brake pads for wet weather?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Henir Gavin, May 22, 2003.

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  1. Henir Gavin

    Henir Gavin Guest

    I'm looking for brake pad recommendations for wet weather, for my road bike and my ATB. For good wet
    weather braking, is performance necessarily compromised in dry conditions?
    - Henri
     
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  2. Richard Ney

    Richard Ney Guest

  3. In article <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> wrote:
    >I'm looking for brake pad recommendations for wet weather, for my road bike and my ATB.

    The salmon-colored koolstop pad is standard equipment for wet weather riding. You can get those pads
    to fit most popular brake shoes.

    >For good wet weather braking, is performance necessarily compromised in dry conditions?

    Yes the pads are not as soft and sticky. The difference is noticable to me but not a problem.

    --Paul
     
  4. Kool Stop Salmon. I want to get a set of these for my bikes. Just haven't found any round
    "tuit's" yet...

    May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

    Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
     
  5. Ant

    Ant Guest

    [email protected]> wrote:

    > >For good wet weather braking, is performance necessarily compromised in dry conditions?

    [email protected] (Paul Southworth) wrote in message

    > Yes the pads are not as soft and sticky. The difference is noticable to me but not a problem.

    im surprised to hear that KS salmons have 'compromised performance' in dry conditions. they are
    noticeably stronger than all the brake pads ive used in both wet And Dry conditions. maybe its the
    pads ive been using.

    anthony
     
  6. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "ant" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > >For good wet weather braking, is performance necessarily compromised in dry conditions?
    >
    > [email protected] (Paul Southworth) wrote in message
    >
    > > Yes the pads are not as soft and sticky. The difference is noticable to me but not a problem.
    >
    >
    >
    > im surprised to hear that KS salmons have 'compromised performance' in dry conditions. they are
    > noticeably stronger than all the brake pads ive used in both wet And Dry conditions. maybe its the
    > pads ive been using.

    The real benefit from these pads is that, being harder, grit doesn't get embedded in them when
    riding in the rain, like it does in softer pads. The grit is what wears out rim sidewalls. They also
    last a long time. I'm not sure what advantages soft pads may have, I haven't noticed any.
     
  7. In article <[email protected]>, ant
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    >[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> >For good wet weather braking, is performance necessarily compromised in dry conditions?
    >
    >[email protected] (Paul Southworth) wrote in message
    >
    >> Yes the pads are not as soft and sticky. The difference is noticable to me but not a problem.
    >
    >
    >
    >im surprised to hear that KS salmons have 'compromised performance' in dry conditions. they are
    >noticeably stronger than all the brake pads ive used in both wet And Dry conditions. maybe its the
    >pads ive been using.

    I use the salmon pads in all conditions and I didn't/wouldn't call them "compromised". But they are
    harder than the typical black Shimano or Campy pad.
     
  8. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Peter Cole writes:

    >> I'm surprised to hear that Kool-Stop salmons have 'compromised performance' in dry conditions.
    >> they are noticeably stronger than all the brake pads I've used in both wet And Dry conditions.
    >> maybe its the pads I've been using.

    > The real benefit from these pads is that, being harder, grit doesn't get embedded in them when
    > riding in the rain, like it does in softer pads. The grit is what wears out rim sidewalls. They
    > also last a long time. I'm not sure what advantages soft pads may have, I haven't noticed any.

    I think the reason for grit in brake pads is not clearly understood. The grit in the brake pad is
    primarily aluminum and aluminum oxide. I have not found rock particles in these agglomerations.
    Brake pads that generate hot-spots from inhomogeneity can cause excess local heating from which
    minute bits of metal transfer to the pad. Once started, the 'tool bit' continues to cut more metal
    and it piles up in the pad, gradually destroying the rim while reducing braking.

    I thought this might be initiated by road grit but after having the problem on clean high speed
    descents with Campagnolo, Mafac, Universal, Fibrax and other pads, I became convinced it is the
    pad material itself that generates the problem. Since rims wear significantly faster descending in
    rain where the interface is continually flushed with abrasive slurry from the road, it is evident
    that grit is not the culprit because the pads do not become clogged with abrasive lumps under
    these conditions. I have also ridden on sandy wet unpaved roads wet and dry and found no
    correlation wit grit.

    Kool-Stop is not entirely immune to abrasive lumps but even then, the obstruction can be removed by
    pumping the brake hard. THis is sometimes required on wet dirt roads. I have not had to clean a
    brake pad manually since switching the Kool-Stop Salmon pads years ago.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  9. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:p[email protected]...

    > I think the reason for grit in brake pads is not clearly understood. The grit in the brake pad is
    > primarily aluminum and aluminum oxide. I have not found rock particles in these agglomerations.
    > Brake pads that generate hot-spots from inhomogeneity can cause excess local heating from which
    > minute bits of metal transfer to the pad. Once started, the 'tool bit' continues to cut more metal
    > and it piles up in the pad, gradually destroying the rim while reducing braking.

    The worst pads I've seen with this behavior (admittedly, I haven't used a lot of different brands)
    were the Shimano "M Series" black pads. Being somewhat of a pack rat, I have a dozen or so of these
    (used), looking at them, embedded specs of aluminum are quite visible, usually associated with a
    scored track. When I dig some of the larger ones out, and forcefully rub the contents on a sheet of
    paper, there is eventually left a hard piece of grit, which does not mark the paper or
    crumble/abrade easily. It may be aluminum oxide or road grit, I can't tell.

    > Kool-Stop is not entirely immune to abrasive lumps but even then, the obstruction can be removed
    > by pumping the brake hard. THis is sometimes required on wet dirt roads. I have not had to clean a
    > brake pad manually since switching the Kool-Stop Salmon pads years ago.

    I just returned from a 3-day (~300 mile) tour of rural New England roads. The conditions were wet,
    and the roads very gritty. Coincidentally, I had just replaced the front wheel rim before I left. I
    just scrutinized the pads and rim, and found not even the slightest evidence of rim scoring or bits
    of metal in the pad. My bike has Kool-Stop "salmons" on cantilever brakes.

    I ride weekly during the winter, over the same route, with generally the same group of riders. It
    may be my imagination, but on wet rides, when the roads are sanded, especially, when you can hear
    the grinding sound of grit on the pads, it seems like my brakes stop making the sound quickly, while
    the others (not Kool-Stop) persist.
     
  10. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Peter Cole writes:

    > I ride weekly during the winter, over the same route, with generally the same group of riders. It
    > may be my imagination, but on wet rides, when the roads are sanded, especially, when you can hear
    > the grinding sound of grit on the pads, it seems like my brakes stop making the sound quickly,
    > while the others (not Kool-Stop) persist.

    The grit that you can hear is probably not the most serious offender on paved roads, but rather the
    granite dust you would feel between your teeth if you sampled the water thrown into your face by the
    tire. Fortunately slicks don't throw water into your face, something that was a great discovery for
    me when I changed from conventional bicycle tires to tubulars and later to slick clinchers.

    As I have mentioned about rim wear in the past, on a 2100 mile tour in the Alps I had rain on nearly
    all descents (paved roads) and noticed that my front rim was severely worn when I reached the top of
    the Stelvio... in the rain. I had to descend the east side using only my rear brake because there
    wasn't enough rim left to use the front brake. Upon returning home and rebuilding the wheel, I
    sectioned the rim and found the side wall had just under 0.5mm metal remaining.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  11. G.Daniels

    G.Daniels Guest

    "Ian S" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > It's easier to regulate your salt intake with something like pretzels:

    I doubt that. If someone buys a package of salt pills it's easy to carry in their race kit or keep
    at home, so the amount they ingest is repeatable, so they know how much salt they're getting. Not so
    with pretzels unless they either take care to eat the same amount of the same brand, or do the math
    with varying amounts and varying brands. Not to mention the salt rubbing off the pretzels!

    But I'm not convinced that an excess amount of salt is likely to be a problem for this guy, or most
    people, if used only for special events or special hot rides.

    > typical salt pill contains I believe 1 gm or 1000 mg of salt. Half a dozen pretzel sticks would
    > contain less than
    > 1/10th that amount.

    The salt pills I've used contain 300mg each in one case and much less in another (150mg I think -- I
    don't have a packet handy). The larger ones are easily broken in half. I've never had a problem with
    a whole pill though. Ah, I notice in a catalog a third brand which has 344mg per pill.

    Plus many also have other useful minterals such as magnesium and calcium.

    > Salt pills reportedly can make you sick.

    What reports? Are salt pills, used as directed in conditions that warrant them, likely to
    make you sick?

    JT

    --
    *******************************************
    NB: reply-to address is munged

    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    *******************************************
     
  12. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "g.daniels" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > To bad the computer doesn't allow drawings-maybe several examples of the wiper gizmos? email them
    > to AMUZI! Has anyone collected them? The AMUZI Gizmo collection !! Bresson!! The reservoir or heat
    > sink or standing wave under the pad or boundry layer is definitive as the pad(whatever shape or
    > salmon colour it maybe) comes into contact with the rim-and whatever it maybe. The maybees here
    > suggest that the definitive is more flexible than the failure of all those gizmos might suggest.
    > Witness the chainguard $2. Now there's a 50% reduction in toatal chain grim, cleaning time ect.
    > for the expenditure of $2 WITH NO MAINTENANCE COSTS!!!!!!!!! now,how many chain guard $2 passed by
    > your shop last week?? Ima goin down to the shop und cut myself some h20 bottle corner strips and
    > the rest of you can stand around with you know what and philosophize on this here boundry layer
    > problem! BUH!

    A drawing?, Hell, here's a color photo! http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/brgadget.jpg

    I've seen those brake shoe "rim wiper" gadgets come and go. They are completely useless in practice,
    ad copy notwithstanding. Of course we sell them (we also indulge other superstitions ) but that is
    not an endorsement.

    Jobst gave a clear analysis yesterday.

    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  13. G.Daniels

    G.Daniels Guest

    outasight! it never rains in california. It rains like an expletive deleted here. with all those
    maybe's its sumpthing ya gotta try fur yerself. the polystrip fits between the pad's shaft and the
    mechanism arm at first then when it works a hole can be(?) tapped and the strip screwed in beefore
    rain. beats watching reality. then there's carbon carbon, maybe that works. or sumpthin spongey?
    this linew of thought produces those gizmos and surley one good one will arise and solve the sliding
    into the canal or under the bus problem beefore shim provides an enclosed disk. NOW! about the
    dohingus sits 3' outboard of the sram two speed rear. ya know the little ittty bttty TV screen of
    unborn armadillo with 3hands' shill waving a bag of dohingi at the viewer. sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet,
    talk abt flunking physics!
     
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