Book review: Lance Armstrong Tour de Force



davidbod

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Whose to say they gained anything from having one of the bikes Jan rode. Looking at the Trek bike it looks nothing like anything Jan has ever ridden in the Tour. And if they did gain something then doesn't that just mean that they were both using an equally good bike, which would mean the race was then just down to the human.
 

Capt.Injury

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davidbod said:
Whose to say they gained anything from having one of the bikes Jan rode. Looking at the Trek bike it looks nothing like anything Jan has ever ridden in the Tour. And if they did gain something then doesn't that just mean that they were both using an equally good bike, which would mean the race was then just down to the human.
Since i jsut got home from work I missed the entrance of this, and eventhough in the book it did talk about his spying, and didn't use the model in the TDF.

This bike was the famous "secret TT bike" that he talked about all during the winter months, but in fact the bike he used in 2004, was basically the same bike as the year before. The difference, was the pedals were closer together (By 18 mm I believe), but the bike produced slower finishes in the last few kms for Lance. The bike though proved to do wonders for Ekimov and a few others the book named. The problem with Lance, was something along the lines of his misaligned back or something along those lines.

You wrote the book title is Tour De Force, by my copy of this book is simply titles Lance Armstrong's War. The book is not really a pro Lance book. IN fact, the book has a chapter where he talked with David Walsh (The author of LA Confidential), talking about how in fact Walsh liked Armstrong back in 1994, and in fact wrote about him in his book Inside the Tour De France. He came to the 1999 TDF seeing if the speeds would slow thanks to the Festina scandal, but in fact they were up, and through Armstrongs actions, Walsh felt like he was somebody with something to hide. IT also include comments from Landis and Hamilton, which talk about Armstrong being an almost impossible person to get along with as friends.
 

meehs

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Capt.Injury said:
Since i jsut got home from work I missed the entrance of this, and eventhough in the book it did talk about his spying, and didn't use the model in the TDF.

This bike was the famous "secret TT bike" that he talked about all during the winter months, but in fact the bike he used in 2004, was basically the same bike as the year before. The difference, was the pedals were closer together (By 18 mm I believe), but the bike produced slower finishes in the last few kms for Lance. The bike though proved to do wonders for Ekimov and a few others the book named. The problem with Lance, was something along the lines of his misaligned back or something along those lines.

You wrote the book title is Tour De Force, by my copy of this book is simply titles Lance Armstrong's War. The book is not really a pro Lance book. IN fact, the book has a chapter where he talked with David Walsh (The author of LA Confidential), talking about how in fact Walsh liked Armstrong back in 1994, and in fact wrote about him in his book Inside the Tour De France. He came to the 1999 TDF seeing if the speeds would slow thanks to the Festina scandal, but in fact they were up, and through Armstrongs actions, Walsh felt like he was somebody with something to hide. IT also include comments from Landis and Hamilton, which talk about Armstrong being an almost impossible person to get along with as friends.

I was reading through this thread and I was going to say the same thing. Much to the dismay of the bike designers and marketing people at Trek, Armstrong didn't even ride the new "secret weapon" in '04. He wasn't comfortable on the bike and despite the fact that it proved to be technically "faster" in the wind tunnel, the fact that he was uncomfortable in the new position actually slowed him down. Most of the rest of the USPS team rode the new bike but LA was riding pretty much the same bike he rode in '03. Not a fact that Trek is dying to let everyone know so it hasn't been discussed in the press much but they did talk about it on "The Lance Chronicles" on OLN.

And aside from that... WHO CARES??? USPS/Trek/LA didn't break any UCI rules or any laws. And does anyone really beleive that if Armstrong's people hadn't obtained a replica of JU's bike it would've made one iota of difference in the outcome of the '04 TdF? If it were really that big of a secret (like others have said) TM/Giant wouldn't have sold a copy of the TT bike to some "unknown triathlete". If TM wants to get a copy of LA's bike they can go the Trek dealer and buy one. Gimme a break! This is just another instance of the Armstrong detractors trying to make a big deal out of nothing. I'm not even an "LA cheerleader" but this deal with people disecting every little thing he or his team does and trying to use it to make LA look like a criminal is getting really, really old!
 

rejobako

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meehs said:
I'm not even an "LA cheerleader" but this deal with people disecting every little thing he or his team does and trying to use it to make LA look like a criminal is getting really, really old!
I agree, but it's par for the course. Those who profess to have "lost respect" for Armstrong for this incident (or others) have been looking for reasons all along. As for the underlying issue, I'm all for fair play, but I also think stupidity deserves its own reward. I'm not sure how much more carelessly the "big bike frame secret" could have been guarded, except perhaps by publishing the design specifications on the internet.
 

bobke

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meehs said:
I was reading through this thread and I was going to say the same thing. Much to the dismay of the bike designers and marketing people at Trek, Armstrong didn't even ride the new "secret weapon" in '04. He wasn't comfortable on the bike and despite the fact that it proved to be technically "faster" in the wind tunnel, the fact that he was uncomfortable in the new position actually slowed him down. Most of the rest of the USPS team rode the new bike but LA was riding pretty much the same bike he rode in '03. Not a fact that Trek is dying to let everyone know so it hasn't been discussed in the press much but they did talk about it on "The Lance Chronicles" on OLN.

And aside from that... WHO CARES??? USPS/Trek/LA didn't break any UCI rules or any laws. And does anyone really beleive that if Armstrong's people hadn't obtained a replica of JU's bike it would've made one iota of difference in the outcome of the '04 TdF? If it were really that big of a secret (like others have said) TM/Giant wouldn't have sold a copy of the TT bike to some "unknown triathlete". If TM wants to get a copy of LA's bike they can go the Trek dealer and buy one. Gimme a break! This is just another instance of the Armstrong detractors trying to make a big deal out of nothing. I'm not even an "LA cheerleader" but this deal with people disecting every little thing he or his team does and trying to use it to make LA look like a criminal is getting really, really old!

Totally agree. In my post I was trying to point out the obvious, but anyway...
 

Ullefan

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Call me a 'cynic' or 'LA detractor' if you will, but I wouldn't be suprised if Lance's cronies told him (author) that he needed to change his story to protect Lance's heroic image. They would have undoubtedly read all the book before it went to be published. I would also be suprised that Lance wouldn't know about this 'flawed narrow-bike' much earlier than the proposed March, since the project began in August. :rolleyes: Don't tell me that March was the first time he rode it, when he was telling everyone how ''fast this new bike is'' and how ''it's going to kill everyone'' back in January/Febuary? In the book it show's how Lance goes into detail about this fabulous new bike that is very fast, ''the fastest he's ridden'', then all of a sudden...TA-DAAAAAA, it goes in the trash. Not very convincing if you ask me.
 

meehs

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Ullefan said:
...I wouldn't be suprised if Lance's cronies told him (author) that he needed to change his story to protect Lance's heroic image.

Yeah right. It'll never happen. It'll be like all of the horrible repercussions that Armstrong was going to recieve (according to some) as a result of his "chasing down of Simeoni" (which, BTW I happen to agree was out of line). What happened? Nothing. They didn't break any rules and they're not going to "go after" the author. More wishful speculation on the part of the naysayers.

Ullefan said:
...I would also be suprised that Lance wouldn't know about this 'flawed narrow-bike' much earlier than the proposed March, since the project began in August. :rolleyes: Don't tell me that March was the first time he rode it, when he was telling everyone how ''fast this new bike is'' and how ''it's going to kill everyone'' back in January/Febuary? In the book it show's how Lance goes into detail about this fabulous new bike that is very fast, ''the fastest he's ridden'', then all of a sudden...TA-DAAAAAA, it goes in the trash. Not very convincing if you ask me.

Lance certainly was testing the bike early on and he was talking about how "fast" the bike was and saying how he was going to crush everyone on the "secret weapon". This could be considered the "typical Armstrong style" of psyching-out his opponents IMO. It was proven to be a faster TT bike in testing without question. He actually did ride the bike in some races leading up to the TdF with mixed results. As the season progressed and LA had more time in on the bike he started complaining that he was uncomfortable on the bike. They did some testing and direct comparisons between LA's times on the two bikes proved that he was in fact faster overall on his old TT bike. So when the TdF rolled around Armstrong (quietly) rode the "old" bike. And no, it wasn't (TAAAA DAAAA :rolleyes: ) thrown in the trash. Eki and some of the other USPS riders had great results with the bike. At least that's how it was portrayed on OLN and I don't see why they'd portray it that way if it wasn't in fact how it really went down. It was obvious that Trek wasn't happy at all that Armstrong wouldn't even be riding the hot new TT bike that they spent tons of time and money on in the TdF. You don't have to believe it (I'm sure you won't because you obviously don't want to). Clearly your mind is already made-up.

So often I find myself "defending" Lance Armstrong on this forum even though I'm not really a huge fan. It's just that the detractors are so embarrassingly eager to dig-up dirt on the guy that I can't resist!
 

Ullefan

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We'll never know the truth! And I didn't go out of my way to ''dig up dirt'' on Lance. Like I mentioned, I read it in a book and it suprised me that they'd go to those lengths, lengths which I find morally objectionable. Even if he did ride his older bike, it doesn't take anything away from what they did.
 

rejobako

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Ullefan said:
We'll never know the truth! And I didn't go out of my way to ''dig up dirt'' on Lance.
No, but you do seem to have gone out of your way to make assumptions about his motives. Your post #26 on this page contains six sentences. The first four contain guesses about what you think might have happened, to set up your conclusions in the last two sentences. In the meantime, you're all ****** at Armstrong because he didn't ride a bike using technology allegedly "stolen" by someone associated with his team who basically bought it on the open market using the sinister, highly-advanced technique of: using an alias. :eek: Of all the things in the world to be outraged about, this would probably rank next to last on my list, right in front of the Milli Vanilli scandal.
 

Ullefan

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rejobako said:
No, but you do seem to have gone out of your way to make assumptions about his motives. Your post #26 on this page contains six sentences. The first four contain guesses about what you think might have happened, to set up your conclusions in the last two sentences..
Nice work Detective Holmes.

rejobako said:
In the meantime, you're all ****** at Armstrong because he didn't ride a bike using technology allegedly "stolen" by someone associated with his team who basically bought it on the open market using the sinister, highly-advanced technique of: using an alias.
No, I'm suprised that they went to those lengths of gaining access to Jan's bike, posing as a professional triathlete, fraud. Doesn't show how confident Lance was in his own abilities.

rejobako said:
Of all the things in the world to be outraged about, this would probably rank next to last on my list, right in front of the Milli Vanilli scandal.
What's Milli Vanilli?:rolleyes:
 

Basel Bill

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noonievut said:
On the subject of books, I would like to read cycling books that are non-training and (sorry) non-Lance. Other than The Race & The Yellow Jersey, I can't seem to find any worth reading.

A classic novel is 'The Rider' by Tim Krabbe (who's also written other cycling novels). You may also like 'Frency Revolutions: Cyling the Tour de France' by Tim Moore.
 

BomoSammo

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noonievut said:
On the subject of books, I would like to read cycling books that are non-training and (sorry) non-Lance. Other than The Race & The Yellow Jersey, I can't seem to find any worth reading.

If you know of any, especially if you can find them in North America, can you please post here.


French Revolutions by Tim Moore is the funniest book i have read for a long time - you can buy it from Amazon in the US.
 

Roadrash Dunc

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whiteboytrash said:
Two of the best non-Lance 'I'm a really nice guy who happens to be a awesome cyclist in my own words' books are below..... if you can read German make sure read Jan's autobiograhphy 'Ganz oder gar nicht'................... great read without the Lance 'pumps his own tyres' parts.... he is honest and open.......



Do you know if theres a way to get that book in English? I cant read German and surely the publisher must realise a Jan ulrich autobiography would sell well to the English speaking world - at least well enough to make the translation and printing worthwhile.

Im currently reading the Tour De Force book by Dan Coyle.
From what ive read so far i dont think the guys a particulary talented writer , in fact his 'style' or lack of is rather annoying , but he has done his homework and the content is interesting and enjoyable and worth the money.
 

Ullefan

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Roadrash Dunc said:
Im currently reading the Tour De Force book by Dan Coyle.
From what ive read so far i dont think the guys a particulary talented writer , in fact his 'style' or lack of is rather annoying , but he has done his homework and the content is interesting and enjoyable and worth the money.[/size][/font]
His 'style' is perfectly good IMO, he's an accomplished writer. You must be one miserable person if you get disturbed by an author's 'style' or lack of.
 

Roadrash Dunc

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Ullefan said:
His 'style' is perfectly good IMO, he's an accomplished writer. You must be one miserable person if you get disturbed by an author's 'style' or lack of.
lol what?

I just said its an interesting read and worth the money and Coyle has sepnt alot of time and done his homework on the subject matter to good effect : i just dont think the guys a brilliant writer thats all.
You do - good for you , im not going to call you names for it though.
Sheesh , get a grip mate.Theres nothing wrong in not liking a writers 'style'. :rolleyes:


Whiteboytrash if you come back to this thread , do you know if the Ulrich bio is printed in English atall?
 

Ullefan

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Roadrash Dunc said:
lol what?

I just said its an interesting read and worth the money and Coyle has sepnt alot of time and done his homework on the subject matter to good effect : i just dont think the guys a brilliant writer thats all.
You do - good for you , im not going to call you names for it though.
Sheesh , get a grip mate.Theres nothing wrong in not liking a writers 'style'. :rolleyes:


Whiteboytrash if you come back to this thread , do you know if the Ulrich bio is printed in English atall?
Seems like you went out of your way to criticing him as soon as you opened your mouth, calling his style 'annoying.' Well if you thought that, then could I ask you to explain exactly what was so 'annoying' about his 'style?' From what I've read, it's very good and I can't find a flaw, nor am I looking for one, it's just a book about cycling, there aren't that many, you should be grateful. Now, if you were talking about the Linda Armstrong book, I might have understood your stance.

So what annoyed you about his style, Shakespeare? :rolleyes:
 

Roadrash Dunc

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Ullefan said:
Seems like you went out of your way to criticing him as soon as you opened your mouth, calling his style 'annoying.' Well if you thought that, then could I ask you to explain exactly what was so 'annoying' about his 'style?' From what I've read, it's very good and I can't find a flaw, nor am I looking for one, it's just a book about cycling, there aren't that many, you should be grateful. Now, if you were talking about the Linda Armstrong book, I might have understood your stance.

So what annoyed you about his style, Shakespeare? :rolleyes:
So basically its only ok to dislike something you do (in this case the Linda Armstrong book , which i cant comment on as i havent read it and am unlikely to) but if someone dislikes something that you dont then theyre miserable.Very tolerant of you.

Going out of my way to critcize him? I said i am ENJOYING his book and find it very interesting.
Mate , youve got some issues.
Take it easy.

Im done here - whiteboy , if you know anything atall about the Ulrich bio send me a PM if you dont mind? Thanks.
 

frank z.

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Ullefan said:
Basically, Lance's cronies wanted to build the fastest TT bike in the world for the 2004 tour. They had seen Ullrich's success in the 2003 tour. So they went about obtaining a copy of his bike. The bike was made by Andy Walser in Suisse who only made a few frames a year for pros. They knew he'd refuse to sell a frame to trek, so they sent a european salesperson to his shop posed as a 'triathlete'. They got a bike, and by the time Walser discovered his true identity, the bike was already on its way to treks headquaters.

This may seem perfectly legal, but in my eyes that's not right. No-one other than Lance's cronies would go to that extent just to win the tour. Is that what Indurain would do? Is that what Merckx would do? To me that's not the act of a 'hero'.
I think Walser did know from the begining who did order the bike. Mr. Wagner was the chief of trek europe and Walser works for Team Gerolsteiner. They did use KLEIN bikes this time and who is the owner of KLEIN? A short way to find out true identity.
And by the way, why should he sell bikes to Bianchi and Giant and not to Trek the same time?
 

Ullefan

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Roadrash Dunc said:
So basically its only ok to dislike something you do (in this case the Linda Armstrong book , which i cant comment on as i havent read it and am unlikely to) but if someone dislikes something that you dont then theyre miserable.Very tolerant of you.

Going out of my way to critcize him? I said i am ENJOYING his book and find it very interesting.
Mate , youve got some issues.
Take it easy.

Im done here - whiteboy , if you know anything atall about the Ulrich bio send me a PM if you dont mind? Thanks.
Avoiding the question, genius.
You completely contradict yourself. In your first sentence, you say how he ''isn't a particulary talented writer and his style or lack of is annoying.''
You then say, ''he's done his homework and the content is good and enjoyable.'' I don't know how your mind works, but that's a complete contradiction to me, matey.
 

whiteboytrash

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Roadrash Dunc said:
Do you know if theres a way to get that book in English? I cant read German and surely the publisher must realise a Jan ulrich autobiography would sell well to the English speaking world - at least well enough to make the translation and printing worthwhile.
No English translation unfortunately...... sad as it’s a good read... a very real account of his career and admits his failings... (food, growing up a TDF winner at 22, booze etc.)
 

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