Boeing "Dream Liner" 787 set to challenge Airbus.



limerickman said:
Well Schlomo, seems advance sales of A380 indicate that it is a success.

SR71 - is this an anti-terwowist prototype ?

Advance sales mean nothing. Look at all the schmucks that waited until midnight to buy Windoze 98. Sure, stores were crowded but after the geeks got their copy, even OEM's had to include Win95 or NT with the bugware OS. I remember having to install NT on the new machines at work because the Network hasp for an application was incompatable and neither Microsoft nor the hasp manufacturer had a solution.

Talk in 5 years to see if the Scarebus 380 turns a profit. The hubcentric business model of aviation is a dying breed. The advances in engine technology (why does the 777 only have 2 main engines???) make the paltry drag penalties evaporate in the face of flexibility...turning around an A380 isn't going to happen on the drop of a hat.

Silly drunk, the SR-71 is the superlative of speed, altitude and distance in the aircraft world.
 
Various Boeing Financial results :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2970511.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3199490.stm

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/38c90dba-7518-11d9-9608-00000e2511c8.html

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/?031215ta_talk_surowiecki

2005 The Guardian :

Morningstar analyst Chris Lozier said the forecast was evidence that Boeing was holding ground against Airbus, which has taken the lead in the past two years. "The commercial market we knew was on the upswing," he said. "It was just a matter of how much of the upswing Boeing was going to collect."

The outlook is less rosy for Boeing's defence business, which now accounts for more than half of revenues. The Pentagon plans to cut $30bn in weapons costs over the next six years, according to a budget proposal last month.
 
Weisse Luft said:
Advance sales mean nothing. Look at all the schmucks that waited until midnight to buy Windoze 98. Sure, stores were crowded but after the geeks got their copy, even OEM's had to include Win95 or NT with the bugware OS. I remember having to install NT on the new machines at work because the Network hasp for an application was incompatable and neither Microsoft nor the hasp manufacturer had a solution.

Talk in 5 years to see if the Scarebus 380 turns a profit. The hubcentric business model of aviation is a dying breed. The advances in engine technology (why does the 777 only have 2 main engines???) make the paltry drag penalties evaporate in the face of flexibility...turning around an A380 isn't going to happen on the drop of a hat.

Silly drunk, the SR-71 is the superlative of speed, altitude and distance in the aircraft world.

We'll talk now Glickstein - EADS have already pre-sold 140 aircraft so far, they need to sell 250 aircraft to break even.

United Arab Emirates look like they're going to place another order with EADS.
 
Conniebiker said:
The unfortunate crash of the Concorde due to the FOD blowout was as much due to design as the circumstance. The plane was a good design and impeccably maintained(not a single Concorde crash up to that point), but it was vulnderable to fod through the wheel wells.
Whether or not it was a Conti plane that shed the fod I do not know, but I can say that there is a lot of fod on runways anyhow, it is just a matter of how large and is it harmful.
What worries me with scarebus(it just rolls off the tongue) is that they can tend to get ahead of themselves in introducing new things. I would hope they have learned a few good lessons along the way, as well as the world aviation community will be watching with a very critical eye due to the magnitude of the plane.
The market will be buying many of both new planes, but for different purposes. The more lucretive airlines(not american per se) will be wanting the status of having the largest civilian plane in existence. The figures may or may not balance out in the long run, but it is the same hype that the 747 had when it first arrived. Will it be another 747? Maybe.
Boeing is pursuing the smaller scale. It is a flight quality plane. My dad was one of several hundred design consultants on interior treatments. They are out to make the most comfortable plane in existence, and make passengers more interested in flying repeatedly.


Yes, there is a distinct difference in both markets.
A-380 is for a bigger, more luxury-focussed market.
US internal airlines have neither the market or the financial muscle to buy such an aircraft.
(On another thread, I have set out in detail, just how unsuccessful US airlines are).

However Boeings problem is that in the civil aviation market, they have lost ground consistently to EADS.
The A320 made major inroads in to the smaller plane market and this hurt Boeing.
In turn the civil aviation market in the US and the airlines in the USA, have performed poorly since 2000 and they have not been buying aircraft to replace their respective fleets.

Boeing 737 was/is a good aircraft.
But the market has now got two suppliers and EADS has brought some good competition to that market.
 
Conniebiker said:
The unfortunate crash of the Concorde due to the FOD blowout was as much due to design as the circumstance. The plane was a good design and impeccably maintained(not a single Concorde crash up to that point), but it was vulnderable to fod through the wheel wells.
Whether or not it was a Conti plane that shed the fod I do not know, but I can say that there is a lot of fod on runways anyhow, it is just a matter of how large and is it harmful.
What worries me with scarebus(it just rolls off the tongue) is that they can tend to get ahead of themselves in introducing new things. I would hope they have learned a few good lessons along the way, as well as the world aviation community will be watching with a very critical eye due to the magnitude of the plane.
The market will be buying many of both new planes, but for different purposes. The more lucretive airlines(not american per se) will be wanting the status of having the largest civilian plane in existence. The figures may or may not balance out in the long run, but it is the same hype that the 747 had when it first arrived. Will it be another 747? Maybe.
Boeing is pursuing the smaller scale. It is a flight quality plane. My dad was one of several hundred design consultants on interior treatments. They are out to make the most comfortable plane in existence, and make passengers more interested in flying repeatedly.
A rather pointless post since it has been well established that it was a lump of Boeing that caused the disaster. So much for the ground engineers at the terminal when it is obvious that they weren't diligent in their work.
Yeh well, just make sure that the Airbus gets a slot after the scrap merchants have collected all the Boeing bits off the runway.
Now just as long shot, you state that your Dad works on aircraft interior decor and design. Many years ago, about 1960+ coming back from France on a freight boat, hardly any passengers of course, I met a young man and I think his name was John Diefenbacker( spelling?) who designed aircraft interiors for Boeing. He had a swish E-Type Jaguar, and he shoved my bike in the somehow, and gave me a lift to London. He had his car booked on a freight plane to America.
I wouldn't mind an answer to this one.
 
zapper said:
Well, to be honest if one has a small boat one would have a truck or an SUV to haul it makes sense...Hound dogs? Well I think you and lim have been watching too many old tv shows..But c'mon down and I'll take you out to kill a few trees and some wild animals to eat unless of course you are busy boycotting KFC with the Reverend Al Sharpton...

Which begs the question...If he doesn't eat meat then how in the hell did he get so fat? :p
You do have a point there, one would require a p/u to transport watersport vehicles (oxymoron) I think jetski's are an abomination because they are dangerous in the hands of a drunken teen or for that matter a drunken adult, they make a noise that would peel the paint off of a DeRosa, create wakes to further damage the shoreline (as FredC has pointed out), kick-up H2O into other boaters field of vision and; interestingly enough; they run on petroleum, more than likely from the middle-east; furthering their tyrannical/monarchical reigns through American dollars. Those things are "optional luxuries" which the avg. person does'nt really need. Personally, I would put a whopping tax on them to compensate for the havoc they wreak, both physically & aesthetically. There, I'm done :eek:
 
davidmc said:
You do have a point there, one would require a p/u to transport watersport vehicles (oxymoron) I think jetski's are an abomination because they are dangerous in the hands of a drunken teen or for that matter a drunken adult, they make a noise that would peel the paint off of a DeRosa, create wakes to further damage the shoreline (as FredC has pointed out), kick-up H2O into other boaters field of vision and; interestingly enough; they run on petroleum, more than likely from the middle-east; furthering their tyrannical/monarchical reigns through American dollars. Those things are "optional luxuries" which the avg. person does'nt really need. Personally, I would put a whopping tax on them to compensate for the havoc they wreak, both physically & aesthetically. There, I'm done :eek:
Not fond of jetskis at all...concur with you comments concerning them...well, except for your save the environment tree huggin tirade... :rolleyes:
 
zapper said:
Not fond of jet skis at all...concur with you comments concerning them...well, except for your save the environment tree huggin tirade... :rolleyes:
My brother had one of those (aforementioned). He is a republican w/ a pick-up truck, hound dog, turkey fryer, ect & he's a vet (like me). I suspect he was given the false impression that one has to be a repub when one is in the military (he recently got out). I thought as much when I was in during Reagan's tenure. I have a good republican Friend, not to mention my brother; right now but I don't believe he is aware of some of the more elitist (financial & social) underpinnings of the party. Eviscerating Socail Security for example. The dem's have their problems too-no real message. I've voted straight 3rd party up until this last election where I thought the stakes were too high.
Don't you see :confused: it all goes back to Airbus :rolleyes:
 
davidmc said:
My brother had one of those (aforementioned). He is a republican w/ a pick-up truck, hound dog, turkey fryer, ect & he's a vet (like me). I suspect he was given the false impression that one has to be a repub when one is in the military (he recently got out). I thought as much when I was in during Reagan's tenure. I have a good republican Friend, not to mention my brother; right now but I don't believe he is aware of some of the more elitist (financial & social) underpinnings of the party. Eviscerating Socail Security for example. The dem's have their problems too-no real message. I've voted straight 3rd party up until this last election where I thought the stakes were too high.
Don't you see :confused: it all goes back to Airbus :rolleyes:
Your brother seems like a good guy...too bad you're not more like him...BTW my brother is a republican and he and his wife drive a Lexus, they owns a full size frenchy poodle and he's not a vet...Your stereotypes are killing me..You must watch "blue collar" tv...
 
zapper said:
Your brother seems like a good guy...too bad you're not more like him...BTW my brother is a republican and he and his wife drive a Lexus, they owns a full size frenchy poodle and he's not a vet...Your stereotypes are killing me..You must watch "blue collar" tv...
The only T.V. I ever watch is C-SPAN, Seinfeld & The Simpson's. It adds up to @ 45 min.'s/ week because I'm too busy w/ other endeavors such as bike riding or studying or working.
 
zapper said:
BTW my brother is a republican and he and his wife drive a Lexus,
of course, i wouldnt have expected anything less...

did you know that your IBM computer now comes with a made in China sticker on the back...no, they are not out-sourced....the Chinese bought the entire IBM manufacturing business and all the related technology that goes along with it.

hope you like your Jap Lexus and your IBM's chinese style..
 
MountainPro said:
of course, i wouldnt have expected anything less...

did you know that your IBM computer now comes with a made in China sticker on the back...no, they are not out-sourced....the Chinese bought the entire IBM manufacturing business and all the related technology that goes along with it.

hope you like your Jap Lexus and your IBM's chinese style..
I've yet to find a scottish automobile...what do you drive...a yugo?
 
MountainPro said:
of course, i wouldnt have expected anything less...

did you know that your IBM computer now comes with a made in China sticker on the back...no, they are not out-sourced....the Chinese bought the entire IBM manufacturing business and all the related technology that goes along with it.

hope you like your Jap Lexus and your IBM's chinese style..
IBM did'nt have a chance in that they did'nt license their product properly & therefore lost out in the long-run. This is why any Tom, **** or Harry can produce an IBM clone w/o having to pay IBM. It's their own fault for not protecting their product from replication. IBM is only a sticker on a box.
Also, Japanese make world class products. You don't agree :confused:
 
davidmc said:
IBM did'nt have a chance in that they did'nt license their product properly & therefore lost out in the long-run. This is why any Tom, **** or Harry can produce an IBM clone w/o having to pay IBM. It's their own fault for not protecting their product from replication. IBM is only a sticker on a box.
Also, Japanese make world class products. You don't agree :confused:

Its hard to license a machine built of off the shelf parts. The only element of the PC which made it work was the BIOS and some enteprising chaps near Houston TX "discovered" a way around the intellectual property rights when they divided their R&D into two groups. The company they started was Compaq, now a small part of the HP giant. That a small company could make a BIOS with 100% compatability opened the doors for another Texas company, Dell.

Since Microsoft was only beholden to IBM for the version of the OS, they were free to come out with their own version and the rest is history...well, if you discount the divorce when Big Blue wanted OS/2 and MS wanted something like a Mac OS.
 
Boeing took out a full page, color advertisement in the Washington Post today. I don't need to remind you how much that cost :eek: It also clarifies that the 7E7 designation is now going to be changed to the permanent 787 designation. That plane is pretty aint it?
 
davidmc said:
Boeing took out a full page, color advertisement in the Washington Post today. I don't need to remind you how much that cost :eek: It also clarifies that the 7E7 designation is now going to be changed to the permanent 787 designation. That plane is pretty aint it?
NO. But I like the Adobe Photoshop work on the sky.
 
davidmc said:
You do have a point there, one would require a p/u to transport watersport vehicles (oxymoron) I think jetski's are an abomination because they are dangerous in the hands of a drunken teen or for that matter a drunken adult, they make a noise that would peel the paint off of a DeRosa, create wakes to further damage the shoreline (as FredC has pointed out), kick-up H2O into other boaters field of vision and; interestingly enough; they run on petroleum, more than likely from the middle-east; furthering their tyrannical/monarchical reigns through American dollars. Those things are "optional luxuries" which the avg. person does'nt really need. Personally, I would put a whopping tax on them to compensate for the havoc they wreak, both physically & aesthetically. There, I'm done :eek:
I don't see why Bush can't slap a whopping great tax on petrol(gas) and diesel and call it a War Tax, I'm sure nobody would mind as it would fund wars against the Evil Empires for generations to come.
 
FredC said:
I don't see why Bush can't slap a whopping great tax on petrol(gas) and diesel and call it a War Tax, I'm sure nobody would mind as it would fund wars against the Evil Empires for generations to come.
You are the clever one now ;) .
 
I would be seriously miffed if Bushy did a gas tax. I already pay way too much for it in this state(its 20 cents cheaper in the next state over)
 
Conniebiker said:
I would be seriously miffed if Bushy did a gas tax. I already pay way too much for it in this state(its 20 cents cheaper in the next state over)
Yes but, do you know how much gas costs in, for example-England, France, Germany Spain, Japan :confused: Well, I lived in Japan & they paid @ $4.50/gal. (that was back in '89, mind you). It's no wonder all of these dolts in the U.S. drive a car 200yards to the store when they could walk/ride a bike. Its ludicrous :mad: We act as we have a "right" to cheap gas when we are one of the primary culprits of conspicious consumption. We're practically giving the sh*t away to begin with. What say you Conniebiker :confused: