boosting basic endurance

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by Eric Friedman, Sep 14, 2003.

  1. I'm 33, 192 lbs, and started swimming seriously again in November after a 15 year hiatus. I still
    have pretty decent speed, but my basic endurance is terrible and I'd like some suggestions for
    drills to improve it.

    To quantify: I can do a 50 yd free @100% effort in 28 seconds.

    I can do 20x50 free on 1 minute, pacing myself to swim the distance in 40 seconds.

    I swam a 500 free for time the other day, trying to hold that same 40 seconds/50 yards pace, but my
    50 yard splits were more like 46 seconds. My heartrate was much too high at the end of this swim.

    My coach says that to improve basic endurance I need to swim at or below 80% effort. So, since the
    maximum heart rate for my age is (220 - 33) 187, 80% of that is ~ 150.

    I have a very hard time keeping under that heart rate. Even with 20 seconds rest on the 20x50s, I'm
    still climbing up to 160 or so. After the 500 it's more like 180, 190.

    I am, of course, constantly working on technique -- front quandrant swimming; decent roll;
    streamline off the wall; relaxed stroke; lengthening my stroke (it usually takes me 12-15 strokes
    per 25). The problem is that as I get fatigued, my form goes to pieces, which reduces my efficiency
    in the water, which makes me more fatigued....

    What do folks-in-the-know do to improve basic endurance? Longer continuous swims at a glacial pace?
    Shorter swims with more rest (the reason I've been doing 20x50)?

    I'm looking for workout ideas I can use to supplement my coached training. We only meet twice a
    week, but I swim twice more and would like to use that time to improve my basic endurance.

    Thanks in advance, Eric
     
    Tags:


  2. Dakitty

    Dakitty Guest

    "Eric Friedman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I'm 33, 192 lbs, and started swimming seriously again in November after a 15 year hiatus. I still
    > have pretty decent speed, but my basic endurance is terrible and I'd like some suggestions for
    > drills to improve it.
    >
    > To quantify: I can do a 50 yd free @100% effort in 28 seconds.
    >
    > I can do 20x50 free on 1 minute, pacing myself to swim the distance in 40 seconds.
    >
    > I swam a 500 free for time the other day, trying to hold that same 40 seconds/50 yards pace,
    > but my 50 yard splits were more like 46 seconds. My heartrate was much too high at the end of
    > this swim.
    >
    > My coach says that to improve basic endurance I need to swim at or below 80% effort. So, since the
    > maximum heart rate for my age is (220 - 33) 187, 80% of that is ~ 150.
    >
    > I have a very hard time keeping under that heart rate. Even with 20 seconds rest on the 20x50s,
    > I'm still climbing up to 160 or so. After the 500 it's more like 180, 190.

    You may need to learn to pace yourself a bit better then. Slow down a tad till your heart rate is in
    the target range. Getting through the sets as fast as you can isn't always all there is to it.

    I can swim a single 50M and compleately wear myself out (for the next 5 or 10 minutes), or I can
    swim 800 and not breathe heavy at all. Find the speed where your heart rate is lower, if that means
    50 or 55s per 50, so be it, for now. Once you find that pace, and you don't wear yourself out as
    much on the sets, you'll be able to swim longer.... and with practice, your speed will pick up. Your
    body will get more efficient when you don't have to stop and take a rest, but when it is forcet to
    do a constant steady supply of blood and oxygen etc... to the muscles, while you're at a certain
    pace. Doing sprint sets, and driving your heart rate up every time, just to maintain speed will not
    work on your endurance. You need to mix it up.

    For me.. after the warmup, I'm good for several sprints, then I need to take a few minutes break,
    then I go into endurance sets.

    Also, do something like 4x400, start off slower, and make each 400 a tad faster then the previous
    one, 30 seconds rest in between. Do a first set at 50sec per 50, see what your heart rate does at
    the end of
    400.... Then do the nect one at a bit faster pace...

    Our coach has us do these variable paced sets all the time. Sometimes increasing speed from set 1-4,
    other times decreasing, sometimes with other strategies.

    > I am, of course, constantly working on technique -- front quandrant swimming; decent roll;
    > streamline off the wall; relaxed stroke; lengthening my stroke (it usually takes me 12-15 strokes
    > per 25). The problem is that as I get fatigued, my form goes to pieces, which reduces my
    > efficiency in the water, which makes me more fatigued....

    yeap... Start off slower, and you'll be able to hold the form longer, less fatigue. You know, not
    every training set is a race against the clock. Sometimes looong relaxed sets at what **seems to be
    30%** effort give you time to 'feel' the technique.

    > What do folks-in-the-know do to improve basic endurance? Longer continuous swims at a glacial
    > pace? Shorter swims with more rest (the reason I've been doing 20x50)?

    I think foir endurance you need to work on longer sets. It almost sounds like you haven't found your
    confortable pace yet, the pace where you feel like you could swim forever, and at the end of a 300Y
    workout leaves you wanting to swim more. You know, the pace you would use to swim the 1500 or an 800
    race, or a 5000M postal swim.

    > I'm looking for workout ideas I can use to supplement my coached training. We only meet twice a
    > week, but I swim twice more and would like to use that time to improve my basic endurance.

    What is the total yardage of your workouts?

    > Thanks in advance, Eric
     
  3. Adrian

    Adrian Guest

    Hi Eric,

    I only have limited experience of swimming training so I've been drawing on many years of rowing
    training to help guide me. One of the protocols we used to good effect in rowing is what we called
    Alternate Work. The idea is that you perform many relatively short efforts (45-90 secs) at a
    moderate pace with only brief recovery (10-20 secs) between the efforts. The advantage of this
    sort of workout is that it trains you to work at a good pace but the frequent breaks give you time
    to re-focus on your form so you don't just end up schlepping (sp?) up and down the pool developing
    bad habits.

    Translating this into swimming, try thinking of your 20x50 not as sprints but 1x1000 of Alternate.
    Swim each 50 at the pace that you'd like to hold during a 800 swim. As you get fitter you'll be able
    to reduce the rest intervals and/or lengthen the efforts until you're swimming at your desired pace
    almost continuously.

    As for your heartrate, formulae like (220 - age) are so inaccurate that they're really not worth
    bothering with. Some people have higher heartrates than others, that's just the way it is. My max
    heartrate rowing was ~185 (at age 30) whereas the max for one of my clubmates (who was 10 yrs older
    than me) was ~215. Ideally you shouldn't be gasping for air, your shoulders shouldn't be dropping
    off and you should be able to hold a consistant pace for the duration of your piece.

    Hope that helps,

    Adrian.
     
  4. In article <[email protected]>, DaKitty <[email protected]> wrote: < <"Eric
    Friedman" <[email protected]> wrote in message <news:[email protected]... <
    <You may need to learn to pace yourself a bit better then. Slow down a tad <till your heart rate is
    in the target range.

    Understood -- that's exactly what I'm working on.

    <Also, do something like 4x400, start off slower, and make each 400 a tad <faster then the previous
    one, 30 seconds rest in between. <Do a first set at 50sec per 50, see what your heart rate does at
    the end of
    <400.... Then do the nect one at a bit faster pace...

    Sounds like a good set -- I will try this one.

    <Sometimes looong relaxed sets at what **seems to be 30%** effort give you <time to 'feel' the
    technique.

    *smile* it's sometimes really hard to slow to that pace, but you are right, of course.

    <I think foir endurance you need to work on longer sets. It almost sounds <like you haven't found
    your confortable pace yet, the pace where you feel <like you could swim forever, and at the end of a
    300Y workout leaves you <wanting to swim more. You know, the pace you would use to swim the 1500 or
    <an 800 race, or a 5000M postal swim.

    That's exactly the problem.

    <> I'm looking for workout ideas I can use to supplement my coached <> training. We only meet twice
    a week, but I swim twice more and <> would like to use that time to improve my basic endurance. <
    <What is the total yardage of your workouts?

    We generally do about 2500 yards: sometimes more, sometimes less.

    thanks again, Eric
     
  5. Chris

    Chris Guest

    "DaKitty" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Eric Friedman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > I'm 33, 192 lbs, and started swimming seriously again in November after a 15 year hiatus. I
    > > still have pretty decent speed, but my basic endurance is terrible and I'd like some suggestions
    > > for drills to improve it.
    > >
    > > To quantify: I can do a 50 yd free @100% effort in 28 seconds.
    > >
    > > I can do 20x50 free on 1 minute, pacing myself to swim the distance in 40 seconds.
    > >
    > > I swam a 500 free for time the other day, trying to hold that same 40 seconds/50 yards pace,
    > > but my 50 yard splits were more like 46 seconds. My heartrate was much too high at the end of
    > > this swim.
    > >
    > > My coach says that to improve basic endurance I need to swim at or below 80% effort. So, since
    > > the maximum heart rate for my age is (220 - 33) 187, 80% of that is ~ 150.
    > >
    > > I have a very hard time keeping under that heart rate. Even with 20 seconds rest on the 20x50s,
    > > I'm still climbing up to 160 or so. After the 500 it's more like 180, 190.
    >
    >
    > You may need to learn to pace yourself a bit better then. Slow down a tad till your heart rate is
    > in the target range. Getting through the sets as fast as you can isn't always all there is to it.
    >
    > I can swim a single 50M and compleately wear myself out (for the next 5 or 10 minutes), or I can
    > swim 800 and not breathe heavy at all. Find the speed where your heart rate is lower, if that
    > means 50 or 55s per 50, so be it, for now. Once you find that pace, and you don't wear yourself
    > out as much on the sets, you'll be able to swim longer.... and with practice, your speed will pick
    > up. Your body will get more efficient when you don't have to stop and take a rest, but when it is
    > forcet to do a constant steady supply of blood and oxygen etc... to the muscles, while you're at a
    > certain pace. Doing sprint sets, and driving your heart rate up every time, just to maintain speed
    > will not work on your endurance. You need to mix it up.
    >
    > For me.. after the warmup, I'm good for several sprints, then I need to take a few minutes break,
    > then I go into endurance sets.
    >
    > Also, do something like 4x400, start off slower, and make each 400 a tad faster then the previous
    > one, 30 seconds rest in between. Do a first set at 50sec per 50, see what your heart rate does at
    > the end of
    > 400.... Then do the nect one at a bit faster pace...
    >
    > Our coach has us do these variable paced sets all the time. Sometimes increasing speed from set
    > 1-4, other times decreasing, sometimes with other strategies.
    >
    >
    > > I am, of course, constantly working on technique -- front quandrant swimming; decent roll;
    > > streamline off the wall; relaxed stroke; lengthening my stroke (it usually takes me 12-15
    > > strokes per 25). The problem is that as I get fatigued, my form goes to pieces, which reduces my
    > > efficiency in the water, which makes me more fatigued....
    >
    > yeap... Start off slower, and you'll be able to hold the form longer, less fatigue. You know, not
    > every training set is a race against the clock. Sometimes looong relaxed sets at what **seems to
    > be 30%** effort give you time to 'feel' the technique.
    >
    > > What do folks-in-the-know do to improve basic endurance? Longer continuous swims at a glacial
    > > pace? Shorter swims with more rest (the reason I've been doing 20x50)?
    >
    > I think foir endurance you need to work on longer sets. It almost sounds like you haven't found
    > your confortable pace yet, the pace where you feel like you could swim forever, and at the end of
    > a 300Y workout leaves you wanting to swim more. You know, the pace you would use to swim the 1500
    > or an 800 race, or a 5000M postal swim.
    >
    > > I'm looking for workout ideas I can use to supplement my coached training. We only meet twice a
    > > week, but I swim twice more and would like to use that time to improve my basic endurance.
    >
    > What is the total yardage of your workouts?
    >
    > > Thanks in advance, Eric

    To what extent does endurance swimming wreak your sprinting?--or does it? At masters meets I tend to
    swim 50 meter events. My personal bests are from two years ago. Since then I have gone downhill. I
    attributed it perhaps to my taking up longer swimming (our swimming club's so-called "open water"
    sessions, which are coached sessions that are partly intervals and partly "swim umpteen minutes").
    Maglischo in "Swimming Even Faster" on pp. 107-08 says the question is "far from resolved," but that
    he is convinced that endurance training "can reduce anaerobic capacity." I wonder what he says in
    his latest book (which I don't have)?
     
  6. Dakitty

    Dakitty Guest

    "Eric Friedman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, DaKitty <[email protected]> wrote: < <"Eric
    > Friedman" <[email protected]> wrote in message <news:[email protected]... <
    > <You may need to learn to pace yourself a bit better then. Slow down a tad <till your heart rate
    > is in the target range.
    >
    > Understood -- that's exactly what I'm working on.
    >
    > <Also, do something like 4x400, start off slower, and make each 400 a tad <faster then the
    > previous one, 30 seconds rest in between. <Do a first set at 50sec per 50, see what your heart
    > rate does at the end
    of
    > <400.... Then do the nect one at a bit faster pace...
    >
    > Sounds like a good set -- I will try this one.
    >
    > <Sometimes looong relaxed sets at what **seems to be 30%** effort give you <time to 'feel' the
    > technique.
    >
    > *smile* it's sometimes really hard to slow to that pace, but you are right, of course.
    >
    > <I think foir endurance you need to work on longer sets. It almost sounds <like you haven't found
    > your confortable pace yet, the pace where you feel <like you could swim forever, and at the end of
    > a 300Y workout leaves you <wanting to swim more. You know, the pace you would use to swim the 1500
    or
    > <an 800 race, or a 5000M postal swim.
    >
    > That's exactly the problem.
    >
    > <> I'm looking for workout ideas I can use to supplement my coached <> training. We only meet
    > twice a week, but I swim twice more and <> would like to use that time to improve my basic
    > endurance. < <What is the total yardage of your workouts?
    >
    > We generally do about 2500 yards: sometimes more, sometimes less.
    >
    > thanks again, Eric

    yea, it all sounds fine and dandy in theory... I still suck with pacing myself. Especially when we
    do increasing sets. I wear myself out too much on the first one or two... Practice practice
    practice. Good thing I like to be in water !!!
     
  7. Dakitty

    Dakitty Guest

    "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "DaKitty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > "Eric Friedman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > I'm 33, 192 lbs, and started swimming seriously again in November after a 15 year hiatus. I
    > > > still have pretty decent speed, but my basic endurance is terrible and I'd like some
    > > > suggestions for drills to improve it.
    > > >
    > > > To quantify: I can do a 50 yd free @100% effort in 28 seconds.
    > > >
    > > > I can do 20x50 free on 1 minute, pacing myself to swim the distance in 40 seconds.
    > > >
    > > > I swam a 500 free for time the other day, trying to hold that same 40 seconds/50 yards pace,
    > > > but my 50 yard splits were more like 46 seconds. My heartrate was much too high at the end of
    > > > this swim.
    > > >
    > > > My coach says that to improve basic endurance I need to swim at or below 80% effort. So, since
    > > > the maximum heart rate for my age is (220 - 33) 187, 80% of that is ~ 150.
    > > >
    > > > I have a very hard time keeping under that heart rate. Even with 20 seconds rest on the
    > > > 20x50s, I'm still climbing up to 160 or so. After the 500 it's more like 180, 190.
    > >
    > >
    > > You may need to learn to pace yourself a bit better then. Slow down a
    tad
    > > till your heart rate is in the target range. Getting through the sets as fast as you can isn't
    > > always all there is to
    it.
    > >
    > > I can swim a single 50M and compleately wear myself out (for the next 5
    or
    > > 10 minutes), or I can swim 800 and not breathe heavy at all. Find the speed where your heart
    > > rate is lower, if that means 50 or 55s
    per
    > > 50, so be it, for now. Once you find that pace, and you don't wear
    yourself
    > > out as much on the sets, you'll be able to swim longer.... and with practice, your speed will
    > > pick up. Your body will get more efficient when you don't have to stop and take a rest, but when
    > > it is forcet to do a constant steady supply of blood and oxygen etc... to the muscles, while
    > > you're at a certain pace. Doing sprint sets, and driving your heart rate up every time, just to
    > > maintain speed will not work on your endurance. You need to mix it up.
    > >
    > > For me.. after the warmup, I'm good for several sprints, then I need to
    take
    > > a few minutes break, then I go into endurance sets.
    > >
    > > Also, do something like 4x400, start off slower, and make each 400 a tad faster then the
    > > previous one, 30 seconds rest in between. Do a first set at 50sec per 50, see what your heart
    > > rate does at the end
    of
    > > 400.... Then do the nect one at a bit faster pace...
    > >
    > > Our coach has us do these variable paced sets all the time. Sometimes increasing speed from set
    > > 1-4, other times decreasing, sometimes with
    other
    > > strategies.
    > >
    > >
    > > > I am, of course, constantly working on technique -- front quandrant swimming; decent roll;
    > > > streamline off the wall; relaxed stroke; lengthening my stroke (it usually takes me 12-15
    > > > strokes per 25). The problem is that as I get fatigued, my form goes to pieces, which reduces
    > > > my efficiency in the water, which makes me more fatigued....
    > >
    > > yeap... Start off slower, and you'll be able to hold the form longer,
    less
    > > fatigue. You know, not every training set is a race against the clock. Sometimes looong relaxed
    > > sets at what **seems to be 30%** effort give
    you
    > > time to 'feel' the technique.
    > >
    > > > What do folks-in-the-know do to improve basic endurance? Longer continuous swims at a glacial
    > > > pace? Shorter swims with more rest (the reason I've been doing 20x50)?
    > >
    > > I think foir endurance you need to work on longer sets. It almost sounds like you haven't found
    > > your confortable pace yet, the pace where you
    feel
    > > like you could swim forever, and at the end of a 300Y workout leaves you wanting to swim more.
    > > You know, the pace you would use to swim the 1500
    or
    > > an 800 race, or a 5000M postal swim.
    > >
    > > > I'm looking for workout ideas I can use to supplement my coached training. We only meet twice
    > > > a week, but I swim twice more and would like to use that time to improve my basic endurance.
    > >
    > > What is the total yardage of your workouts?
    > >
    > > > Thanks in advance, Eric
    >
    > To what extent does endurance swimming wreak your sprinting?--or does it? At masters meets I tend
    > to swim 50 meter events. My personal bests are from two years ago. Since then I have gone
    > downhill. I attributed it
    perhaps
    > to my taking up longer swimming (our swimming club's so-called "open water" sessions, which are
    > coached sessions that are partly intervals and partly "swim umpteen minutes"). Maglischo in
    > "Swimming Even Faster" on pp. 107-08 says the question is "far from resolved," but that he is
    convinced
    > that endurance training "can reduce anaerobic capacity." I wonder what he says in his latest book
    > (which I don't have)?

    um, I'm not sure who you're asking, me or Eric.

    In my case, I just started getting back into shape, not even 2 months ago, from doing nothing but
    sitting at my desk for several years. So I can't say that there is much of a correlation between
    endurance and sprinting affecting each other, in my specific case. It's all mainly related to me
    having very limited resources for either. Till I get into better shape.

    If I do endurance sets first, I have no energy left to even think sprints. I think that's just the
    function of being very out of shape. I do notice that towards the end of my endurance sets, I feel
    pretty good, and often pick up the pace on the last 25%. Like I get a second wind.

    Once someone is in close to as good of a shape as they can personally be, I wonder if it doesn't
    boil down to building up fast twitch muscle fibers, vs. the other ones (I forget the exact name).

    the way our workouts are parsed out in general, for this summer... each weekday has a slightly
    different emphasize: Mon: Balance and Kicking drills Tue: Pulse sets Wed: Stroke, IM, turn and
    specialty sets Thu: Distance/negative split threshold Fri: Pulse sets Sat: Race quality sets and
    sprints Sun: Ocean swims, 1-4 laps of 3/4 mile tour of buoys

    Workouts are between an hour and hour and a half long.

    today (ugh) we did several longer sets about 1500 M worth total, then the coach called for 5x50
    sprints.... I'm usually far enough behind the most people finishing the sets, I only had time for
    couple of sprints before warmdown and the time the next arriving groups kick us out of the pool.
     
  8. MJuric

    MJuric Guest

    On 18 Aug 2003 22:35:52 -0700, [email protected] (Chris) wrote:

    >"DaKitty" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >> "Eric Friedman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >> > I'm 33, 192 lbs, and started swimming seriously again in November after a 15 year hiatus. I
    >> > still have pretty decent speed, but my basic endurance is terrible and I'd like some
    >> > suggestions for drills to improve it.
    >> >
    >> > To quantify: I can do a 50 yd free @100% effort in 28 seconds.
    >> >
    >> > I can do 20x50 free on 1 minute, pacing myself to swim the distance in 40 seconds.
    >> >
    >> > I swam a 500 free for time the other day, trying to hold that same 40 seconds/50 yards pace,
    >> > but my 50 yard splits were more like 46 seconds. My heartrate was much too high at the end of
    >> > this swim.
    >> >
    >> > My coach says that to improve basic endurance I need to swim at or below 80% effort. So, since
    >> > the maximum heart rate for my age is (220 - 33) 187, 80% of that is ~ 150.
    >> >
    >> > I have a very hard time keeping under that heart rate. Even with 20 seconds rest on the 20x50s,
    >> > I'm still climbing up to 160 or so. After the 500 it's more like 180, 190.
    >>
    >>
    >> You may need to learn to pace yourself a bit better then. Slow down a tad till your heart rate is
    >> in the target range. Getting through the sets as fast as you can isn't always all there is to it.
    >>
    >> I can swim a single 50M and compleately wear myself out (for the next 5 or 10 minutes), or I can
    >> swim 800 and not breathe heavy at all. Find the speed where your heart rate is lower, if that
    >> means 50 or 55s per 50, so be it, for now. Once you find that pace, and you don't wear yourself
    >> out as much on the sets, you'll be able to swim longer.... and with practice, your speed will
    >> pick up. Your body will get more efficient when you don't have to stop and take a rest, but when
    >> it is forcet to do a constant steady supply of blood and oxygen etc... to the muscles, while
    >> you're at a certain pace. Doing sprint sets, and driving your heart rate up every time, just to
    >> maintain speed will not work on your endurance. You need to mix it up.
    >>
    >> For me.. after the warmup, I'm good for several sprints, then I need to take a few minutes break,
    >> then I go into endurance sets.
    >>
    >> Also, do something like 4x400, start off slower, and make each 400 a tad faster then the previous
    >> one, 30 seconds rest in between. Do a first set at 50sec per 50, see what your heart rate does at
    >> the end of
    >> 400.... Then do the nect one at a bit faster pace...
    >>
    >> Our coach has us do these variable paced sets all the time. Sometimes increasing speed from set
    >> 1-4, other times decreasing, sometimes with other strategies.
    >>
    >>
    >> > I am, of course, constantly working on technique -- front quandrant swimming; decent roll;
    >> > streamline off the wall; relaxed stroke; lengthening my stroke (it usually takes me 12-15
    >> > strokes per 25). The problem is that as I get fatigued, my form goes to pieces, which reduces
    >> > my efficiency in the water, which makes me more fatigued....
    >>
    >> yeap... Start off slower, and you'll be able to hold the form longer, less fatigue. You know, not
    >> every training set is a race against the clock. Sometimes looong relaxed sets at what **seems to
    >> be 30%** effort give you time to 'feel' the technique.
    >>
    >> > What do folks-in-the-know do to improve basic endurance? Longer continuous swims at a glacial
    >> > pace? Shorter swims with more rest (the reason I've been doing 20x50)?
    >>
    >> I think foir endurance you need to work on longer sets. It almost sounds like you haven't found
    >> your confortable pace yet, the pace where you feel like you could swim forever, and at the end of
    >> a 300Y workout leaves you wanting to swim more. You know, the pace you would use to swim the 1500
    >> or an 800 race, or a 5000M postal swim.
    >>
    >> > I'm looking for workout ideas I can use to supplement my coached training. We only meet twice a
    >> > week, but I swim twice more and would like to use that time to improve my basic endurance.
    >>
    >> What is the total yardage of your workouts?
    >>
    >> > Thanks in advance, Eric
    >
    >To what extent does endurance swimming wreak your sprinting?--or does it? At masters meets I tend
    >to swim 50 meter events. My personal bests are from two years ago. Since then I have gone downhill.
    >I attributed it perhaps to my taking up longer swimming (our swimming club's so-called "open water"
    >sessions, which are coached sessions that are partly intervals and partly "swim umpteen minutes").
    >Maglischo in "Swimming Even Faster" on pp. 107-08 says the question is "far from resolved," but
    >that he is convinced that endurance training "can reduce anaerobic capacity." I wonder what he says
    >in his latest book (which I don't have)?

    I'm wondering this also. In running it is a general rule that concentrating on the longer
    aerobic runs makes one slower in the shorter distance stuff after a certain point. This
    point is normally after a person has "Peaked" at the mileage and is no longer getting the
    improvements recieved by increased mileage. Another problem is purely time and recovery.
    Most people don't have time nor teh body to be able to handle puttting in 60-70 miles a week
    and include some quality speedwork and recovery. However swimming is much less "impactful"l
    and allows one to train on a much more regular basis easier than that of running with less
    incidence of injury. Other than the time factor I suspect that a person could do endurance
    training and speed training and be fairly competant at both in swimming unlike running. OTOH
    I doubt one person could be elite at a 50 M swim and a 3000 M swim though.

    ~Matt
     
  9. Sam Hain

    Sam Hain Guest

    snip
    > yea, it all sounds fine and dandy in theory... I still suck with pacing myself. Especially when we
    > do increasing sets. I wear myself out too much on the first one or two... Practice practice
    > practice. Good thing I like to be in water !!!
    >
    >
    its good if you can swim while seeing a clock at some point during your sets. What I mean is, where
    I swim, coming off the turn in each 50 I get a great view of our pace clock (a big digital one), it
    helps you guage your pace and timing if you can continously see how fast you are going at the effort
    you are exerting.
     
  10. Nelson

    Nelson Guest

    [email protected] (adrian) wrote in message at your desired pace almost continuously.
    >

    > As for your heartrate, formulae like (220 - age) are so inaccurate that they're really not worth
    > bothering with. Some people have higher heartrates than others, that's just the way it is. My max
    > heartrate rowing was ~185 (at age 30) whereas the max for one of my clubmates (who was 10 yrs
    > older than me) was ~215. Ideally you shouldn't be gasping for air, your shoulders shouldn't be
    > dropping off and you should be able to hold a consistant pace for the duration of your piece.
    >

    So it seems that most swimmers come with 2 velocities: all-out and stopped or dead; ;)

    I think the important question is: how would you swim 1000, 2000, 3000m if you really needed
    to, now? After you have an answer, go to the pool and swim 2000m no stop, as if in
    open-water, you simply can't stop! If you do that, eventually, you will find a way to pace
    into 2000m of crawl.

    Learn some super-slow high technique swimming, (50m in 1min or more, in your case). In the
    end it is not a question of endurance but of technique and patience.

    I have this theory that I would be able to swim 2000m even after a years of sedentary out of
    the pool activities. Any swimmer can tell if that is true? Any experience like that?

    Front quadrant TI style swimming helped me a lot too.

    Nelson
     
  11. Jill

    Jill Guest

    > I have this theory that I would be able to swim 2000m even after a years of sedentary out
    > of the pool activities. Any swimmer can tell if that is true? Any experience like that?
    >

    I spent a good chunk of my 20s turning into a pile of goo. First time back seriously in the water, I
    made it through something like 2000M, but it wasn't pretty. The technique was still there, but the
    triceps and lats weren't, and it was a real struggle to make it through on what had been a slow pace
    back when I was seriously in shape.

    But within a couple practices, the muscle did start coming back, and things got better.
     
  12. Dakitty

    Dakitty Guest

    "Sam Hain" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > snip
    > > yea, it all sounds fine and dandy in theory... I still suck with pacing myself. Especially when
    > > we do increasing sets. I wear myself out too much on the first one or two... Practice practice
    > > practice. Good thing I like to be in water !!!
    > >
    > >
    > its good if you can swim while seeing a clock at some point during your sets. What I mean is,
    > where I swim, coming off the turn in each 50 I get a great view of our pace clock (a big digital
    > one), it helps you guage your pace and timing if you can continously see how fast you are going at
    > the effort you are exerting.

    Yea, we have a pace clock, along lane 1 and along lane 8 and we have a HUGE scoreboard with 2 pace
    clocks running, with 30 seconds offset from one another, and I use a wristwatch...

    I think I'll find it all a lot more useful once I get in a better shape. It's barely been 6 or 7
    weeks that I started being active again.

    Right now, for the first few laps I feel good, then I realize I don't have the energy that I used
    to, to keep up the pace I started with. A have a tad of frame of reference, 2 years ago I did
    several months of swimming, on my own, no coaching, and I had worked up to 4000Y workouts in an hour
    and a half, about 4 times a week. Then I fell of the wagon and gained about 20-30 pounds over last 2
    years I can't do those workouts yet :( Pffffft !! I know, patience, it's only been 6-7 weeks.

    You know, like my first meet... I was like Bwaaaaaa *sniffle sniffle* (well, kind of) it takes me 48
    seconds to swim 50 meters, I'll never get faster... Then my best friend who has been swimming since
    she was 6 (that would be for 28 years now) comes and says, um, can I remind you, you just started
    swimming, 3 WEEKS AGO! ya goof! :)

    Well, my team got one point on the account of my last place, and they scored some decent relay
    points just because they could have an extra relay crew, so, that's good, I think.

    Patience? What Patience? I have to do it all and NOW! ;)
     
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