Bikes Running Red Lights

I prefer not to run red lights if I can help it. I agree that if we want
respect from drivers and the right to use the roads, we should respect
the road rules like anyone else. However, at 5am in the morning and I'm
late for training and there's no one around (especially cars), I will
run certain lights that I know take forever to change. If there's any
other cars sitting there though, I'll wait too. When riding in a bunch,
I try to persuade fellow riders to stop if we get caught (and only half
the bunch makes it through). Sure, it's a pain in the ass, especially
since you've got to haul ass to catch the bunch again, but it's for our
collective image as cyclists that we need to endure a bit of
inconvenience.
PS A mate was fined the other day for running a red light by a
plain-clothes cop and he tried to fight it and was fined more (maybe
for abusing a cop??).

--

Quoted message said:

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Dont top post Liz...

: Specially when it's a 4WD that's just stopped to deliver a child at
school,
: and is turning into a major road.

Funny you should say that. I was driving the other day through school hours
and had a mother in her 4wd bohemoth tail gating me for about 10k's as I was
keep the limit at 60. The speed dropped to 40 for the school zone and the
road went to two lanes. She proceeded to floor the car up to about 70. She
had her truck full of kids and was racing to drop them to school. She
pulled up straight in front of the school.

troyq said:

I know a "red light" is a "red light" but im interested to know if
people treat red lights differently in different circumstances, such as
pedestrian crossings...

Crikey! Considering how many cyclists I see running red lights, there's
a lot of saintly people on this group! (Having said that, there's a lot
of bikers out there who aren't excited enough about biking to jump on
usenet and talk about it...) I only say this because it [censored] me so much
when people run red lights.

As for me, I wait at pedestrian and intersectional traffic lights alike.
I'll usually press the pedestrian button if I want it to change (which
is still illegal to mount the footpath!)

--

Quoted message said:

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Posted via cyclingforums.com
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Andrew Swan <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:

[snip]

You're unlikely to find anyone here on usenet to admit they run
through red lights. Much more likely to find that everyone is an angel
and frowns on other people's transgressions. Since most usenet posters
can also ride faster than the transgressors, we can politely tell them
their behaviour diminishes our road user's rights in the eyes of
motorists.

Of course, we know what we _ought_ to do, but the commuters that ride
in through Pyrmont in Sydney almost exclusively blow through the
lights wherever possible. Not me tho', honest guv.

Careful though - it's hard to get sympathy from the nurses when they
find out what you did to get hit.

Ritch.

"Andrew Swan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:

I have never run a red light in or on any vehicle, I can't bring myself to
do it.

"Andrew Lighten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Andrew Swan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:

(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching

<blah>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

Never ever ever.

(1) I want all other road users to respect me as a rightful user of the
road, and to do so, it's important that I follow the rules that they need

to

Quoted message said:

abide by.

(2) I'm kinda lucky to be here today after being hit (in a car) by a drunk
running a red light late one night. Came through a crossroads

(Melbournians:

Quoted message said:

corner of Springfield Rd and Blackburn Rd) and hit the front right guard

of

Quoted message said:

my car, spinning me around a few times while he speared off into a power
pole. A few feet further and it would have been the driver's door that he
hit, not the guard. I was very lucky to walk away with a few cracked ribs
and a thumping headache.

(3) Accidents happen at intersections, not when you're idling along some
country lane "Famous Five" style. Life is precious, people. We gotta take
care out there.

So what do you do in situation (i) ? We have two known sets of lights around
here that don't detect bikes.

Quoted message said:

So what do you do in situation (i) ? We have two known sets of lights

around

Quoted message said:

here that don't detect bikes.

Any pedestrian crossings on those intersections? Buttons you can hit?

"Andrew Lighten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So what do you do in situation (i) ? We have two known sets of

lights

Quoted message said:

around here that don't detect bikes.

Any pedestrian crossings on those intersections? Buttons you can hit?

By the time you get up onto the curb and press the button, wouldn't the
light have already changed?
Surely the light's default mode isn't "red" - someone must've activated
the crossing for it to change - so it will change back, right?
Or if it's an intersection, they cycle through so both directions get a
run - don't they?
If the traffic is _that_ infrequent that you have to go over to a ped
crossing and hit the button - surely you could safely go through?

hippy

Quoted message said:

By the time you get up onto the curb and press the button, wouldn't the
light have already changed?

Yeah, but the question was what you do at lights that don't have a timer and
don't get tripped by a bike.

For me it's kind of a moot point anyway. The nearest traffic light from
where I live is ~15km, and I always cycle in the other direction. :-)

Andy Simpson said:

"Andrew Lighten" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

So what do you do in situation (i) ? We have two known sets of lights around
here that don't detect bikes.

Have you written to or contacted the authority that looks after the lights?
Here in Vic, if Vicroads gets a complaints, they will call out the techs
to adjust the sensitivity of the detector.

Al

When would I run a red?

having been hit by a car about 6 years ago, under controlled race
conditions, the answer is :

a) Never.

As a motorist, as well as a cyclist, nothing annoys me more than seeing a
cyclist go sailing through a red light just because they can...

Most cyclists (you ask Critical Mass) want equal road usage rights, and
IMHO, equal rights to the roads, INCLUDES following the documented road
rules, of which one is stopping at a red light...

"Andrew Swan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:

(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching
(c) depends if there's any drivers watching
(d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
(e) depends if there's any cops watching
(f) depends if there's any danger to me
(g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
(h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
(might be a special case of (g) or not)
(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

<soapbox>
My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red
was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your money/health if you
get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you. Like it or not, 80%
of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve) will
show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the
regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules. You can't expect
motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to yourself) if you
flout your obligations on the road.
</soapbox>

P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few lights
(and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why you can't, if
you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of
the law, but the reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal
beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the goodwill we can generate, because
if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds on the forest
floor.

P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)

&roo

Probably got his license out of the most convenient Kellogg's package... ;-)
"Ray Peace" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Greetings,
That's nothing, my favourite red light moron was a couple of years ago less than 2 km from here. I was stopping behind two lanes of cars for a red pedestrian light. The idiot on my right locked up all four wheels and slid to a halt less than two metres from the car in front. He then executed a left turn in front of me and went through the red light on the footpath (!) Where did this [censored] get his licence in the first place ?
Regards,
Ray.

Liz wrote:

Does everyone always stop at pedestrian lights? NO! Well not car driversanyway.I went for a walk the other day and came to a pedestrian only crossing on amoderately busy road. Pushed the button, waited for the little green man toappear, checked to see that the approaching car really was stopping, thenstarted to cross. Then another car came up from behind, beeped its horn,swerved past the stopped car and continued full speed through theintersection. Gave me quite a fright."troyq" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:[email hidden]...Andrew Swan wrote: > Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts meto > ask, do you run red lights: > <snip> > &rooI know a "red light" is a "red light" but im interested to know ifpeople treat red lights differently in different circumstances, such aspedestrian crossings...Case in point, this morning on my way to work I was cruising down ahill about to begin the few hundred metre climb up the other side andsure enough the pedestrian lights go red just before i get there.Normally, no problem, wait for pedestrians... however it turns out tobe school kids pressing the button while walking by with no intentionof crossing the road.Of course I stopped, for all the reasons everyone else has mentionedabove... but I was very tempted to continue, and spray a word or severalin their direction.So back to my point, a red light is a red light but does everyone alwaysstop (and remain stopped) at pedestrian lights?
----------------------------<Posted via cyclingforums.comhttp://www.cyclingforums.com

"Andrew Morris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

When would I run a red?

having been hit by a car about 6 years ago, under controlled race
conditions, the answer is :

a) Never.

As a motorist, as well as a cyclist, nothing annoys me more than seeing a
cyclist go sailing through a red light just because they can...

Most cyclists (you ask Critical Mass) want equal road usage rights, and
IMHO, equal rights to the roads, INCLUDES following the documented road
rules, of which one is stopping at a red light...

On a slight divergence; from my one ride with critical mass, pissing off
drivers by holding up whole major intersections during peak hour is perhaps
not the most effective way of doing it.

Tim

Tim Jones said:

Quoted message said:

Most cyclists (you ask Critical Mass) want equal road usage rights, and
IMHO, equal rights to the roads, INCLUDES following the documented road
rules, of which one is stopping at a red light...

Quoted message said:

On a slight divergence; from my one ride with critical mass, pissing off
drivers by holding up whole major intersections during peak hour is perhaps
not the most effective way of doing it.

Not the most effective way of doing what? Cyclists having a good time
and gaining some confidence in on-road riding? CM is great for that..

Cyclists have just as much right to be on the roads at 6pm as anyone
else does.. Any other day at 6pm you'd see mostly cars engaging in
their own weird rituals (Homer Simpson described one such ritual quite
well as: gas brake honk, gas brake honk, honk honk punch, gas gas gas,
but there are hundreds more) and that's not that different.. The
number of queued cars blocking intersections citywide at any given
point of a CM ride is probably greater than the number of CM riders
anyway..

PC

"PC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tim Jones said:

Quoted message said:

Most cyclists (you ask Critical Mass) want equal road usage rights, and
IMHO, equal rights to the roads, INCLUDES following the documented road
rules, of which one is stopping at a red light...

Quoted message said:

On a slight divergence; from my one ride with critical mass, pissing off
drivers by holding up whole major intersections during peak hour is

perhaps

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not the most effective way of doing it.

Not the most effective way of doing what? Cyclists having a good time
and gaining some confidence in on-road riding? CM is great for that..

Not a good way of inducing motorists to look favourably upon cyclists.

What I was talking about specifically was that I have no issue with the
ride, even taking up several lanes for a few hundred cyclists to go around
the city. The ride I went on however culminated in stopping in the middle of
a busy intersection, whooping, someone holding their bicycle over their head
and not moving on.

It was after they stayed still in the middle of the intersection for a few
minutes saying some speaches that I could not hear from the back that I
decided to move on before it got ugly.

Quoted message said:

Cyclists have just as much right to be on the roads at 6pm as anyone
else does..

Completely agree, and as most people have said in this thread, they look at
traffic violations as something which tars all cyclists.

Quoted message said:

Any other day at 6pm you'd see mostly cars engaging in
their own weird rituals (Homer Simpson described one such ritual quite
well as: gas brake honk, gas brake honk, honk honk punch, gas gas gas,
but there are hundreds more) and that's not that different. The
number of queued cars blocking intersections citywide at any given
point of a CM ride is probably greater than the number of CM riders
anyway..

That may well be, and if the ride is meant to celebrate cyclists enjoyment
of the roads that is fine and it serves its purpose. If it is however there
to promote equal road use for cyclists, it is just pissing off the
motorists. It is not making them see your point, they will just sit in their
car fuming.

It will promote equal road use to the cyclists, but this is just preaching
to the converted.

Tim

Tim Jones said:

Quoted message said:

Not the most effective way of doing what? Cyclists having a good time
and gaining some confidence in on-road riding? CM is great for that..

Quoted message said:

Not a good way of inducing motorists to look favourably upon cyclists.

Since when was that the goal? It's there to encourage onlookers to
become cyclists, not to encourage motorists to remain motorists but
become nice motorists.. As it's quite simply impossible to make
motorists less arrogant (towards each other, let alone toward
cyclists), any attempt to play nice would only be met by their usual
attitide.. Better ot ignore them altogehter..

Quoted message said:

What I was talking about specifically was that I have no issue with the
ride, even taking up several lanes for a few hundred cyclists to go around
the city. The ride I went on however culminated in stopping in the middle of
a busy intersection, whooping, someone holding their bicycle over their head
and not moving on.

Quite normal.. And how many times have you seen cars block
intersections for several minutes while, say, honking their horns?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The number of queued cars blocking intersections citywide at any
given point of a CM ride is probably greater than the number of CM
riders anyway..

Quoted message said:

That may well be, and if the ride is meant to celebrate cyclists enjoyment
of the roads that is fine and it serves its purpose. If it is however there
to promote equal road use for cyclists,

Since when? What on earth gave you that idea?

Actually, it's about a lot of things, everybody has their own reasons
for attending, but the bulk of the people that I know there do it for
the "having a good time in a big city" factor..

Quoted message said:

it is just pissing off the motorists. It is not making them see your point,
they will just sit in their car fuming.

They'd be doing that anyway..

Quoted message said:

It will promote equal road use to the cyclists, but this is just preaching
to the converted.

There are also bystanders, who could well be public transport users
who might realise that bikes are faster than trams, or car
passengers/car poolers who might think about cycling instead of
mooching more rides or buying a car..

Meanwhile, once someone owns a car, it's almost impossible to coax
them out of it, as most of the costs have to be paid for (repayments,
rego, insurance etc) whether the car is used or sits in the garage..

PC

"PC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Since when? What on earth gave you that idea?

In response to Andrew Morris:

"...Most cyclists (you ask Critical Mass) want equal road usage rights..."

Tim

Well just to get in on the me too act. I don't stop at red lights in the
morning on my way to work at 4:30 am if I can see it's safe to roll
through them. I should be careful though as I have previously
encountered a black Supra without lights passing me at approx 100kph one
morning.

If I can see that the lights are just about to go green then I'll slow
down just to make sure I don't hit the red light runners coming through,
here in Adelaide you get a 3 second period red lights for both
directions so you can generally judge the lights prettty easily.

One intersection in particular is always red and also has one of those
handy bicyle crossing buttons, like ped buttons only facing the road, I
could use it in the mornings but usually I just wait for a clear patch
then scoot across to avoid pissing off the drivers who have to wait just
for a bike.

I break 60kph every day going down my one small hill. But I am fat,
skinny blokes don't have to worry about this.

I wear my helmet every time I use my bike now seeing as just a few weeks
ago I gave the finger to some [censored] on a motorbike who tooted me one
afternoon when I ducked down to the shops (200m away) one afternoon.
Said [censored] was a copper who then sent me a ticket in the post.

I don't ride on the footpath as they are in worse shape than the roads.

In Thailand I drafted a taxi for a good 2 hours, that was great fun as
I'd pass him whenever he had to pick up a passenger then slip back in
after he passed me. All of the people in the back were laughing and
cheering me on. One of my fondest memories of my life. The taxi was like
a holden rodeo ute with a couple of bench seats in the back and a canopy.

I indicate to turn right if there are cars behind me then if they let me
in I also give a wave or a thumbs up.

But generally I just stay in my lane and try not to get killed. If I
happen to break the road rules so be it.
--
Cheers
Damian Harvey

This space reserved for standard disclaimer, witty quote,
plug for own business in caps and large, bad ASCII art.

Well just to get in on the me too act. I don't stop at red lights in the
morning on my way to work at 4:30 am if I can see it's safe to roll
through them. I should be careful though as I have previously
encountered a black Supra without lights passing me at approx 100kph one
morning.

If I can see that the lights are just about to go green then I'll slow
down just to make sure I don't hit the red light runners coming through,
here in Adelaide you get a 3 second period red lights for both
directions so you can generally judge the lights prettty easily.

One intersection in particular is always red and also has one of those
handy bicyle crossing buttons, like ped buttons only facing the road, I
could use it in the mornings but usually I just wait for a clear patch
then scoot across to avoid pissing off the drivers who have to wait just
for a bike.

I break 60kph every day going down my one small hill. But I am fat,
skinny blokes don't have to worry about this.

I wear my helmet every time I use my bike now seeing as just a few weeks
ago I gave the finger to some [censored] on a motorbike who tooted me one
afternoon when I ducked down to the shops (200m away) one afternoon.
Said [censored] was a copper who then sent me a ticket in the post.

I don't ride on the footpath as they are in worse shape than the roads.

In Thailand I drafted a taxi for a good 2 hours, that was great fun as
I'd pass him whenever he had to pick up a passenger then slip back in
after he passed me. All of the people in the back were laughing and
cheering me on. One of my fondest memories of my life. The taxi was like
a holden rodeo ute with a couple of bench seats in the back and a canopy.

I indicate to turn right if there are cars behind me then if they let me
in I also give a wave or a thumbs up.

But generally I just stay in my lane and try not to get killed. If I
happen to break the road rules so be it.
--
Cheers
Damian Harvey

This space reserved for standard disclaimer, witty quote,
plug for own business in caps and large, bad ASCII art.

Well just to get in on the me too act. I don't stop at red lights in the
morning on my way to work at 4:30 am if I can see it's safe to roll
through them. I should be careful though as I have previously
encountered a black Supra without lights passing me at approx 100kph one
morning.

If I can see that the lights are just about to go green then I'll slow
down just to make sure I don't hit the red light runners coming through,
here in Adelaide you get a 3 second period red lights for both
directions so you can generally judge the lights prettty easily.

One intersection in particular is always red and also has one of those
handy bicyle crossing buttons, like ped buttons only facing the road, I
could use it in the mornings but usually I just wait for a clear patch
then scoot across to avoid pissing off the drivers who have to wait just
for a bike.

I break 60kph every day going down my one small hill. But I am fat,
skinny blokes don't have to worry about this.

I wear my helmet every time I use my bike now seeing as just a few weeks
ago I gave the finger to some [censored] on a motorbike who tooted me one
afternoon when I ducked down to the shops (200m away) one afternoon.
Said [censored] was a copper who then sent me a ticket in the post.

I don't ride on the footpath as they are in worse shape than the roads.

In Thailand I drafted a taxi for a good 2 hours, that was great fun as
I'd pass him whenever he had to pick up a passenger then slip back in
after he passed me. All of the people in the back were laughing and
cheering me on. One of my fondest memories of my life. The taxi was like
a holden rodeo ute with a couple of bench seats in the back and a canopy.

I indicate to turn right if there are cars behind me then if they let me
in I also give a wave or a thumbs up.

But generally I just stay in my lane and try not to get killed. If I
happen to break the road rules so be it.
--
Cheers
Damian Harvey

This space reserved for standard disclaimer, witty quote,
plug for own business in caps and large, bad ASCII art.