Brake boosters?

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by Shaun Rimmer, Apr 11, 2003.

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  1. Shaun Rimmer

    Shaun Rimmer Guest

    Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of suss forks? (02
    'zocchi MXR's)?

    They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself, but
    there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I can tell
    mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is visually
    noticeable.

    My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any experiences? Knowledge? Conjecture?

    As ever, TIA!

    Shaun aRe - 'I like it stiffer up front.'
     
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  2. Carla A-G

    Carla A-G Guest

    "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of
    suss
    > forks? (02 'zocchi MXR's)?
    >
    > They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
    > but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I can
    > tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is visually
    > noticeable.
    >
    > My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any
    experiences?
    > Knowledge? Conjecture?

    I used to use a carbon one with an older fork that I had, it seemed to help a little with the flex.
    Too bad you live across the ocean, I still have a couple of them that you could have tried out :-(

    - CA-G

    Can-Am Girls Kick Ass!
     
  3. Bomba

    Bomba Guest

    Shaun Rimmer wrote:

    > Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of suss forks? (02
    > 'zocchi MXR's)?
    >
    > They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
    > but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I can
    > tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is visually
    > noticeable.
    >
    > My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any experiences? Knowledge? Conjecture?

    Hmm, I thought brake boosters were to stop outwards flex when applying the brakes - mainly for the
    back with frames that have thin seat stays. As such, they really won't make a huge amount of
    difference to the torsional flexibility of a set of forks.

    I would have said that if you're finding it that much of a problem, you'd be better off upgrading to
    something with a bolt-through axle, although I know this isn't an option.

    My MXR's are pretty good actually, and although stating the obvious, are miles better than my old
    Judy's. I think you should just accept that a small amount of flex comes with the territory when
    using sus forks.

    I've just had a thought - you don't even run V's on your forks. Adding a brake booster will be a
    total waste of time, IMO.
     
  4. Simon

    Simon Guest

    "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    |
    | Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of
    suss
    | forks? (02 'zocchi MXR's)?
    |
    | They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
    | but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I can
    | tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is visually
    | noticeable.
    |
    | My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any
    experiences?
    | Knowledge? Conjecture?
    |
    | As ever, TIA!
    |
    |
    |
    | Shaun aRe - 'I like it stiffer up front.'

    I always thought brake boosters were to stop flex when braking. This is a different type of action.
    I am guessing you could just try it and see.

    http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/front_shocks_2002/product_83762.shtml

    they seem to like them..............although they like most things :eek:)

    Simon............nice|
     
  5. Shaun Rimmer

    Shaun Rimmer Guest

    Carla A-G <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of
    > suss
    > > forks? (02 'zocchi MXR's)?
    > >
    > > They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
    > > but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I
    > > can tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is
    > > visually noticeable.
    > >
    > > My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any
    > experiences?
    > > Knowledge? Conjecture?
    >
    > I used to use a carbon one with an older fork that I had, it seemed to
    help
    > a little with the flex. Too bad you live across the ocean, I still have a couple of them that you
    > could have tried out :-(

    Cheers anyhow Carla ',;~}~

    Shaun aRe
     
  6. John G

    John G Guest

    Shaun Rimmer wrote:
    > Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of suss forks? (02
    > 'zocchi MXR's)?

    Does that one have the cast or removbeable arch? If the latter, I suggest check out the Black Spire
    Arch http://www.blackspire.com/prod_barch.html And it'll let you run 3"+ tires, up front

    > They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
    > but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes.

    I get a bit of that "gritty pad rub on the rim sound" from my z.2 Atom Bombs, flicking my way
    through the tight twisties of FOMBA. If you want suspension you are going to pay a price _somewhere_
    along the line. Still wouldn't trade my trusty Atom Bomb for anything, (Except maybee a Marzocchi
    oil/coil w/ 100mm travel instead of only 80 ;-)
     
  7. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    >
    > Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of suss forks? (02
    > 'zocchi MXR's)?
    >
    > They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
    > but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I can
    > tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is visually
    > noticeable.
    >
    > My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any experiences? Knowledge? Conjecture?
    >
    > As ever, TIA!
    >
    >
    >
    > Shaun aRe - 'I like it stiffer up front.'
    >
    >
    >

    A stiffer hub/QR would probably have a greater effect. Especially the type where the QR skewer is
    close to the same diameter of the hole through the axle. Formula makes one like this.
    --
    _________________________
    Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com
     
  8. Shaun Rimmer

    Shaun Rimmer Guest

    bomba <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Shaun Rimmer wrote:
    >
    > > Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of
    suss
    > > forks? (02 'zocchi MXR's)?
    > >
    > > They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
    > > but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I
    > > can tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is
    > > visually noticeable.
    > >
    > > My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any
    experiences?
    > > Knowledge? Conjecture?
    >
    > Hmm, I thought brake boosters were to stop

    <[1] outwards flex when applying
    > the brakes - mainly for the back with frames that have thin seat stays.

    They are. Where did I say or suggest they weren't, eh? Harrumph!

    > As such, they really won't make a huge amount of difference to the

    >[2] torsional flexibility of a set of forks.

    Why so? I'm _asking_, right, because just because [1] is true, it doesn't _necessarily_ mean that
    [2] is. They may or may not (I dunno first hand, hence me asking) posess enough torsional rigidity.

    > I would have said that if you're finding it that much of a problem,

    More an anoyance (no Wheeler, this ain't your cue!) that it takes some from crisp steering response.

    > you'd be better off upgrading to something with a bolt-through axle, although I know this isn't
    > an option.

    Truth mate ;-(

    > My MXR's are pretty good actually, and although stating the obvious, are miles better than my old
    > Judy's. I think you should just accept that a small amount of flex comes with the territory when
    > using sus forks.

    Maybe - but if I can reduce that flex by a significant proportion by bolting on a booster, then WTF
    not do it?

    > I've just had a thought - you don't even run V's on your forks. Adding a brake booster will be a
    > total waste of time, IMO.

    I know I'm not running V's, and I'm not bothered about the forks spreading outward ('cos the don't).

    Cheers!

    Shaun aRe
     
  9. Shaun Rimmer

    Shaun Rimmer Guest

    Simon <news[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > |
    > | Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of
    > suss
    > | forks? (02 'zocchi MXR's)?
    > |
    > | They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
    > | but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I
    > | can tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is
    > | visually noticeable.
    > |
    > | My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any
    > experiences?
    > | Knowledge? Conjecture?
    > |
    > | As ever, TIA!
    > |
    > |
    > |
    > | Shaun aRe - 'I like it stiffer up front.'
    >
    > I always thought brake boosters were to stop flex when braking.

    They _are_!!!!!! (aarrrggg!).

    > This is a different type of action.

    A safety pin is designed for holding pieces of cloth together, but it's perfectly adequate for
    bursting ballons with. These are different types of actions, yes?

    I'm just asking if by their nature, and their positioning, they might 'accidentally/incidentally'
    posess enough torsional rigidity to make a worth while difference.

    > I am guessing you could just try it and see.

    Aye - I could throw cash at the problem blindly and hope I suppose, or I could ask some quastions
    first and maybe, just maybe, someone will already have done that and know........ ',;~}~

    > http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/front_shocks_2002/product_83762.shtml
    >
    > they seem to like them..............although they like most things :eek:)

    Aye, I know - they _are_ great forks for the money, and comparitively, very stiff. Still, there's
    some flex there I would get rid of if I could do it cheaply enough.

    > Simon............nice|

    Shaun aRe - not disappointed with mine at all.
     
  10. Chris

    Chris Guest

    "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of
    suss
    > forks? (02 'zocchi MXR's)?
    >
    > They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
    > but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I can
    > tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is visually
    > noticeable.
    >
    > My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any
    experiences?
    > Knowledge? Conjecture?
    >
    > As ever, TIA!
    >
    >
    >
    > Shaun aRe - 'I like it stiffer up front.'

    I'm not sure you would see a difference...the boosters are arch-shaped 'cuz they're not 'sposed to
    open up...unless they were 1/4" thick steel, I can't imagine they'd offer a lot of front-to-back
    rigidity. I say go machine a thick ass steel horseshoe and bolt that 2-pound dealie onto your Zoke.
    It'll feel stiffer 'cuz you're riding slower :)

    Chris
     
  11. Chris

    Chris Guest

    "John G" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > I get a bit of that "gritty pad rub on the rim sound" from my z.2 Atom Bombs, flicking my way
    > through the tight twisties of FOMBA. If you want suspension you are going to pay a price
    > _somewhere_ along the line. Still wouldn't trade my trusty Atom Bomb for anything, (Except maybee
    > a Marzocchi oil/coil w/ 100mm travel instead of only 80 ;-)
    >
    >

    I get that gritty pad rub a lot too...but I get it carving turns when I commute, ride on trails,
    ride on the road...pretty much any time I turn hard in the wet/mud. I had hoped and prayed it was a
    limp wheelset, but new and better ones didn't help much. I run my Vs with real, real tight clearance
    to the rim, so opening them up could help. Guess my cookie-cutter just has weak ass pivots (I get it
    more in the rear than in the front - no jokes Rimmer).

    Chris
     
  12. "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of
    suss
    > forks? (02 'zocchi MXR's)?
    >
    > They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
    > but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I can
    > tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is visually
    > noticeable.
    >
    > My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any
    experiences?
    > Knowledge? Conjecture?
    >
    > As ever, TIA!
    >
    >
    >
    > Shaun aRe - 'I like it stiffer up front.'
    >

    Shaun, she'll still love you if you spend all the ring money on these:

    <http://www.hanebrink.net/forks/ride/index.html
     
  13. Sorni

    Sorni Guest

    "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > Guess my cookie-cutter just has weak ass pivots (I get it more in the rear
    than in the front

    You braggin' or complainin'?!?

    Bill "never saw an ass pivot (as opposed to a pivoting ass)" S.

    PS: Don't see how a brake booster can help with fork flex while using disc brakes, Shaun, but let
    us know if it does!
     
  14. Shaun Rimmer

    Shaun Rimmer Guest

    spademan o---[) * <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of
    > suss
    > > forks? (02 'zocchi MXR's)?
    > >
    > > They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
    > > but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I
    > > can tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is
    > > visually noticeable.
    > >
    > > My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any
    > experiences?
    > > Knowledge? Conjecture?
    > >
    > > As ever, TIA!
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Shaun aRe - 'I like it stiffer up front.'
    > >
    >
    > Shaun, she'll still love you if you spend all the ring money on these:
    >
    > <http://www.hanebrink.net/forks/ride/index.html>

    Heh, more like she'll still love my pulped remains...............

    Shaun aRe - They do look kinda nice though..............
     
  15. Shaun Rimmer

    Shaun Rimmer Guest

    John G <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > Shaun Rimmer wrote:
    > > Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of
    suss
    > > forks? (02 'zocchi MXR's)?
    >
    >
    > Does that one have the cast or removbeable arch? If the latter, I suggest check out the Black
    > Spire Arch http://www.blackspire.com/prod_barch.html And it'll let you run 3"+ tires, up front

    Nah - they're the one piece mag lowers, cryofit.

    > > They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
    > > but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes.
    >
    > I get a bit of that "gritty pad rub on the rim sound" from my z.2 Atom Bombs, flicking my way
    > through the tight twisties of FOMBA. If you want suspension you are going to pay a price
    > _somewhere_ along the line.

    Oh aye, I know!

    > Still wouldn't trade my trusty Atom Bomb for anything, (Except maybee a Marzocchi oil/coil w/
    > 100mm travel instead of only 80 ;-)

    Heh!

    The lad at the LBS who does trials suggested a decent booster would be worth while. Said he'd done
    the same when he was using his hard tail for semi-trials stuff and it worked well. I'll prolly give
    it a shot.

    Cheers.

    Shaun aRe
     
  16. Shaun Rimmer

    Shaun Rimmer Guest

    Chris <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of
    > suss
    > > forks? (02 'zocchi MXR's)?
    > >
    > > They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
    > > but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I
    > > can tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is
    > > visually noticeable.
    > >
    > > My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any
    > experiences?
    > > Knowledge? Conjecture?
    > >
    > > As ever, TIA!
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Shaun aRe - 'I like it stiffer up front.'
    >
    > I'm not sure you would see a difference...the boosters are arch-shaped
    'cuz
    > they're not 'sposed to open up...

    And because they need to be to fit there...... ',;~}~

    > unless they were 1/4" thick steel, I can't imagine they'd offer a lot of front-to-back rigidity. I
    > say go machine a thick ass steel horseshoe and bolt that 2-pound dealie onto your Zoke. It'll feel
    > stiffer 'cuz you're riding slower :)
    >
    > Chris

    Fuggedaboudit!

    Shaun aRe
     
  17. Shaun Rimmer

    Shaun Rimmer Guest

    Sorni <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >

    > PS: Don't see how a brake booster can help with fork flex while using
    disc
    > brakes, Shaun, but let us know if it does!

    Well, in theory, the fork legs are 'twisting' around on the axis created by where the arch joins
    them. A thought a booster may help stop them from twisting, and if you look at where it mounts,
    you'll maybe see why I thought this.

    Anyhow, it has been suggested to me by someone I know that it does help, and enough to make it worth
    while (mentioned in reply to Clydesdale).

    Cheers.

    Shaun aRe
     
  18. Bomba

    Bomba Guest

    Shaun Rimmer wrote:
    > Sorni <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>"Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >
    >
    >>PS: Don't see how a brake booster can help with fork flex while using
    >
    > disc
    >
    >>brakes, Shaun, but let us know if it does!
    >
    >
    > Well, in theory, the fork legs are 'twisting' around on the axis created by where the arch joins
    > them. A thought a booster may help stop them from twisting, and if you look at where it mounts,
    > you'll maybe see why I thought this.

    As previously mentioned, you'd see more benefit from tightening the lower end of the legs at the
    axle as this is the point that sees most deflection. Added to which, a brake booster is supposed to
    prevent outward flex, not twisting. That's not to say that extra metal there won't help, but there
    wasn't enough of an advantage that Marzocchi thought to add extra material to the bridge.

    On a Judy, it may well make an appreciable difference, but I would imagine that installing it on an
    already stiff fork will give you reduced returns.

    > Anyhow, it has been suggested to me by someone I know that it does help, and enough to make it
    > worth while (mentioned in reply to Clydesdale).

    Give it a crack and then report back here. My theories are mere conjecture, so some real world
    experience would be good. Just make sure you don't fall in to the placebo trap :)

    --
    a.m-b FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/ambfaq.htm

    b.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm
     
  19. John G

    John G Guest

    Shaun Rimmer wrote:
    > John G <[email protected]> wrote
    >>Shaun Rimmer wrote:
    >>
    >>> Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of suss forks? (02 'zocchi
    >>> MXR's)?

    >>Does that one have the cast or removbeable arch? If the latter, I suggest check out the Black
    >>Spire Arch http://www.blackspire.com/prod_barch.html And it'll let you run 3"+ tires, up front
    >
    >
    > Nah - they're the one piece mag lowers, cryofit.

    Ohh very well then just send me your 02's and I'll ship you off my 99's
    w/ Blackspire arch, problem solved, everybody is happy happy.

    Somewhere in the pile-O'Crap I have a carbon fibre brake booster.. I'll see if I can;t dig it up and
    mail it off, shuldn't be more than a dollar to send to the UK. You still at the same address?
     
  20. Shaun Rimmer

    Shaun Rimmer Guest

    John G <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > Shaun Rimmer wrote:
    > > John G <[email protected]> wrote
    > >>Shaun Rimmer wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of suss forks? (02 'zocchi
    > >>> MXR's)?
    >
    > >>Does that one have the cast or removbeable arch? If the latter, I suggest check out the Black
    > >>Spire Arch http://www.blackspire.com/prod_barch.html And it'll let you run 3"+ tires, up front
    > >
    > >
    > > Nah - they're the one piece mag lowers, cryofit.
    >
    > Ohh very well then just send me your 02's and I'll ship you off my 99's
    > w/ Blackspire arch, problem solved, everybody is happy happy.

    Heheheh - yeah, I'm full of tricks like that ',;~}~

    > Somewhere in the pile-O'Crap I have a carbon fibre brake booster.. I'll see if I can;t dig it up
    > and mail it off, shuldn't be more than a dollar to send to the UK.

    OooOOO.........how easy is it to ship beer to the US? ',;~}~

    > You still at the same address?

    The Co. one? Yeah, but I've moved home twice ',;~}~

    Shaun aRe - 'shacked up' ........heheheheh!
     
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