Boardman SLR/9.2S Di2 or custom build

[swampy1970]

For the nutrition, don't be afraid to deviate from what people typically recommend - i.e. tons of carbs from drinks/gels and bars and instead rely on food groups that you can eat and digest well, while drinking either water or watered down carbohydrate drinks. Ask your doctors too. If you're making a good effort to better your health they'll likely help you - and it'll be a refreshing change for them too being asked about what food to eat in order to ride 30, 50 or 100 miles rather than doc, I'm not feeling good and I keep pooping my pants.

Food is such an individual thing on the bike, even for folks without GI problems. I've been getting burned out on gels and bars and have been thinking more old school - raisins, bananas, peanut butter and jam sarnies, even thinking about making little sushi like rolls, but with sliced roast beef or ham instead of raw fish that would likely not be too good after 3 hours in a sweaty back pocket.

Even if you only get about half the calories and carbs through an alternative diet on the bike, it might be better than suffering with 'the usual' stuff.

Just a thought.

 

[swampy1970]

What part of the UK are you from?

 

[Cube1959]

Originally Posted by swampy1970
For the nutrition, don't be afraid to deviate from what people typically recommend - i.e. tons of carbs from drinks/gels and bars and instead rely on food groups that you can eat and digest well, while drinking either water or watered down carbohydrate drinks. Ask your doctors too. If you're making a good effort to better your health they'll likely help you - and it'll be a refreshing change for them too being asked about what food to eat in order to ride 30, 50 or 100 miles rather than doc, I'm not feeling good and I keep pooping my pants.

Food is such an individual thing on the bike, even for folks without GI problems. I've been getting burned out on gels and bars and have been thinking more old school - raisins, bananas, peanut butter and jam sarnies, even thinking about making little sushi like rolls, but with sliced roast beef or ham instead of raw fish that would likely not be too good after 3 hours in a sweaty back pocket.

Even if you only get about half the calories and carbs through an alternative diet on the bike, it might be better than suffering with 'the usual' stuff.

Just a thought.

Hi Swampy , some good advice there , I make my own energy bars now , god they taste dam good , Not much good if you are on a diet though .. I think I will go see the Dr , but I am at the hospital soon , Also just had an email from Crohn's and Colitis uk , they said to go in the celebrity sports section and ask , Darren Fletcher ( Man utd ) didn't play for 2 years while his was sorted , however he did have an op , Sir Steve Redgrave is another sufferer ..
I live in North Wales , but just 10 miles from Chester , so I'm very lucky , head into Wales for the hills , or Cheshire for the flat , I have been getting used to cycling again after over 25 years off a bike so have been getting miles in around Cheshire , this year I will head towards the hills more ..

Rog

 

[alfeng]

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbobcat .
So saith the oracle.

So what?


Oh, where-or-where is the sense of humor?

Are you not familiar with the cinematic/literary reference?

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by swampy1970
At least Shimano Di2 doesn't require a front derailleur 'stiffener' (aka metal bracket to stop you snapping your carbon frame) or toughened forged chainrings specially made to handle the 52Nm of torque that Campag needed to use in order to make the chain shift from one ring to another. 52Nm? WTF. Why do you need almost 40 lb/ft to change gears?

See how much dwell you get when your aftermarket chainrings snap in two and your frame turns into shards of plastic before the errant electric front mech eats your calf muscle like it's some weird zombie front mech apocalypse!

Nom nom nom nom nom...

Ah, yes ... When denial is no longer viable, deflect (!) ...

And/Or, obfuscate by inferring (i.e., pretending) that "dwell" is possibly a component of either Campagnolo or Shimano's electronic shifters when it isn't.
As 'I' am not directly familiar with the "stiffener" to which you are referring, I cannot comment ... Geez ... 52Nm is only 38.35 lb/ft (vs. 40 lb/ft) ... if you truly have a valid point then I would think that you would not need to inflate it ... What is the comparative torque of the Di2 front derailleur?

Heck, what is the comparative torque needed to move an STI front derailleur?
Regardless, I doubt that Campagnolo's more recent, "forged" chainrings are any more robust than Shimano's better-than-105 chainrings.
I guess it is a good thing that 'I' am apparently content with my mechanical Campagnolo shifters + (with apologies to Campy purists) Shimano derailleurs & Shimano cassettes so that I do not need to use electronic shifters to achieve the same level of clean shifts which the professional reviewers claim they were able to achieve with either the Shimano or Campagnolo electronic groups ... So, while I do believe that cosmetics ARE (can be) a factor when choosing components AND while I do have a CF bike frame, my CF bike frame will not be adorned with electronic shifters/derailleurs while 'I' own it ... AND SO, if you are correct that there is a potential hazard with a Campagnolo EPS front derailleur design-and-implementation which may-or-may-not be greater than the hazard which a Shimano Di2 front derailleur may-or-may-not have, then I will be forever safe (whew!!) from a potential "zombie front mech apocalypse."

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by Cube1959

Hi Swampy , some good advice there , I make my own energy bars now , god they taste dam good , Not much good if you are on a diet though .. I think I will go see the Dr , but I am at the hospital soon , Also just had an email from Crohn's and Colitis uk , they said to go in the celebrity sports section and ask , Darren Fletcher ( Man utd ) didn't play for 2 years while his was sorted , however he did have an op , Sir Steve Redgrave is another sufferer ..
I live in North Wales , but just 10 miles from Chester , so I'm very lucky , head into Wales for the hills , or Cheshire for the flat , I have been getting used to cycling again after over 25 years off a bike so have been getting miles in around Cheshire , this year I will head towards the hills more ..

Rog

Geez, Rog ...

Going a bit OT, aren't you?

KIDDING!!!!

 

[Cube1959]

Originally Posted by alfeng .


Geez, Rog ...

Going a bit OT, aren't you?

KIDDING!!!!


I think you win that one hands down !!! Lmao ...

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by Cube1959
That info says SOME , it dosn't mention Shimano

BTW/AFAIK/FYI. Despite the phrasing which implies that "dwell" possibly exists in other brands, it is ONLY Shimano's mechanical shifters which have "dwell" ...

And, one can/could-or-should probably rightly-or-exclusively extrapolate it as referring to the various lines within Shimano's pantheon of components.

Regardless, there isn't a specific thread about "dwell" BECAUSE, only a handful of defenders-of-the-faith deny that "dwell" exists AND a separate thread is not necessary.


And so, the use of "some" is probably more of a just-in-case-there-may-be-others phrasing.

 

[swampy1970]

Originally Posted by alfeng

Ah, yes ... When denial is no longer viable, deflect (!) ...

And/Or, obfuscate by inferring (i.e., pretending) that "dwell" is possibly a component of either Campagnolo or Shimano's electronic shifters when it isn't.
As 'I' am not directly familiar with the "stiffener" to which you are referring, I cannot comment ... Geez ... 52Nm is only 38.35 lb/ft (vs. 40 lb/ft) ... if you truly have a valid point then I would think that you would not need to inflate it ... What is the comparative torque of the Di2 front derailleur?

Heck, what is the comparative torque needed to move an STI front derailleur?
Regardless, I doubt that Campagnolo's more recent, "forged" chainrings are any more robust than Shimano's better-than-105 chainrings.
I guess it is a good thing that 'I' am apparently content with my mechanical Campagnolo shifters + (with apologies to Campy purists) Shimano derailleurs & Shimano cassettes so that I do not need to use electronic shifters to achieve the same level of clean shifts which the professional reviewers claim they were able to achieve with either the Shimano or Campagnolo electronic groups ... So, while I do believe that cosmetics ARE (can be) a factor when choosing components AND while I do have a CF bike frame, my CF bike frame will not be adorned with electronic shifters/derailleurs while 'I' own it ... AND SO, if you are correct that there is a potential hazard with a Campagnolo EPS front derailleur design-and-implementation which may-or-may-not be greater than the hazard which a Shimano Di2 front derailleur may-or-may-not have, then I will be forever safe (whew!!) from a potential "zombie front mech apocalypse."

You get that "almost 40lb/ft" is right around 38 and change, right? I said "right around" for a reason - quick math and for most torque wrenches, 2 to 3% is right at the level of accuracy.

The Campag EPS issue and the front mech isn't just for CF frames. The stiffener is there to mainly prevent the braze on hanger from deflective and causing a goofy shift.

Shimano make some really nice aluminum forgings, which is why a lot of their stuff is still aluminum for the bike parts despite the fact that they're one of the larger users of carbon fiber for recreational goods in their other part of the business - like fishing. Like it or not, Shimano have been putting out better forged products than Campag since the 80's. Lighter, stronger, less likely to break...

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by swampy1970

You get that "almost 40lb/ft" is right around 38 and change, right? I said "right around" for a reason - quick math and for most torque wrenches, 2 to 3% is right at the level of accuracy.

The Campag EPS issue and the front mech isn't just for CF frames. The stiffener is there to mainly prevent the braze on hanger from deflective and causing a goofy shift.

Shimano make some really nice aluminum forgings, which is why a lot of their stuff is still aluminum for the bike parts despite the fact that they're one of the larger users of carbon fiber for recreational goods in their other part of the business - like fishing. Like it or not, Shimano have been putting out better forged products than Campag since the 80's. Lighter, stronger, less likely to break...

WHAT?!?

Geez, "Kev" ...

You guys (THAT's generic ... you can exclude yourself if you want OR wear the mantel proudly) have been such nitpickers about what 'I' have written in the past AND YET you are playing it fast & loose with numbers ...

Without even using a calculator, you should know that the difference between 38.35 & 40 is almost 5% ...

So, NOT right ...

No matter.

Regardless, you are preaching-to-the-choir with regard to Shimano's craftsmanship & the quality of their forged components ...

I have said it MORE often than anyone else ...

I love Shimano components ...

I just have a issue with the poorly conceived, eccentric take-up spool in their STI shifters ...

PLUS, with the "reviewers" (paid, or not) who deny that there is any problem & thereby deceive those who don't know that the problem is NOT with them & that it can therefore be suggested that the emperor has no clothes.

BTW. I'm glad that you were apparently more interested in the EPS derailleurs and/or shifters than I am. I guess if I were a so-called professional reviewer who had ready access (i.e., freely loaned) to the various electronic components then 'I' would see whether the Shimano Di2 shifters could accurately activate the Campagnolo EPS derailleurs AND whether the Campagnolo EPS shfiters could accurately activate the Shimano Di2 derailleurs ...

While there may be an issue with the rear derailleurs, I would think that there shouldn't be a problem with the front derailleurs mated to Double Chainring cranksets ...

If a comparatively direct-connect were not possible (allowing for different plugs-and-sockets), then I suppose it could be as simple as adding a resistor "in line" to get the current being sent to the derailleur correct because I would presume that an electronic front derailleur is pretty "dumb."

So, problem solved!?!

 

[oldbobcat]

Originally Posted by swampy1970

Shimano make some really nice aluminum forgings, which is why a lot of their stuff is still aluminum for the bike parts despite the fact that they're one of the larger users of carbon fiber for recreational goods in their other part of the business - like fishing. Like it or not, Shimano have been putting out be better forged products than Campag since the 80's. Lighter, stronger, less likely to break...

Got news for you. Shimano uses the same kind of plate (with an adjusting bolt) on Di2 and 6800 and 9000 mechanical systems when the front derailleur is tab-mounted. With band-mounted, the derailleur just pushes against the band. The lever arms on Shimano 11-speed front derailleurs are pretty long, so my estimation is that there were concerns that some frame makers tabs wouldn't be stiff enough.

Everyone who's familiar with my posts knows that I've ragged on alfeng for his Campagnolo eagerness to extoll the virtues of Ergo levers for every application except SRAM, but I have never maintained that Campagnolo stuff was inferior. Well, the latest news on creaking Ultra-torque cranks might make me change my mind, but puh-leeze, let's not get into an EPS vs. Di2 spitting match without real data.

And as for system interchangeability, forget about it. Shimano hasn't even figured out how to make 7970, 9070, and 6870 talk to each other. So far, the connections and firmware are incompatible, but Shinamo indicates that the system on 6870, called E-tube Connect, is the way forward, and from now on that will be the standard. Don't know about plans for backward compatibility, though.

 

[swampy1970]

Originally Posted by oldbobcat
Got news for you. Shimano uses the same kind of plate (with an adjusting bolt) on Di2 and 6800 and 9000 mechanical systems when the front derailleur is tab-mounted. With band-mounted, the derailleur just pushes against the band. The lever arms on Shimano 11-speed front derailleurs are pretty long, so my estimation is that there were concerns that some frame makers tabs wouldn't be stiff enough.

Everyone who's familiar with my posts knows that I've ragged on alfeng for his Campagnolo eagerness to extoll the virtues of Ergo levers for every application except SRAM, but I have never maintained that Campagnolo stuff was inferior. Well, the latest news on creaking Ultra-torque cranks might make me change my mind, but puh-leeze, let's not get into an EPS vs. Di2 spitting match without real data.

And as for system interchangeability, forget about it. Shimano hasn't even figured out how to make 7970, 9070, and 6870 talk to each other. So far, the connections and firmware are incompatible, but Shinamo indicates that the system on 6870, called E-tube Connect, is the way forward, and from now on that will be the standard. Don't know about plans for backward compatibility, though.

Shimano has a bolt and a radiused washer - Campagnolo has Viagra TM a stiffness increaser (their term, not mine):


Show me where Shimano has anything like that. If I'm wrong and completely barking up the wrong tree, then let me know - and I'm not saying that in a snide way, if I'm wrong I want to know to prevent me from looking like a dumbass again. From what I saw there was a discrete bolt and plate arrangement for the mechanical group.

Shimano Di2 doesn't have dysfunctional issues apparently.

Have you seen the Ergopower installation checklist? NASA's Shuttle launch checklist isn't that long... An most of the folks on the planet that ride with their levers high on the bars (a fad that's become popular the past decade) are completely S.O.L. it would seem:

http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/documenti/en/EPS_Interface_with_frame_EN_Rev00_06_13.pdf

19 pages of detailed criteria that you're supposed to meet before everything works ace? Really? Is this "progress?"

When I first started cycling back in 84/85, Super Record was a thing to behold. Jewel like and just awesome - well, apart from when the cranks snapped at the end of the radiused section at the end near the pedal threads. Those lapped bottom brackets... Ooooooh. I think only Sugino does those now... Then Dura Ace 7400 came along and as much as Campag C-Record with the jewel like cobalto brake looked so sexy, it was heavier, the brakes didn't work as well, syncro didn't work for **** and it cost 50% more. Then, for what ever crazy reason, they introduced Delta. Now I look at Shimano Dura Ace kit with the same reverence that I once did with the original Super Record and look at Super Record and think, why? - and this is from a guy that once lived and breathed Campagnolo, from Record/Super Record parts to Shamal wheels.

... and now, you have different EPS interface units for road bikes and TT bikes in just the Super Record range alone. WTF. The market doesn't seem to be interested in fun things like batteries hidden in seatposts for example with EPS. On the flip side you could say that shimano is dragging their heals with their Tri/TT offerings as they're still 10 speed.

As for compatibility on the Shimano groups, I'm not one to worry about whether Ultegra bits work with Dura Ace. I'd be surprised if full compatibility would be achieved as I'd expect to the Dura Ace groupset to have features that Ultegra did not. IMHO, there need to be a bit more of a differentiator between groupsets than a few grams of weight and ball bearings in the brakes rather than bushings.

As for forging and other aluminum wizardry that I was mainly pertaining too in the previous post - Shimano's hollow 7900 and 9000 chainrings. Pass me a tissue please...

 

[oldbobcat]

Shimano has a little metal plate with a sticky patch on one side, that you're supposed to stick to the frame where the bolt can hit it. I think that's pretty Mickey Mouse, too.

Nuovo Record and Super Record were all you needed to know 35 years ago, I agree. I liked SunTour Cyclone derailleurs and freewheels, and Sugino Mighty cranksets when they came out, too. By putting the slant on the parallelogram, SunTour succeeded at solving the problem that Huret failed at ten years earlier, to which Campagnolo simply said, racers don't need those gear ranges anyway.

I lost enthusiasm for Campagnolo with Delta brakes and ignored bike equipment for almost two decades. When I came back, there was Hollowtech II. Simply brilliant. I also like the SRAM Force kit on my Madone, so go figure.

 

[zazata]

Boardman Bikes Elite SLS 9.4S Complete Bike - 2014 $4.600 from AMAZON

 

[swampy1970]

Shimano has a little metal plate with a sticky patch on one side, that you're supposed to stick to the frame where the bolt can hit it. I think that's pretty Mickey Mouse, too. Nuovo Record and Super Record were all you needed to know 35 years ago, I agree. I liked SunTour Cyclone derailleurs and freewheels, and Sugino Mighty cranksets when they came out, too. By putting the slant on the parallelogram, SunTour succeeded at solving the problem that Huret failed at ten years earlier, to which Campagnolo simply said, racers don't need those gear ranges anyway. I lost enthusiasm for Campagnolo with Delta brakes and ignored bike equipment for almost two decades. When I came back, there was Hollowtech II. Simply brilliant. I also like the SRAM Force kit on my Madone, so go figure.

Remember SunTour Superbe Pro? That kit was awesome - IMHO better than Record of the era and almost as good initially as Dura Ace 7400 group. However as 7400 evolved it seemed to fade a bit into obscurity - I remember hard ******* extraordinaire, Jelle Nijdam, winning quite a few Tour stages on the stuff with various incarnations of the Buckler and Superconfex. I think that team morphed into Rabobank and now Belkin.

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by oldbobcat
Got news for you. Shimano uses the same kind of plate (with an adjusting bolt) on Di2 and 6800 and 9000 mechanical systems when the front derailleur is tab-mounted. With band-mounted, the derailleur just pushes against the band. The lever arms on Shimano 11-speed front derailleurs are pretty long, so my estimation is that there were concerns that some frame makers tabs wouldn't be stiff enough.

Everyone who's familiar with my posts knows that I've ragged on alfeng for his Campagnolo eagerness to extoll the virtues of Ergo levers for every application except SRAM, but I have never maintained that Campagnolo stuff was inferior. Well, the latest news on creaking Ultra-torque cranks might make me change my mind, but puh-leeze, let's not get into an EPS vs. Di2 spitting match without real data.

And as for system interchangeability, forget about it. Shimano hasn't even figured out how to make 7970, 9070, and 6870 talk to each other. So far, the connections and firmware are incompatible, but Shinamo indicates that the system on 6870, called E-tube Connect, is the way forward, and from now on that will be the standard. Don't know about plans for backward compatibility, though.

Alas ...

I am afraid that I have so little "good" to say about SRAM that I just try to ignore their various product lines OR specific products OR the corporation, itself, because of what I perceive to be their apparent corporate philosophy ...

In brief (VERY abbreviated), if I didn't say it before then let me now say for the record that ALL current SRAM users would ALSO benefit by switching to Campagnolo shifters ...

THAT's not an opinion, but a fact ...

Because, SRAM's front shifter lacks trim (an issue which was addressed with the "Yaw" design which sounds like a variation of one of Shimano's XTR front derailleurs from about 10 years ago) ...

AND further, SRAM's double-tap shifters are only available for use with cranks which have Double chainrings which means that "tourists" need-not-apply ...

Hardly superior in design BUT easily corrected by simply adding a 2+ notches to the indexing wheel.

BTW. Does that mean that you would now recommend for OR recommend against the Ultra Torque cranks?

BTW2. Yes, I presumed that the connections are not compatible, but does anyone know how "dumb" or "intelligent" the front derailleur's servo is-or-isn't?

I presume that the Di2 & EPS front (and, rear) derailleurs have stops ...

Is that right?

 

[oldbobcat]

Originally Posted by alfeng

Alas ...

I am afraid that I have so little "good" to say about SRAM that I just try to ignore their various product lines OR specific products OR the corporation, itself, because of what I perceive to be their apparent corporate philosophy ...

In brief (VERY abbreviated), if I didn't say it before then let me now say for the record that ALL current SRAM users would ALSO benefit by switching to Campagnolo shifters ...

THAT's not an opinion, but a fact ...

Because, SRAM's front shifter lacks trim (an issue which was addressed with the "Yaw" design which sounds like a variation of one of Shimano's XTR front derailleurs from about 10 years ago) ...

AND further, SRAM's double-tap shifters are only available for use with cranks which have Double chainrings which means that "tourists" need-not-apply ...

Hardly superior in design BUT easily corrected by simply adding a 2+ notches to the indexing wheel.

BTW. Does that mean that you would now recommend for OR recommend against the Ultra Torque cranks?

BTW2. Yes, I presumed that the connections are not compatible, but does anyone know how "dumb" or "intelligent" the front derailleur's servo is-or-isn't?

I presume that the Di2 & EPS front (and, rear) derailleurs have stops ...

Is that right?

SRAM Apex through Force have high trim. Low trim isn't necessary.

Di2 has limit screws on both derailleurs. Di2 is smart enough to tell you when the batter is about to quit, but not smart enough to know when a hanger or tab or cage is bent, or a bolt is loose. I don't know about EPS.

I don't recommend anything. Each system in its own way is both brilliant and ridiculous.

Sometimes it's just time to just shut up and ride.

 

[oldbobcat]

Originally Posted by swampy1970


Remember SunTour Superbe Pro? That kit was awesome - IMHO better than Record of the era and almost as good initially as Dura Ace 7400 group. However as 7400 evolved it seemed to fade a bit into obscurity - I remember hard ******* extraordinaire, Jelle Nijdam, winning quite a few Tour stages on the stuff with various incarnations of the Buckler and Superconfex. I think that team morphed into Rabobank and now Belkin.

I think you're getting into my lost decade here, so I'll take your word for it.

Other remarkable and long forgotten kit should include Zeus 2000 and Stronglight 93 cranks.

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by oldbobcat

SRAM Apex through Force have high trim. Low trim isn't necessary.

Di2 has limit screws on both derailleurs. Di2 is smart enough to tell you when the batter is about to quit, but not smart enough to know when a hanger or tab or cage is bent, or a bolt is loose. I don't know about EPS.

Okay, what do you mean by "high trim" and "low trim"?

And, WHY do some people have problem with their chain rubbing against their SRAM front derailleur's cage?

Thanks for confirming that the Di2 derailleurs have stops ...

Originally Posted by oldbobcat
I don't recommend anything. Each system in its own way is both brilliant and ridiculous.

Sometimes it's just time to just shut up and ride.

AND SO, why not use the better/best-or-acceptable-substitute option from any given manufacturer rather than worrying about maintaining what I have referred to as a leisure suit appearance to the components on a bike UNLESS a person is a sponsored rider who is paid to use this-or-that?

Of course, there is NOTHING WRONG with the leisure suit look if that is one prefers because cosmetics certainly can-or-do matter!!!

On the other side of the coin, here (below ... a temporary installation) is a crankset which I never understood why I bought since 'I' now/(¿always?) consider(ed) it to be one of Campagnolo's ugliest (the replacement chainrings certainly don't help its appearance!) & the appearance never suited MY aesthetic sensibilities ...

​

​

IMO, the design was (very) close, but no cigar!!!

I will blame MAVIC's "starfish" crankset even if it wasn't necessarily the inspiration.

The particular crankset is a legacy component which is an ever present reminder to me of Campagnolo's "dark period."

Consequently, I have been trying to find the right bike for it for more than a decade even though I should probably mount it in a shadow box & pretend that it is art!

 

[oldbobcat]

Originally Posted by alfeng

Okay, what do you mean by "high trim" and "low trim"?

And, WHY do some people have problem with their chain rubbing against their SRAM front derailleur's cage?

High trim is trim for the big ring. Low trim is trim for the small ring. Of course, there are no middle rings with SRAM road.

If SRAM users are getting rub, it's on the inside of the big ring, not the derailleur cage, when they cross-chain small-small, or they haven't set it up correctly. This pissing match is really stupid. I only piped up to say that Di2 and 11-speed mechanical had a kludge similar to EPS on the front derailleur.