Boroondara's Integrated Transport Strategy

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by Hippy, Feb 3, 2004.

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  1. Hippy

    Hippy Guest

    This is a section of a document sent to my office:

    <rough-quote> Workshop 1 Tuesday 10th Feb
    6.30pm-8.00pm Chandelier Room, Ground Floor Hawthorn Town Hall

    Workshop 2 Wednesday 18th Feb
    7.30pm-8.00pm Chandelier Room, Ground Floor Hawthorn Town Hall

    Some questions the workshops will explore:
    - How can transport be improved in your neighborhood
    - What would encourage you to reduce the use of your car?
    - Do the bicycle facilities in your area suit your needs?
    - Are there any areas/destinations that you find hard to get to?
    - What improvement would make your neighborhood safer for walking and cycling?

    More info? Call Kerry McConnell, Transport Planner, 9278 4592 </rough-quote>

    cfsmtb: You might want to post this elsewhere?

    hippy
     
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  2. cfsmtb

    cfsmtb New Member

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    woohoo, send me on an cross-posting frenzy!

    Shall do, plus the Boroondara Bicycle Users Group, they probably already know about it.:D
     
  3. Paulus

    Paulus Guest

    Any idea if it covers travel to the other side of the city? The direct route that all the cars get
    to take is about 20km than the shorted cycle route. I am talking Point Cook to Mulgrave here. As I'm
    going to be residing way out at PC, any help getting to work via a shorter bike rout would be sweet.

    P

    "hippy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:8%[email protected]
    server.bigpond.net.au...
    > This is a section of a document sent to my office:
    >
    > <rough-quote> Workshop 1 Tuesday 10th Feb
    > 6.30pm-8.00pm Chandelier Room, Ground Floor Hawthorn Town Hall
    >
    > Workshop 2 Wednesday 18th Feb
    > 6.30pm-8.00pm Chandelier Room, Ground Floor Hawthorn Town Hall
    >
    > Some questions the workshops will explore:
    > - How can transport be improved in your neighborhood
    > - What would encourage you to reduce the use of your car?
    > - Do the bicycle facilities in your area suit your needs?
    > - Are there any areas/destinations that you find hard to get to?
    > - What improvement would make your neighborhood safer for walking and cycling?
    >
    > More info? Call Kerry McConnell, Transport Planner, 9278 4592 </rough-quote>
    >
    > cfsmtb: You might want to post this elsewhere?
    >
    > hippy
     
  4. Hippy

    Hippy Guest

    I've been thinking a little about this and I can't come up with much in the way of improvements..
    (thinking cap on)... other than the obvious removal of cars from the roads. One thing I can think of
    is the lack of bike lockers at Glenferrie Station - at least, I don't remember seeing them, and...
    Anything that slows cars down along Whitehorse Rd. while leaving bikes unhindered is good. Removal
    of those silly 109 kerbside tram stops is good. Proper painted bike lanes and removal of cars from
    these lanes is good. Education for drivers re: opening car doors into traffic. Education for
    pedestrians re: stepping out into traffic. Reduce the cost of PT and increase the cost of car travel
    to encourage drivers to use PT...?

    hippy
     
  5. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch New Member

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    All good hippy

    what about making bike lanes into...
    Bike lanes!!!

    Not something that is allergic to intersections

    Surely the majority of cycling related collisions with cars happen at intersections and yet this is where bike lanes are least likely to be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Designing bike lanes NOT on major roads
    They're OK if you are a confident roady or regular but for newbies and the kids alternate routes along quiet-er secondary streets would make more sense

    And when I say secondary streets, I mean the ones chosen with bikes in mind, not the ones obviously picked off a map and never test-ridden by a town planner, thus defaulting inevitably to the hilliest route possible. (refer Balwyn Rd)

    Anyone else going?
     
  6. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch New Member

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    All good hippy

    what about making bike lanes into...
    Bike lanes!!!

    Not something that is allergic to intersections

    Surely the majority of cycling related collisions with cars happen at intersections and yet this is where bike lanes are least likely to be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Designing bike lanes NOT on major roads
    They're OK if you are a confident roady or regular but for newbies and the kids alternate routes along quiet-er secondary streets would make more sense

    And when I say secondary streets, I mean the ones chosen with bikes in mind, not the ones obviously picked off a map and never test-ridden by a town planner, thus defaulting inevitably to the hilliest route possible. (refer Balwyn Rd)

    Anyone else going?
     
  7. Hippy

    Hippy Guest

    Just a reminder about this transport meeting tonight:
    > Workshop 1 Tuesday 10th Feb
    > 6.30pm-8.00pm Chandelier Room, Ground Floor Hawthorn Town Hall

    hippy
     
  8. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch New Member

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    So did you go?

    I was there. Im not sure how well it went as it did seem to smell somewhat like a 'community consultation' process for them to tick off and then go ahead and do whatever they want anyway

    Most of their data and figures they had on those large maps up the front were so inadequate. Incomplete Ptransport details (probably only 50% of bus routes and bike lanes were grossly over-exagerrated)

    Would be good to stack next Wed's meeting with more cycling-friendly people (altho not like the militant nutter who was on my table making everyone's eyes roll ; hope that wasnt you :)

    there were 3 people there from BBUG and it surprised me how many mums and dad type people were pro-biking. Even the engineer on my table (back right) was saying good stuff

    So what did you think?
     
  9. Hippy

    Hippy Guest

    "flyingdutch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > So did you go?

    Yep.

    > I was there. Im not sure how well it went as it did seem to smell somewhat like a 'community
    > consultation' process for them to tick off and then go ahead and do whatever they want anyway

    Isn't that how all government works?

    > Most of their data and figures they had on those large maps up the
    front
    > were so inadequate. Incomplete Ptransport details (probably only 50%
    of
    > bus routes and bike lanes were grossly over-exagerrated)

    I don't really have much of an idea anyway, using only train, tram, legs and bike. You weren't
    looking at the 'proposed' bike lanes were you? Kew Junction looks like a hotspot for bike crashes.

    > Would be good to stack next Wed's meeting with more cycling-friendly people (altho not like the
    > militant nutter who was on my table making everyone's eyes roll ; hope that wasnt you :)

    Did he mention "7000k's" and "C1"?

    > there were 3 people there from BBUG and it surprised me how many mums and dad type people were pro-
    > biking. Even the engineer on my table
    (back
    > right) was saying good stuff

    Hey, you were on my table.. that guy was funny..

    "We engineers.. " "As an engineer.." "I'm not sure if you're an engineer, but.." etc.. etc.. :)

    Which person were you? I'm guessing one of the younger guys?

    > So what did you think?

    I still can't believe they don't let kids ride to school. I've never been to anything like that
    before so it's hard for me to comment, really. I guess it's good that they invite people to comment
    and I like the maps and idea that anyone can suggest changes (whether they are taken on board is
    another thing). The council? guy taking notes seemed interested in most people's suggestions. I
    don't really fit in to most people's world so I will just be sitting back and seeing what
    'actually' happens. I don't like the idea of focusing on buses though - they are just more crap
    traffic. Get more people walking and riding short trips is what I want to see. I'm going to be
    using main roads whether or not they have bike lanes, etc, so most of the ideas for back-street
    bike paths mean nothing to me, but if it gets 'normal' people out on bikes rather than driving to
    the shops, I'm all for it.

    I have a training ride next week so I don't think I'll make the session.

    hippy
     
  10. Euan B Uk

    Euan B Uk Guest

    >>>>> "hippy" == hippy <[email protected]> writes:

    hippy> I still can't believe they don't let kids ride to school.

    Eh? Who's they? Pardon my ignorance, I've only been in this country 11 months.

    It was a few years ago now but I cycled to school every day in the UK. Bike racks at school and
    everything. I know cycling to school's declined in the UK in recent years but it's still an accpeted
    means of getting to school.

    Is that not the case here? In a country with markedly better roads for cycling than the UK could
    ever hope to have (although admittedly the standard of driving appears to be much worse :-( )
    --
    Regards Euan
     
  11. [email protected] wrote:
    >
    > >>>>> "hippy" == hippy <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    > hippy> I still can't believe they don't let kids ride to school.
    >
    > Eh? Who's they? Pardon my ignorance, I've only been in this country 11 months.

    Some schools decide that riding a bicycle to school is too dangerous and they are not allowed. The
    real danger is all the mums who drive their kids to school.
     
  12. Hippy

    Hippy Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Eh? Who's they? Pardon my ignorance, I've only been in this country
    11
    > months.

    Well, I think it was a school ruling, not a law or anything.

    > It was a few years ago now but I cycled to school every day in the UK.

    Me too. Well replace UK with OZ. :)

    > Is that not the case here? In a country with markedly better roads
    for
    > cycling than the UK could ever hope to have (although admittedly the standard of driving appears
    > to be much worse :-( )

    That's probably the reason. Parents are scared their little investments are going to get
    skittled riding to school. Schools don't want the possiblity of liability for children's safety
    outside school.

    It's all a big steamy pile of .... if you ask me.

    hippy
     
  13. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch New Member

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    [QUOTE

    "Did he mention "7000k's" and "C1"?"

    Yep, that was him. This is the kind of sad (albeit well meaning) git who give cycling a bad name!

    "Hey, you were on my table.. that guy was funny..

    Which person were you? I'm guessing one of the younger guys?"

    If you call 36 young? I was to the right of the nutter, opposite the engineer guy. brown shirt ( ithink i was the only person who rode there...)

    "I still can't believe they don't let kids ride to school."

    Isnt that unbelieveable??? I had to ask him 3 times if he was serious!

    "The council? guy taking notes seemed interested in most people's suggestions. "

    (poor bugger. he was really under siege)

    "using main roads whether or not they have bike lanes, etc, so most of the ideas for back-street bike paths mean nothing to me, but if it gets 'normal' people out on bikes rather than driving to
    the shops, I'm all for it."

    Me too. do approx 15-20k a year (phooey to his 7!). I have 2 young girls and want to ge tthem riding or walking to work and commut to work in town daily. Hence my interest and it was me suggesting it

    "I have a training ride next week so I don't think I'll make the session."

    Where do you ride? I been trying for awhile now to find someone local of about my ability (nothing worse than riding with someone who flogs you!) who can do early Sunday mornings
    (i have worn rutts in Beach road and its getting full of cafe racers)


    [/B][/QUOTE]
     
  14. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch New Member

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    that should have read "getting the girls riding to SCHOOL"

    sadly child slavery laws wont allow me to put the kids working towards the "BetterbikeforJas" fund!
     
  15. Hippy

    Hippy Guest

    "flyingdutch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Did he mention "7000k's" and "C1"?"
    >
    > Yep, that was him. This is the kind of sad (albeit well meaning) git
    who
    > give cycling a bad name!

    That's exactly what I was thinking.. watching people think to themselves "nutter" and quickly find
    another table..

    > Which person were you? I'm guessing one of the younger guys?"
    >
    > If you call 36 young? I was to the right of the nutter, opposite the engineer guy. brown shirt (
    > ithink i was the only person who rode there...)

    When I said young I meant not 60+. I knew it was either you or the back-haired dude to my right. I
    remember you - you seemed pretty normal. hehehe! ;-) I would've ridden, but it would take more time
    for me to lock my bike than the actual ride time (I arrived from, basically opposite the town hall).
    I was the semi-conscious, long-haired git with the green "Chopper Club of Australia" t-shirt on.

    > "I still can't believe they don't let kids ride to school."
    >
    > Isnt that unbelieveable??? I had to ask him 3 times if he was serious!

    I think my mouth was too far open to ask him again? :)

    > Me too. do approx 15-20k a year (phooey to his 7!). I have 2 young
    girls
    > and want to ge tthem riding or walking to work and commut to work in town daily. Hence my interest
    > and it was me suggesting it

    If I had kids I would be sending them to school on foot or on a bike regardless of the school rules.
    It's always horrible to think of accidents happening but I'd rather risk it than have people die of
    heart disease, etc. When I was a kid, there wasn't a week that went by when I didn't have a fresh
    scab to pick at... ;-)

    > "I have a training ride next week so I don't think I'll make the session."
    >
    > Where do you ride? I been trying for awhile now to find someone local
    of
    > about my ability (nothing worse than riding with someone who flogs
    you!)
    > who can do early Sunday mornings (i have worn rutts in Beach road and its getting full of
    > cafe racers)

    I actually live out east and commute into Hawthorn most days (I'm not actually a resident any more..
    shhh ;-)). I train and race out east as well. Sometimes I do a longer loop that takes in part of
    Beach Rd. I just love passing people and Beach Rd. gives me plenty of oppurtunity for that :) It'd
    be kinda boring without so many other riders on it. You do some big k's, you'd have to be reasonably
    quick? Depending on whether my week's focus is to take racing seriously or party harder, I
    'sometimes' manage a ride 'early' Sunday morning, usually though I save it until later in the day -
    more cars = more chances to draft them ;-)

    hippy
     
  16. cfsmtb

    cfsmtb New Member

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    Hiyas,
    is anyone going along to the second workshop tomorrow night?

    Workshop 2 Wednesday 18th Feb
    http://www.boroondara.vic.gov.au/yoursay/yoursay.asp?PageID=563

    7.30pm-8.00pm Chandelier Room, Ground Floor Hawthorn Town Hall
    Please register to attend a workshop with Kerry McConnell on (03) 9278 4592 or
    send your comments to [email protected].


    Don't know if I'll make it, waiting on confirmation of a bicycle meeting thingie Wednesday night at Yarra City Council. Then again if I put in a really good effort and pedal fast between the two...:p
     
  17. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch New Member

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    I'll be there

    (shall be the one locking my mtb commuter in the foyer)

    about 5-6 known others from the Boroondara BUG will be there too

    Apparently the form will take that last week was the highlighting of comments/complaints, etc and tomorrow night's meeting will be the nashing of teeth/heads, err sorry constructive workshopping to come up with workable solutions to what was brought up last week

    not sure if its going to take the split-into-6-tables approach like last week. if so and you recognise others try and spread the cycling-friendly of us across the tables.
    If you spot a skinny 5'10"ish buy with glasses and an inane look in his eye, avoid at all costs (refer to ealrier post by hippy and moi)

    see you there
     
  18. Hippy

    Hippy Guest

    "cfsmtb" <[email protected]&spam.com.vic> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hiyas, is anyone going along to the second workshop tomorrow night?
    >
    > Workshop 2 Wednesday 18th Feb http://www.boroondara.vic.gov.au/yoursay/yoursay.asp?PageID=563
    >
    > 7.30pm-8.00pm Chandelier Room, Ground Floor Hawthorn Town Hall Please register to attend a
    > workshop with Kerry McConnell on (03) 9278 4592 or send your comments to
    > [email protected]

    I'll be doing the Croydon 1 in 20 ride tomorrow so I wont make it. If anyone goes (flyingdutch?),
    can you please post a summary?

    cheers! hippy
     
  19. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch New Member

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    Mtg last night

    similar format

    first 10 minutes. Death-by-Powerpoint!

    following hour or so 4 groups going thru a 6 page doc with compiled issues/questions brought up at last weeks' meeting

    Each table had to go thru and reach consensus (or show of hands as we did to get thru) all the Qus ranging from
    Strong/Medium/Low/Disagree to what the relevant query question was

    Broken down into sections such as (from memory)

    Trains
    Buses
    Trams
    Traffic Flow
    Walking/pedestrians

    Many of the words were poorly worded and a few didnt even ask a question! Ah, my rates dollars hard a twork paying the consultants, yet again!

    We seemed to have a fairly strong consensus on most with a few qu's getting middling results. There was a guy on our table from... Tramboard or something similar who was fairly reasonable but middling or just non-committal on too many points as his considerations (admittedly based on realities) were always about cost and logistics. No wonder the trams are stuffed!
    Oh well, today we only have ONE train and ONE tram operator so its either going to get better or alot worse. hmmmmm... time will tell!

    thankfully Mr C1-7000k's was avoided (but simmering away insanely on the same table)

    Cornered the guy David something from ARUP (consultants) afterwards and queried whether their admittedly half-missing or out-of-date or just incorrect data was going to be rectified.
    He explained to me that this data is begot from Vicroads, etc and 'layed over' their maps. Whooppee!
    More nerds with maps!!!
    I intimated to him my concern that decisions were going to be made on incorrect data. We moved over the maps and he asked me to indicate what was wrong. I took great delight in showing him that about 30% of supposed bike lanes on the map didnt in reality exist. Another 5% had been painted over in black
    (including Kew junction; the single biggest accident spot in B'dara!).

    Very strong show of support for:
    Peakhour clearways - enforced by tow-away, not fines

    Council getting their beauracratic ass into gear and having regualr BBUG consultation, not the current 3 differing depts making stabs in the dark and then undoing each other's work

    Kids riding to school

    better facilites around major activity centres

    better signage/markings on paths

    plus lots of other non cycling issues

    Now for a 3-4 week amalgamtion of consultants' work, submitted to council and then back to public consultation again

    Aaaah, I love the smell of beauracracy in the morning!!!
     
  20. cfsmtb

    cfsmtb New Member

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    Thanks for the "unofficial" minutes!

    I was off at a Yarra Bicycle Advisory Committee meeting and unfortunately couldn't make it. Can you keep us informed of any follow up to these initial public consultations? ta.:cool:
     
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