Boroondara's Integrated Transport Strategy

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by hippy, Feb 3, 2004.

  1. hippy

    hippy Guest

    This is a section of a document sent to my office:

    <rough-quote>
    Workshop 1
    Tuesday 10th Feb
    6.30pm-8.00pm
    Chandelier Room, Ground Floor
    Hawthorn Town Hall

    Workshop 2
    Wednesday 18th Feb
    6.30pm-8.00pm
    Chandelier Room, Ground Floor
    Hawthorn Town Hall

    Some questions the workshops will explore:
    - How can transport be improved in your neighborhood
    - What would encourage you to reduce the use of your car?
    - Do the bicycle facilities in your area suit your needs?
    - Are there any areas/destinations that you find hard to get to?
    - What improvement would make your neighborhood safer
    for walking and cycling?

    More info?
    Call Kerry McConnell, Transport Planner, 9278 4592
    </rough-quote>

    cfsmtb: You might want to post this elsewhere?

    hippy
     
    Tags:


  2. cfsmtb

    cfsmtb Guest

    woohoo, send me on an cross-posting frenzy!

    Shall do, plus the Boroondara Bicycle Users Group, they probably already
    know about it.:D



    --
     
  3. Paulus

    Paulus Guest

    Any idea if it covers travel to the other side of the city?
    The direct route that all the cars get to take is about 20km than the
    shorted cycle route. I am talking Point Cook to Mulgrave here. As I'm going
    to be residing way out at PC, any help getting to work via a shorter bike
    rout would be sweet.

    P

    "hippy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:8%[email protected]
    > This is a section of a document sent to my office:
    >
    > <rough-quote>
    > Workshop 1
    > Tuesday 10th Feb
    > 6.30pm-8.00pm
    > Chandelier Room, Ground Floor
    > Hawthorn Town Hall
    >
    > Workshop 2
    > Wednesday 18th Feb
    > 6.30pm-8.00pm
    > Chandelier Room, Ground Floor
    > Hawthorn Town Hall
    >
    > Some questions the workshops will explore:
    > - How can transport be improved in your neighborhood
    > - What would encourage you to reduce the use of your car?
    > - Do the bicycle facilities in your area suit your needs?
    > - Are there any areas/destinations that you find hard to get to?
    > - What improvement would make your neighborhood safer
    > for walking and cycling?
    >
    > More info?
    > Call Kerry McConnell, Transport Planner, 9278 4592
    > </rough-quote>
    >
    > cfsmtb: You might want to post this elsewhere?
    >
    > hippy
    >
    >
     
  4. hippy

    hippy Guest

    I've been thinking a little about this and I can't
    come up with much in the way of improvements..
    (thinking cap on)... other than the obvious removal
    of cars from the roads. One thing I can think of is
    the lack of bike lockers at Glenferrie Station - at
    least, I don't remember seeing them, and...
    Anything that slows cars down along Whitehorse
    Rd. while leaving bikes unhindered is good.
    Removal of those silly 109 kerbside tram stops is
    good.
    Proper painted bike lanes and removal of cars
    from these lanes is good. Education for drivers
    re: opening car doors into traffic. Education for
    pedestrians re: stepping out into traffic. Reduce the
    cost of PT and increase the cost of car travel to
    encourage drivers to use PT...?

    hippy
     
  5. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch Guest

    All good hipp

    what about making bike lanes into... Bike lanes!!

    Not something that is allergic to intersection

    Surely the majority of cycling related collisions with cars happen a
    intersections and yet this is where bike lanes are least likely t
    be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Designing bike lanes NOT on major roads They're OK if you are
    confident roady or regular but for newbies and the kids alternate route
    along quiet-er secondary streets would make more sens

    And when I say secondary streets, I mean the ones chosen with bikes i
    mind, not the ones obviously picked off a map and never test-ridden by
    town planner, thus defaulting inevitably to the hilliest route possible
    (refer Balwyn Rd

    Anyone else going


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  6. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch Guest

    All good hipp

    what about making bike lanes into... Bike lanes!!

    Not something that is allergic to intersection

    Surely the majority of cycling related collisions with cars happen a
    intersections and yet this is where bike lanes are least likely t
    be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Designing bike lanes NOT on major roads They're OK if you are
    confident roady or regular but for newbies and the kids alternate route
    along quiet-er secondary streets would make more sens

    And when I say secondary streets, I mean the ones chosen with bikes i
    mind, not the ones obviously picked off a map and never test-ridden by
    town planner, thus defaulting inevitably to the hilliest route possible
    (refer Balwyn Rd

    Anyone else going


    -
     
  7. hippy

    hippy Guest

    Just a reminder about this transport meeting tonight:
    > Workshop 1
    > Tuesday 10th Feb
    > 6.30pm-8.00pm
    > Chandelier Room, Ground Floor
    > Hawthorn Town Hall


    hippy
     
  8. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch Guest

    So did you go?

    I was there. Im not sure how well it went as it did seem to smell
    somewhat like a 'community consultation' process for them to tick off
    and then go ahead and do whatever they want anyway

    Most of their data and figures they had on those large maps up the front
    were so inadequate. Incomplete Ptransport details (probably only 50% of
    bus routes and bike lanes were grossly over-exagerrated)

    Would be good to stack next Wed's meeting with more cycling-friendly
    people (altho not like the militant nutter who was on my table making
    everyone's eyes roll ; hope that wasnt you :)

    there were 3 people there from BBUG and it surprised me how many mums
    and dad type people were pro-biking. Even the engineer on my table (back
    right) was saying good stuff

    So what did you think?



    --
     
  9. hippy

    hippy Guest

    "flyingdutch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > So did you go?


    Yep.

    > I was there. Im not sure how well it went as it did seem to smell
    > somewhat like a 'community consultation' process for them to tick off
    > and then go ahead and do whatever they want anyway


    Isn't that how all government works?

    > Most of their data and figures they had on those large maps up the

    front
    > were so inadequate. Incomplete Ptransport details (probably only 50%

    of
    > bus routes and bike lanes were grossly over-exagerrated)


    I don't really have much of an idea anyway, using only train,
    tram, legs and bike. You weren't looking at the 'proposed' bike
    lanes were you? Kew Junction looks like a hotspot for bike
    crashes.

    > Would be good to stack next Wed's meeting with more cycling-friendly
    > people (altho not like the militant nutter who was on my table making
    > everyone's eyes roll ; hope that wasnt you :)


    Did he mention "7000k's" and "C1"?

    > there were 3 people there from BBUG and it surprised me how many mums
    > and dad type people were pro-biking. Even the engineer on my table

    (back
    > right) was saying good stuff


    Hey, you were on my table.. that guy was funny..

    "We engineers.. "
    "As an engineer.."
    "I'm not sure if you're an engineer, but.."
    etc.. etc.. :)

    Which person were you? I'm guessing one of the younger guys?

    > So what did you think?


    I still can't believe they don't let kids ride to school. I've never
    been
    to anything like that before so it's hard for me to comment, really.
    I guess it's good that they invite people to comment and I like the
    maps and idea that anyone can suggest changes (whether they are
    taken on board is another thing). The council? guy taking notes seemed
    interested in most people's suggestions. I don't really fit in to most
    people's world so I will just be sitting back and seeing what 'actually'
    happens. I don't like the idea of focusing on buses though - they are
    just more crap traffic. Get more people walking and riding short trips
    is what I want to see. I'm going to be using main roads whether or
    not they have bike lanes, etc, so most of the ideas for back-street
    bike paths mean nothing to me, but if it gets 'normal' people out on
    bikes rather than driving to the shops, I'm all for it.

    I have a training ride next week so I don't think I'll make the session.

    hippy
     
  10. >>>>> "hippy" == hippy <[email protected]> writes:

    hippy> I still can't believe they don't let kids ride to
    hippy> school.

    Eh? Who's they? Pardon my ignorance, I've only been in this country 11
    months.

    It was a few years ago now but I cycled to school every day in the UK.
    Bike racks at school and everything. I know cycling to school's
    declined in the UK in recent years but it's still an accpeted means of
    getting to school.

    Is that not the case here? In a country with markedly better roads for
    cycling than the UK could ever hope to have (although admittedly the
    standard of driving appears to be much worse :-( )
    --
    Regards
    Euan
     
  11. [email protected] wrote:
    >
    > >>>>> "hippy" == hippy <[email protected]> writes:

    >
    > hippy> I still can't believe they don't let kids ride to
    > hippy> school.
    >
    > Eh? Who's they? Pardon my ignorance, I've only been in this country 11
    > months.


    Some schools decide that riding a bicycle to school is too dangerous and
    they are not allowed. The real danger is all the mums who drive their
    kids to school.
     
  12. hippy

    hippy Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Eh? Who's they? Pardon my ignorance, I've only been in this country

    11
    > months.


    Well, I think it was a school ruling, not a law or anything.

    > It was a few years ago now but I cycled to school every day in the UK.


    Me too. Well replace UK with OZ. :)

    > Is that not the case here? In a country with markedly better roads

    for
    > cycling than the UK could ever hope to have (although admittedly the
    > standard of driving appears to be much worse :-( )


    That's probably the reason. Parents are scared their little investments
    are going to get skittled riding to school. Schools don't want the
    possiblity of liability for children's safety outside school.

    It's all a big steamy pile of .... if you ask me.

    hippy
     
  13. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch Guest

    [QUOTE

    "Did he mention "7000k's" and "C1"?"

    Yep, that was him. This is the kind of sad (albeit well meaning) git who
    give cycling a bad name!

    "Hey, you were on my table.. that guy was funny..

    Which person were you? I'm guessing one of the younger guys?"

    If you call 36 young? I was to the right of the nutter, opposite
    the engineer guy. brown shirt ( ithink i was the only person who
    rode there...)

    "I still can't believe they don't let kids ride to school."

    Isnt that unbelieveable??? I had to ask him 3 times if he was serious!

    "The council? guy taking notes seemed interested in most people's
    suggestions. "

    (poor bugger. he was really under siege)

    "using main roads whether or not they have bike lanes, etc, so most of
    the ideas for back-street bike paths mean nothing to me, but if it
    gets 'normal' people out on bikes rather than driving to the shops,
    I'm all for it."

    Me too. do approx 15-20k a year (phooey to his 7!). I have 2 young girls
    and want to ge tthem riding or walking to work and commut to work in
    town daily. Hence my interest and it was me suggesting it

    "I have a training ride next week so I don't think I'll make the
    session."

    Where do you ride? I been trying for awhile now to find someone local of
    about my ability (nothing worse than riding with someone who flogs you!)
    who can do early Sunday mornings (i have worn rutts in Beach road and
    its getting full of cafe racers)





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  14. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch Guest

    that should have read "getting the girls riding to SCHOOL

    sadly child slavery laws wont allow me to put the kids working toward
    the "BetterbikeforJas" fund


    -
     
  15. hippy

    hippy Guest

    "flyingdutch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "Did he mention "7000k's" and "C1"?"
    >
    > Yep, that was him. This is the kind of sad (albeit well meaning) git

    who
    > give cycling a bad name!


    That's exactly what I was thinking.. watching people think
    to themselves "nutter" and quickly find another table..

    > Which person were you? I'm guessing one of the younger guys?"
    >
    > If you call 36 young? I was to the right of the nutter, opposite
    > the engineer guy. brown shirt ( ithink i was the only person who
    > rode there...)


    When I said young I meant not 60+. I knew it was either you or the
    back-haired dude to my right. I remember you - you seemed pretty
    normal. hehehe! ;-)
    I would've ridden, but it would take more time for me to lock
    my bike than the actual ride time (I arrived from, basically
    opposite the town hall). I was the semi-conscious, long-haired git
    with the green "Chopper Club of Australia" t-shirt on.

    > "I still can't believe they don't let kids ride to school."
    >
    > Isnt that unbelieveable??? I had to ask him 3 times if he was serious!


    I think my mouth was too far open to ask him again? :)

    > Me too. do approx 15-20k a year (phooey to his 7!). I have 2 young

    girls
    > and want to ge tthem riding or walking to work and commut to work in
    > town daily. Hence my interest and it was me suggesting it


    If I had kids I would be sending them to school on foot or on a bike
    regardless of the school rules. It's always horrible to think of
    accidents happening but I'd rather risk it than have people die of
    heart disease, etc. When I was a kid, there wasn't a week that went
    by when I didn't have a fresh scab to pick at... ;-)

    > "I have a training ride next week so I don't think I'll make the
    > session."
    >
    > Where do you ride? I been trying for awhile now to find someone local

    of
    > about my ability (nothing worse than riding with someone who flogs

    you!)
    > who can do early Sunday mornings (i have worn rutts in Beach road and
    > its getting full of cafe racers)


    I actually live out east and commute into Hawthorn most days (I'm not
    actually a resident any more.. shhh ;-)). I train and race out east as
    well.
    Sometimes I do a longer loop that takes in part of Beach Rd. I just love
    passing people and Beach Rd. gives me plenty of oppurtunity for that :)
    It'd be kinda boring without so many other riders on it. You do some big
    k's, you'd have to be reasonably quick?
    Depending on whether my week's focus is to take racing seriously or
    party harder, I 'sometimes' manage a ride 'early' Sunday morning,
    usually though I save it until later in the day - more cars = more
    chances
    to draft them ;-)

    hippy
     
  16. cfsmtb

    cfsmtb Guest

    Hiyas, is anyone going along to the second workshop tomorrow night

    Workshop 2 Wednesday 18th Fe
    http://www.boroondara.vic.gov.au/yoursay/yoursay.asp?PageID=56

    7.30pm-8.00pm Chandelier Room, Ground Floor Hawthorn Town Hall Pleas
    register to attend a workshop with Kerry McConnell on (03) 9278 459
    or send your comments to [email protected]

    Don't know if I'll make it, waiting on confirmation of a bicycle meetin
    thingie Wednesday night at Yarra City Council. Then again if I put in
    really good effort and pedal fast between the two...:


    -
     
  17. hippy

    hippy Guest

    "cfsmtb" <[email protected]&spam.com.vic> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Hiyas, is anyone going along to the second workshop tomorrow night?
    >
    > Workshop 2 Wednesday 18th Feb
    > http://www.boroondara.vic.gov.au/yoursay/yoursay.asp?PageID=563
    >
    > 7.30pm-8.00pm Chandelier Room, Ground Floor Hawthorn Town Hall Please
    > register to attend a workshop with Kerry McConnell on (03) 9278 4592
    > or send your comments to [email protected].


    I'll be doing the Croydon 1 in 20 ride tomorrow so I wont make it.
    If anyone goes (flyingdutch?), can you please post a summary?

    cheers!
    hippy
     
  18. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch Guest

    I'll be ther

    (shall be the one locking my mtb commuter in the foyer

    about 5-6 known others from the Boroondara BUG will be there to

    Apparently the form will take that last week was the highlighting o
    comments/complaints, etc and tomorrow night's meeting will be th
    nashing of teeth/heads, err sorry constructive workshopping to come u
    with workable solutions to what was brought up last wee

    not sure if its going to take the split-into-6-tables approach like las
    week. if so and you recognise others try and spread the cycling-friendl
    of us across the tables. If you spot a skinny 5'10"ish buy with glasse
    and an inane look in his eye, avoid at all costs (refer to ealrier pos
    by hippy and moi

    see you ther


    -
     
  19. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch Guest

    Mtg last nigh

    similar forma

    first 10 minutes. Death-by-Powerpoint

    following hour or so 4 groups going thru a 6 page doc with compile
    issues/questions brought up at last weeks' meetin

    Each table had to go thru and reach consensus (or show of hands as w
    did to get thru) all the Qus ranging from Strong/Medium/Low/Disagree t
    what the relevant query question wa

    Broken down into sections such as (from memory

    Trains Buses Trams Traffic Flow Walking/pedestrian

    Many of the words were poorly worded and a few didnt even ask
    question! Ah, my rates dollars hard a twork paying the consultants
    yet again

    We seemed to have a fairly strong consensus on most with a few qu'
    getting middling results. There was a guy on our table from... Tramboar
    or something similar who was fairly reasonable but middling or just non
    committal on too many points as his considerations (admittedly based o
    realities) were always about cost and logistics. No wonder the trams ar
    stuffed! Oh well, today we only have ONE train and ONE tram operator s
    its either going to get better or alot worse. hmmmmm... time will tell

    thankfully Mr C1-7000k's was avoided (but simmering away insanely on th
    same table

    Cornered the guy David something from ARUP (consultants) afterwards an
    queried whether their admittedly half-missing or out-of-date or jus
    incorrect data was going to be rectified. He explained to me that thi
    data is begot from Vicroads, etc and 'layed over' their maps. Whooppee
    More nerds with maps!!! I intimated to him my concern that decision
    were going to be made on incorrect data. We moved over the maps and h
    asked me to indicate what was wrong. I took great delight in showing hi
    that about 30% of supposed bike lanes on the map didnt in reality exist
    Another 5% had been painted over in black (including Kew junction; th
    single biggest accident spot in B'dara!)

    Very strong show of support for: Peakhour clearways - enforced by tow
    away, not fine

    Council getting their beauracratic ass into gear and having regualr BBU
    consultation, not the current 3 differing depts making stabs in the dar
    and then undoing each other's wor

    Kids riding to schoo

    better facilites around major activity centre

    better signage/markings on path

    plus lots of other non cycling issue

    Now for a 3-4 week amalgamtion of consultants' work, submitted t
    council and then back to public consultation agai

    Aaaah, I love the smell of beauracracy in the morning!!


    -
     
  20. cfsmtb

    cfsmtb Guest

    Thanks for the "unofficial" minutes

    I was off at a Yarra Bicycle Advisory Committee meeting an
    unfortunately couldn't make it. Can you keep us informed of any follo
    up to these initial public consultations? ta.:cool


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