Bradley Wiggins: a pro cyclist with integrity.

[meehs]

meehs:

OK, a very reasonable question.

Freddy Maertens (winningst road cyclist in cycling history)

Jeanie Longo (track, RR & SR)
Leontien Van Moorsel (track, RR & SR)

I have a strong position here.

Peace,

FF

FF, those are excellent examples of riders that support your argument. But I wanted you to give me an example of a classic road race, not a rider. You see, my angle was going to be, for instance if you said the World Championship Road Race, I would list off a whole bunch of former winners that had little to no history on the track. But I think we've debated it enough and you've made your point. And no fair naming the race now because sure as hell you'll name one that has been dominated by former track stars!

I have to admit that having you back on the forum is good (in an odd sort of way ). I makes me think about stuff I normally would not think about. That's for damn sure!

Peace!

 

[tonyzackery]

About her peptide hormones---I remain 100% correct!

Sorry to sink another myth.

Live Wrong!
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/51324

Pick and choose you favorite drug cheat.

No proof...no conviction...nothing but baseless rumor and conjecture...

 

[Flyer's.Finale!]

Only suspended logic, alcoholism, naivity or employed shilling can justify a doping apology.

Nike drug cheats to be added to the tennis dopers:
Barry Bonds
Jason Giambi
Marion Jones
CJ Hunter
Tim Montgomery
Justin Gatlin
Regina Jacobs
Kellie White
Michelle Collins
Lance Pharmstrong

They all dope. The proof in the the pudding. Live Wrong!

 

[classic1]

These would have to be some of the stupidest, most pointless arguments I've ever seen.

A grand tour contender could just as easily come from track, road, MTB, or cyclocross. To argue that a consistant Grand Tour contender has never come from a track background is demonstrably wrong. There are plenty of GT winners in the post war era with significant track backgrounds. Anyone arguing against this fact is lacking any research ability, reading comprehension and is a spastic.

 

[helmutRoole2]

These would have to be some of the stupidest, most pointless arguments I've ever seen.

A grand tour contender could just as easily come from track, road, MTB, or cyclocross. To argue that a consistant Grand Tour contender has never come from a track background is demonstrably wrong. There are plenty of GT winners in the post war era with significant track backgrounds. Anyone arguing against this fact is lacking any research ability, reading comprehension and is a spastic.

Call me spastic, but I can't name a single great track guy who's ever won a GT. Can you?

 

[meehs]

To argue that a consistant Grand Tour contender has never come from a track background is demonstrably wrong.

Oh really? Name one.

And I mean a true track rider that became a consistent GT, GC contender. Not some roadie who also happened to have some success on the track like Greg LeMond or a trackie who started racing on the road and wins stages and bunch sprints like Brad McGee.

 

[wolfix]

These would have to be some of the stupidest, most pointless arguments I've ever seen.

A grand tour contender could just as easily come from track, road, MTB, or cyclocross. To argue that a consistant Grand Tour contender has never come from a track background is demonstrably wrong. There are plenty of GT winners in the post war era with significant track backgrounds. Anyone arguing against this fact is lacking any research ability, reading comprehension and is a spastic.

Call me spastic too...... I cannot thinkof any GT contender that has came from the track.......Or cyclocross, or MTB[ There might have been one?????]

There have been GT contenders who have rode the track in races other then specific track events. Such as Eddy who rode the track in the Hour attempt..... But the Hour attempt is not a track event. There have been GT contenders who rode 6-Days for the money...... but never the reverse,......
A trackie is a whole different breed of rider.......
I need to see which GTcontenders have significant track backgrounds.

 

[Flyer's.Finale!]

Call me spastic, but I can't name a single great track guy who's ever won a GT. Can you?

You're SPASTIC Wolfie.
Patrick Sercu
88 six-days victories (an unbeaten record) AND

Green Jersey in the 1974 TDF, three stages, including a 160 km lone break and solo win

Eat that Wolf!


btw: Bradley Wiggins can dope with testosterone, hCG, hGH, EPO, insulin and stimulants asnd still be considered 100% clean under our doping system.

 

[wolfix]

Winning the green jersey is not a contender......

 

[Flyer's.Finale!]

Winning the green jersey is not a contender......

He won the jersey Wolf. And 88 Six Days races!

Helmutroole is spastic!

The definition is road racer---not a GT IV blood doper.

 

[meehs]

You're SPASTIC Wolfie.
Patrick Sercu
88 six-days victories (an unbeaten record) AND

Green Jersey in the 1974 TDF, three stages, including a 160 km lone break and solo win

Eat that Wolf!


btw: Bradley Wiggins can dope with testosterone, hCG, hGH, EPO, insulin and stimulants asnd still be considered 100% clean under our doping system.

Patrick Sercu? Wasn't that in like the 1940's? Not that it's a bad example FF, in fact it's pretty damn good! You must've searched long and hard to come up with that one good example out of the thousands of pro and former pro road racers! But still, my hat's off to you.

You're still making a distinction between road racers and GT "freaks" (as you like to call them). To make that distinction is your prerogative I suppose. And you're correct that the original debate did start around road racers and not GT contenders.

Now classic1 specifically said:

To argue that a consistant Grand Tour contender has never come from a track background is demonstrably wrong.

And well... we're waiting for him to demonstrate. My guess is that he'll have to search longer and harder than you did to pull one in thousands of those out of his ass. Not that pulling one name out of thousands proves anything other than that there might be a rare anomaly.

 

[meehs]

If you are looking for great road talent---you must first look to the Velodrome.

WRONG!

BWAAAHAHAHAHA!!! I never noticed this one before! So maybe (since you must look to the velodrome for great road talent <tee hee>), you can tell be about the success of the following great road talents in the velodrome. Unless these guys aren't great road talents?

Fausto Coppi
Jacques Anquetil
Gino Bartali
Richard Virenque
Alex Zulle
Bernard Thevent
Gilberto Simoni
Luis Ocana
Marco Pantani
Roberto Heras
Pedro Delgado
Claudio Chiappuci
Lance Armstrong
Joop Zoetemelk
Francesco Moser
Lucien Van Impe
Laurent Fignon
Ivan Basso
Charly Gaul
Joseba Beloki
Gianni Bugno
Marco Pantani

Okay, my fingers are getting tired. After you tell me how we must look to the velodrome to see how these guys developed their road talents, I'll list about a hundred more you can tell us about. Oh and unlike Patrick Sercu, people on the forum may have actually heard of these guys!

That was one of the most ridiculous statements you've made yet FF (and you've made a lot of ridiculous statements)! Sorry I didn't catch it sooner.

Crash and burn baby. BWAAAAHAHAHAHA!

 

[classic1]

Heres some GT winners

Baldini
Saronni (from the sprint!)
Hinault (plenty of track experience as an amateur)
Bracke
Berzin
Coppi (world pursuit champion)
Moser (world pursuit champ)

Then theres guys like Roger Rivere and Didi Thurau (biggest wasted talent ever? Thats a whole other thread) who had multiple top 10's in GT's.

Thats just a few at a quick glance.

Some of you guys are forgetting that in the 50's, 60's and even into the 70's there was a lot more cross over between disciplines than there is now. The sport has become a lot more specialised.

BTW, you aren't spastics. I love all of you, but not in a gay way.

 

[wolfix]

Heres some GT winners

Baldini
Saronni (from the sprint!)
Hinault (plenty of track experience as an amateur)
Bracke
Berzin
Coppi (world pursuit champion)
Moser (world pursuit champ)

Then theres guys like Roger Rivere and Didi Thurau (biggest wasted talent ever? Thats a whole other thread) who had multiple top 10's in GT's.

Thats just a few at a quick glance.

Some of you guys are forgetting that in the 50's, 60's and even into the 70's there was a lot more cross over between disciplines than there is now. The sport has become a lot more specialised.

BTW, you aren't spastics. I love all of you, but not in a gay way.

None of these guys were track racers, then converted. They were road racers that happened to ride the track....... And many road specialists can compete on the track in events like the pursuit. But your true track specialists could never compete for a GT.......
But you right, there was more crossover in the older days...... Even in America.
But the original thing was concerning BWiggans......... I just never see him a a GT podium rider....
I could see maybe a 6-day rider making the crossover with a change in training.... And possibly making the podium..... A 6 day rider would have the basic requirments of a GT contender. He has the ability to handle increases in tempo , he should have excellent recovery, and he has a great aerobic [?] threshold....... I believe TT'ing can be taught, but climbing is a gift...... so if he could climb, then I think a crossover could be made........

 

[meehs]

None of these guys were track racers, then converted. They were road racers that happened to ride the track....... And many road specialists can compete on the track in events like the pursuit. But your true track specialists could never compete for a GT........

Precisely. And that's exactly what I'm getting at. I could also come-up with a LONG list of top track racers that had no success on the road.

 

[meehs]

Some of you guys are forgetting that in the 50's, 60's and even into the 70's there was a lot more cross over between disciplines than there is now. The sport has become a lot more specialised.

I can't really argue with you there. There was a lot more cross-over back then. I think that's true in all sports. In American football players used to play offense and defense. In baseball, pitchers used to actually be able to hit the ball. There's a lot more specialization in all sports now.

BTW, you aren't spastics. I love all of you, but not in a gay way.

I love everyone here too (but not in a "gay" way... Helmut's going to have a field day with this) even FF!

 

[Flyer's.Finale!]

WRONG!

BWAAAHAHAHAHA!!! I never noticed this one before! So maybe (since you must look to the velodrome for great road talent <tee hee>), you can tell be about the success of the following great road talents in the velodrome. Unless these guys aren't great road talents?

Fausto Coppi
Jacques Anquetil
Gino Bartali
Richard Virenque
Alex Zulle
Bernard Thevent
Gilberto Simoni
Luis Ocana
Marco Pantani
Roberto Heras
Pedro Delgado
Claudio Chiappuci
Lance Armstrong
Joop Zoetemelk
Francesco Moser
Lucien Van Impe
Laurent Fignon
Ivan Basso
Charly Gaul
Joseba Beloki
Gianni Bugno
Marco Pantani

Okay, my fingers are getting tired. After you tell me how we must look to the velodrome to see how these guys developed their road talents, I'll list about a hundred more you can tell us about. Oh and unlike Patrick Sercu, people on the forum may have actually heard of these guys!

That was one of the most ridiculous statements you've made yet FF (and you've made a lot of ridiculous statements)! Sorry I didn't catch it sooner.

Crash and burn baby. BWAAAAHAHAHAHA!

That's what you wrote about 'Tous Dope!" Yet, they are all on peptide hormones, EPO, stimulants, asthma drugs and cortisone.

Meehs---your opinions are empty headed. You flubbed it again.

The Velodrome produces winning road riders.

 

[meehs]

That's what you wrote about 'Tous Dope!" Yet, they are all on peptide hormones, EPO, stimulants, asthma drugs and cortisone.

Meehs---your opinions are empty headed. You flubbed it again.

The Velodrome produces winning road riders.

WRONG!!!

Never once have I said that GT riders aren't using PED's. If your arguement is going down the toilet, put words in your opponents mouth! Right FF?

If I "flubbed it" then start telling me about the velodrome success of the riders that I listed before they hit the road. Once your done telling me about their success in the velodrome, I'll list another twenty riders and you can tell us how they honed their skills on the track.

Yet another case where you're clearly wrong and rather than listen to logic you just take your side and fight. Talk about empty headed opinions! Mine isn't even not an opinion, it's FACT.

When wrong, just fall back on your usual "Tous Dope" banter! Right?

Go on, we're waiting for you to tell us how all of the great roadmen that I listed in my previous post first developed their skills in the velodrome!

 

[Flyer's.Finale!]

WRONG!!!

Never once have I said that GT riders aren't using PED's. If your arguement is going down the toilet, put words in your opponents mouth! Right FF?

If I "flubbed it" then start telling me about the velodrome success of the riders that I listed before they hit the road. Once your done telling me about their success in the velodrome, I'll list another twenty riders and you can tell us how they honed their skills on the track.

Yet another case where you're clearly wrong and rather than listen to logic you just take your side and fight. Talk about empty headed opinions! Mine isn't even not an opinion, it's FACT.

When wrong, just fall back on your usual "Tous Dope" banter! Right?

Not Wrong Yet!

I asked Floyd where his IV pole was? He responded that he preferred the hotel room picture hooks instead. No excess medical supplies that way.

He is a crafty one, that dugged out Mennonite!

 

[Eldrack]

Need some burn ointment Flyer's.Finale!? You seem to be getting roasted in this particular flame war.