BNE: Justice for bike death



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Donga

Guest
Justice for bike death

By Leanne Edmistone

February 20, 2007 11:00pm
Article from: The Courier-Mail

A WOMAN was finally jailed yesterday for running down and killing a
Bribie Island father-of-four - 20 years after she fled interstate.

Kathleen Groen was 25 when she hit cyclist Edward Joseph McMahon, 47,
about 3.30pm on July 26, 1987.

She had a blood alcohol content of 0.175 per cent.

Crown Prosecutor Ben Power said Groen was interviewed by police three
times but by the time of the coronial inquest in 1988 could not be
located because she had moved interstate.

A warrant was issued for her arrest.

The court heard Groen contacted Queensland Police in December 2002
from NSW, where she had applied for and been refused a passport
because of the outstanding warrant.

She surrendered to police in May 2003 at Redcliffe and was granted
bail.

In 2005, Groen - also known as Kathleen Schroeder, now 44 and a
Central Queensland publican - was charged over the death of a woman in
Wynnum West, in Brisbane's bayside. She was granted bail and fled to
Western Australia.

Groen was extradited back to Queensland and remanded in custody to
face trial.

Earlier this month, she was acquitted by a Brisbane Supreme Court jury
of manslaughter. Victim impact statements by widow Helen McMahon and
son Warren were tendered to the court.

Defence barrister Adrian Gundelach said his client was a mother of
three who had led a troubled life, which included time in psychiatric
facilities.

Judge Charles Brabazon, QC, yesterday sentenced Groen, who pleaded
guilty to dangerous driving causing death while drunk, to three years'
jail.

However he ordered she be released on parole tomorrow, given she had
served almost 15 months' jail on remand. Convictions were recorded.

Groen will face the Brisbane Magistrate's Court tomorrow on charges of
breaching bail and failing to appear in court.

Mrs McMahon yesterday said it was "surreal" that Groen should finally
be found and brought before the courts 20 years after leaving her and
their four children devastated.

"We've just got on with our lives, we've had to," she said.

"It doesn't matter what she did, it wasn't going to bring Ted back."

Mrs McMahon, who is now a grandmother of eight, said her husband was a
well-known and respected identity in the Bribie Island community and a
dedicated family man who enjoyed playing sports and bikeriding with
his three sons and daughter.
 
I read that too.. what a joke our justice system is.

If I ever truly dislike someone, I know what I'll do - run them over in my car!
 
Now if I'm reading this article correctly, she was responsible for taking the lives of two people in seperate incidents? Correct me if I'm wrong?
 
cfsmtb wrote:
>
> Now if I'm reading this article correctly, she was responsible for
> taking the lives of two people in seperate incidents? Correct me if I'm
> wrong?


That's how I read it.

T
 
Donga wrote:
> Justice for bike death


That's Justice? That's not even a pissweak excuse for it, imo.

Also, released on Parole to appear on further charges? They must have missed
the part where she was on the run from remand on both prior occasions, there
must be a book running on the chances of her appearing to face the 'failing
to appear' charge.

I have to wonder what the circumstances of the second homicide /
manslaughter were?

Unreal.

'n
 
This is shaping up as a WoJ topic - is it worth posting on the
website, cfsmtb? It might be worth asking the Attorney General for an
explanation - your thoughts?

Donga
 
On 2007-02-21, Ian George (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Donga wrote:
>> Justice for bike death

>
> That's Justice? That's not even a pissweak excuse for it, imo.
>
> Also, released on Parole to appear on further charges? They must have missed
> the part where she was on the run from remand on both prior occasions, there
> must be a book running on the chances of her appearing to face the 'failing
> to appear' charge.


One thing news articles never state (because it's not sensationalist
enough) is that she may have been released from jail, but are you sure
she wasn't put back into a secured psychiatric institution?

--
TimC
"Mango sorbet is clearcut proof that we have progressed beyond the
bare needs of survival and have progressed to the transcendant."
- Marc Goodman in talk.bizarre
 
Donga said:
This is shaping up as a WoJ topic - is it worth posting on the
website, cfsmtb? It might be worth asking the Attorney General for an
explanation - your thoughts?

Answer: Yes and Yes.

Plenty of updates coming, I try to keep up to date by posting at least 2-3 times a week. But I've got this life and it's increasingly busy too ..... and while we're on the subject of WoJ and blogs & stuff, if someone out there has got experience with using Wordpress and also has a couple of hours spare each week ...... ;)
 
TimC wrote:
> On 2007-02-21, Ian George (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> Donga wrote:
>>> Justice for bike death

>>
>> That's Justice? That's not even a pissweak excuse for it, imo.
>>
>> Also, released on Parole to appear on further charges? They must
>> have missed the part where she was on the run from remand on both
>> prior occasions, there must be a book running on the chances of her
>> appearing to face the 'failing to appear' charge.

>
> One thing news articles never state (because it's not sensationalist
> enough) is that she may have been released from jail, but are you sure
> she wasn't put back into a secured psychiatric institution?


No, I really don't know anything other than what was in the quoted report:
but I have an understanding of what 'released on parole' means, and I
struggle to come up with an interpretation that leads to continuing
incarceration.

'n
 
Ian George said:
TimC wrote:
> On 2007-02-21, Ian George (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> Donga wrote:
>>> Justice for bike death

>>
>> That's Justice? That's not even a pissweak excuse for it, imo.
>>
>> Also, released on Parole to appear on further charges? They must
>> have missed the part where she was on the run from remand on both
>> prior occasions, there must be a book running on the chances of her
>> appearing to face the 'failing to appear' charge.

>
> One thing news articles never state (because it's not sensationalist
> enough) is that she may have been released from jail, but are you sure
> she wasn't put back into a secured psychiatric institution?


No, I really don't know anything other than what was in the quoted report:
but I have an understanding of what 'released on parole' means, and I
struggle to come up with an interpretation that leads to continuing
incarceration.

'n
Taking the Courier Mail's report on face value, the question I have is - what happened between being released on bail in Qld May 2003 for the first offence and committing the second offence while still in Qld in 2005?

The first offence was not proved beyond reasonable doubt - no conviction. Be interesting to know the facts there.

3 years on drink driving causing death seems a little lenient. I'd like to know the rest of the facts. The issue about the woman having had an unfortunate life might not be relevant to the sentencing, but they are the sort of thing that a newspaper reporter picks up and puts into the story.

SteveA

Steve
 
On Feb 21, 5:32 pm, SteveA <SteveA.2mc...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> Ian George Wrote:
>
>
>
> > TimC wrote:
> > > On 2007-02-21, Ian George (aka Bruce)
> > > was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> > >> Donga wrote:
> > >>> Justice for bike death

>
> > >> That's Justice? That's not even a pissweak excuse for it, imo.

>
> > >> Also, released on Parole to appear on further charges? They must
> > >> have missed the part where she was on the run from remand on both
> > >> prior occasions, there must be a book running on the chances of her
> > >> appearing to face the 'failing to appear' charge.

>
> > > One thing news articles never state (because it's not sensationalist
> > > enough) is that she may have been released from jail, but are you

> > sure
> > > she wasn't put back into a secured psychiatric institution?

>
> > No, I really don't know anything other than what was in the quoted
> > report:
> > but I have an understanding of what 'released on parole' means, and I
> > struggle to come up with an interpretation that leads to continuing
> > incarceration.

>
> > 'n

>
> Taking the Courier Mail's report on face value, the question I have is
> - what happened between being released on bail in Qld May 2003 for the
> first offence and committing the second offence while still in Qld in
> 2005?
>
> The first offence was not proved beyond reasonable doubt - no
> conviction. Be interesting to know the facts there.
>
> 3 years on drink driving causing death seems a little lenient. I'd
> like to know the rest of the facts. The issue about the woman having
> had an unfortunate life might not be relevant to the sentencing, but
> they are the sort of thing that a newspaper reporter picks up and puts
> into the story.
>
> SteveA
>
> Steve
>
> --
> SteveA- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Tips please Steve, for the best way for a local to find out?

Donga
 
Donga said:
On Feb 21, 5:32 pm, SteveA <SteveA.2mc...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> Ian George Wrote:
>
>
>
> > TimC wrote:
> > > On 2007-02-21, Ian George (aka Bruce)
> > > was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> > >> Donga wrote:
> > >>> Justice for bike death

>
> > >> That's Justice? That's not even a pissweak excuse for it, imo.

>
> > >> Also, released on Parole to appear on further charges? They must
> > >> have missed the part where she was on the run from remand on both
> > >> prior occasions, there must be a book running on the chances of her
> > >> appearing to face the 'failing to appear' charge.

>
> > > One thing news articles never state (because it's not sensationalist
> > > enough) is that she may have been released from jail, but are you

> > sure
> > > she wasn't put back into a secured psychiatric institution?

>
> > No, I really don't know anything other than what was in the quoted
> > report:
> > but I have an understanding of what 'released on parole' means, and I
> > struggle to come up with an interpretation that leads to continuing
> > incarceration.

>
> > 'n

>
> Taking the Courier Mail's report on face value, the question I have is
> - what happened between being released on bail in Qld May 2003 for the
> first offence and committing the second offence while still in Qld in
> 2005?
>
> The first offence was not proved beyond reasonable doubt - no
> conviction. Be interesting to know the facts there.
>
> 3 years on drink driving causing death seems a little lenient. I'd
> like to know the rest of the facts. The issue about the woman having
> had an unfortunate life might not be relevant to the sentencing, but
> they are the sort of thing that a newspaper reporter picks up and puts
> into the story.
>
> SteveA
>
> Steve
>
> --
> SteveA- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Tips please Steve, for the best way for a local to find out?

Donga

Qld is not my jurisdiction, however, I know that for Qld Magistrate's Court matters, you can obtain a transcript of a criminal matter if you can convince the Registrar that you have 'sufficient interest' in the case. Sufficient interest in the legal sense, not that you really really really want to know about it. There is a fee for copies and you can't simply read through a public register at the Court.

District and Supreme Courts allow everyone to see the transcripts of criminal matters (for free) at the Courts. Copies can be had if you pay for them.

I'm not sure how long a lag there is before transcripts are available.

Basic info is here:

http://www.justice.qld.gov.au/lawyers/transcripts.htm

Thank you for asking for our advice on this matter, we disclaim any responsibility for anything above and our bill is in the mail etc :D

SteveA
 
On Feb 22, 11:12 am, SteveA <SteveA.2md...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:

> Thank you for asking for our advice on this matter, we disclaim any
> responsibility for anything above and our bill is in the mail etc :D
>
> SteveA


Thanks Steve. Your account will receive the usual treatment ;-)
 
Donga said:
On Feb 22, 11:12 am, SteveA <SteveA.2md...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:

> Thank you for asking for our advice on this matter, we disclaim any
> responsibility for anything above and our bill is in the mail etc :D
>
> SteveA


Thanks Steve. Your account will receive the usual treatment ;-)

It looks like I've got to come to Brisbane soon to personally threaten some idiot who has been buggering my old mum about in relation to supplying and fitting a rain water tank. He has been at it for the last 6 months and has yet to provide a tank that fills up properly, holds the water without major leaks and then pumps the water out properly.

I can include you in my visit........

:D :D :D

SteveA
 
On Feb 22, 12:05 pm, SteveA <SteveA.2md...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> Donga Wrote:
>
> > On Feb 22, 11:12 am, SteveA <SteveA.2md...@no-
> > mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:

>
> > > Thank you for asking for our advice on this matter, we disclaim any
> > > responsibility for anything above and our bill is in the mail etc :D

>
> > > SteveA

>
> > Thanks Steve. Your account will receive the usual treatment ;-)

>
> It looks like I've got to come to Brisbane soon to personally threaten
> some idiot who has been buggering my old mum about in relation to
> supplying and fitting a rain water tank. He has been at it for the
> last 6 months and has yet to provide a tank that fills up properly,
> holds the water without major leaks and then pumps the water out
> properly.
>
> I can include you in my visit........
>
> :D :D :D
>
> SteveA
>
> --
> SteveA


Bring your bike - or we might even find one for you in the quiver.
BTW I have a cycling mate who is a debt collector - want his contact?

Donga
 
Donga said:
On Feb 22, 12:05 pm, SteveA <SteveA.2md...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> Donga Wrote:
>
> > On Feb 22, 11:12 am, SteveA <SteveA.2md...@no-
> > mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:

>
> > > Thank you for asking for our advice on this matter, we disclaim any
> > > responsibility for anything above and our bill is in the mail etc :D

>
> > > SteveA

>
> > Thanks Steve. Your account will receive the usual treatment ;-)

>
> It looks like I've got to come to Brisbane soon to personally threaten
> some idiot who has been buggering my old mum about in relation to
> supplying and fitting a rain water tank. He has been at it for the
> last 6 months and has yet to provide a tank that fills up properly,
> holds the water without major leaks and then pumps the water out
> properly.
>
> I can include you in my visit........
>
> :D :D :D
>
> SteveA
>
> --
> SteveA


Bring your bike - or we might even find one for you in the quiver.
BTW I have a cycling mate who is a debt collector - want his contact?

Donga
Thanks for your offer of a loan of some muscle...

I have a younger brother who used to own a company which had big trucks. He was helping a mate out by using one of his trucks to cart sand for a shopping centre expansion project. An idiot parked his car in the only entry to the building site despite being warned by my brother that he could not park there. I think he might have even told my brother to get stuffed. My brother couldn't get onto the site so he emptied his load of wet sand around the parked car. When the driver came back he was not happy. Especially when the younger brother would not even lend him a shovel to dig his car out.

SteveA
 
On Feb 22, 4:43 pm, SteveA <SteveA.2me...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> Donga Wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 22, 12:05 pm, SteveA <SteveA.2md...@no-
> > mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> > > Donga Wrote:

>
> > > > On Feb 22, 11:12 am, SteveA <SteveA.2md...@no-
> > > > mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:

>
> > > > > Thank you for asking for our advice on this matter, we disclaim

> > any
> > > > > responsibility for anything above and our bill is in the mail etc

> > :D

>
> > > > > SteveA

>
> > > > Thanks Steve. Your account will receive the usual treatment ;-)

>
> > > It looks like I've got to come to Brisbane soon to personally

> > threaten
> > > some idiot who has been buggering my old mum about in relation to
> > > supplying and fitting a rain water tank. He has been at it for the
> > > last 6 months and has yet to provide a tank that fills up properly,
> > > holds the water without major leaks and then pumps the water out
> > > properly.

>
> > > I can include you in my visit........

>
> > > :D :D :D

>
> > > SteveA

>
> > > --
> > > SteveA

>
> > Bring your bike - or we might even find one for you in the quiver.
> > BTW I have a cycling mate who is a debt collector - want his contact?

>
> > Donga

>
> Thanks for your offer of a loan of some muscle...
>
> I have a younger brother who used to own a company which had big
> trucks. He was helping a mate out by using one of his trucks to cart
> sand for a shopping centre expansion project. An idiot parked his car
> in the only entry to the building site despite being warned by my
> brother that he could not park there. I think he might have even told
> my brother to get stuffed. My brother couldn't get onto the site so he
> emptied his load of wet sand around the parked car. When the driver
> came back he was not happy. Especially when the younger brother would
> not even lend him a shovel to dig his car out.
>
> SteveA
>
> --
> SteveA- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


sounds like a KENNY moment!

Karl aka Stomper