Boy, are you gonna hate this.



I guess I should add that it's VERY ILLEGAL to drink and carry. But since most restaurants have
liquour licenses it's accepted practice to open carry in a restaurant. Most people who carry
concealed use "inside the waistband" holsters, so all you need to do to convert to open carry is
simply do something like tuck in your shirt or remove your jacket. Only the butt of the gun is
usually exposed with an IWB holster, and most people don't even notice it. Really, people aren't
very observant.

--
--Scott
"Freewheeling" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ed:
>
> Concealed carry in Virginia requires a permit, but since the state is
"shall
> issue" the permit just costs about $50 for the application and as long as
> you aren't nuts or a felon it has to be issued. Lots of states are
becoming
> "shall issue." Check http://www.packing.org for details.
>
> Also, even if you have a concealed carry permit you can't carry a
concealed
> weapon into a place that serves alcohol. However you *can* open carry, so
> one procedure is to simply tuck in your shirt or remove your jacket or
vest.
> There are a few (very few) places where you can't carry at all. The
Dulles
> corridor and airport is one.
>
> You'd also better be very careful about knowing exactly where you are, and
> that you don't inadvertently cross into DC or Maryland where the gun laws
> are very restrictive.
>
>
> --
> --Scott
> "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Freewheeling" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> > > "My thing against handguns is that I can't honestly say who I would
> > > trust to hold one."
> > >
> > > And I can't honestly say who I would trust to have the vote. But it
> doesn't
> > > matter who I would or wouldn't trust, because I'm not the arbiter. I
> live
> > > in Virginia, where once you've passed the 5-minute background check
> required
> > > to purchase a firearm you can "open carry." You don't even need a
> permit.
> > > As long as people can see you have a weapon, it's legal. (And most
> people
> > > don't even notice that you're carrying. They're just not that
> observant.)
> > > It is also a "shall issue" state, where once you've passed a more
> extensive
> > > background check that can take up to 45 days the state has no
discretion
> > > whatsoever about whether to issue you a permit to carry a concealed
> firearm.
> > > Virginia has one of the lowest crime rates in the country.
> > >
> > > This is right next to the District of Columbia, which has the most
> > > restrictive gun laws in the country. If you are caught with so much
as
> a
> > > spent .22lr cartridge in your car you can be sentenced to six months
in
> > > prison. DC has one of the highest property crime and murder rates in
> the
> > > country, if not THE highest. Crime isn't caused by the presence of
> guns,
> > > but by other factors entirely. However it is suppressed by a society
> that
> > > is legitimately armed, possibly giving enough respite that the causes
of
> > > crime can be addressed effectively and a decent social structure
> established
> > > that can resist crime in the long run.
> > >
> > > So far the Supreme Court has chosen not to take on the issue of
whether
> the
> > > "may issue" statutes and other restrictive and arbitrary laws against
> > > firearms in the various states violate the 2nd Amendment. The
> conventional
> > > wisdom is that they do not, but I wouldn't be so sanguine about the
> position
> > > the USC might take on this, once they choose to address it. The
> concealed
> > > carry movement was completely unforeseen by the NRA, but has now made
> > > significant inroads in approximately half of the states in the US. It
> may
> > > actually be more, but those are the ones in a discontinuous and
somewhat
> > > disorganized reciprocity network. Sooner or later this issue will go
to
> the
> > > USC.
> > >
> > > In my opinion the wording of the 2nd Amendment, when illuminated by
the
> > > writings of the founders themselves, is unambiguous.
> >
> > Scott, you have persuaded me 100% of the correctness of your position.
> > I say this so that others on this newsgroup will know that I am not
> > unreasonable and that I can be persuaded by cogent argument.
> >
> > I notice that Imus (of Imus in the Morning on MSNBC) carries a pistol
> > on his person and that you can plainly see it. At first I was a bit
> > shocked by this, but I have not gotten used to it and I am thinking
> > yes, everyone is safer because Imus is carrying a weapon. He is a
> > screwball of course, but he is more or less sane and I trust him as I
> > do most people. Without that minimum of trust living in society would
> > not be possible.
> >
> > I did not know about that Virginia stipulation that you had to "open
> > carry". Is this an option or a requirement I wonder? That is not a bad
> > idea, although conceal and carry seems to make more sense to me. It is
> > the idea of not knowing who is carrying and who is not carrying that
> > will be the greatest deterrent to crime.
> >
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:16:58 -0500, "Freewheeling"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Zip:
>
>Hyperbole? Check out http://www.packing.org and read the entry for DC.

Sheesh!

I wasn't casting asparagus on your veracity, but you gotta admit that sounds far-fetched. I shoulda
known you couldn't make up anything that silly...

Sorry.
 
david.poole <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>... [...]

> Just to keep this thread going into infinity and beyond, how are your presidential candidates
> shaping up. Whose **** is Tony Blair going to have to crawl up:D

I learned from my early youth never to get involved in another country's politics. It is OK to read
about their history, but not their politics. It is all one can do to just stay current with one's
own country's politics. But I do notice who supports our foreign policy and who doesn't, and I have
a long memory. Many of you Brits aren't any better than the rest of the Europeans when it comes to
supporting the US, but still you have mostly managed to come up with leaders who can see the light
and know which side to get on when the chips are down. I attribute that to what remains of your
aristocracy (upper classes).

But I am flattered that the rest of the world takes such a great interest in US politics. I guess
that is because we are the sole remaining super power in the world and that what we do impacts
everyone else. My only regret is that we don't throw our weight around more than we do.

By the way, I think Americans like Hemingway who involved themselves in the Spanish Civil War were
crazy as loons. None of them came to a good end and they deserved everything they got. I think there
were also quite a few Brits who were stupid enough to run off to fight in that War too.

I will confine my interest in politics to the US if you will be so kind as to confine your interest
in politics to the UK. How hard can that be?

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
Originally posted by Edward Dolan
david.poole <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>... [...]

> Just to keep this thread going into infinity and beyond, how are your presidential candidates
> shaping up. Whose **** is Tony Blair going to have to crawl up:D
...(snip)

My only regret is that we don't throw our weight around more than we do.

(snip)...

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

I know I should stay out of this but I'm having a weak moment and so will make one comment.

The more weight you have to throw the more careful you should be where and how you throw it. Eventually that weight will drag you down and as we all know; the bigger you are...

As I recall from history classes, ****** threw his weight around.
 
My opinion is pretty simple. I've been targeted by guys hanging out of car windows with baseball bats wanting to play, and a few irate drivers in the last several years, saying nothing of the hundreds of farm dogs. So far a gun hasn't been necessary.

That being said.... I shot completively, so I know how to use a gun, and not only hit my taget, but group my shots. I firmly believe in gun control, two hands on the gun, with the knowledge of how to use it, and willingness to face any cosequences for using it.

If you are not willing to kill, then you shouldn't carry a gun. He who hesitates, dies.
 
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:05:57 GMT, Beastt
<[email protected]> wrote:

> The more weight you have to throw the more careful you should be where and how you throw it.
> Eventually that weight will drag you down and as we all know; the bigger you are...
>
> As I recall from history classes, ****** threw his weight around.

Yeah. Just like Saddamn did, and with a very similar result.

Your moral compass needs very badly to be degaussed, and you need to stay awake in history classes.
 
Beastt <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Edward Dolan wrote:

> > david.poole <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>... [...]

> > > Just to keep this thread going into infinity and beyond, how are your presidential
> > > candidates shaping up. Whose **** is Tony Blair going to have to crawl up:D

> > ...(snip) My only regret is that we don't throw our weight around more than we do. (snip)...
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
> I know I should stay out of this but I'm having a weak moment and so will make one comment.

Nonsense, the more the merrier! You can never have too much input when important matters
are at stake.

> The more weight you have to throw the more careful you should be where and how you throw it.
> Eventually that weight will drag you down and as we all know; the bigger you are...
>
> As I recall from history classes, ****** threw his weight around.

****** overshot something terrible. If he had stopped with the Austrian annexation and the takeover
of the Sudetenland he would have gone down in history right along with Bismark and Frederick the
Great as one of the greatest German leaders and statesmen of all time. There would be a statue of
him in every platz in Germany.

But the main difference between then and now is that the American people are a great and good
people, unlike the Germans prior to WWII. And so if we make our influence felt in the world it is
for the good of all peaceful and civilized nations. We Americans if truth be told are the only
crusader nation left on the face of the earth. We are constantly doing things for the good of the
world at great cost to ourselves and getting next to nothing in return. We do it because we believe
in freedom and democracy and because that is the kind of world that we want for all mankind. We
ought to rename ourselves Saint America!

The European bailout on the Iraqi War was despicable, but France is in a category by itself.
Sometimes I think there is something seriously wrong with the French. I have toured France
extensively and I love the place for that, but I have never been able to get along with the French
people. Very many other Americans seem to have this same problem. Are the French liked and highly
thought of by other Europeans I wonder? Inquiring minds want to know!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
jostclan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<%[email protected]>...

> My opinion is pretty simple. I've been targeted by guys hanging out of car windows with baseball
> bats wanting to play, and a few irate drivers in the last several years, saying nothing of the
> hundreds of farm dogs. So far a gun hasn't been necessary.
>
> That being said.... I shot completively, so I know how to use a gun, and not only hit my taget,
> but group my shots. I firmly believe in gun control, two hands on the gun, with the knowledge of
> how to use it, and willingness to face any cosequences for using it.
>
> If you are not willing to kill, then you shouldn't carry a gun. He who hesitates, dies.

But does this mean you would rather die than kill? That doesn't seem right. I can foresee situations
where the mere showing of a gun would most likely quell an escalation. But I do agree, you have to
be willing to use it in your own mind if worse comes to worse. Most hoodlums are not armed and are
not intent on murdering you, but who the hell wants to get beat to a pulp for want of a gun?

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
Originally posted by Edward Dolan
Beastt <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Edward Dolan wrote:


But the main difference between then and now is that the American people are a great and good people, unlike the Germans prior to WWII.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota


*sigh* Alas, mirrors are never as accurate as windows.

The Germans thought of themselves as great and good people, just trying to strengthen their race. Good or bad lies within actions not self-appraisal. Invading and over-throwing despite the recommendations of an organization which to consider yourself a member of is classified as a war crime. It's not good.
 
Beastt <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

Edward Dolan wrote:
> > But the main difference between then and now is that the American people are a great and good
> > people, unlike the Germans prior to WWII. Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
> *sigh* Alas, mirrors are never as accurate as windows.
>
> The Germans thought of themselves as great and good people, just trying to strengthen their race.
> Good or bad lies within actions not self- appraisal. Invading and over-throwing despite the
> recommendations of an organization which to consider yourself a member of is classified as a war
> crime. It's not good.

The Germans have never been good neighbors in Europe since even before the days of WWI. Germany came
late to a united nationhood (as did Italy also) compared to Britain and France and made a nuisance
of itself in the attempt to catch up. The fact that ****** could come to power by free elections in
Germany tells me that there was something seriously lacking in the German character. And then their
conduct in WWII confirms it. To attribute all this very bad behavior to ****** and Nazism is a great
mistake. Nazism was something that was just added on to the rotten German nation. No one man
(******) and no one political party (Nazism) can explain Germany. To somehow equate Germany with the
US is total insanity.

The US was totally justified in its war against Afghanistan and Iraq. I can think of several other
rogue nations too that deserve our attention with respect to possible regime change if they don't
change their evil ways.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:34:10 GMT, Beastt
<[email protected]> wrote:

> > But the main difference between then and now is that the American people
> > are a great and good people, unlike the Germans prior to WWII. Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
>
>
>
>*sigh* Alas, mirrors are never as accurate as windows.
>
>The Germans thought of themselves as great and good people, just trying to strengthen their race.
>Good or bad lies within actions not self- appraisal. Invading and over-throwing despite the
>recommendations of an organization which to consider yourself a member of is classified as a war
>crime. It's not good.

I have the same concern with people trying to be 'great and good' as with officers trying to be
heros (speaking as a former SSG). It sometimes is necessary, but it is too often a terribly
inefficient way to get what needs to be done, done.

Prefer people, both macro and micro, that see themselves as part of everyone else, and willing to do
their part to accomplish what needs to be accomplished. Fewer SNAFUs that way.

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels...
 
O heck, I thought we were talking about firearms there again, for a moment.

--
--Scott
"Beastt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > david.poole <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>... [...]
> > > Just to keep this thread going into infinity and beyond, how are
your
> > > presidential candidates shaping up. Whose **** is Tony Blair going
to
> > > have to crawl up:D
> > ...(snip)
> > My only regret is that we don't throw our weight around more than we
do.
> > (snip)...
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
>
>
> I know I should stay out of this but I'm having a weak moment and so
> will make one comment.
>
> The more weight you have to throw the more careful you should be where
> and how you throw it. Eventually that weight will drag you down and as
> we all know; the bigger you are...
>
> As I recall from history classes, ****** threw his weight around.
>
>
>
> --
 
Beastt:

Still having a problem understanding what you're saying. The international organization that was
supposed to have acted in the 1930s to stop ******, before the price of stopping him became
astronomical, was the League of Nations. It abdicated that responsibility, and unfortunately no one
else took up the slack. The danger in this case was not merely Iraq, which with it's overt support
of terrorism (let alone the threat that it might have WMD arsenals, and DID have WMD *programs*),
was bad enough. The real danger was, and is, that like Nazi Germany the Middle Eastern
"neighborhood" has a political discourse that's controlled by cannibals, and the cannibals might
get control.

Now take your eyes off of Iraq for a moment and put them on Iran. The "hardliners" have just
disallowed something like 400 reformist candidates from standing for election, and as a result less
than 9 out of 10 people, most of whom are pro-American, aren't planning to vote. My guess is that
the Mullahs are so bold because they're pretty sure the world, and his political opponents, have all-
but stymied George Bush. Just peachy.

--
--Scott
"Beastt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
> > Beastt <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> > > Edward Dolan wrote:
> > But the main difference between then and now is that the American
people
> > are a great and good people, unlike the Germans prior to WWII.
> > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
>
>
>
> *sigh* Alas, mirrors are never as accurate as windows.
>
> The Germans thought of themselves as great and good people, just trying
> to strengthen their race. Good or bad lies within actions not self-
> appraisal. Invading and over-throwing despite the recommendations of an
> organization which to consider yourself a member of is classified as a
> war crime. It's not good.
>
>
>
> --
 
On 19 Feb 2004 23:56:25 -0800, [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote:

>To somehow equate Germany with the US is total insanity.

And yet it is at the core of anti-Americanism.

The screed of the left usually reduces to moral equilavency, moral relativism, radical
egalitarianism, and when all else fails, "Tu quoque".
 
Realized I needed to clarify something:

"The real danger was, and is, that like Nazi Germany the Middle Eastern "neighborhood" has a
political discourse that's controlled by cannibals, and the cannibals might get control."

The radical Salafists/Islamists control the political discourse almost completely, but they don't
yet control any regimes. (See Clovis Maksoud at George Washington University for more on this.)

--
--Scott
"Freewheeling" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Beastt:
>
> Still having a problem understanding what you're saying. The
international
> organization that was supposed to have acted in the 1930s to stop ******,
> before the price of stopping him became astronomical, was the League of
> Nations. It abdicated that responsibility, and unfortunately no one else
> took up the slack. The danger in this case was not merely Iraq, which
with
> it's overt support of terrorism (let alone the threat that it might have
WMD
> arsenals, and DID have WMD *programs*), was bad enough. The real danger
> was, and is, that like Nazi Germany the Middle Eastern "neighborhood" has
a
> political discourse that's controlled by cannibals, and the cannibals
might
> get control.
>
> Now take your eyes off of Iraq for a moment and put them on Iran. The
> "hardliners" have just disallowed something like 400 reformist candidates
> from standing for election, and as a result less than 9 out of 10 people,
> most of whom are pro-American, aren't planning to vote. My guess is that
> the Mullahs are so bold because they're pretty sure the world, and his
> political opponents, have all-but stymied George Bush. Just peachy.
>
> --
> --Scott
> "Beastt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Edward Dolan wrote:
> > > Beastt <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:<[email protected]>...
> > > > Edward Dolan wrote:
> > > But the main difference between then and now is that the American
> people
> > > are a great and good people, unlike the Germans prior to WWII.
> > > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *sigh* Alas, mirrors are never as accurate as windows.
> >
> > The Germans thought of themselves as great and good people, just trying
> > to strengthen their race. Good or bad lies within actions not self-
> > appraisal. Invading and over-throwing despite the recommendations of an
> > organization which to consider yourself a member of is classified as a
> > war crime. It's not good.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
>
 
jostclan:

"That being said.... I shot completively"

That's completely competitively? (Just kidding, I know the problems of not being able to edit a
post once it has been sent.) But my take on Self Defense shooting is that it differs from
competitive target shooting in the sense that you don't *want* to group your shots. In the SD class
I took as soon as my accuracy got to the point that the shots were grouped to the center of the
page they'd tell me to speed up. Ultimately they wanted me to spread the rounds out within about a
12 inch radius at about 7-8 yards, delivered in short bursts of 3 or 4 rounds. Of course, the more
accurate you are the faster you'll be able to get those defensive rounds off. But what you don't
want is a small ragged hole 1 to 2 inches across. And, of course, the objective isn't to kill but
to stop the threat.

--
--Scott
"jostclan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%[email protected]...
> My opinion is pretty simple. I've been targeted by guys hanging out of
> car windows with baseball bats wanting to play, and a few irate drivers
> in the last several years, saying nothing of the hundreds of farm dogs.
> So far a gun hasn't been necessary.
>
> That being said.... I shot completively, so I know how to use a gun, and
> not only hit my taget, but group my shots. I firmly believe in gun
> control, two hands on the gun, with the knowledge of how to use it, and
> willingness to face any cosequences for using it.
>
> If you are not willing to kill, then you shouldn't carry a gun. He who
> hesitates, dies.
>
>
>
> --
 
Originally posted by Edward Dolan
Beastt <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

Edward Dolan wrote:
> > But the main difference between then and now is that the American people are a great and good
> > people, unlike the Germans prior to WWII. Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
> *sigh* Alas, mirrors are never as accurate as windows.
>
> The Germans thought of themselves as great and good people, just trying to strengthen their race.
> Good or bad lies within actions not self- appraisal. Invading and over-throwing despite the
> recommendations of an organization which to consider yourself a member of is classified as a war
> crime. It's not good.

The Germans have never been good neighbors in Europe since even before the days of WWI. Germany came
late to a united nationhood (as did Italy also) compared to Britain and France and made a nuisance
of itself in the attempt to catch up. The fact that ****** could come to power by free elections in
Germany tells me that there was something seriously lacking in the German character. And then their
conduct in WWII confirms it. To attribute all this very bad behavior to ****** and Nazism is a great
mistake. Nazism was something that was just added on to the rotten German nation. No one man
(******) and no one political party (Nazism) can explain Germany. To somehow equate Germany with the
US is total insanity.

The US was totally justified in its war against Afghanistan and Iraq. I can think of several other
rogue nations too that deserve our attention with respect to possible regime change if they don't
change their evil ways.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Who appointed the U.S. as world police? We, (the U.S.) did. That's the act of a society which believes more in dictatorial systems than in democratic ones. The U.N. is supposed to serve this function but since we, (the U.S.), didn't care for their judgement we just went ahead and did what some of us, those in power, wanted to do. On a smaller scale... any smaller scale, that's referred to as taking the law into your own hands and is strictly forbidden.

Wrong is wrong even if you believe yourself to be so good that your actions are incapable of being inappropriate. We wouldn't want or allow another country to invade us and over-throw our government. What makes us more deserving of the right to remain uninvaded and not ruled by an outside nation when we won't recognize that right for other nations?
 
Holy Schemoly guys, Oh how far you have all drifted from your bikes. The topic was about packing heat when riding and yet a topic once again gets turned into a place for some to place their **** for all to see. Lets get back on the bike here.
Topic: riding a bike/packing heat
Good thing, bad thing?
What kind a gun to carry?
Do shot guns and low racers compliment one another?
Are swords a good alternative, or do they just add more weight?
We have a right to bear arms, but should we bare our legs if we have knobby knees?
What kind of bike would James Bond ride?
If you are on a training ride and timing yourself, what is the quickest way to dispose of some perps trying to cop your ride, while making good time on the road: your vote, Uzzi or Shot Gun?Discuss.
Hey, if you think about it, a light weight flame throwing device would have to be the ultimate defense weapon. Well, unless you live in a windy place. Check that. Bullets are better.
There is a tandem recumbent bike that has one rider facing forward, the rear rider facing the rear. With both riders armed and on the look out, it would be the equivalent of the Super Fortress of WW 2 in bike form. "Gunner to Pilot, Gunner to Pilot, quit running over the horse **** piles, I have no fender!, Over.

I say all this in jest. Lets get back to having fun and sharing ideas and thoughts about BIKES/TRIKES. Yes, the world is a crazy mixed up place, but isn't it nice to have hobbies, like BIKING, and places to share your hobby about BIKING on this board and others, where the subject is BIKING, so you can get away from the crazy stuff and talk about BIKING, without having to worry about silly off topic stuff and concentrate on a forum that is used for people to talk about BIKING, even when someone gets off track you can try and steer the topic back to BIKING, because it is BIKING in all its many facets that brings us here, people who like BIKES/TRIKES, it is a BIKING community, a BIKING forum, a place for all things BIKE, for a BIKE can at times be devisive, but at its core can bring complete strangers into harmony due to some connection they have with their BIKES, be it wheels, frames, fairings or what you eat before a ride, in BIKES we share, in BIKES we compare, in BIKES we may even argue, but BIKES are why we are here. Lets get back on the BIKE guys. Peace
 
Wolverine:

What's the difference? I mean, you know this thread is drifting all over the known universe,
yet you read it? What's preventing you from getting back to..., etc.? "Help, I've fallen and I
can't get up."

Just to help keep things on track, though, here's a great thread on HighRoads about the "king of
mouseguns" (small, pocket-carry handguns). So far the winner is the Kel-Tec 3AT: a .380 caliber
weapon that weighs in at about half a pound unloaded and sells for less than $300.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=810912#post810912

--
--Scott
"Wolverine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Holy Schemoly guys, Oh how far you have all drifted from your bikes. The
> topic was about packing heat when riding and yet a topic once again gets
> turned into a place for some to place their **** for all to see. Lets
> get back on the bike here. Topic: riding a bike/packing heat Good thing,
> bad thing? What kind a gun to carry? Do shot guns and low racers
> compliment one another? Are swords a good alternative, or do they just
> add more weight? We have a right to bear arms, but should we bare our
> legs if we have knobby knees? What kind of bike would James Bond ride?
> If you are on a training ride and timing yourself, what is the quickest
> way to dispose of some perps trying to cop your ride, while making good
> time on the road: your vote, Uzzi or Shot Gun?Discuss. Hey, if you think
> about it, a light weight flame throwing device would have to be the
> ultimate defense weapon. Well, unless you live in a windy place. Check
> that. Bullets are better. There is a tandem recumbent bike that has one
> rider facing forward, the rear rider facing the rear. With both riders
> armed and on the look out, it would be the equivalent of the Super
> Fortress of WW 2 in bike form. "Gunner to Pilot, Gunner to Pilot, quit
> running over the horse **** piles, I have no fender!, Over.
>
> I say all this in jest. Lets get back to having fun and sharing ideas
> and thoughts about BIKES/TRIKES. Yes, the world is a crazy mixed up
> place, but isn't it nice to have hobbies, like BIKING, and places to
> share your hobby about BIKING on this board and others, where the
> subject is BIKING, so you can get away from the crazy stuff and talk
> about BIKING, without having to worry about silly off topic stuff and
> concentrate on a forum that is used for people to talk about BIKING,
> even when someone gets off track you can try and steer the topic back to
> BIKING, because it is BIKING in all its many facets that brings us here,
> people who like BIKES/TRIKES, it is a BIKING community, a BIKING forum,
> a place for all things BIKE, for a BIKE can at times be devisive, but at
> its core can bring complete strangers into harmony due to some
> connection they have with their BIKES, be it wheels, frames, fairings or
> what you eat before a ride, in BIKES we share, in BIKES we compare, in
> BIKES we may even argue, but BIKES are why we are here. Lets get back on
> the BIKE guys. Peace
>
>
>
> --
 
Beastt <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Edward Dolan wrote:

> > Beastt <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>... Edward Dolan wrote:
> > > > But the main difference between then and now is that the American people are a great and
> > > > good people, unlike the Germans prior to WWII. Ed Dolan - Minnesota
> > >
> > > *sigh* Alas, mirrors are never as accurate as windows.
> > >
> > > The Germans thought of themselves as great and good people, just trying to strengthen their
> > > race. Good or bad lies within actions not self- appraisal. Invading and over-throwing
> > > despite the recommendations of an organization which to consider yourself a member of is
> > > classified as a war crime. It's not good.

> > The Germans have never been good neighbors in Europe since even before the days of WWI.
> > Germany came late to a united nationhood (as did Italy also) compared to Britain and France
> > and made a nuisance of itself in the attempt to catch up. The fact that ****** could come to
> > power by free elections in Germany tells me that there was something seriously lacking in the
> > German character. And then their conduct in WWII confirms it. To attribute all this very bad
> > behavior to ****** and Nazism is a great mistake. Nazism was something that was just added on
> > to the rotten German nation. No one man (******) and no one political party (Nazism) can
> > explain Germany. To somehow equate Germany with the US is total insanity. The US was totally
> > justified in its war against Afghanistan and Iraq. I can think of several other rogue nations
> > too that deserve our attention with respect to possible regime change if they don't change
> > their evil ways. Ed Dolan - Minnesota
>
>
>
> Who appointed the U.S. as world police? We, (the U.S.) did. That's the act of a society which
> believes more in dictatorial systems than in democratic ones. The U.N. is supposed to serve this
> function but since we, (the U.S.), didn't care for their judgement we just went ahead and did
> what some of us, those in power, wanted to do. On a smaller scale... any smaller scale, that's
> referred to as taking the law into your own hands and is strictly forbidden.
>
> Wrong is wrong even if you believe yourself to be so good that your actions are incapable of
> being inappropriate. We wouldn't want or allow another country to invade us and over-throw our
> government. What makes us more deserving of the right to remain uninvaded and not ruled by an
> outside nation when we won't recognize that right for other nations?

Here is a post from Zippy which pretty much addresses your viewpoint as far as I am concerned:

On 19 Feb 2004 23:56:25 -0800, [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote:

> > To somehow equate Germany with the US is total insanity.

>And yet it is at the core of anti-Americanism.

>The screed of the left usually reduces to moral equivalency, moral relativism, radical
>egalitarianism, and when all else fails, "Tu quoque".

In short, you are making the classic liberal error of equating that which cannot be equated.

As for the UN and other international organizations, I have stated my opinion of them so many
times already on this forum that I dare not repeat myself for fear of boring everyone to death.
Suffice it to say, your faith in international organizations and most particularly the UN is not
only wrong headed but pathetic and pitiful. The only cure for it is to read widely the history of
these organizations and how they have failed over and over again. There are some few things they
can do rather well; the one thing they can't do is to ensure world order and peace. Only the US
can do that.

But I am glad to see that you are no longer defending the goodness and greatness of the German
people, most especially as they were prior to the rise of ******.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 

Similar threads