BNE: Cycling Mt Cootha in jeopardy

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by Donga, Feb 19, 2007.

  1. Donga

    Donga Guest

    Alert below, provided by Bicycle Queensland. If you are interested,
    there has been some discussion on the BikeQld email list (http://
    www.bikeqld.org.au/wiki/Email_list). This is an important one to give
    feedback to Brisbane City Council on (http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/
    BCC:BASE::pc=PC_76). The whole issue is a furphy - some of the
    employees of the TV stations on top of the hill don't appreciate being
    delayed briefly behind the many cyclists who train on both sides of
    the hill. Rather than get out of bed a minute earlier, they want to
    ban cyclists from virtually the only metro hill in Brisbane.

    Donga

    >From Bicycle Queensland Manager:


    It has come to our attention that residents near Mt Coot-tha have been
    advised that council is considering a plan to make part of the Mt Coot-
    tha circuit (Sir Samuel Griffith Drive) one way - in part stemming
    from complains from tv stations who occasionally get held-up behind
    training cyclists on the road.

    >From Simpsons Road to Channel 10 is the most likely section to be

    affected.

    If correct, we believe this will restrict cyclists from one of the
    most popular and best training circuits in Australia - riding Mt Coot-
    tha up and back the 'back' way.

    Further, as the state government has agreed to provide a $6 million
    link from Toowong (Anzac Park) to Mt Coot-tha Road, largely to
    accommodate the large numbers of cyclists who have to otherwise cross
    the extremely busy and hostile Centenary Highway and its multi-lane
    roundabouts, restricting cycling by making Sir Samuel Griffiths Drive
    partly one-way will waste some benefits of this project.

    Between 5 and 7pm tonight (Thursday 15 February) 'interviews' will be
    being conducted with people at the Summit Cafe on what they think of
    the proposed changes by project representatives.

    Riders who are heading up for their evening hill-ride might well want
    to look for these people doing the surveys and let them know their
    opinion on restricting traffic this way.
     
    Tags:


  2. Donga

    Donga Guest

    Further details from BCC: http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE::pc=PC_2478.
    Oh no! Cyclists have been forced onto the road! Woe is me!!

    Donga

    "
    A review of Sir Samuel Griffith Drive, Mt Coot-tha is being
    undertaken. The focus will be on safety for motorists, buses, cyclists
    and pedestrians.

    It will cover Sir Samuel Griffith Drive from the Mt Coot-tha summit,
    westward around Mt Coot-tha to the intersection with Simpsons Road at
    Bardon.

    Public consultation is available until 2 March 2007. The findings and
    the recommendations will be available by late March 2007.

    Project details

    This road largely operates as a two-lane roadway. Increased usage has
    led to:

    cyclists and walkers being forced onto the road
    vehicles needing to pass cyclists and walkers by crossing over the
    centre line of the road
    Brisbane City Council has three improvement options:

    Option 1 - One-way vehicle operation

    Change the operation of Sir Samuel Griffith Drive to one-way. This
    could be implemented in either direction (summit to Simpsons Road or
    Simpsons Road to the summit). It could be either two traffic lanes or
    one traffic lane and a pedestrian/bicycle lane.

    Option 2 - Two-way vehicle operation with passing bays

    Maintain the existing two-way operation and install passing bays at
    regular intervals. This would provide safe opportunities for vehicles
    to pass pedestrians and cyclists without crossing the centre of the
    road.

    Option 3 - Current operation with additional signs

    Maintain the current operation of the road and install safety and
    warning signs. This would help raise awareness of potential traffic,
    pedestrian and cyclist hazards.
    MORE
    "
     
  3. PiledHigher

    PiledHigher Guest

    Best form of defense is attack, if there is so much cyclist traffic
    start a petition to ban cars!
     
  4. Donga

    Donga Guest

    On Feb 19, 7:41 pm, "PiledHigher" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Best form of defense is attack, if there is so much cyclist traffic
    > start a petition to ban cars!


    .... or to get the TV stations turfed off the hill.
     
  5. Donga

    Donga Guest

    On Feb 19, 7:19 pm, "Donga" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Further details from BCC:http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE::pc=PC_2478.
    > Oh no! Cyclists have been forced onto the road! Woe is me!!
    >
    > Donga
    >
    > "
    > A review of Sir Samuel Griffith Drive, Mt Coot-tha is being
    > undertaken. The focus will be on safety for motorists, buses, cyclists
    > and pedestrians.
    >
    > It will cover Sir Samuel Griffith Drive from the Mt Coot-tha summit,
    > westward around Mt Coot-tha to the intersection with Simpsons Road at
    > Bardon.
    >
    > Public consultation is available until 2 March 2007. The findings and
    > the recommendations will be available by late March 2007.
    >
    > Project details
    >
    > This road largely operates as a two-lane roadway. Increased usage has
    > led to:
    >
    > cyclists and walkers being forced onto the road
    > vehicles needing to pass cyclists and walkers by crossing over the
    > centre line of the road
    > Brisbane City Council has three improvement options:
    >
    > Option 1 - One-way vehicle operation
    >
    > Change the operation of Sir Samuel Griffith Drive to one-way. This
    > could be implemented in either direction (summit to Simpsons Road or
    > Simpsons Road to the summit). It could be either two traffic lanes or
    > one traffic lane and a pedestrian/bicycle lane.
    >
    > Option 2 - Two-way vehicle operation with passing bays
    >
    > Maintain the existing two-way operation and install passing bays at
    > regular intervals. This would provide safe opportunities for vehicles
    > to pass pedestrians and cyclists without crossing the centre of the
    > road.
    >
    > Option 3 - Current operation with additional signs
    >
    > Maintain the current operation of the road and install safety and
    > warning signs. This would help raise awareness of potential traffic,
    > pedestrian and cyclist hazards.
    > MORE
    > "


    All cyclists: vote early, vote often (an old Queensland tradition!),
    for Option 3 in the online survey:

    http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE::pc=PC_2478

    The Mt Cootha circuit is Brisbane's favourite hill training course -
    check www.bikely.com for the variety of sessions in each direction of
    the loop.

    The pampered TV station staff who work on the hill and drive to work
    don't like having to wait for cyclists. It's only a few seconds until
    the way is clear, and only early in the morning, but heck, "We're
    celebrities, we should be able to drive fast". So they are putting the
    pressure on council to have the loop road made one-way. This would be
    a disaster for cycling in Brisbane.

    Mt Cootha is a key tourist destination in Brisbane, for cyclists and
    'normal' folk. So even if you don't live here, you are entitled to
    vote. Vote Option 3. Say you want the amenity of Mt Cootha for
    cycling, walking and running on the loop road preserved. Ask why the
    TV stations are still allowed to occupy public recreational nature
    reserve, in these days when technology would allow them to relocate
    off the mountain.

    Thanks for helping us out, where ever you are. Voting closes this
    Friday, so don't delay.

    Donga
     
  6. cfsmtb

    cfsmtb New Member

    Joined:
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    Would they trace the IP's on these surveys, or could it be classified a "postal vote"? ;)
     
  7. Donga

    Donga Guest

    On Feb 27, 9:11 am, cfsmtb <[email protected]
    mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
    > Donga Wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > Thanks for helping us out, where ever you are. Voting closes this
    > > Friday, so don't delay.

    >
    > Would they trace the IP's on these surveys, or could it be classified a
    > "postal vote"? ;)
    >
    > --
    > cfsmtb


    Doesn't matter - say you're from out of town but you like to visit
    Brisbane (and spend money).
     
  8. PiledHigher

    PiledHigher Guest

    On Feb 27, 10:11 am, cfsmtb <[email protected]
    mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
    > Donga Wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > Thanks for helping us out, where ever you are. Voting closes this
    > > Friday, so don't delay.

    >
    > Would they trace the IP's on these surveys, or could it be classified a
    > "postal vote"? ;)
    >
    > --
    > cfsmtb


    They are not tracing to stop you voting twice so I assume that they
    aren't doing anything very sophisticated!
     
  9. Bradley

    Bradley Guest

    I am happy to offer my vote, however why is option 3 preferred?

    I would have thought the best option is a one way single lane for motor
    vehicles and a two way lane for pedestrians and cyclists. This *could*
    be Option 1. The wording of Option 1 is ambiguous to me, do they mean
    one way for all traffic (motor vehicles, cyclists, and pedestrians) or
    one way for motor vehicles and two way for cyclists/pedestrians?

    Option 2 is to add passing lanes, this has to be better from a cyclist
    perspective than Option 3 which is to add signs only.

    I haven't ridden this rode (yet) however I live in Toowong and I am
    familiar with it.


    Donga wrote:
    > On Feb 19, 7:19 pm, "Donga" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Further details from BCC:http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE::pc=PC_2478.
    >> Oh no! Cyclists have been forced onto the road! Woe is me!!
    >>
    >> Donga
    >>
    >> "
    >> A review of Sir Samuel Griffith Drive, Mt Coot-tha is being
    >> undertaken. The focus will be on safety for motorists, buses, cyclists
    >> and pedestrians.
    >>
    >> It will cover Sir Samuel Griffith Drive from the Mt Coot-tha summit,
    >> westward around Mt Coot-tha to the intersection with Simpsons Road at
    >> Bardon.
    >>
    >> Public consultation is available until 2 March 2007. The findings and
    >> the recommendations will be available by late March 2007.
    >>
    >> Project details
    >>
    >> This road largely operates as a two-lane roadway. Increased usage has
    >> led to:
    >>
    >> cyclists and walkers being forced onto the road
    >> vehicles needing to pass cyclists and walkers by crossing over the
    >> centre line of the road
    >> Brisbane City Council has three improvement options:
    >>
    >> Option 1 - One-way vehicle operation
    >>
    >> Change the operation of Sir Samuel Griffith Drive to one-way. This
    >> could be implemented in either direction (summit to Simpsons Road or
    >> Simpsons Road to the summit). It could be either two traffic lanes or
    >> one traffic lane and a pedestrian/bicycle lane.
    >>
    >> Option 2 - Two-way vehicle operation with passing bays
    >>
    >> Maintain the existing two-way operation and install passing bays at
    >> regular intervals. This would provide safe opportunities for vehicles
    >> to pass pedestrians and cyclists without crossing the centre of the
    >> road.
    >>
    >> Option 3 - Current operation with additional signs
    >>
    >> Maintain the current operation of the road and install safety and
    >> warning signs. This would help raise awareness of potential traffic,
    >> pedestrian and cyclist hazards.
    >> MORE
    >> "

    >
    > All cyclists: vote early, vote often (an old Queensland tradition!),
    > for Option 3 in the online survey:
    >
    > http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE::pc=PC_2478
    >
    > The Mt Cootha circuit is Brisbane's favourite hill training course -
    > check www.bikely.com for the variety of sessions in each direction of
    > the loop.
    >
    > The pampered TV station staff who work on the hill and drive to work
    > don't like having to wait for cyclists. It's only a few seconds until
    > the way is clear, and only early in the morning, but heck, "We're
    > celebrities, we should be able to drive fast". So they are putting the
    > pressure on council to have the loop road made one-way. This would be
    > a disaster for cycling in Brisbane.
    >
    > Mt Cootha is a key tourist destination in Brisbane, for cyclists and
    > 'normal' folk. So even if you don't live here, you are entitled to
    > vote. Vote Option 3. Say you want the amenity of Mt Cootha for
    > cycling, walking and running on the loop road preserved. Ask why the
    > TV stations are still allowed to occupy public recreational nature
    > reserve, in these days when technology would allow them to relocate
    > off the mountain.
    >
    > Thanks for helping us out, where ever you are. Voting closes this
    > Friday, so don't delay.
    >
    > Donga
    >
     
  10. Donga

    Donga Guest

    On Feb 27, 6:42 pm, Bradley <[email protected]> wrote:
    > I am happy to offer my vote, however why is option 3 preferred?
    >
    > I would have thought the best option is a one way single lane for motor
    > vehicles and a two way lane for pedestrians and cyclists. This *could*
    > be Option 1. The wording of Option 1 is ambiguous to me, do they mean
    > one way for all traffic (motor vehicles, cyclists, and pedestrians) or
    > one way for motor vehicles and two way for cyclists/pedestrians?
    >
    > Option 2 is to add passing lanes, this has to be better from a cyclist
    > perspective than Option 3 which is to add signs only.
    >
    > I haven't ridden this rode (yet) however I live in Toowong and I am
    > familiar with it.
    >


    OK, here goes the argument:
    1. Don't spend public money unless there is a need (it's our taxes)
    2. The current structure works quite well. Cyclists and walkers/
    runners love it. Drivers have to wait a few seconds for cyclists,
    mainly from 6-7 am.
    3. Cyclists sometimes ride two abreast up the hill, but generally move
    over when they hear a car. On the downhill, they don't cross to the
    wrong side, because the road camber and curves are good.
    4. Some drivers are impatient and try to pass on double lines,
    illegally, or when they can't see ahead. They get a scare when a
    cyclist comes fast downhill the other way (not as scared as the
    cyclist), but this is not common and I haven't heard of an accident
    caused by this. Most accidents, car or bike, have been single-vehicle
    caused by excessive speed.
    5. Any such problems could be largely fixed with signage, minor works
    and perhaps some enforcement. Option 2 is acceptable, but the cost is
    unnecessary - passing bays are not built cheaply on a hill.
    7. Confining cyclists and walkers to a single, dual-direction lane
    would make descending unsafe. This is a steep hill with significant
    speed (50+) and descending absolutely requires a full lane. Option 1
    is the product of 70's thinking, that cyclists don't belong on roads
    (note the words "cyclists being forced onto roads).
    8. Making cycling one-way is absurd. I've seen numerous 'beginners'
    riding the hill and turning around halfway - I started out doing this
    myself. We can't tell them to ride all the way.
    9. Mt Cootha is incredibly valuable to Brisbane cyclists - only at Mt
    Gravatt, some distance away, can you do a hills ride before work.
    Hundreds, maybe thousands, use it regularly. This is a sport and
    activity that is ballooning, and should be encouraged and fostered.

    Bradley, I hope I've explained it well. By all means vote Option 2 if
    you don't mind your taxes ballooning in order to look after some
    impatient motorists - heck, with tunnels and all, what does it matter?
    But please don't think for another second that Option 1 is OK.

    Donga
     
  11. adam85

    adam85 New Member

    Joined:
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    [nods in agreement]

    Adam
     
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