Bontrager Race Lite Wheel question

[Joey]

Or any other wheel for that matter. How true can one expect a wheel to be.
My pads are about a penny width from the rim and do not touch while
spinning. If I lift the wheel and very softly bring the pads closer I
notice a slight deviation from round. I am relatively new to bikes so this
may be dumb to ask but is that reasonably true or am I having a problem.
The reason I worry is that I am a 195 pound rider and these wheels has a
somewhat low spoke count.

Thanks.

 

[jim beam]

Joey wrote:
> Or any other wheel for that matter. How true can one expect a wheel to be.
> My pads are about a penny width from the rim and do not touch while
> spinning. If I lift the wheel and very softly bring the pads closer I
> notice a slight deviation from round. I am relatively new to bikes so this
> may be dumb to ask but is that reasonably true or am I having a problem.
> The reason I worry is that I am a 195 pound rider and these wheels has a
> somewhat low spoke count.
>
> Thanks.
>
>

you mean they deviate from round while spinning, or one pad touches
before the other? if the latter, just center the caliper. if the
former, it's very hard to make a wheel perfectly round. if it's within
a reasonable tolerance, and less than a penny width is arguably ok,
you're fine. just monitor for any further deterioration in condition &
re-true if required.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Joey-<< Or any other wheel for that matter. How true can one expect a wheel to
be.
My pads are about a penny width from the rim and do not touch while
spinning. If I lift the wheel and very softly bring the pads closer I
notice a slight deviation from round. >><BR><BR>
<< The reason I worry is that I am a 195 pound rider and these wheels has a
somewhat low spoke count. >><BR><BR>

I answer-tow things to remember. One is that the truist a wheel will ever be is
when new and in a truing stand, in the hands of a good wheelbuilder.
Two, these wheels and a lot of others are not particularly true when new.
Either from the paired spoke, low number design or because they are porrly
made.
Three(I guess three things to remember), no such thing as a free lunch. These
wheels are not particularly suited for big riders, and a well made wheelset,
designed specifically for you, would be a better choice.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> Three(I guess three things to remember), no such thing as a free lunch.
> These
> wheels are not particularly suited for big riders, and a well made
> wheelset,
> designed specifically for you, would be a better choice.

But, he's not that big (only 195lbs), and should be well within the
capabilities of most wheelsets. I would argue that people spend too much
time worrying about whether a particular wheel is strong enough for their
weight while not considering tire width to be a more relevant concern.
Amazing how often I come across a 225+ pound guy who thinks there's no
reason he shouldn't be riding on 23c tires.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

 

[Chris Walters]

Joey wrote:
> The reason I worry is that I am a 195 pound rider
> and these wheels has a somewhat low spoke count.
>
> Thanks.

Joey,

I have a pair of race lites and have done best part of 5k on them this
year... oh yeah - I weigh ~230lbs. They've stayed nice and true (better than
th CXP33's before) all the time, and we have crappy roads in my part of the
world.

In fact the only things wrong with them is a) they're dirty at the moment
[1] and b) the Bontrager stickers are far too tacky for such an expensive
wheel.

Cheers,
Chris

[1] and with the weather the way it is at the moment, I really can't be
bothered to do anything about it!

--
_____________________________________________________

Chris Walters
Hungerford, UK
_____________________________________________________

 

[Joey]

Mike you deal in these wheels so you can give an expert opinion.
What about the first part of my question.
My pads are about a penny width from the rim and do not touch while
spinning. If I lift the wheel and very softly bring the pads closer I
notice a slight deviation from round while spinning.
Are these wheels reasonably true as described

Thanks

 

[[email protected]]

I'm no expert, but IMHO It sounds to me as if they are within
tolerance. Why not try this same experiment on brand-new wheels
mounted on display bikes?

r.b.

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> Mike you deal in these wheels so you can give an expert opinion.
> What about the first part of my question.
> My pads are about a penny width from the rim and do not touch while
> spinning. If I lift the wheel and very softly bring the pads closer I
> notice a slight deviation from round while spinning.
> Are these wheels reasonably true as described

Joey: I'm not entirely clear on what's going on here. When you talk about
"very softly bring the pads closer", the issue is how far the pads are
moving inward, nothing else. It sounds like everything's fine.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

 

[Ronald]

> They've stayed nice and true (better than the CXP33's before)

That must have been a bad build, CXP33's are one of the thoughest rims
available.


"Chris Walters" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Joey wrote:
> > The reason I worry is that I am a 195 pound rider
> > and these wheels has a somewhat low spoke count.
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> Joey,
>
> I have a pair of race lites and have done best part of 5k on them
this
> year... oh yeah - I weigh ~230lbs. They've stayed nice and true
(better than
> th CXP33's before) all the time, and we have crappy roads in my part
of the
> world.
>
> In fact the only things wrong with them is a) they're dirty at the
moment
> [1] and b) the Bontrager stickers are far too tacky for such an
expensive
> wheel.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
> [1] and with the weather the way it is at the moment, I really can't
be
> bothered to do anything about it!
>
> --
> _____________________________________________________
>
> Chris Walters
> Hungerford, UK
> _____________________________________________________
>
>
>

 

[Joey]

My question is are the wheels as straight as they should be. I think most
folks here think that they are. You must think so as well or you would have
said something I suppose.

Thanks for taking the time to answer;
Joey

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>> Mike you deal in these wheels so you can give an expert opinion.
>> What about the first part of my question.
>> My pads are about a penny width from the rim and do not touch while
>> spinning. If I lift the wheel and very softly bring the pads closer I
>> notice a slight deviation from round while spinning.
>> Are these wheels reasonably true as described
>
> Joey: I'm not entirely clear on what's going on here. When you talk about
> "very softly bring the pads closer", the issue is how far the pads are
> moving inward, nothing else. It sounds like everything's fine.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>

 

[daveornee]

My question is are the wheels as straight as they should be. I think most
folks here think that they are. You must think so as well or you would have
said something I suppose.

Thanks for taking the time to answer;
Joey

<SNIP>

You could likely get them more precise.
1. Are the spokes at proper tension and is the tension balanced?
2. Do your brake pads rub in places while cornering?
If *yes(1)* and *no(2)* in that order, you don't need to adjust the spokes.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Mike J-<< But, he's not that big (only 195lbs), and should be well within the
capabilities of most wheelsets. I would argue that people spend too much
time worrying about whether a particular wheel is strong enough for their
weight while not considering tire width to be a more relevant concern.
Amazing how often I come across a 225+ pound guy who thinks there's no
reason he shouldn't be riding on 23c tires. >><BR><BR>

I say. Mike you sure you don't own stock in Trek/Bontrager?
Wheels now made by Bontrager and others are on the light/whizbang side and ya
gotta agree, some outta the box are really horrible...made poorly.
He would save $, get a better hubset, have a slightly heavier but more reliable
wheel is some guy talked to him and designed a wheelset for him.

Will the low spoke count, paired spoke things work for him? Definite maybe, we
true these things all the time. But why oh why do people want the strongest
possible in frames/forks/stems/hbars, etc and skimp on wheels? "they are strong
enough!!"

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[ahimsa]

I'd have to disagree Peter. I deal with these wheels daily on our bikes and our customers bikes, and they are incredibly true out the box and after a lot of mileage. As far as poorly built, they are all handbuilt in the Trek facility in Wisconsin to some of the tightest tolerances in the industry. And as far as strength goes, I weigh 250 and I have never had a problem. Like someone else mentioned, try a little wider tire to protect the rim.

I am a big fan of handbuilt wheels, but they are not the answer to everyone's problems. I'd say the primary advantage to a traditional hadnbuilt wheel is the ability to customize specs, and the relative ease of repair. Stronger, truer? No. Not these days.

Peter said:
"Two, these wheels and a lot of others are not particularly true when new.
Either from the paired spoke, low number design or because they are porrly
made.
Three(I guess three things to remember), no such thing as a free lunch. These
wheels are not particularly suited for big riders, and a well made wheelset,
designed specifically for you, would be a better choice."

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles]

> I say. Mike you sure you don't own stock in Trek/Bontrager?

Nope, don't own any stock in the company. It's a closely-held private
company; the only outsider I know who's a stockholder is Lance.

> Wheels now made by Bontrager and others are on the light/whizbang side and
> ya
> gotta agree, some outta the box are really horrible...made poorly.
> He would save $, get a better hubset, have a slightly heavier but more
> reliable
> wheel is some guy talked to him and designed a wheelset for him.

There's a great difference in quality between the various "boutique"
wheelsets on the market. Some companies do everything in-house, while there
are at least a few that farm the lacing & building process out to
freelancers. Control & improvement of the process is key, as in any
manufacturing endeavor.

On the Bontrager wheels, we see very few issues on any of the Race-series
wheelsets. When we do, it's quickly brought to their attention and, if we're
not satisfied with the outcome, we bump it up the food chain to someone who
will see to it that something is done. Our inclusion in the feedback loop
obviously has an effect on our feelings about the product, no question.

Would someone actually save $$$ and get a better hubset with a custom rather
than a Bontrager RaceLite wheel? I'm unconvinced that's the case; the Hugi
hub on the RaceLite (not the overbuilt tandem vesion in this case) is easily
serviceable and hasn't given us grief. Not sure what else a hub is supposed
to do?

> Will the low spoke count, paired spoke things work for him? Definite
> maybe, we
> true these things all the time. But why oh why do people want the
> strongest
> possible in frames/forks/stems/hbars, etc and skimp on wheels? "they are
> strong
> enough!!"

Your last statement (made, I suspect, with great cynicism), is right on the
mark. Most boutique wheels *are* strong enough. Strong enough that it allows
someone to use a product that they like the appearance of, even if there
weren't any additional benefits. Wheels offer yet another way to
differentiate or classify a bike, little different from other things people
do in the name of style. I'm not saying that there aren't functional
benefits to some boutique wheels, nor am I saying that someone might not
prefer the appearance of a "classic" wheel. But the boutique wheels, for the
most part, are strong enough to do the job.

Does a Bontrager wheel represent the individual efforts of a masterful
craftsman? No. It represents the collective efforts of an engineering &
production team, who have found a way to manufacture something of high
quality on a large scale. Those doing the actual assembly are skilled yet
interchangeable. Does this matter? I suspect, to some, it does. They would
prefer knowing that a particular person personally hand-crafted their
wheelset for them. That's fine, I have no issue with that. But that's a
separate issue from suitability-to-task, yet I think many intentionally
muddy the two.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Mike J-<< But, he's not that big (only 195lbs), and should be well within
> the
> capabilities of most wheelsets. I would argue that people spend too much
> time worrying about whether a particular wheel is strong enough for their
> weight while not considering tire width to be a more relevant concern.
> Amazing how often I come across a 225+ pound guy who thinks there's no
> reason he shouldn't be riding on 23c tires. >><BR><BR>
>
> I say. Mike you sure you don't own stock in Trek/Bontrager?
> Wheels now made by Bontrager and others are on the light/whizbang side and
> ya
> gotta agree, some outta the box are really horrible...made poorly.
> He would save $, get a better hubset, have a slightly heavier but more
> reliable
> wheel is some guy talked to him and designed a wheelset for him.
>
> Will the low spoke count, paired spoke things work for him? Definite
> maybe, we
> true these things all the time. But why oh why do people want the
> strongest
> possible in frames/forks/stems/hbars, etc and skimp on wheels? "they are
> strong
> enough!!"
>
> Peter Chisholm
> Vecchio's Bicicletteria
> 1833 Pearl St.
> Boulder, CO, 80302
> (303)440-3535
> http://www.vecchios.com
> "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Mark Heiple]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> > I say. Mike you sure you don't own stock in Trek/Bontrager?
>
> Nope, don't own any stock in the company. It's a closely-held private
> company; the only outsider I know who's a stockholder is Lance.
>
> > Wheels now made by Bontrager and others are on the light/whizbang side and
> > ya
> > gotta agree, some outta the box are really horrible...made poorly.
> > He would save $, get a better hubset, have a slightly heavier but more
> > reliable
> > wheel is some guy talked to him and designed a wheelset for him.
>
> There's a great difference in quality between the various "boutique"
> wheelsets on the market. Some companies do everything in-house, while there
> are at least a few that farm the lacing & building process out to
> freelancers. Control & improvement of the process is key, as in any
> manufacturing endeavor.
>
> On the Bontrager wheels, we see very few issues on any of the Race-series
> wheelsets. When we do, it's quickly brought to their attention and, if we're
> not satisfied with the outcome, we bump it up the food chain to someone who
> will see to it that something is done. Our inclusion in the feedback loop
> obviously has an effect on our feelings about the product, no question.
>

< lots of stuff snipped >

How durable are the Bontrager Race wheels compared to the Rolf wheels
Trek used to use?

My Lemond came with Rolf Vectors, and the rear wheel wouldn't stay true
after I hit a fairly decent sized stick. At least 1 spoke lost tension,
I took it to bike shop for truing, went out for 1 ride, spokes went
slack again, etc. After 3 rounds of this, the bike shop gave up and
sent it back to trek for a rebuild. Took a month to get it back.

I was so ticked off with the LBS inability to fix it, and Trek's long
turn-around, I had a set of conventional wheels built, CXP33 36h (Thanks
for the advice Peter, they work great!).

I've been looking at new bikes, and everything comes with wheels with
not enough spokes now. All the Treks and their stepchildren come with
Bontrager wheels. The LBS doesn't seem to be very willing to trade the
wheels for something else. Seems the way to go these days is to buy a
frame and build a bike with the parts of your choice instead of buying
off the floor.

 

[dianne_1234]

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 22:20:56 -0500, Mark Heiple <[email protected]>
wrote:

>My Lemond came with Rolf Vectors, and the rear wheel wouldn't stay true
>after I hit a fairly decent sized stick. At least 1 spoke lost tension,
>I took it to bike shop for truing, went out for 1 ride, spokes went
>slack again, etc. After 3 rounds of this, the bike shop gave up and

Sounds like the rim got bent.

>sent it back to trek for a rebuild. Took a month to get it back.

That stinks. Couldn't the shop rebuild it with a replacement rim?

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> How durable are the Bontrager Race wheels compared to the Rolf wheels
> Trek used to use?
>
> My Lemond came with Rolf Vectors, and the rear wheel wouldn't stay true
> after I hit a fairly decent sized stick. At least 1 spoke lost tension,
> I took it to bike shop for truing, went out for 1 ride, spokes went
> slack again, etc. After 3 rounds of this, the bike shop gave up and
> sent it back to trek for a rebuild. Took a month to get it back.

As Dianne suggested, it sounds like the rim was physically bent when you hit
the "fairly decent sized stick." Trying to fix it by adjusting spoke
tension isn't going to do the trick, since the tension is going to be all
over the map as the spokes fight a bent rim. The options are to either
rebuild with a new rim, try and bend the original rim back into shape before
truing, or resort to a loctite-style material to keep the spokes from
loosening when they're too slack.

> I was so ticked off with the LBS inability to fix it, and Trek's long
> turn-around, I had a set of conventional wheels built, CXP33 36h (Thanks
> for the advice Peter, they work great!).

I can't say for sure what went on at the shop since I don't know them, nor
have I seen your wheel. But I can say that the experience is not typical for
dealing with a Rolve Vector (nor any other, for that matter) wheel.

> I've been looking at new bikes, and everything comes with wheels with
> not enough spokes now. All the Treks and their stepchildren come with
> Bontrager wheels. The LBS doesn't seem to be very willing to trade the
> wheels for something else. Seems the way to go these days is to buy a
> frame and build a bike with the parts of your choice instead of buying
> off the floor.

I wouldn't write off the Bontrager (or older Rolf, for that matter) wheels
because you had one bad experience. People have problems with conventional
wheels too, and conventional stock wheels are often built to lower quality
than lower-spoke-count wheels because there's less skilled process involved.
I'm not talking about a custom wheel that Peter or I would build; if I can't
build something bomb-proof, I'll hang up my Superman suit (mostly kidding).
But that's not normally required, and is virtually never the case with
"conventional" stock wheels on stock bikes. My guess is that very few of
them are even stress-relieved.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

 

[Mark Heiple]

In article <[email protected]>,
dianne_1234 <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 22:20:56 -0500, Mark Heiple <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >My Lemond came with Rolf Vectors, and the rear wheel wouldn't stay true
> >after I hit a fairly decent sized stick. At least 1 spoke lost tension,
> >I took it to bike shop for truing, went out for 1 ride, spokes went
> >slack again, etc. After 3 rounds of this, the bike shop gave up and
>
> Sounds like the rim got bent.
>
> >sent it back to trek for a rebuild. Took a month to get it back.
>
> That stinks. Couldn't the shop rebuild it with a replacement rim?

This was all a couple years ago, but I think the LBS told me Trek
replaced all the spokes and nipples. It looks like I got my old rim
back, no idea if it was bent. If it was, Trek must have fixed it, since
it is true and round now. I don't remember the LBS ever checking for a
bent rim, the guy just stuck it in the truing stand, tightened spokes,
then gave it back.

I've since learned that wasn't the best LBS in the world.

Since I got my CXP33 wheels, I haven't ridden the Rolfs much. I have an
old tire on it for the trainer when it's nasty outside.

 

[Mark Heiple]

> I wouldn't write off the Bontrager (or older Rolf, for that matter) wheels
> because you had one bad experience. People have problems with conventional
> wheels too, and conventional stock wheels are often built to lower quality
> than lower-spoke-count wheels because there's less skilled process involved.
> I'm not talking about a custom wheel that Peter or I would build; if I can't
> build something bomb-proof, I'll hang up my Superman suit (mostly kidding).
> But that's not normally required, and is virtually never the case with
> "conventional" stock wheels on stock bikes. My guess is that very few of
> them are even stress-relieved.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

I actually had 2 bad experiences. I tried a set of Ksyrium wheels for a
while, that rear wouldn't stay true either, and I didn't hit anything.
Spokes kept going slack.

 

[H. M. Leary]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" <[email protected]> wrote:

snip

>
> On the Bontrager wheels, we see very few issues on any of the Race-series
> wheelsets. When we do, it's quickly brought to their attention and, if we're
> not satisfied with the outcome, we bump it up the food chain to someone who
> will see to it that something is done. Our inclusion in the feedback loop
> obviously has an effect on our feelings about the product, no question.
>
snip

There are about 50 Trek OCLV bikes in my local riding club. At least half of
them have a problem with the bearings with these Race Lite and Race X Lite
wheelsets. I was suprised at the increase in riders who discovered they had a
problem after a meeting in which the subject was discussed.

Trek does not acknowledge nor give a tinkers damn that the bearings they supply
with these wheels are basically cheap Japanese ( Shimano ) products.

I went through hoops with Trek Technical people, and with one of the owners of
Trek. Their only response was that the bearings had ³less² rolling
resistance...???

If you have this problem, get DT Swiss bearings from Hugi. Problem solved.

BTW, Mike J. Thanks for your help in this.

HAND