Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park



M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
What crime did the bear commit, that it deserves to die?! She was only
defending her cubs!

Mike


http://www.komotv.com/news/9538012.html:





Black bear attacks bicyclist in park

Story Published: Sep 2, 2007 at 4:14 PM PDT

Story Updated: Sep 3, 2007 at 7:33 AM PDT





By KOMO Staff

Watch the story
NEAR OLLALA, Wash. -- A man was attacked by a bear while mountain
biking in the Banner Forest Heritage Park just before noon on Sunday,
according to South Kitsap Fire and Rescue officials.

Spokesman Ron Powers said a 51-year-old Port Orchard man was biking
with his two dogs alongside him when the dogs ran ahead and around the
bend, then started barking fiercely. The man turned the bend and saw
the dogs were barking at a bear.

Powers said the bear immediately charged at the man, who tried to use
his bike to shield himself from the animal. But the bear managed to
injure the man's arm, back, neck and ear before he was able to get
back on his bike and ride away.

Down the path, the injured man ran into other mountain bikers, who
called 911.

The man was conscious and alert when he was taken to St. Joseph
Medical Center in Tacoma. The unidentified man is in serious
condition, but is expected to recover.

One of the man's dogs is still missing. It is not known whether the
dog suffered injuries during the attack. The second dog is said to be
OK.

Officials evacuated the park and shut it down in order to search for
the bear. Powers said if the bear is found, officials plan to kill it.
Officials said crews will search through the night until the bear is
found.

Another bicyclist who was at the park on Sunday told authorities he
saw mother bear and two cubs while riding on the trail.

Powers said Sunday's attack is a freak accident, stating black bears
rarely attack humans and, unless provoked or threatened, will run
away. The man or the dogs may have appeared as a threat to the bear,
who may have been protecting her cubs, Powers said.

Area resident Teri Nelson agrees, while bears are not uncommon at the
park, she didn't expect them to be aggressive.

"Attacking somebody would make me have second thoughts about walking
through this forest by myself," she said. "It's pretty scary."
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
I

Ist-e Mundus, Furia bundus

Guest
"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> What crime did the bear commit, that it deserves to die?! She was only
> defending her cubs!
>
> Mike
>
>
> http://www.komotv.com/news/9538012.html:
>
>
>
>
>
> Black bear attacks bicyclist in park
>
> Story Published: Sep 2, 2007 at 4:14 PM PDT
>
> Story Updated: Sep 3, 2007 at 7:33 AM PDT
>
>
>
>
>
> By KOMO Staff
>
> Watch the story
> NEAR OLLALA, Wash. -- A man was attacked by a bear while mountain
> biking in the Banner Forest Heritage Park just before noon on Sunday,
> according to South Kitsap Fire and Rescue officials.
>
> Spokesman Ron Powers said a 51-year-old Port Orchard man was biking
> with his two dogs alongside him when the dogs ran ahead and around the
> bend, then started barking fiercely. The man turned the bend and saw
> the dogs were barking at a bear.
>
> Powers said the bear immediately charged at the man, who tried to use
> his bike to shield himself from the animal. But the bear managed to
> injure the man's arm, back, neck and ear before he was able to get
> back on his bike and ride away.
>
> Down the path, the injured man ran into other mountain bikers, who
> called 911.
>
> The man was conscious and alert when he was taken to St. Joseph
> Medical Center in Tacoma. The unidentified man is in serious
> condition, but is expected to recover.
>
> One of the man's dogs is still missing. It is not known whether the
> dog suffered injuries during the attack. The second dog is said to be
> OK.
>
> Officials evacuated the park and shut it down in order to search for
> the bear. Powers said if the bear is found, officials plan to kill it.
> Officials said crews will search through the night until the bear is
> found.
>
> Another bicyclist who was at the park on Sunday told authorities he
> saw mother bear and two cubs while riding on the trail.
>
> Powers said Sunday's attack is a freak accident, stating black bears
> rarely attack humans and, unless provoked or threatened, will run
> away. The man or the dogs may have appeared as a threat to the bear,
> who may have been protecting her cubs, Powers said.
>
> Area resident Teri Nelson agrees, while bears are not uncommon at the
> park, she didn't expect them to be aggressive.
>
> "Attacking somebody would make me have second thoughts about walking
> through this forest by myself," she said. "It's pretty scary."
> --
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
> fond of!
>


How do you know it was defending cubs? The article only says "may have
been", and that there was a report of a bear with two cubs. No guarantee it
was the same bear as "bears are not uncommon at the park". There you go
leaping to conclusions again, reaffirming your status as the primo number
one twit-extraordinaire on usenet.
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:00:50 -0600, "Ist-e Mundus, Furia bundus"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> What crime did the bear commit, that it deserves to die?! She was only
>> defending her cubs!
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> http://www.komotv.com/news/9538012.html:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Black bear attacks bicyclist in park
>>
>> Story Published: Sep 2, 2007 at 4:14 PM PDT
>>
>> Story Updated: Sep 3, 2007 at 7:33 AM PDT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> By KOMO Staff
>>
>> Watch the story
>> NEAR OLLALA, Wash. -- A man was attacked by a bear while mountain
>> biking in the Banner Forest Heritage Park just before noon on Sunday,
>> according to South Kitsap Fire and Rescue officials.
>>
>> Spokesman Ron Powers said a 51-year-old Port Orchard man was biking
>> with his two dogs alongside him when the dogs ran ahead and around the
>> bend, then started barking fiercely. The man turned the bend and saw
>> the dogs were barking at a bear.
>>
>> Powers said the bear immediately charged at the man, who tried to use
>> his bike to shield himself from the animal. But the bear managed to
>> injure the man's arm, back, neck and ear before he was able to get
>> back on his bike and ride away.
>>
>> Down the path, the injured man ran into other mountain bikers, who
>> called 911.
>>
>> The man was conscious and alert when he was taken to St. Joseph
>> Medical Center in Tacoma. The unidentified man is in serious
>> condition, but is expected to recover.
>>
>> One of the man's dogs is still missing. It is not known whether the
>> dog suffered injuries during the attack. The second dog is said to be
>> OK.
>>
>> Officials evacuated the park and shut it down in order to search for
>> the bear. Powers said if the bear is found, officials plan to kill it.
>> Officials said crews will search through the night until the bear is
>> found.
>>
>> Another bicyclist who was at the park on Sunday told authorities he
>> saw mother bear and two cubs while riding on the trail.
>>
>> Powers said Sunday's attack is a freak accident, stating black bears
>> rarely attack humans and, unless provoked or threatened, will run
>> away. The man or the dogs may have appeared as a threat to the bear,
>> who may have been protecting her cubs, Powers said.
>>
>> Area resident Teri Nelson agrees, while bears are not uncommon at the
>> park, she didn't expect them to be aggressive.
>>
>> "Attacking somebody would make me have second thoughts about walking
>> through this forest by myself," she said. "It's pretty scary."
>> --
>> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
>> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
>> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>>
>> Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
>> fond of!
>>

>
>How do you know it was defending cubs? The article only says "may have
>been", and that there was a report of a bear with two cubs. No guarantee it
>was the same bear as "bears are not uncommon at the park". There you go
>leaping to conclusions again, reaffirming your status as the primo number
>one twit-extraordinaire on usenet.


It's a well-known fact that black bears don't attack humans, except to
defend their cubs. Do you think it was offended by the color of his
outfit?!
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
B

Bruce Jensen

Guest
On Sep 3, 11:00 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:00:50 -0600, "Ist-e Mundus, Furia bundus"
>
>
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]
> >> What crime did the bear commit, that it deserves to die?! She was only
> >> defending her cubs!

>
> >> Mike

>
> >>http://www.komotv.com/news/9538012.html:

>
> >> Black bear attacks bicyclist in park

>
> >> Story Published: Sep 2, 2007 at 4:14 PM PDT

>
> >> Story Updated: Sep 3, 2007 at 7:33 AM PDT

>
> >> By KOMO Staff

>
> >> Watch the story
> >> NEAR OLLALA, Wash. -- A man was attacked by a bear while mountain
> >> biking in the Banner Forest Heritage Park just before noon on Sunday,
> >> according to South Kitsap Fire and Rescue officials.

>
> >> Spokesman Ron Powers said a 51-year-old Port Orchard man was biking
> >> with his two dogs alongside him when the dogs ran ahead and around the
> >> bend, then started barking fiercely. The man turned the bend and saw
> >> the dogs were barking at a bear.

>
> >> Powers said the bear immediately charged at the man, who tried to use
> >> his bike to shield himself from the animal. But the bear managed to
> >> injure the man's arm, back, neck and ear before he was able to get
> >> back on his bike and ride away.

>
> >> Down the path, the injured man ran into other mountain bikers, who
> >> called 911.

>
> >> The man was conscious and alert when he was taken to St. Joseph
> >> Medical Center in Tacoma. The unidentified man is in serious
> >> condition, but is expected to recover.

>
> >> One of the man's dogs is still missing. It is not known whether the
> >> dog suffered injuries during the attack. The second dog is said to be
> >> OK.

>
> >> Officials evacuated the park and shut it down in order to search for
> >> the bear. Powers said if the bear is found, officials plan to kill it.
> >> Officials said crews will search through the night until the bear is
> >> found.

>
> >> Another bicyclist who was at the park on Sunday told authorities he
> >> saw mother bear and two cubs while riding on the trail.

>
> >> Powers said Sunday's attack is a freak accident, stating black bears
> >> rarely attack humans and, unless provoked or threatened, will run
> >> away. The man or the dogs may have appeared as a threat to the bear,
> >> who may have been protecting her cubs, Powers said.

>
> >> Area resident Teri Nelson agrees, while bears are not uncommon at the
> >> park, she didn't expect them to be aggressive.

>
> >> "Attacking somebody would make me have second thoughts about walking
> >> through this forest by myself," she said. "It's pretty scary."
> >> --
> >> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> >> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> >> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

>
> >> Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
> >> fond of!

>
> >How do you know it was defending cubs? The article only says "may have
> >been", and that there was a report of a bear with two cubs. No guarantee it
> >was the same bear as "bears are not uncommon at the park". There you go
> >leaping to conclusions again, reaffirming your status as the primo number
> >one twit-extraordinaire on usenet.

>
> It's a well-known fact that black bears don't attack humans, except to
> defend their cubs. Do you think it was offended by the color of his
> outfit?!


That bear was probably startled and surprised by the combination of
dogs and human on bicycle. It made a panicked decision to attack
likely based on something it was tryinig to protect. It certainly
does not sound like it was looking for trouble, and it probably would
make some effort to avoid this situation again (bears don't like
confrontation any more than you do).

Black bears, like most bears, will also attack a human (or other
possible competitor) to defend a cache of food, be it natural or
derived from human sources. Nonetheless, in most locations, including
national parks, authorities will rarely, if ever, remove a bear for
defending either cubs or food caches. The reasoning, which I believe
to be valid, is that, unless the bear attacks because he/she
specifically identifies humans as a food source (either because they
carry food or because they could *be* food), the bear then represents
no further danger beyond what would normally be expected. Bears who
behave in this way do not typically repeat attacks, and the original
attack can be boiled down to either stupid human tricks or unfortunate
happenstance. In this case, it counds like the latter occurred, and
it would have been unpreventable.

In this case, Mike is right. Unless there is some evidence that the
bear intended to make a meal of the biker, and based on the story it
certainly does not sound like it, there is no compelling reason to
kill it. It should be left alone. Dogs should be leashed, ample
signs should warn of bear presence, and bikers should do so at their
own risk.

Bruce Jensen
 
Y

y_p_w

Guest
On Sep 3, 11:00 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:00:50 -0600, "Ist-e Mundus, Furia bundus"
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]
> >> What crime did the bear commit, that it deserves to die?! She was only
> >> defending her cubs!

>
> >> Mike

>
> >>http://www.komotv.com/news/9538012.html:

>
> >> Black bear attacks bicyclist in park

>
> >> Story Published: Sep 2, 2007 at 4:14 PM PDT

>
> >> Story Updated: Sep 3, 2007 at 7:33 AM PDT

>
> >> By KOMO Staff

>
> >> Watch the story
> >> NEAR OLLALA, Wash. -- A man was attacked by a bear while mountain
> >> biking in the Banner Forest Heritage Park just before noon on Sunday,
> >> according to South Kitsap Fire and Rescue officials.

>
> >> Spokesman Ron Powers said a 51-year-old Port Orchard man was biking
> >> with his two dogs alongside him when the dogs ran ahead and around the
> >> bend, then started barking fiercely. The man turned the bend and saw
> >> the dogs were barking at a bear.

>
> >> Powers said the bear immediately charged at the man, who tried to use
> >> his bike to shield himself from the animal. But the bear managed to
> >> injure the man's arm, back, neck and ear before he was able to get
> >> back on his bike and ride away.

>
> >> Down the path, the injured man ran into other mountain bikers, who
> >> called 911.

>
> >> The man was conscious and alert when he was taken to St. Joseph
> >> Medical Center in Tacoma. The unidentified man is in serious
> >> condition, but is expected to recover.

>
> >> One of the man's dogs is still missing. It is not known whether the
> >> dog suffered injuries during the attack. The second dog is said to be
> >> OK.

>
> >> Officials evacuated the park and shut it down in order to search for
> >> the bear. Powers said if the bear is found, officials plan to kill it.
> >> Officials said crews will search through the night until the bear is
> >> found.

>
> >> Another bicyclist who was at the park on Sunday told authorities he
> >> saw mother bear and two cubs while riding on the trail.

>
> >> Powers said Sunday's attack is a freak accident, stating black bears
> >> rarely attack humans and, unless provoked or threatened, will run
> >> away. The man or the dogs may have appeared as a threat to the bear,
> >> who may have been protecting her cubs, Powers said.

>
> >> Area resident Teri Nelson agrees, while bears are not uncommon at the
> >> park, she didn't expect them to be aggressive.

>
> >> "Attacking somebody would make me have second thoughts about walking
> >> through this forest by myself," she said. "It's pretty scary."
> >> --
> >> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> >> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> >> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

>
> >> Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
> >> fond of!

>
> >How do you know it was defending cubs? The article only says "may have
> >been", and that there was a report of a bear with two cubs. No guarantee it
> >was the same bear as "bears are not uncommon at the park". There you go
> >leaping to conclusions again, reaffirming your status as the primo number
> >one twit-extraordinaire on usenet.

>
> It's a well-known fact that black bears don't attack humans, except to
> defend their cubs. Do you think it was offended by the color of his
> outfit?!


WTF?

Tell that to the family in Utah whose 11 year old was dragged out of
their tent and killed in June by a male black bear. Male black bears
aren't known for being protective of their cubs. Some are known to
attack cubs, which could include their own young.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/19/national/main2947472.shtml

Here's a California DFG listing of black bear attacks in California.
Fortunately there's never been a reported human fatality from a black
bear attack in California or Nevada.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/news/issues/bear/bear_incidents.html

Black bear attacks on humans are extremely rare. However - when
attacks do happen, it's for far more reasons than simply defending
cubs. NPS rangers have told me that more often than not, a black bear
sow will run away when scared off by humans. In that case, they'll
typically come back for their cubs later. That doesn't mean caution
isn't warranted around a black bear sow with cubs, because they have
been known to attack.

I'd be far more concerned about a grizzly bear sow defending its cubs.

http://www.bear.org/Black/Articles/Watchable_Wildlife.html

"Unlike grizzly bear mothers, black bear mothers seldom attack people
in defense of cubs. Black bear mothers typically bluff or retreat.
Researchers who routinely capture cubs by chasing them up trees have
not been attacked even when they have held the screaming cubs. The
ferocity of mother black bears is one of the biggest misconceptions
about this species."
 
B

Bruce Jensen

Guest
On Sep 4, 1:46 pm, y_p_w <[email protected]> wrote:

> WTF?
>
> Tell that to the family in Utah whose 11 year old was dragged out of
> their tent and killed in June by a male black bear. Male black bears
> aren't known for being protective of their cubs. Some are known to
> attack cubs, which could include their own young.


Yeah, but we are not at this point talking specfiically about a male
or female bear. There is a reasonable chance that the bear in
question was a female with cubs, based on other testimony. At the
very least, it was surprised.

The Utah incident above also involved some questionable human-food
handling, IIRC.

This is not a challenge, but simply an effort to learn - If you have a
reference for a male bear attacking its own offspring, I would like to
see it. My reading has suggested that males will attempt to kill
other children, but not his own.

> Black bear attacks on humans are extremely rare. However - when
> attacks do happen, it's for far more reasons than simply defending
> cubs. NPS rangers have told me that more often than not, a black bear
> sow will run away when scared off by humans. In that case, they'll
> typically come back for their cubs later. That doesn't mean caution
> isn't warranted around a black bear sow with cubs, because they have
> been known to attack.


To reiterate, this bear suddenly found itself confronted with two
screaming dogs and a rapidly moving cyclist. That is not what a
typical hiker would present to a bear, with or without cubs.

> I'd be far more concerned about a grizzly bear sow defending its cubs.


No doubt, this is cause for great caution. An attack by a mother bear
is still no excuse for killing the bear. In fact, this very year, an
attack on Jim Cole up at Yellowstone by a mom bear protecting her
baby(s) in an area where people generally if not specifically move
about was treated by simply leaving the bears alone. Cole, OTOH, had
a history of pestering bears to the point of provoking violent
reactions.

NPS will typically only remove bears if they (1) have found humans to
be a reliable source of food and act on that finding, or (2) they have
killed a human and have thus probably found that people taste good.
It is likely that neither one of these things occured here.

> http://www.bear.org/Black/Articles/Watchable_Wildlife.html
>
> "Unlike grizzly bear mothers, black bear mothers seldom attack people
> in defense of cubs. Black bear mothers typically bluff or retreat.
> Researchers who routinely capture cubs by chasing them up trees have
> not been attacked even when they have held the screaming cubs. The
> ferocity of mother black bears is one of the biggest misconceptions
> about this species."- Hide quoted text -


Maybe true, but I'd hate to test this nugget. Nevertheless, a
surprised bear is a dangerous bear. And, the bear is typically only
dangerous until after the surprise has passed.
 
Y

y_p_w

Guest
On Sep 4, 2:29 pm, Bruce Jensen <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sep 4, 1:46 pm, y_p_w <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > WTF?

>
> > Tell that to the family in Utah whose 11 year old was dragged out of
> > their tent and killed in June by a male black bear. Male black bears
> > aren't known for being protective of their cubs. Some are known to
> > attack cubs, which could include their own young.

>
> Yeah, but we are not at this point talking specfiically about a male
> or female bear. There is a reasonable chance that the bear in
> question was a female with cubs, based on other testimony. At the
> very least, it was surprised.
>
> The Utah incident above also involved some questionable human-food
> handling, IIRC.


Sure. However - the attack was for a different reason than a black
bear sow defending its cubs. Sometimes it's keeping an unclean camp
or other attractant. I just disagree with Vandeman's ill-informed
blanket statement that there's only one reason why a black bear would
attack a human.

> This is not a challenge, but simply an effort to learn - If you have a
> reference for a male bear attacking its own offspring, I would like to
> see it. My reading has suggested that males will attempt to kill
> other children, but not his own.


Most of the references I've read are that a black bear male mates
within a few days, then goes off solo without ever being able to
identify its own cubs.

> > Black bear attacks on humans are extremely rare. However - when
> > attacks do happen, it's for far more reasons than simply defending
> > cubs. NPS rangers have told me that more often than not, a black bear
> > sow will run away when scared off by humans. In that case, they'll
> > typically come back for their cubs later. That doesn't mean caution
> > isn't warranted around a black bear sow with cubs, because they have
> > been known to attack.

>
> To reiterate, this bear suddenly found itself confronted with two
> screaming dogs and a rapidly moving cyclist. That is not what a
> typical hiker would present to a bear, with or without cubs.


That could freak out a bear. I have heard of freak defensive attacks
when a bear was surprised. However - it could be a male, female, or
juvenile. Again - black bear attacks happen for more reasons than
just a sow defending cubs.

> > I'd be far more concerned about a grizzly bear sow defending its cubs.

>
> No doubt, this is cause for great caution. An attack by a mother bear
> is still no excuse for killing the bear. In fact, this very year, an
> attack on Jim Cole up at Yellowstone by a mom bear protecting her
> baby(s) in an area where people generally if not specifically move
> about was treated by simply leaving the bears alone. Cole, OTOH, had
> a history of pestering bears to the point of provoking violent
> reactions.
>
> NPS will typically only remove bears if they (1) have found humans to
> be a reliable source of food and act on that finding, or (2) they have
> killed a human and have thus probably found that people taste good.
> It is likely that neither one of these things occured here.
>
> >http://www.bear.org/Black/Articles/Watchable_Wildlife.html

>
> > "Unlike grizzly bear mothers, black bear mothers seldom attack people
> > in defense of cubs. Black bear mothers typically bluff or retreat.
> > Researchers who routinely capture cubs by chasing them up trees have
> > not been attacked even when they have held the screaming cubs. The
> > ferocity of mother black bears is one of the biggest misconceptions
> > about this species."- Hide quoted text -

>
> Maybe true, but I'd hate to test this nugget. Nevertheless, a
> surprised bear is a dangerous bear. And, the bear is typically only
> dangerous until after the surprise has passed.


I saw a black bear sow with cubs. It sent one cub up a tree next to
the trail, at which point I backed off on the off-chance that it
aggressively defended its young. I was certainly cautious, with a
good deal of respect that it could cause serious injury if so
inclined. It was after I reported my sighting that I heard from
rangers/naturalists/etc that black bear sows typically retreat from
their cubs when scared off. I've also heard of first-hand reports of
someone chasing off a black bear sow with young.

http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rcbears0jo9.jpg
 
B

Bruce in Alaska

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:

> It's a well-known fact that black bears don't attack humans, except to
> defend their cubs. Do you think it was offended by the color of his
> outfit?!


Nope, the BEAR was Offended by the Riders TWO DOGS, that were running
loose, out in front of him. The BEAR can't caught the DOGS, and the
NEXT thing it encountered was the Rider, so it MUNCHed HIM... Nothing
like encountering a ****** Off BEAR......

Bruce in alaska
--
add a <2> before @
 
B

Bruce Jensen

Guest
On Sep 4, 2:46 pm, y_p_w <[email protected]> wrote:

> I saw a black bear sow with cubs. It sent one cub up a tree next to
> the trail, at which point I backed off on the off-chance that it
> aggressively defended its young. I was certainly cautious, with a
> good deal of respect that it could cause serious injury if so
> inclined. It was after I reported my sighting that I heard from
> rangers/naturalists/etc that black bear sows typically retreat from
> their cubs when scared off. I've also heard of first-hand reports of
> someone chasing off a black bear sow with young.


My bro-in-law and I have seen numerous sows with cubs on trails, and
in the backcountry at least, typically the sow will become alert, and
then take her children away from us as fast as she can go. I agree,
the chance of a mom bear with cubs attacking is unlikely, as long as a
reasonable buffer or escape route is present.

In the front country, this behavior seems to depend alot more on how
accustomed to humans the bears are - haivng said that, I have never
personally seen aggression - more likely, tolerance or insouciance. I
have not seen a mother bear in a tight spot ever, so I can't directly
comment on that situation - but that could be what happened,
especially if she was surprised.
 
B

Bruce Jensen

Guest
On Sep 4, 2:54 pm, Bruce in Alaska <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > It's a well-known fact that black bears don't attack humans, except to
> > defend their cubs. Do you think it was offended by the color of his
> > outfit?!

>
> Nope, the BEAR was Offended by the Riders TWO DOGS, that were running
> loose, out in front of him. The BEAR can't caught the DOGS, and the
> NEXT thing it encountered was the Rider, so it MUNCHed HIM... Nothing
> like encountering a ****** Off BEAR......
>
> Bruce in alaska
> --
> add a <2> before @


I would not doubt this to be true.
 
Y

y_p_w

Guest
On Sep 4, 3:18 pm, Bruce Jensen <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sep 4, 2:46 pm, y_p_w <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I saw a black bear sow with cubs. It sent one cub up a tree next to
> > the trail, at which point I backed off on the off-chance that it
> > aggressively defended its young. I was certainly cautious, with a
> > good deal of respect that it could cause serious injury if so
> > inclined. It was after I reported my sighting that I heard from
> > rangers/naturalists/etc that black bear sows typically retreat from
> > their cubs when scared off. I've also heard of first-hand reports of
> > someone chasing off a black bear sow with young.

>
> My bro-in-law and I have seen numerous sows with cubs on trails, and
> in the backcountry at least, typically the sow will become alert, and
> then take her children away from us as fast as she can go. I agree,
> the chance of a mom bear with cubs attacking is unlikely, as long as a
> reasonable buffer or escape route is present.


I'm sure it noticed me. Once I backed off and one cub was able to
climb down, it didn't really seem all that interested in me. I got
that first photo before I realized there was another cub up a tree.
After I ascertained that it wasn't worried about my presence, I took
several photos over about three minutes. I could have sworn it
intentionally posed for this one ("Here - get my good side!").

http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rcbears1tr1.jpg

> In the front country, this behavior seems to depend alot more on how
> accustomed to humans the bears are - haivng said that, I have never
> personally seen aggression - more likely, tolerance or insouciance. I
> have not seen a mother bear in a tight spot ever, so I can't directly
> comment on that situation - but that could be what happened,
> especially if she was surprised.


I realize the important thing is to never corner a bear into a place
where it can only get out by me. I was in the woods where there were
plenty of escape routes.
 
I

Ist-e Mundus, Furia bundus

Guest
"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:00:50 -0600, "Ist-e Mundus, Furia bundus"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]
>>> What crime did the bear commit, that it deserves to die?! She was only
>>> defending her cubs!
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.komotv.com/news/9538012.html:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Black bear attacks bicyclist in park
>>>
>>> Story Published: Sep 2, 2007 at 4:14 PM PDT
>>>
>>> Story Updated: Sep 3, 2007 at 7:33 AM PDT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> By KOMO Staff
>>>
>>> Watch the story
>>> NEAR OLLALA, Wash. -- A man was attacked by a bear while mountain
>>> biking in the Banner Forest Heritage Park just before noon on Sunday,
>>> according to South Kitsap Fire and Rescue officials.
>>>
>>> Spokesman Ron Powers said a 51-year-old Port Orchard man was biking
>>> with his two dogs alongside him when the dogs ran ahead and around the
>>> bend, then started barking fiercely. The man turned the bend and saw
>>> the dogs were barking at a bear.
>>>
>>> Powers said the bear immediately charged at the man, who tried to use
>>> his bike to shield himself from the animal. But the bear managed to
>>> injure the man's arm, back, neck and ear before he was able to get
>>> back on his bike and ride away.
>>>
>>> Down the path, the injured man ran into other mountain bikers, who
>>> called 911.
>>>
>>> The man was conscious and alert when he was taken to St. Joseph
>>> Medical Center in Tacoma. The unidentified man is in serious
>>> condition, but is expected to recover.
>>>
>>> One of the man's dogs is still missing. It is not known whether the
>>> dog suffered injuries during the attack. The second dog is said to be
>>> OK.
>>>
>>> Officials evacuated the park and shut it down in order to search for
>>> the bear. Powers said if the bear is found, officials plan to kill it.
>>> Officials said crews will search through the night until the bear is
>>> found.
>>>
>>> Another bicyclist who was at the park on Sunday told authorities he
>>> saw mother bear and two cubs while riding on the trail.
>>>
>>> Powers said Sunday's attack is a freak accident, stating black bears
>>> rarely attack humans and, unless provoked or threatened, will run
>>> away. The man or the dogs may have appeared as a threat to the bear,
>>> who may have been protecting her cubs, Powers said.
>>>
>>> Area resident Teri Nelson agrees, while bears are not uncommon at the
>>> park, she didn't expect them to be aggressive.
>>>
>>> "Attacking somebody would make me have second thoughts about walking
>>> through this forest by myself," she said. "It's pretty scary."
>>> --
>>> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
>>> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
>>> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>>>
>>> Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
>>> fond of!
>>>

>>
>>How do you know it was defending cubs? The article only says "may have
>>been", and that there was a report of a bear with two cubs. No guarantee
>>it
>>was the same bear as "bears are not uncommon at the park". There you go
>>leaping to conclusions again, reaffirming your status as the primo number
>>one twit-extraordinaire on usenet.

>
> It's a well-known fact that black bears don't attack humans, except to
> defend their cubs. Do you think it was offended by the color of his
> outfit?!
> --

You're joking, right? Well known fact? I've rarely heard such a sweeping
and baseless statement, but I should expect it from you. Black bears are
more unpredictable than grizzlies, and more likely to attack without
provocation. That is not to say there was no provocation in this incident,
intentional or otherwise. To say "It's a well-known fact that black bears
don't attack humans, except to
defend their cubs." is absolute stupidity and is a classic display of
your near complete ignorance.
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 13:46:59 -0700, y_p_w <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sep 3, 11:00 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:00:50 -0600, "Ist-e Mundus, Furia bundus"
>>
>>
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]
>> >> What crime did the bear commit, that it deserves to die?! She was only
>> >> defending her cubs!

>>
>> >> Mike

>>
>> >>http://www.komotv.com/news/9538012.html:

>>
>> >> Black bear attacks bicyclist in park

>>
>> >> Story Published: Sep 2, 2007 at 4:14 PM PDT

>>
>> >> Story Updated: Sep 3, 2007 at 7:33 AM PDT

>>
>> >> By KOMO Staff

>>
>> >> Watch the story
>> >> NEAR OLLALA, Wash. -- A man was attacked by a bear while mountain
>> >> biking in the Banner Forest Heritage Park just before noon on Sunday,
>> >> according to South Kitsap Fire and Rescue officials.

>>
>> >> Spokesman Ron Powers said a 51-year-old Port Orchard man was biking
>> >> with his two dogs alongside him when the dogs ran ahead and around the
>> >> bend, then started barking fiercely. The man turned the bend and saw
>> >> the dogs were barking at a bear.

>>
>> >> Powers said the bear immediately charged at the man, who tried to use
>> >> his bike to shield himself from the animal. But the bear managed to
>> >> injure the man's arm, back, neck and ear before he was able to get
>> >> back on his bike and ride away.

>>
>> >> Down the path, the injured man ran into other mountain bikers, who
>> >> called 911.

>>
>> >> The man was conscious and alert when he was taken to St. Joseph
>> >> Medical Center in Tacoma. The unidentified man is in serious
>> >> condition, but is expected to recover.

>>
>> >> One of the man's dogs is still missing. It is not known whether the
>> >> dog suffered injuries during the attack. The second dog is said to be
>> >> OK.

>>
>> >> Officials evacuated the park and shut it down in order to search for
>> >> the bear. Powers said if the bear is found, officials plan to kill it.
>> >> Officials said crews will search through the night until the bear is
>> >> found.

>>
>> >> Another bicyclist who was at the park on Sunday told authorities he
>> >> saw mother bear and two cubs while riding on the trail.

>>
>> >> Powers said Sunday's attack is a freak accident, stating black bears
>> >> rarely attack humans and, unless provoked or threatened, will run
>> >> away. The man or the dogs may have appeared as a threat to the bear,
>> >> who may have been protecting her cubs, Powers said.

>>
>> >> Area resident Teri Nelson agrees, while bears are not uncommon at the
>> >> park, she didn't expect them to be aggressive.

>>
>> >> "Attacking somebody would make me have second thoughts about walking
>> >> through this forest by myself," she said. "It's pretty scary."
>> >> --
>> >> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
>> >> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
>> >> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

>>
>> >> Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
>> >> fond of!

>>
>> >How do you know it was defending cubs? The article only says "may have
>> >been", and that there was a report of a bear with two cubs. No guarantee it
>> >was the same bear as "bears are not uncommon at the park". There you go
>> >leaping to conclusions again, reaffirming your status as the primo number
>> >one twit-extraordinaire on usenet.

>>
>> It's a well-known fact that black bears don't attack humans, except to
>> defend their cubs. Do you think it was offended by the color of his
>> outfit?!

>
>WTF?
>
>Tell that to the family in Utah whose 11 year old was dragged out of
>their tent and killed in June by a male black bear.


He was probably eating in bed..

Male black bears
>aren't known for being protective of their cubs. Some are known to
>attack cubs, which could include their own young.
>
>http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/19/national/main2947472.shtml
>
>Here's a California DFG listing of black bear attacks in California.
>Fortunately there's never been a reported human fatality from a black
>bear attack in California or Nevada.
>
>http://www.dfg.ca.gov/news/issues/bear/bear_incidents.html
>
>Black bear attacks on humans are extremely rare. However - when
>attacks do happen, it's for far more reasons than simply defending
>cubs. NPS rangers have told me that more often than not, a black bear
>sow will run away when scared off by humans. In that case, they'll
>typically come back for their cubs later. That doesn't mean caution
>isn't warranted around a black bear sow with cubs, because they have
>been known to attack.
>
>I'd be far more concerned about a grizzly bear sow defending its cubs.
>
>http://www.bear.org/Black/Articles/Watchable_Wildlife.html
>
>"Unlike grizzly bear mothers, black bear mothers seldom attack people
>in defense of cubs. Black bear mothers typically bluff or retreat.
>Researchers who routinely capture cubs by chasing them up trees have
>not been attacked even when they have held the screaming cubs. The
>ferocity of mother black bears is one of the biggest misconceptions
>about this species."

--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On Tue, 4 Sep 2007 21:43:11 -0600, "Ist-e Mundus, Furia bundus"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:00:50 -0600, "Ist-e Mundus, Furia bundus"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]
>>>> What crime did the bear commit, that it deserves to die?! She was only
>>>> defending her cubs!
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.komotv.com/news/9538012.html:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Black bear attacks bicyclist in park
>>>>
>>>> Story Published: Sep 2, 2007 at 4:14 PM PDT
>>>>
>>>> Story Updated: Sep 3, 2007 at 7:33 AM PDT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> By KOMO Staff
>>>>
>>>> Watch the story
>>>> NEAR OLLALA, Wash. -- A man was attacked by a bear while mountain
>>>> biking in the Banner Forest Heritage Park just before noon on Sunday,
>>>> according to South Kitsap Fire and Rescue officials.
>>>>
>>>> Spokesman Ron Powers said a 51-year-old Port Orchard man was biking
>>>> with his two dogs alongside him when the dogs ran ahead and around the
>>>> bend, then started barking fiercely. The man turned the bend and saw
>>>> the dogs were barking at a bear.
>>>>
>>>> Powers said the bear immediately charged at the man, who tried to use
>>>> his bike to shield himself from the animal. But the bear managed to
>>>> injure the man's arm, back, neck and ear before he was able to get
>>>> back on his bike and ride away.
>>>>
>>>> Down the path, the injured man ran into other mountain bikers, who
>>>> called 911.
>>>>
>>>> The man was conscious and alert when he was taken to St. Joseph
>>>> Medical Center in Tacoma. The unidentified man is in serious
>>>> condition, but is expected to recover.
>>>>
>>>> One of the man's dogs is still missing. It is not known whether the
>>>> dog suffered injuries during the attack. The second dog is said to be
>>>> OK.
>>>>
>>>> Officials evacuated the park and shut it down in order to search for
>>>> the bear. Powers said if the bear is found, officials plan to kill it.
>>>> Officials said crews will search through the night until the bear is
>>>> found.
>>>>
>>>> Another bicyclist who was at the park on Sunday told authorities he
>>>> saw mother bear and two cubs while riding on the trail.
>>>>
>>>> Powers said Sunday's attack is a freak accident, stating black bears
>>>> rarely attack humans and, unless provoked or threatened, will run
>>>> away. The man or the dogs may have appeared as a threat to the bear,
>>>> who may have been protecting her cubs, Powers said.
>>>>
>>>> Area resident Teri Nelson agrees, while bears are not uncommon at the
>>>> park, she didn't expect them to be aggressive.
>>>>
>>>> "Attacking somebody would make me have second thoughts about walking
>>>> through this forest by myself," she said. "It's pretty scary."
>>>> --
>>>> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
>>>> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
>>>> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>>>>
>>>> Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
>>>> fond of!
>>>>
>>>
>>>How do you know it was defending cubs? The article only says "may have
>>>been", and that there was a report of a bear with two cubs. No guarantee
>>>it
>>>was the same bear as "bears are not uncommon at the park". There you go
>>>leaping to conclusions again, reaffirming your status as the primo number
>>>one twit-extraordinaire on usenet.

>>
>> It's a well-known fact that black bears don't attack humans, except to
>> defend their cubs. Do you think it was offended by the color of his
>> outfit?!
>> --

> You're joking, right? Well known fact? I've rarely heard such a sweeping
>and baseless statement, but I should expect it from you. Black bears are
>more unpredictable than grizzlies, and more likely to attack without
>provocation. That is not to say there was no provocation in this incident,
>intentional or otherwise. To say "It's a well-known fact that black bears
>don't attack humans, except to
> defend their cubs." is absolute stupidity and is a classic display of
>your near complete ignorance.


I notice that you can't given even ONE other reason.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:46:48 -0700, y_p_w <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sep 4, 2:29 pm, Bruce Jensen <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sep 4, 1:46 pm, y_p_w <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > WTF?

>>
>> > Tell that to the family in Utah whose 11 year old was dragged out of
>> > their tent and killed in June by a male black bear. Male black bears
>> > aren't known for being protective of their cubs. Some are known to
>> > attack cubs, which could include their own young.

>>
>> Yeah, but we are not at this point talking specfiically about a male
>> or female bear. There is a reasonable chance that the bear in
>> question was a female with cubs, based on other testimony. At the
>> very least, it was surprised.
>>
>> The Utah incident above also involved some questionable human-food
>> handling, IIRC.

>
>Sure. However - the attack was for a different reason than a black
>bear sow defending its cubs.


I don't know that that was an "attack". It was probably simply
following the smell of food.

I notice that you haven't offered any other reason for a black bear to
attack a human, even though you say there are such reasons.

Sometimes it's keeping an unclean camp
>or other attractant. I just disagree with Vandeman's ill-informed
>blanket statement that there's only one reason why a black bear would
>attack a human.
>
>> This is not a challenge, but simply an effort to learn - If you have a
>> reference for a male bear attacking its own offspring, I would like to
>> see it. My reading has suggested that males will attempt to kill
>> other children, but not his own.

>
>Most of the references I've read are that a black bear male mates
>within a few days, then goes off solo without ever being able to
>identify its own cubs.
>
>> > Black bear attacks on humans are extremely rare. However - when
>> > attacks do happen, it's for far more reasons than simply defending
>> > cubs. NPS rangers have told me that more often than not, a black bear
>> > sow will run away when scared off by humans. In that case, they'll
>> > typically come back for their cubs later. That doesn't mean caution
>> > isn't warranted around a black bear sow with cubs, because they have
>> > been known to attack.

>>
>> To reiterate, this bear suddenly found itself confronted with two
>> screaming dogs and a rapidly moving cyclist. That is not what a
>> typical hiker would present to a bear, with or without cubs.

>
>That could freak out a bear. I have heard of freak defensive attacks
>when a bear was surprised. However - it could be a male, female, or
>juvenile. Again - black bear attacks happen for more reasons than
>just a sow defending cubs.
>
>> > I'd be far more concerned about a grizzly bear sow defending its cubs.

>>
>> No doubt, this is cause for great caution. An attack by a mother bear
>> is still no excuse for killing the bear. In fact, this very year, an
>> attack on Jim Cole up at Yellowstone by a mom bear protecting her
>> baby(s) in an area where people generally if not specifically move
>> about was treated by simply leaving the bears alone. Cole, OTOH, had
>> a history of pestering bears to the point of provoking violent
>> reactions.
>>
>> NPS will typically only remove bears if they (1) have found humans to
>> be a reliable source of food and act on that finding, or (2) they have
>> killed a human and have thus probably found that people taste good.
>> It is likely that neither one of these things occured here.
>>
>> >http://www.bear.org/Black/Articles/Watchable_Wildlife.html

>>
>> > "Unlike grizzly bear mothers, black bear mothers seldom attack people
>> > in defense of cubs. Black bear mothers typically bluff or retreat.
>> > Researchers who routinely capture cubs by chasing them up trees have
>> > not been attacked even when they have held the screaming cubs. The
>> > ferocity of mother black bears is one of the biggest misconceptions
>> > about this species."- Hide quoted text -

>>
>> Maybe true, but I'd hate to test this nugget. Nevertheless, a
>> surprised bear is a dangerous bear. And, the bear is typically only
>> dangerous until after the surprise has passed.

>
>I saw a black bear sow with cubs. It sent one cub up a tree next to
>the trail, at which point I backed off on the off-chance that it
>aggressively defended its young. I was certainly cautious, with a
>good deal of respect that it could cause serious injury if so
>inclined. It was after I reported my sighting that I heard from
>rangers/naturalists/etc that black bear sows typically retreat from
>their cubs when scared off. I've also heard of first-hand reports of
>someone chasing off a black bear sow with young.
>
>http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rcbears0jo9.jpg

--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
J

Jeff Strickland

Guest
Would you have posted this if the story was about a hiker and his two dogs
walking along the trail. The dogs ran ahead and started barking, the hiker
then came around the turn ...

You are scum of the lowest form -- actually, you give real scum a bad name.
You sit at home and giggle like a little girl when your search engine finds
this ****.
 
Y

y_p_w

Guest
On Sep 4, 9:19 pm, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:46:48 -0700,y_p_w<[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Sep 4, 2:29 pm, Bruce Jensen <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On Sep 4, 1:46 pm,y_p_w<[email protected]> wrote:

>
> >> > WTF?

>
> >> > Tell that to the family in Utah whose 11 year old was dragged out of
> >> > their tent and killed in June by a male black bear. Male black bears
> >> > aren't known for being protective of their cubs. Some are known to
> >> > attack cubs, which could include their own young.

>
> >> Yeah, but we are not at this point talking specfiically about a male
> >> or female bear. There is a reasonable chance that the bear in
> >> question was a female with cubs, based on other testimony. At the
> >> very least, it was surprised.

>
> >> The Utah incident above also involved some questionable human-food
> >> handling, IIRC.

>
> >Sure. However - the attack was for a different reason than a black
> >bear sow defending its cubs.

>
> I don't know that that was an "attack". It was probably simply
> following the smell of food.


Dragging an 11 year old 400 yards from a tent was an attack. Possibly
one that could have been avoided, but still an attack. Bears have
been known to claw/bite people if they think they can get food.

> I notice that you haven't offered any other reason for a black bear to
> attack a human, even though you say there are such reasons.


Are you freaking kidding me? They'll attack when startled. I've read
of numerous incidents where someone was clawed or bitten when a bear
was surprised by a person while it was going through garbage/food. My
favorite stories are about idiots feeding bears that just turned on
them. Some attacks have been seemly random, like the Cherokee
National Forest mauling in 2006. That was just a family on the trail,
attacked by a male bear. It was also exceedingly rare.

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_87516.asp

I posted this earlier, but I guess it's not valid if it doesn't
validate your ill-advised statements:

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/news/issues/bear/bear_incidents.html

"Los Angeles County, July 2003 - A male hiker was knocked down by a
bear at a remote campsite along the Pacific Crest Trail in the Angeles
National Forest. The hiker had just reached the camp, which was empty,
dropped his pack on a picnic table, and was looking for a place to
hang his food. As he walked back toward the pack, he heard a noise
behind him. As he turned he was knocked to the ground by a bear. After
standing over him for a few seconds, the bear grabbed the backpack and
began dragging it off. The man shouted at the bear and threw rocks
until the bear finally retreated without the backpack. The hiker
received only minor bruises and was not seriously hurt.

Los Angeles County, July 2001 - A woman was bitten on the arm by a
bear at a county-run tree farm near La Verne. The bear, which was
earlier spotted climbing on a nearby trash can, reportedly walked up
to the woman while she was seated at a picnic table and bit her on the
arm. The woman was treated at a hospital for puncture wounds. The bear
was later shot and killed by Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies.
The bear weighed approximately 85 pounds and was estimated at one to
two years of age.

Trinity County, May 1986 - A 35-year old man was attacked at around 3
a.m. while camping in a tent in the Trinity Alps Wilderness. The
victim felt that he was caught in the middle of a fight between two
boars when one bear attacked him in his tent. The bear left when the
victim hit the bear with a tentpole. Two bears then returned and acted
aggressively toward each another before they finally left. The victim
sustained several puncture wounds to his shoulder and lacerations to
the back of his head.

Siskiyou County, September 1986 - A long-time resident of a small
rural community was injured while feeding a bear at his residence. The
victim had been feeding bears at this location for more than 30
years."
 
B

Bruce in Alaska

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Bruce Jensen <[email protected]> wrote:

> This is not a challenge, but simply an effort to learn - If you have a
> reference for a male bear attacking its own offspring, I would like to
> see it. My reading has suggested that males will attempt to kill
> other children, but not his own.


Since Male Bear do NOT Hybernate, (Den up) with Female Bears after
there second winter, just how does a Male Bear know if another
Bear is its offspring? Male and Female Bears only come together
during Mating, and otherwise spend most of their time singley, after
leaving MOM, in the Spring of their Second Year. Yearling cubs
ARE a Food Source for Black Bears, if they should come across them in
late Fall. (Just before Denning Up for the winter) The extra Fat
Content is very welcome as a Nitie Nite Snack, before the long sleep.
We had a Sow, Shot & Killed (Long Sad Tale - Picture of the Three, on my
Website - www.99850.net) here last Fall, that had three cubs. All were
eaten by other Black Bears within 2 weeks of moms demise. Just Nature
doing it's thing......


Bruce in alaska
--
add a <2> before @
 
Mike, your ignorance of wildlife and factless statements become irritating.
While black bear attacks on humans are rather rare, as a carnivore, they can
and do attack humans from time to time. The probability of an attack is
measured in the 1 to 400 million or more (given the number of recreational
visitor days a year in black bear country). The motivation for the attack
can range from protecting cubs (and yes I would suggest this is one of the
more common reasons), to being startled or surprised by human (usually
hikers on a trail) appearing in their path, to viewing humans as a
competitor (i.e., protecting a food source) to even viewing humans in very
rare cases as a form of food (what appears to have happen in Utah). The
bear in Utah had apparently bothered someone in a tent the previous day and
the bear did not stumble into the tent looking for food, sliced the tent
open and took the boy (much as they do fawns) off into the brush to eat him.
I can provide reasonable assurance, he was not frisking the boy for a PB&J,
but actually viewed him as food. We are left with a great deal of
uncertainty as to why this particular bear saw this boy in this case as food
as these types of events are rare and therefore we lack any statistical
reason to account for it. The crazy bear theory is as good as any. Some
carnivores (as a species) are rather aggressive toward humans such as
leopards, tigers and African lions, while others only rarely cross that line
- black bears fall into the latter category.

While it is not unreasonable to querry the use the lethal option in this
case - keep in mind, Wildlife Services and timber companies are killing
thousands of bears a year for girdling trees, while sport hunters throughout
North America are killing several thousand more. In addition, state game
agencies in North America are killing several hundred more bears because of
bear-human conflicts. Placed into context, the loss of one bear from a mt.
biker pales when compared to the thousands upon thousands of bears killed
because of real or percieved conflicts with humans on foot.

ummm, do you think Mikey has lost all perceptive. Yeah.
 
F

Floyd L. Davidson

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
>Mike, your ignorance of wildlife and factless statements become irritating.


True.

>While black bear attacks on humans are rather rare, as a carnivore, they can
>and do attack humans from time to time. The probability of an attack is
>measured in the 1 to 400 million or more (given the number of recreational
>visitor days a year in black bear country).


I assume all of that is correct. I don't see it as
significant, one way or another. If you are in bear
country... *do* be concerned.

>The motivation for the attack
>can range from protecting cubs (and yes I would suggest this is one of the
>more common reasons),


That is common _only_ for brown bears.

>to being startled or surprised by human (usually
>hikers on a trail) appearing in their path,


Again, _only_ for brown bears.

>to viewing humans as a
>competitor (i.e., protecting a food source)


Brown bears!

Black bears aren't anything like brown bears.

>to even viewing humans in very
>rare cases as a form of food (what appears to have happen in Utah).


Most black bear attacks on humans are one of two things,
and the difference is only slight. First, they a
curious... and might just check you out to see if it is
possible to eat you. Second, the bear might already be
very intent on eating you.

In the first case, a curious bear might be easily scared
off, but it won't get bored and just leave. In the
second case, a bear intent on eating a human can be
*very* difficult to scare off. That is why a bear that
attacks a human, such as the one in Olalla WN, should be
tracked down and killed. If it attacks a human once
there is a good chance that it has learned that humans
are easy to attack. It *will* do it again.

Brown bears, conversely, only sometimes eat humans, but
not often. They are almost always protecting something
(food, cubs or themselves) when they attack.

The difference between black bears and brown bears is
significant, because if you play dead when attacked by a
brown bear it will almost always walk off and leave you
alive. A black bear it will probably eat you.

Play dead when attacked by a brown bear, but fight back
as aggressively as possible with a black bear.

>The
>bear in Utah had apparently bothered someone in a tent the previous day and
>the bear did not stumble into the tent looking for food, sliced the tent
>open and took the boy (much as they do fawns) off into the brush to eat him.


That is typical of a black bear's way of doing things.

> I can provide reasonable assurance, he was not frisking the boy for a PB&J,
>but actually viewed him as food. We are left with a great deal of
>uncertainty as to why this particular bear saw this boy in this case as food
>as these types of events are rare and therefore we lack any statistical
>reason to account for it. The crazy bear theory is as good as any. Some
>carnivores (as a species) are rather aggressive toward humans such as
>leopards, tigers and African lions, while others only rarely cross that line
>- black bears fall into the latter category.


That is incorrect. *Most* black bear attacks on humans
involve an intent to find food on the bear's part.

>While it is not unreasonable to querry the use the lethal option in this
>case - keep in mind, Wildlife Services and timber companies are killing
>thousands of bears a year for girdling trees, while sport hunters throughout
>North America are killing several thousand more. In addition, state game
>agencies in North America are killing several hundred more bears because of
>bear-human conflicts. Placed into context, the loss of one bear from a mt.
>biker pales when compared to the thousands upon thousands of bears killed
>because of real or percieved conflicts with humans on foot.


I don't know if your figures are correct (e.g.,
"thousands upon thousands"), but basically that is a
very valid perspective.

Incidentally, I can verify that there have *always* been
a lot of bears in the area of the Banner Road Forest
Part "near Olalla WN", or however they described it.

My mother lived on Banner Road from the 1930's through the
1990's, about 1 mile south of where that incident occurred.
Everyone around there should be well aware that there are
thousands of black bears in western Washington.

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) [email protected]
 

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