Bradley Wiggins: a pro cyclist with integrity.



rob of the og said:
I agree. The cycling scene in the UK is very dominated towards the track, because of the way that funding is set up: the British funding is awarded based on Olympic and Commonwealth golds achieved, and to put it simply there are more medals available, and fewer uncontrolable variables, on the track than on the road. So, our best youngsters are made to ride the track on the WCPP if they want any support. British Cycling is now recognised as a national example of best practice, and other sports are trying to catch up to try to retain their funding. But it means that our best riders aren't even transferring to the road until their mid 20s, like Wiggins, and have a lot of catching up to do. Contrast to Ireland, who send their youngsters to a camp in Belgium to learn to race.

In terms of the drugs question for trackies: we're constantly told here in the UK that of course our track team is clean, and that they are leading the way in demonstrating what can be done without drugs. Looking at it objectively though, it doesn't stack up: Britain has gone from nowhere 10 years ago, to one of the leading track nations in the world virtually overnight. Our model was always said to be based on that of the AIS, but mentions of that have gone a bit quiet recently. Much as it would be nice to think that 'our boys' were clean (and I've ridden with some of those guys since they were in the youth categories) I know what people looking in from other countries must think and it's hard to think of any rational explanation not to agree.
To divert the topic for a minute. I have been a fan of British cycling for many years. I question as to why the Brits have not produced more roadmen..... We know of their success on the track. I have just assumed maybe GB is not conducive to training on the roads, and potential cyclists just gravitate towards the track. [I found that true for some big city cyclists here in the states] I see your point about more medals and more control over the varibles...
I personally love the track.... I think it is exciting, more fan friendly and if a velodrome is available, should be more affordable.....
And I love the sprinters......
 
Track riders are superior to endurance-based riders on the:

velodrome
open road
wind tunnel
stationary trainer
rollers
underwater

Lim & meehs tend confuse "Grand Tour Guinae Pig" with 'road man'. Grand Tour winners are slugs compared to a mediocre pursuiter.

Question: Which Lance Pharmstrong myth was correct?
1) a new work ethic post Cancer (a lazy slob before)
2) clever new pedal spinning
3) pulling up on his stroke (hard to do if you spin fast)
4) wind tunnel position
5) Michele Ferrari retooling
6) commercial sponsor fund influencing promoters for his victories
7) exemption from all doping violations
8) lack of strong competition (or paid losers)
9) an act of God
10) a Nike miracle
Track riders can be made to climb mountains. Bradley McGee is proof.
 
Flyer's.Finale! said:
Same can be said about having the best access to Italian blood doping programs.


Anyone think Lance Armstrong could complete a stage of the TDF without medical help?

Yes, and others too. Like say, Kjell Carlström (Liquigas). You probably haven't heard of him, but he has finished the TdF which requires making the time cutoff for every stage. I'm pretty damn sure he isn't on anything.
Sure he can move too:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2...hotos/2006/tour06/tour068/S-CARLSTROMTOUR2688

Now to place top ten, then I would say no.

-bikeguy
 
Pretty damn sure these doping products are used by 'clean athletes' racing in, and training for 21 day stage races:


Daily injections of:
testosterone
hGH
micro doses of EPO
insulin-glucose post meal
saline IV feeds
stimulants (caffeine to Pot Belge)
cortisone or corticosteroids
asthma inhalation of Salbutamol
sleeping medication
That's all considered clean doping whislt riding for a top 160 GC!!!!!!!!!

Top ten and teammate assistance for a top ten:
add:
More of everything mentioned
blood transfusiuons
more EPO
IGF-1
Interleukins
blood thinners
more saline feeds
research drugs (eg: C.E.R.A., Hess, bovine-based blood)
Other dope

Peace.
 
Flyer's.Finale! said:
Lim & meehs tend confuse "Grand Tour Guinae Pig" with 'road man'. Grand Tour winners are slugs compared to a mediocre pursuiter.

What do you mean by this FF? To me, all of the consistent GT, GC competitors are roadmen. True they're juiced-up but so are the track riders. They're completely different in what they accel at (pardon the pun) however. I've never seen a top track athlete compete consistently in GT, GC...

Flyer's.Finale! said:
Question: Which Lance Pharmstrong myth was correct?
1) a new work ethic post Cancer (a lazy slob before)
2) clever new pedal spinning
3) pulling up on his stroke (hard to do if you spin fast)
4) wind tunnel position
5) Michele Ferrari retooling
6) commercial sponsor fund influencing promoters for his victories
7) exemption from all doping violations
8) lack of strong competition (or paid losers)
9) an act of God
10) a Nike miracle
Track riders can be made to climb mountains. Bradley McGee is proof.

Answer: Who cares?
 
Flyer's.Finale! said:
Pretty damn sure these doping products are used by 'clean athletes' racing in, and training for 21 day stage races:


Daily injections of:
testosterone
hGH
micro doses of EPO
insulin-glucose post meal
saline IV feeds
stimulants (caffeine to Pot Belge)
cortisone or corticosteroids
asthma inhalation of Salbutamol
sleeping medication
That's all considered clean doping whislt riding for a top 160 GC!!!!!!!!!

Top ten and teammate assistance for a top ten:
add:
More of everything mentioned
blood transfusiuons
more EPO
IGF-1
Interleukins
blood thinners
more saline feeds
research drugs (eg: C.E.R.A., Hess, bovine-based blood)
Other dope

Peace.

Are I.V. saline feeds illegal?
 
meehs said:
Are I.V. saline feeds illegal?
No--but what does legality have to do with cheating?

EPO is illegal--and everyone does it.
Blood transfsuions are illegal and Jan Ulrich does them.
hGH is illegal
Insulin is illegal
Salbutamol is illegal by Oscar Pereiro needs it.
 
Flyer's.Finale! said:
No--but what does legality have to do with cheating?

EPO is illegal--and everyone does it.
Blood transfsuions are illegal and Jan Ulrich does them.
hGH is illegal
Insulin is illegal
Salbutamol is illegal by Oscar Pereiro needs it.

I was just curious if it was illegal because I didn't think it was. I agree that there are plenty of illegal substances being used. I think it's worth noting the distinction anyway.
 
Flyer's.Finale! said:
Pretty damn sure these doping products are used by 'clean athletes' racing in, and training for 21 day stage races:


Daily injections of:
testosterone
hGH
micro doses of EPO
insulin-glucose post meal
saline IV feeds
stimulants (caffeine to Pot Belge)
cortisone or corticosteroids
asthma inhalation of Salbutamol
sleeping medication
That's all considered clean doping whislt riding for a top 160 GC!!!!!!!!!

Top ten and teammate assistance for a top ten:
add:
More of everything mentioned
blood transfusiuons
more EPO
IGF-1
Interleukins
blood thinners
more saline feeds
research drugs (eg: C.E.R.A., Hess, bovine-based blood)
Other dope

Peace.

I don't know what you mean by "clean" riding, most of those substances are on the UCI banned list. Caffeine is legal up a certain limit, but about 90% of people in this country (and in quite a few other countries too) drink coffee. Funny thing is, quite a few amateur TT riders can ride faster than Carlström in a TT, but he has the sustained ability to ride stage races. You get that by starting young and riding many years. EPO will add 3-5% which will leap you to the very top.

You're right about the salt, but I just mix a half teaspoon into a glass of water and drink it every now and then. I sweat so much training I don't
get enough in a regular diet, but that isn't cheating. Pre-cooling before an event can also help performance, that's not cheating either.

I have a VO2 max of 74 ml-kg-min (or maybe more now), and one of the other riders on our team is just over 80. Neither of us use drugs (excepting a few cups of coffee).

Bye.

-bikeguy
 
Legal doping and trauma medications can be redefined as legal---even it is cheating.

eg:

saline feeds might appear legal, however, if used to lower hct for a pre-Tour blood test---then it is illegal. however, it is IMPOSSIBLE to detect that form of cheating.

asthma medicine can be used effectively by healthy people via a false TUE

Caffeine suppositories are illegal---yet mostly undetectable

insulin, hGH, eGH, IGF-1, research drugs, micro dosing EPO are all undetectable.

Testosterone is DETECTABLE--yet NO testing is performed for it. T/E ratios only, means 100% can dope and still be considered 'clean'.

The words 'clean' or 'integrity' are marketing terms used to fool a naive public.

Clean riders are dirty too. Wiggins may be in a TDF for marketing reasons and be dosing Deca Durabolin to hold on to his muscle mass for the track, his #1 priority for commercial fame. Few riders are ever tested for drugs in a TDF.
 
bikeguy said:
EPO will add 3-5% which will leap you to the very top.
5% it's just the boost with no training for everybody, but if you are aware and an athlete, you can win 10-15% and if you added others stuff you are able to obtain around 20 or 25% more performance with the famous "hard work" or hard training!
 
poulidor said:
5% it's just the boost with no training for everybody, but if you are aware and an athlete, you can win 10-15% and if you added others stuff you are able to obtain around 20 or 25% more performance with the famous "hard work" or hard training!

Which totally substansiates the case that if any are using PED's, they're all using PED's. Assuming all of the riders were at more or less the same level without dope, but you had the "dopers" operating at a level 20%-25% higher than the "non-dopers", you'd have the "dopers" finishing the TdF 20%-25% faster than the "non-dopers". So if Landis finished in 90 hours (or whatever), the last place non-doper (who's theoretically at the same level as Flyod if Floyd weren't on dope!) would finish in 112 hours and not the 94 hours (or whatever) that he actually finished in. In reality the first place finisher is something like 3% faster than the last place guy.

So either this 25% gain that people talk about is ******** or the fact that some are clean and some are "dirty" is ********. You can't have it both ways.
 
Marketing operatives insist upon myths to sell excitement.

eg:
work ethic of Lance is superior to all others
only a few bad apples cheat
20% abuse drugs and/or blood doping methods
Mennonites don't lie or drink Jack Daniels--except when drowning sorrows
Tyler had a cute dog named Tugboat, THEREFORE he a 'clean cyclist'
Johan Museeuw is the 'Lion of Flanders'
Only a 'big motor can win a TDF' Pantani in 98? Armstrong in 1995? Julich in 1998, 2003, 2004, 2005?
Michele Ferrari tests for lactic blood values near TDF time and can modify his patients by simply scheduling more training intervals.

THEY ALL DOPE just to finsh dead last and not get eliminated on time.

No exceptions to drug cheating in commercial sport. Only the methods or degrees vary.
 
meehs said:
Which totally substansiates the case that if any are using PED's, they're all using PED's. Assuming all of the riders were at more or less the same level without dope, but you had the "dopers" operating at a level 20%-25% higher than the "non-dopers", you'd have the "dopers" finishing the TdF 20%-25% faster than the "non-dopers". So if Landis finished in 90 hours (or whatever), the last place non-doper (who's theoretically at the same level as Flyod if Floyd weren't on dope!) would finish in 112 hours and not the 94 hours (or whatever) that he actually finished in. In reality the first place finisher is something like 3% faster than the last place guy.

So either this 25% gain that people talk about is ******** or the fact that some are clean and some are "dirty" is ********. You can't have it both ways.
The drag is a square function, so if you have 25% more power, you are not able to ride 25% quicker !
Have a look on movies about Lemond or Hinault and Mr60% or LA or JU when they rode on the passes, we see easily the big difference, they do'nt have the same motor!
 
Flyer's.Finale! said:
Track riders are superior to endurance-based riders on the:

velodrome
open road
wind tunnel
stationary trainer
rollers
underwater

Lim & meehs tend confuse "Grand Tour Guinae Pig" with 'road man'. Grand Tour winners are slugs compared to a mediocre pursuiter.

.

I think you're the one who's confused, FF.

If you can give me the name of a trackie who's managed to win a GT, then you can accuse me of being confused.
 
Somebody needs to get down to the velodrome and throw down some efforts.

Road stages won by a superior track rider (AIS alum):

Robbie McEwen. 88 GT victories!
11 TDF stage wins
three TDF points jerseys

Grand Tour winners engage in 'wasting activities' which explains their extreme doping.
Sprinter/pursuiters such as Mcgee, McEwen, Wiggins must avoid the muscle destruction that come from grinding out a 21 day pharmaceutical tempo race.
 
Flyer's.Finale! said:
Somebody needs to get down to the velodrome and throw down some efforts.

Road stages won by a superior track rider (AIS alum):

Robbie McEwen. 88 GT victories!
11 TDF stage wins
three TDF points jerseys

Grand Tour winners engage in 'wasting activities' which explains their extreme doping.
Sprinter/pursuiters such as Mcgee, McEwen, Wiggins must avoid the muscle destruction that come from grinding out a 21 day pharmaceutical tempo race.

You haven't answered my question.

Instead of cluttering up the threads with guesstimates - provide the name of one trackie who's won a GT.
If you can - then you can accuse me (and Meehs) of being confused.
 
poulidor said:
The drag is a square function, so if you have 25% more power, you are not able to ride 25% quicker !
Have a look on movies about Lemond or Hinault and Mr60% or LA or JU when they rode on the passes, we see easily the big difference, they do'nt have the same motor!

Oh yeah! Gee whiz! I forgot to account for the squared function of the drag! That would easily reduce a 25% increase in power to a mere 3% increase in speed! What was I thinking??? PUH-LEEZE!!!
 
Clutter is the definition of doping mythology.

A road rider is NOT a GT tempo freak.

A trackie is not a hill climber.

A spinter is not a marathon runner.

A FIFA soccer player is not fit for the NFL.

However, atheltes can and do retool themeselves via training and doping.

Bradley McGee finsighed top ten in GC at the Giro and medaled in the Olmypic puruit in 2004.

Robbie McEwen smokes most roadies.
The idea that Bradley Wiggins is 'clean' is ludicrous. Such is the definition of CLUTTER. More theater of the absurd.
 

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