Brake boosters?

[Shaun Rimmer]

Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of suss forks? (02
'zocchi MXR's)?

They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself, but
there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I can tell
mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is visually
noticeable.

My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any experiences? Knowledge? Conjecture?

As ever, TIA!

Shaun aRe - 'I like it stiffer up front.'

 

[Carla A-G]

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of
suss
> forks? (02 'zocchi MXR's)?
>
> They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
> but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I can
> tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is visually
> noticeable.
>
> My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any
experiences?
> Knowledge? Conjecture?

I used to use a carbon one with an older fork that I had, it seemed to help a little with the flex.
Too bad you live across the ocean, I still have a couple of them that you could have tried out :-(

- CA-G

Can-Am Girls Kick Ass!

 

[Bomba]

Shaun Rimmer wrote:

> Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of suss forks? (02
> 'zocchi MXR's)?
>
> They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
> but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I can
> tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is visually
> noticeable.
>
> My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any experiences? Knowledge? Conjecture?

Hmm, I thought brake boosters were to stop outwards flex when applying the brakes - mainly for the
back with frames that have thin seat stays. As such, they really won't make a huge amount of
difference to the torsional flexibility of a set of forks.

I would have said that if you're finding it that much of a problem, you'd be better off upgrading to
something with a bolt-through axle, although I know this isn't an option.

My MXR's are pretty good actually, and although stating the obvious, are miles better than my old
Judy's. I think you should just accept that a small amount of flex comes with the territory when
using sus forks.

I've just had a thought - you don't even run V's on your forks. Adding a brake booster will be a
total waste of time, IMO.

 

[Simon]

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
|
| Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of
suss
| forks? (02 'zocchi MXR's)?
|
| They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
| but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I can
| tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is visually
| noticeable.
|
| My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any
experiences?
| Knowledge? Conjecture?
|
| As ever, TIA!
|
|
|
| Shaun aRe - 'I like it stiffer up front.'

I always thought brake boosters were to stop flex when braking. This is a different type of action.
I am guessing you could just try it and see.

http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/front_shocks_2002/product_83762.shtml

they seem to like them..............although they like most things )

Simon............nice|

 

[Shaun Rimmer]

Carla A-G <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of
> suss
> > forks? (02 'zocchi MXR's)?
> >
> > They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
> > but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I
> > can tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is
> > visually noticeable.
> >
> > My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any
> experiences?
> > Knowledge? Conjecture?
>
> I used to use a carbon one with an older fork that I had, it seemed to
help
> a little with the flex. Too bad you live across the ocean, I still have a couple of them that you
> could have tried out :-(

Cheers anyhow Carla ',;~}~

Shaun aRe

 

[John G]

Shaun Rimmer wrote:
> Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of suss forks? (02
> 'zocchi MXR's)?

Does that one have the cast or removbeable arch? If the latter, I suggest check out the Black Spire
Arch http://www.blackspire.com/prod_barch.html And it'll let you run 3"+ tires, up front

> They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
> but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes.

I get a bit of that "gritty pad rub on the rim sound" from my z.2 Atom Bombs, flicking my way
through the tight twisties of FOMBA. If you want suspension you are going to pay a price _somewhere_
along the line. Still wouldn't trade my trusty Atom Bomb for anything, (Except maybee a Marzocchi
oil/coil w/ 100mm travel instead of only 80 ;-)

 

[Chris Phillipo]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of suss forks? (02
> 'zocchi MXR's)?
>
> They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
> but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I can
> tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is visually
> noticeable.
>
> My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any experiences? Knowledge? Conjecture?
>
> As ever, TIA!
>
>
>
> Shaun aRe - 'I like it stiffer up front.'
>
>
>

A stiffer hub/QR would probably have a greater effect. Especially the type where the QR skewer is
close to the same diameter of the hole through the axle. Formula makes one like this.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com

 

[Shaun Rimmer]

bomba <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Shaun Rimmer wrote:
>
> > Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of
suss
> > forks? (02 'zocchi MXR's)?
> >
> > They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
> > but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I
> > can tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is
> > visually noticeable.
> >
> > My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any
experiences?
> > Knowledge? Conjecture?
>
> Hmm, I thought brake boosters were to stop

<[1] outwards flex when applying
> the brakes - mainly for the back with frames that have thin seat stays.

They are. Where did I say or suggest they weren't, eh? Harrumph!

> As such, they really won't make a huge amount of difference to the

>[2] torsional flexibility of a set of forks.

Why so? I'm _asking_, right, because just because [1] is true, it doesn't _necessarily_ mean that
[2] is. They may or may not (I dunno first hand, hence me asking) posess enough torsional rigidity.

> I would have said that if you're finding it that much of a problem,

More an anoyance (no Wheeler, this ain't your cue!) that it takes some from crisp steering response.

> you'd be better off upgrading to something with a bolt-through axle, although I know this isn't
> an option.

Truth mate ;-(

> My MXR's are pretty good actually, and although stating the obvious, are miles better than my old
> Judy's. I think you should just accept that a small amount of flex comes with the territory when
> using sus forks.

Maybe - but if I can reduce that flex by a significant proportion by bolting on a booster, then WTF
not do it?

> I've just had a thought - you don't even run V's on your forks. Adding a brake booster will be a
> total waste of time, IMO.

I know I'm not running V's, and I'm not bothered about the forks spreading outward ('cos the don't).

Cheers!

Shaun aRe

 

[Shaun Rimmer]

Simon <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> |
> | Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of
> suss
> | forks? (02 'zocchi MXR's)?
> |
> | They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
> | but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I
> | can tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is
> | visually noticeable.
> |
> | My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any
> experiences?
> | Knowledge? Conjecture?
> |
> | As ever, TIA!
> |
> |
> |
> | Shaun aRe - 'I like it stiffer up front.'
>
> I always thought brake boosters were to stop flex when braking.

They _are_!!!!!! (aarrrggg!).

> This is a different type of action.

A safety pin is designed for holding pieces of cloth together, but it's perfectly adequate for
bursting ballons with. These are different types of actions, yes?

I'm just asking if by their nature, and their positioning, they might 'accidentally/incidentally'
posess enough torsional rigidity to make a worth while difference.

> I am guessing you could just try it and see.

Aye - I could throw cash at the problem blindly and hope I suppose, or I could ask some quastions
first and maybe, just maybe, someone will already have done that and know........ ',;~}~

> http://www.mtbreview.com/reviews/front_shocks_2002/product_83762.shtml
>
> they seem to like them..............although they like most things )

Aye, I know - they _are_ great forks for the money, and comparitively, very stiff. Still, there's
some flex there I would get rid of if I could do it cheaply enough.

> Simon............nice|

Shaun aRe - not disappointed with mine at all.

 

[Chris]

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of
suss
> forks? (02 'zocchi MXR's)?
>
> They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
> but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I can
> tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is visually
> noticeable.
>
> My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any
experiences?
> Knowledge? Conjecture?
>
> As ever, TIA!
>
>
>
> Shaun aRe - 'I like it stiffer up front.'

I'm not sure you would see a difference...the boosters are arch-shaped 'cuz they're not 'sposed to
open up...unless they were 1/4" thick steel, I can't imagine they'd offer a lot of front-to-back
rigidity. I say go machine a thick ass steel horseshoe and bolt that 2-pound dealie onto your Zoke.
It'll feel stiffer 'cuz you're riding slower

Chris

 

[Chris]

"John G" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> I get a bit of that "gritty pad rub on the rim sound" from my z.2 Atom Bombs, flicking my way
> through the tight twisties of FOMBA. If you want suspension you are going to pay a price
> _somewhere_ along the line. Still wouldn't trade my trusty Atom Bomb for anything, (Except maybee
> a Marzocchi oil/coil w/ 100mm travel instead of only 80 ;-)
>
>

I get that gritty pad rub a lot too...but I get it carving turns when I commute, ride on trails,
ride on the road...pretty much any time I turn hard in the wet/mud. I had hoped and prayed it was a
limp wheelset, but new and better ones didn't help much. I run my Vs with real, real tight clearance
to the rim, so opening them up could help. Guess my cookie-cutter just has weak ass pivots (I get it
more in the rear than in the front - no jokes Rimmer).

Chris

 

[Spademan O----L]

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of
suss
> forks? (02 'zocchi MXR's)?
>
> They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
> but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I can
> tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is visually
> noticeable.
>
> My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any
experiences?
> Knowledge? Conjecture?
>
> As ever, TIA!
>
>
>
> Shaun aRe - 'I like it stiffer up front.'
>

Shaun, she'll still love you if you spend all the ring money on these:

<http://www.hanebrink.net/forks/ride/index.html

 

[Sorni]

"Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Guess my cookie-cutter just has weak ass pivots (I get it more in the rear
than in the front

You braggin' or complainin'?!?

Bill "never saw an ass pivot (as opposed to a pivoting ass)" S.

PS: Don't see how a brake booster can help with fork flex while using disc brakes, Shaun, but let
us know if it does!

 

[Shaun Rimmer]

spademan o---[) * <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of
> suss
> > forks? (02 'zocchi MXR's)?
> >
> > They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
> > but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I
> > can tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is
> > visually noticeable.
> >
> > My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any
> experiences?
> > Knowledge? Conjecture?
> >
> > As ever, TIA!
> >
> >
> >
> > Shaun aRe - 'I like it stiffer up front.'
> >
>
> Shaun, she'll still love you if you spend all the ring money on these:
>
> <http://www.hanebrink.net/forks/ride/index.html>

Heh, more like she'll still love my pulped remains...............

Shaun aRe - They do look kinda nice though..............

 

[Shaun Rimmer]

John G <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Shaun Rimmer wrote:
> > Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of
suss
> > forks? (02 'zocchi MXR's)?
>
>
> Does that one have the cast or removbeable arch? If the latter, I suggest check out the Black
> Spire Arch http://www.blackspire.com/prod_barch.html And it'll let you run 3"+ tires, up front

Nah - they're the one piece mag lowers, cryofit.

> > They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
> > but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes.
>
> I get a bit of that "gritty pad rub on the rim sound" from my z.2 Atom Bombs, flicking my way
> through the tight twisties of FOMBA. If you want suspension you are going to pay a price
> _somewhere_ along the line.

Oh aye, I know!

> Still wouldn't trade my trusty Atom Bomb for anything, (Except maybee a Marzocchi oil/coil w/
> 100mm travel instead of only 80 ;-)

Heh!

The lad at the LBS who does trials suggested a decent booster would be worth while. Said he'd done
the same when he was using his hard tail for semi-trials stuff and it worked well. I'll prolly give
it a shot.

Cheers.

Shaun aRe

 

[Shaun Rimmer]

Chris <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of
> suss
> > forks? (02 'zocchi MXR's)?
> >
> > They ain't bad as they are, and way better than the other forks I've had chance to check myself,
> > but there is noticeable twist-flex when quick turning from left to right sometimes. Although I
> > can tell mainly by feel (riding rigid for years helps to tell), it can be reproduced so it is
> > visually noticeable.
> >
> > My though was to put an aluminium brake booster on there - any
> experiences?
> > Knowledge? Conjecture?
> >
> > As ever, TIA!
> >
> >
> >
> > Shaun aRe - 'I like it stiffer up front.'
>
> I'm not sure you would see a difference...the boosters are arch-shaped
'cuz
> they're not 'sposed to open up...

And because they need to be to fit there...... ',;~}~

> unless they were 1/4" thick steel, I can't imagine they'd offer a lot of front-to-back rigidity. I
> say go machine a thick ass steel horseshoe and bolt that 2-pound dealie onto your Zoke. It'll feel
> stiffer 'cuz you're riding slower
>
> Chris

Fuggedaboudit!

Shaun aRe

 

[Shaun Rimmer]

Sorni <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>

> PS: Don't see how a brake booster can help with fork flex while using
disc
> brakes, Shaun, but let us know if it does!

Well, in theory, the fork legs are 'twisting' around on the axis created by where the arch joins
them. A thought a booster may help stop them from twisting, and if you look at where it mounts,
you'll maybe see why I thought this.

Anyhow, it has been suggested to me by someone I know that it does help, and enough to make it worth
while (mentioned in reply to Clydesdale).

Cheers.

Shaun aRe

 

[Bomba]

Shaun Rimmer wrote:
> Sorni <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>"Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>
>
>>PS: Don't see how a brake booster can help with fork flex while using
>
> disc
>
>>brakes, Shaun, but let us know if it does!
>
>
> Well, in theory, the fork legs are 'twisting' around on the axis created by where the arch joins
> them. A thought a booster may help stop them from twisting, and if you look at where it mounts,
> you'll maybe see why I thought this.

As previously mentioned, you'd see more benefit from tightening the lower end of the legs at the
axle as this is the point that sees most deflection. Added to which, a brake booster is supposed to
prevent outward flex, not twisting. That's not to say that extra metal there won't help, but there
wasn't enough of an advantage that Marzocchi thought to add extra material to the bridge.

On a Judy, it may well make an appreciable difference, but I would imagine that installing it on an
already stiff fork will give you reduced returns.

> Anyhow, it has been suggested to me by someone I know that it does help, and enough to make it
> worth while (mentioned in reply to Clydesdale).

Give it a crack and then report back here. My theories are mere conjecture, so some real world
experience would be good. Just make sure you don't fall in to the placebo trap

--
a.m-b FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/ambfaq.htm

b.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm

 

[John G]

Shaun Rimmer wrote:
> John G <[email protected]> wrote
>>Shaun Rimmer wrote:
>>
>>> Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of suss forks? (02 'zocchi
>>> MXR's)?

>>Does that one have the cast or removbeable arch? If the latter, I suggest check out the Black
>>Spire Arch http://www.blackspire.com/prod_barch.html And it'll let you run 3"+ tires, up front
>
>
> Nah - they're the one piece mag lowers, cryofit.

Ohh very well then just send me your 02's and I'll ship you off my 99's
w/ Blackspire arch, problem solved, everybody is happy happy.

Somewhere in the pile-O'**** I have a carbon fibre brake booster.. I'll see if I can;t dig it up and
mail it off, shuldn't be more than a dollar to send to the UK. You still at the same address?

 

[Shaun Rimmer]

John G <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Shaun Rimmer wrote:
> > John G <[email protected]> wrote
> >>Shaun Rimmer wrote:
> >>
> >>> Right, would a brake booster do much to _torsionally_ stiffen a set of suss forks? (02 'zocchi
> >>> MXR's)?
>
> >>Does that one have the cast or removbeable arch? If the latter, I suggest check out the Black
> >>Spire Arch http://www.blackspire.com/prod_barch.html And it'll let you run 3"+ tires, up front
> >
> >
> > Nah - they're the one piece mag lowers, cryofit.
>
> Ohh very well then just send me your 02's and I'll ship you off my 99's
> w/ Blackspire arch, problem solved, everybody is happy happy.

Heheheh - yeah, I'm full of tricks like that ',;~}~

> Somewhere in the pile-O'**** I have a carbon fibre brake booster.. I'll see if I can;t dig it up
> and mail it off, shuldn't be more than a dollar to send to the UK.

OooOOO.........how easy is it to ship beer to the US? ',;~}~

> You still at the same address?

The Co. one? Yeah, but I've moved home twice ',;~}~

Shaun aRe - 'shacked up' ........heheheheh!