bikes that don't steer

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Martin, Jul 2, 2003.

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  1. Martin

    Martin Guest

    An old chestnut probably but can anyone suggest a head set that does not develop an annoying @centre
    [email protected] which makes steering around shallow bends really dodgy. I've been advised to knock out the
    cups and turn them 90o but surely that will eventually cause more problems.An Ahead stem does not
    seem to help either.
     
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  2. Henry Braun

    Henry Braun Guest

    On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, martin wrote:

    > An old chestnut probably but can anyone suggest a head set that does not develop an annoying
    > @centre [email protected] which makes steering around shallow bends really dodgy. I've been advised to knock
    > out the cups and turn them 90o but surely that will eventually cause more problems.An Ahead stem
    > does not seem to help either.

    After how long does this problem develop? As you say, it's an old chestnut---I'm sure you've Googled
    for past threads on the subject---and I'm beginning to feel nervously unusual in that my steering
    feels just the same as it did 20,000 miles ago. Am I doing something wrong? Or could the long
    head-tube on a 25" frame make a difference to the longevity of the headset?
     
  3. Tim Woodall

    Tim Woodall Guest

    On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:35:00 +0100, Henry Braun <[email protected]> wrote:
    > On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, martin wrote:
    >
    >> An old chestnut probably but can anyone suggest a head set that does not develop an annoying
    >> @centre [email protected] which makes steering around shallow bends really dodgy. I've been advised to knock
    >> out the cups and turn them 90o but surely that will eventually cause more problems.An Ahead stem
    >> does not seem to help either.
    >
    > After how long does this problem develop? As you say, it's an old chestnut---I'm sure you've
    > Googled for past threads on the subject---and I'm beginning to feel nervously unusual in that my
    > steering feels just the same as it did 20,000 miles ago. Am I doing something wrong? Or could the
    > long head-tube on a 25" frame make a difference to the longevity of the headset?

    Do you check and maintain your headset? I had one that wouldn't stay tight and it very quickly got
    this notching. My current headset has little grub screws to stop it turning and, apart from one
    tightening after about a month, it has needed no adjustment and has got no play.

    I think if there is even a tiny amount of play then the vibration from the road causes the bearings
    to dent the races.

    Regards,

    Tim.

    --
    God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.

    http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/
     
  4. Arthur Clune

    Arthur Clune Guest

    martin <[email protected]> wrote:
    : An old chestnut probably but can anyone suggest a head set that does not develop an annoying
    : @centre [email protected] which makes steering around shallow bends really dodgy. I've been advised to knock
    : out the cups and turn them 90o but surely that will eventually cause more problems.An Ahead stem
    : does not seem to help either.

    Any decent one which isn't overtighten.

    If you are getting this, it's cos your headset is too tight. Buy a new one (don't bother turning the
    cups 90 degrees, headsets are cheap).

    Spend 20 quid and you'll get one that will last for many years. Just get someone other than the
    person who installed the last one to install it.

    Arthur

    --
    Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org Power is delightful. Absolute power is absolutely delightful -
    Lord Lester
     
  5. W K

    W K Guest

    "Arthur Clune" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > martin <[email protected]> wrote:
    > : An old chestnut probably but can anyone suggest a head set that does not develop an annoying
    > : @centre [email protected] which makes steering around shallow bends really dodgy. I've been advised to
    > : knock out the cups and turn them 90o but surely that will eventually cause more problems.An
    > : Ahead stem does not seem to help either.
    >
    > Any decent one which isn't overtighten.

    Ah. Mine's like that. Last words to mechanic "are you sure thats not too tight". [They were having a
    very hard time in that shop at the time though] Also a non-too-dry garage can't help.

    > If you are getting this, it's cos your headset is too tight. Buy a new one (don't bother turning
    > the cups 90 degrees, headsets are cheap).
    >
    > Spend 20 quid and you'll get one that will last for many years. Just get someone other than the
    > person who installed the last one to install it.

    I imagine its not even worth thinking about doing it yourself ?
     
  6. Arthur Clune

    Arthur Clune Guest

    W K <[email protected]> wrote:

    : I imagine its not even worth thinking about doing it yourself ?

    Some people do. Personally it's one of the two things on my bike I don't do myself (the other being
    wheelbuilding).

    You can fit a headset with a hammer and a couple of blocks of wood, but using a proper headset press
    makes it much less likely that you'll bork your frame.

    Arthur

    --
    Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org Power is delightful. Absolute power is absolutely delightful -
    Lord Lester
     
  7. W K

    W K Guest

    "Arthur Clune" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > W K <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > : I imagine its not even worth thinking about doing it yourself ?
    >
    > Some people do. Personally it's one of the two things on my bike I don't do myself (the other
    > being wheelbuilding).
    >
    > You can fit a headset with a hammer and a couple of blocks of wood, but using a proper headset
    > press makes it much less likely that you'll bork your frame.

    Its a threaded by the way. What about the extraction? I suppose its on Sheldon Brown, but its
    just for the kind of thing that I like some nodding or shaking heads and "phhhh"ing to figure out
    how hard it
    is.

    I have a big enough garage with enough spare pieces of wood to make some sort of jig to bash things
    without putting forces on the frame (probable replacement value <80 squids.).
     
  8. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    martin wrote:
    > An old chestnut probably but can anyone suggest a head set that does not develop an annoying
    > @centre [email protected] which makes steering around shallow bends really dodgy.

    Even the most basic cheap ones should not do that if properly adjusted and kept lubricated. If
    difficult to adjust properly (ie. get passed the point of play but with no binding), get head
    tube re-faced.

    However, if you do want an virtual guarantee of no-notching, then a needle/roller bearing type
    headset is the thing, eg. Stronglight A9. Trouble is, they can run with more friction and be more
    difficult to adjust right.

    > I've been advised to knock out the cups and turn them 90o but surely that will eventually cause
    > more problems.

    No, that will help, for a bit. Replacing caged balls with loose balls may also help a little (more
    balls to share the load). Note. The problem might seem to go away simply by re-lubing ....but it'll
    be back a few miles later :-(

    I think you might as well get a new headset now (a cheap one will do if you don't mind heavy steel)
    and get it *properly* installed and adjusted.

    ~PB
     
  9. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    W K wrote: [on DIY headset fitting]
    > Its a threaded by the way. What about the extraction? I suppose its on Sheldon Brown, but its just
    > for the kind of thing that I like some nodding or shaking heads and "phhhh"ing to figure out how
    > hard it is.
    >
    > I have a big enough garage with enough spare pieces of wood to make some sort of jig to bash
    > things without putting forces on the frame (probable replacement value <80 squids.).

    With any decent bike, I don't think it's worth risking busting frame or headset with bodging. Apart
    from anything else, some modern alloy headset cups and races are very flimsy and can easily be bent.
    Tightness of press fit varies from bike to bike and headset to headset. Some are easy, some are
    bastard-tight. For the latter, proper tools really are needed, IMO. Trouble is, you won't know how
    easy the job will be until you start.

    I fit my own headsets using Cyclus headset press and remover tools (for head tube cups) which are
    relatively inexpensive and a delight to use compared to any bodging. I haven't got round to getting
    fork crown race tools yet, but should do. Hammer and screwdriver is not nice! :)

    Good instructions: http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/howfix_headset.shtml

    BTW, Anyone else find Stronlight A9 crown races are too small? Supposed to be correct English size
    but didn't fit two of my forks without increasing the ID. :-( What a crap bodge!

    ~PB
     
  10. "martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > An old chestnut probably but can anyone suggest a head set that does not develop an annoying
    > @centre [email protected] which makes steering around shallow bends really dodgy. I've been advised to knock
    > out the cups and turn them 90o but surely that will eventually cause more problems.An Ahead stem
    > does not seem to help either.

    I _thought_ my stem had become notchy until I realised that it was actually the setting of the
    brake/gear cables that were pushing the bars to the centre and putting up a resistance against going
    off-centre - only noticed this effect on the stand.

    Rich
     
  11. Martin

    Martin Guest

    "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > martin wrote:
    > > An old chestnut probably but can anyone suggest a head set that does not develop an annoying
    > > @centre [email protected] which makes steering around shallow bends really dodgy.
    >
    > Even the most basic cheap ones should not do that if properly adjusted and kept lubricated. If
    > difficult to adjust properly (ie. get passed the point of play but with no binding), get head tube
    > re-faced.
    >
    > However, if you do want an virtual guarantee of no-notching, then a needle/roller bearing type
    > headset is the thing, eg. Stronglight A9. Trouble is, they can run with more friction and be more
    > difficult to adjust right.
    >
    > > I've been advised to knock out the cups and turn them 90o but surely that will eventually cause
    > > more problems.
    >
    > No, that will help, for a bit. Replacing caged balls with loose balls may also help a little (more
    > balls to share the load). Note. The problem might seem to go away simply by re-lubing ....but
    > it'll be back a few miles later :-(
    >
    > I think you might as well get a new headset now (a cheap one will do if you don't mind heavy
    > steel) and get it *properly* installed and adjusted.
    >
    > ~PB
    Thanks for all that. the Headset (Tange)came on the frame from Ribble but I had to put a Ahead stem
    and spacers on. I might go for the needle bearing option as this seems the most worth-spending
    -money -on option.
     
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