel and ti is the way to go. i just needed some brands to look at. after all, i have an expensive taste in sports (cycling, mountain biking, shooting, and golf) so i need to makea good investmentdhk2 said:Nas kaj, not sure I'm clear on your question. Are you talking about a bike you "could ride" for the rest of your life, or one you'll want to ride? I ask because I've still got my 1974 Raleigh Gran Sport sitting and collecting rust....it "could be" ridden any day of the week, but I rarely seem to get around to taking it out anymore. 26 lbs and downtube 10 speed gears just don't seem as hot as they did 35 years ago
Suggest there are two entirely different answers to your dilemma, depending on your outlook on life:
1) Optimist: buy any high quality frame that you really like (of any material) and see if you can fatigue it in your lifetime of riding. I know a strong Cat 1 racer who's broken frames made of all kinds of materials, but most of us mortals seem to go virtually forever without fatigue failures. Case in point: A buddy recently had his 10 year old custom aluminum frame break @ 75K miles. When I asked if he was happy with the life of the frame, he said yes, totally. He recalled that the builder warned him that the ultra-light scandium tubeset wouldn't last forever, but he thought 75K miles close enough that he had no complaints.
2) Pessimist: Forget the thin-walled race tubesets and CF forks and head right to Surlyville for some real steel. After all, who knows what roads you'll encounter, how many times you'll crash, or what you'll have to carry on your journey to eternity....it's always smart to be prepared for the worst conditions you may encounter.
If you really want ONE bike that you will still be riding when you are 60 (but, not necessarily your only bike when you are 60, BTW), then you may want something akin to a REDLINE 'Cyclocross' bike which has clearance for relatively large tyres (e.g., 700-32) AND fenders ("real" CX bikes don't have EITHER fender mounts OR water bottle bosses).Nas_kaj said:
Lightspeed used to have a model (maybe they still do) which was named "Appalachian" (and, "Blue Ridge") ... I don't know if the "Appalachian"/"Blue Ridge" had dropouts with fender mounts.
If you are having a "custom" bike made in the CX/light-touring mode, then consider BRUCE GORDON, amongst others (heck, if you're paying enough, most custom builders will probably be willing to use dropouts with fender mounts).
As far as frame material, I (also) 'vote' for steel.
+1 for the Lynskey ti frames. They are made by the Lynskey family who are back in business after selling their Litespeed company brand. Individual service, excellent workmanship and a good value from a family-owned company that loves bikes.
For a "lifetime" bike, I vote for ti over steel because it doesn't corrode. Steel can be treated to resist corrosion, but in my experience with medium-priced steel frames, it will corrode eventually either from the inside, under the finish or in the scratches which accrue in normal useage and storage in garage/basements over a decade or two. Ti is worry-free by comparison.
No reason you can't ride a race bike when your 60 either.....lots of us do. If it fits you well now, and you keep riding and stay in shape over the next decades, you can still be enjoying the same bike.
For a "lifetime" bike, I vote for ti over steel because it doesn't corrode. Steel can be treated to resist corrosion, but in my experience with medium-priced steel frames, it will corrode eventually either from the inside, under the finish or in the scratches which accrue in normal useage and storage in garage/basements over a decade or two. Ti is worry-free by comparison.
No reason you can't ride a race bike when your 60 either.....lots of us do. If it fits you well now, and you keep riding and stay in shape over the next decades, you can still be enjoying the same bike.
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