Brake pads - the good the bad and the ugly?

[Velvet]

After some feedback on what others find good. I *think* I've got
what're called Calipers on my bike (Dawes Audax) - they're Shimano, and
still on their first set of pads.

Braking is good in emergencies, but only vaguely ok on downhills -
mostly down to my hands rather than the brakes I think, a lack of finger
strength to keep the brakes on hard for a long time. I'm resorting to
making myself like going down hills faster than I used to ;-)

So, since this weekend I'm fitting a new chain (less than 1000 miles on
the bike), I thought I'd start pondering on the brake pads, since
someone else said they ditched both shimano chains AND pads.

I'm happy enough with them (given the above) and not looking to replace
them with anything till they've worn down a lot more and actually need
doing, but would really like some ideas on pads that people like and
don't like - am I right in thinking there are different compounds etc
for them?

I have mavic MA3 rims in case that makes a difference - most cycling is
longer rides at weekends rather than short daily ones, eventually would
like to go tackling some of the hills around here (on road use only!)
which are bloody steep so need confidence in the brakes/fingers for those.

Don't ride in the snow/ice yet (not commuting on it means I can wimp out
if the weather's cold and horrid, I'm not *that* much of an addict yet)
but starting to not mind rain quite as much ;-)

Overall the number of miles I ride in a given month/week/year isn't all
that great currently, so I could live with pads that wear a bit faster
if they'd make my life easier on long downhills, but on the other hand
I'd like to avoid over-enthusiastic braking cos I *really* don't want to
end up diving over the bars head-first one day ;-)

Any comments on the various ones would be much appreciated.

--


Velvet

 

[Peter Clinch]

Velvet wrote:

> Braking is good in emergencies, but only vaguely ok on downhills -

Bit of a contradiction if you have an emergency going downhill...

> I'm happy enough with them (given the above) and not looking to replace
> them with anything till they've worn down a lot more and actually need
> doing, but would really like some ideas on pads that people like and
> don't like - am I right in thinking there are different compounds etc
> for them?

Yes, though also note that there's more to braking performance than just
the pad compound. Check that your existing brakes are closing onto the
rim squarely and with their whole width engaged.
The cables can also add a fair bit of friction which can lead to
problems holding onto them over time: draw them out and make sure they
haven't rusted at all, and add a smidge of grease when you put them back.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[wheelsgoround]

Any bog-standard alloy-rim blocks described as "road-type" or sometimes "105
type" from a name like Clarks will do the job just fine.

I wouldn't worry about fancy compounds or different shapes.

Far more important than pad material is whether the system is properly
lubricated and adjusted.


Ian

 

[Velvet]

Peter Clinch wrote:

> Velvet wrote:
>
>> Braking is good in emergencies, but only vaguely ok on downhills -
>
>
> Bit of a contradiction if you have an emergency going downhill...

Yes, but I find adrenaline gives my fingers added strength that I can't
usually find when it comes to emergency stops ;-)

>
>> I'm happy enough with them (given the above) and not looking to
>> replace them with anything till they've worn down a lot more and
>> actually need doing, but would really like some ideas on pads that
>> people like and don't like - am I right in thinking there are
>> different compounds etc for them?
>
>
> Yes, though also note that there's more to braking performance than just
> the pad compound. Check that your existing brakes are closing onto the
> rim squarely and with their whole width engaged.
> The cables can also add a fair bit of friction which can lead to
> problems holding onto them over time: draw them out and make sure they
> haven't rusted at all, and add a smidge of grease when you put them back.
>
> Pete.

Ah, right-oh, I'll bear that in mind. I'd be surprised if they've
rusted, given the lack of riding in the wet it's done (till recently)
and the fact that the brakes haven't got worse in the three years I've
had it (if anything, they've improved as my fingers have got a bit
stronger).

Do seem square on rim etc - I've tweaked the left/right centering of
them occasionally but seem fine apart from that.


--


Velvet

 

[Pete Biggs]

Velvet wrote:

> After some feedback on what others find good.

Kool Stop - Salmon compound, as favoured by the likes of Sheldon Brown and
Jobst Brandt, no less. Various models are available for various types of
brakes.

They work well with with MA3's in my experience. I don't use Shimano pads
but apparently Kool Stops disintegrate less than Shimanos.

Browse http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ and
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakeshoes.html

"Dual" = half salmon half black, almost as good as all-salmon.

In the meantime, it's generally worth inspecting the existing pads for any
specks of embedded metal (remove) and any glazed effect (sand), and clean
rims with detergent then meths. Be warned that the brakes might be a bit
grabby at first after all that.

Perhaps the cables or angle of pads could also be better adjusted.

~PB

 

[Arthur Clune]

Pete Biggs <pblackcherry{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote:

: Perhaps the cables or angle of pads could also be better adjusted.

I'd start here before worrying about new brake blocks, though it might
be worth checking that the current ones haven't become glazed (if they
look shiney rather than dull either get some new ones or rub them
down with sandpaper until the shiny bit has gone).

First thing to check is that the pads are close enough to the rim before
you start squeezing the brakes (ie that the cables are tight enough).
Have the cables been adjusted since you had the bike? They need doing
every now and then.

What about technique? On the descents you need to brake from the drops
not the hoods if you have weak hands.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

 

[Clive George]

"Velvet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> After some feedback on what others find good. I *think* I've got
> what're called Calipers on my bike (Dawes Audax) - they're Shimano, and
> still on their first set of pads.
>
> Braking is good in emergencies, but only vaguely ok on downhills -
> mostly down to my hands rather than the brakes I think, a lack of finger
> strength to keep the brakes on hard for a long time. I'm resorting to
> making myself like going down hills faster than I used to ;-)
>
> So, since this weekend I'm fitting a new chain (less than 1000 miles on
> the bike), I thought I'd start pondering on the brake pads, since
> someone else said they ditched both shimano chains AND pads.

'twas I. My reason for avoiding shimano pads like the plague is that they
knacker rims more than anything else.

(ok, people say keep an eye on them to avoid getting grit/metal in the pad,
but I know other makes don't suffer this problem, and I like low maintenance
)

I use Aztecs, partly because 15 years ago they seemed to be the business and
I've never felt the need to research a replacement.

(the road tandem gets koolstop/magura salmon pads, which seem pretty good,
so I'd consider those too).

cheers,
clive

 

[Velvet]

Arthur Clune wrote:

> Pete Biggs <pblackcherry{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote:
>
> : Perhaps the cables or angle of pads could also be better adjusted.
>
> I'd start here before worrying about new brake blocks, though it might
> be worth checking that the current ones haven't become glazed (if they
> look shiney rather than dull either get some new ones or rub them
> down with sandpaper until the shiny bit has gone).
>
> First thing to check is that the pads are close enough to the rim before
> you start squeezing the brakes (ie that the cables are tight enough).
> Have the cables been adjusted since you had the bike? They need doing
> every now and then.
>
> What about technique? On the descents you need to brake from the drops
> not the hoods if you have weak hands.
>
> Arthur
>

Ta to both/all thus far - yes, I'll have a look at the pads and see what
the surface is like - I've noticed the rims look scored, but it looks
like machine-made scoring since it's evenly spaced and present on all
four rim surfaces. Probably about time I checked for bits of metal and
grit anyway.

The brakes have had the cable tension adjusted a little bit - am quite
happy to fiddle with that myself when I feel either too much or too
little movement in the levers to be effective, so that's not a problem
at the moment - in fact, I'm happy the brakes are working ok, just
curious as to the different types of pads and good/bad experiences
people have had with them.

Technique... yes.. well.. as with a lot of things to do with my cycling,
it's very much a 'could be better' thing ;-)

I have yet to master getting down onto the drops at any point, let alone
when the head's already pointing downhill ;-)

I have learnt to drop the hands further down and round the hoods to get
some extra leverage, and also find it helps if I wear long-fingered
specialized gloves with little 'gecko pads' on the fingertips, but
they're not as good on the padding around the thumb/finger web as my
fingerless pro-gel mitts are so any long rides and they tend not to get
worn. Just have to be careful about bumps, cos toward the end of a
ride, my hands are tired and are easier to be dislodged by hard bumps
moving them on the bars when just the thumb hooked over the hood is
what's keeping them in place!

Using drops comes after completing mastery of signalling, I'm afraid
Get there in the end though!

--


Velvet

 

[Velvet]

Clive George wrote:

> "Velvet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>After some feedback on what others find good. I *think* I've got
>>what're called Calipers on my bike (Dawes Audax) - they're Shimano, and
>>still on their first set of pads.
>>
>>Braking is good in emergencies, but only vaguely ok on downhills -
>>mostly down to my hands rather than the brakes I think, a lack of finger
>>strength to keep the brakes on hard for a long time. I'm resorting to
>>making myself like going down hills faster than I used to ;-)
>>
>>So, since this weekend I'm fitting a new chain (less than 1000 miles on
>>the bike), I thought I'd start pondering on the brake pads, since
>>someone else said they ditched both shimano chains AND pads.
>
>
> 'twas I. My reason for avoiding shimano pads like the plague is that they
> knacker rims more than anything else.
>
> (ok, people say keep an eye on them to avoid getting grit/metal in the pad,
> but I know other makes don't suffer this problem, and I like low maintenance
> )
>
> I use Aztecs, partly because 15 years ago they seemed to be the business and
> I've never felt the need to research a replacement.
>
> (the road tandem gets koolstop/magura salmon pads, which seem pretty good,
> so I'd consider those too).
>
> cheers,
> clive
>
>

Yes, it was your post I had in mind that's stirred the curiousity ;-)
After discovering the bent link in the chain, I now have shiny new
chain, though was a bit surprised to see it has IG links interspersed
randomly amongst the HG links, which I'll attempt fitting this weekend.

Since I'll be getting covered in mucky bike gunk from that I thought I
might as well examine brakes too - having no idea how fast bikes go
through such things, this being my first 'proper' bike and all... rather
than finding out the hard way one day I don't have any brakes left

--


Velvet

 

[Peter Clinch]

Velvet wrote:

> I have yet to master getting down onto the drops at any point, let alone
> when the head's already pointing downhill ;-)
<snip>
> Using drops comes after completing mastery of signalling, I'm afraid
> Get there in the end though!

But using the drops is fundamental to safe control of the bike as that
is where you'll get by far the greatest braking effectiveness. It's
also the case that there are no imbalance effects like there are with
one handed riding, so rather than just think you'll get there in the
end, get there right away with a "can do!" attitude and suddenly your
ability to really work the brakes on long/steep downhills will be
transformed. This is (a) easy and (b) important.

There is never any need to let go of anything when moving from hoods to
drops, you can stay in touch with the bars the whole time. Go both
sides at once and that will keep everything in balance.

If you can't use drop bars from anywhere other than the hoods then there
just isn't any point in having them: you'd be better off with flat bars
and rapidfire shifters so the gears are still in constant reach. That
will make the bike easier (and safer) to ride. You can always convert
back to drops in the future, but if you can't realise the benefits they
provide (multiple positions for the hands and lower drag when you're
tucked down) they just make your bike more awkward for you to use.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Velvet]

Peter Clinch wrote:

> Velvet wrote:
>
>> I have yet to master getting down onto the drops at any point, let
>> alone when the head's already pointing downhill ;-)
>
> <snip>
>
>> Using drops comes after completing mastery of signalling, I'm afraid
>> Get there in the end though!
>
>
> But using the drops is fundamental to safe control of the bike as that
> is where you'll get by far the greatest braking effectiveness. It's
> also the case that there are no imbalance effects like there are with
> one handed riding, so rather than just think you'll get there in the
> end, get there right away with a "can do!" attitude and suddenly your
> ability to really work the brakes on long/steep downhills will be
> transformed. This is (a) easy and (b) important.
>
> There is never any need to let go of anything when moving from hoods to
> drops, you can stay in touch with the bars the whole time. Go both
> sides at once and that will keep everything in balance.
>
> If you can't use drop bars from anywhere other than the hoods then there
> just isn't any point in having them: you'd be better off with flat bars
> and rapidfire shifters so the gears are still in constant reach. That
> will make the bike easier (and safer) to ride. You can always convert
> back to drops in the future, but if you can't realise the benefits they
> provide (multiple positions for the hands and lower drag when you're
> tucked down) they just make your bike more awkward for you to use.
>
> Pete.

I suspect you're right that it would be safer on the downhills if I was
down on the drops, but so far I work around it by walking down a hill I
deem to be too steep. Obviously this is a) annoying, and b) time
consuming, but ultimately safer than not being able to brake well enough
on it, so I'm happy to do that for as long as it takes to get the
braking on steep descents better. I have a vested interest in NOT
falling off at speed, after all!

I already love the drop-bars, even though I can't get down onto the
drops yet - I have so many places to put my hands apart from on the
hoods - slightly back from them, on the corners, on the straight bits
closer to the stem, etc. All good, but not always feasible depending on
the situation/traffic/surface!

Lower drag isn't an issue - because the bike is a bit too long in the
top tube for me I tend to have my arms pretty straight rather than with
a half-decent bend at the elbows like most riders I see, which means to
get into a crouch takes very little effort for me, and I can do it still
on the hoods. Makes a lot of difference when cycling into the wind, or
when I want that extra burst of speed, and is becoming a more natural
thing to do in the burst of speed situation. Also found the bike is
becoming a bit more lively under my legs as I put the power in to
accelerate, which is quite nice, I'm almost starting to feel like a
Proper Cyclist rather than a Lycra Wearing Imposter ;-)

I've been experimenting with the drops when the bike's been on the turbo
(no problems with balance other than my own there) but it feels too
cramped really - probably something to do with me being a FBOB, and
possibly (as other half pointed out) standard/long cranks on a small
frame. Quite happy with cranks though, can't see a good reason to
change them since I can happily tromp on them when needed (apart from
going up hills!) to put the power in and not knacker my knees, despite
saddle still not being *quite* high as it should be.

--


Velvet

 

[Peter Clinch]

Velvet wrote:

> I've been experimenting with the drops when the bike's been on the turbo
> (no problems with balance other than my own there) but it feels too
> cramped really

It only needs to feel a bit too cramped while you're braking for maximum
effect though. Which is unlikely to be very long.

On the (now rare) occasions I use drop bars I rarely use the drops
except for sustained braking (usually loaded and/or in the wet): I don't
find the position that comfortable physically is why, but it feels a lot
more comfortable /mentally/ being able to control my speed properly!

Getting down to the drops is easy for short periods as there's no
imbalance. I really don't see what you have to lose from giving it a
try ASAP, except the "thrill" of walking down steep hills wheeling a bike...

> possibly (as other half pointed out) standard/long cranks on a small
> frame.

Pretty irrelevant during sustained braking on a long and steep downhill,
as there's no reason for them to be going round.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Velvet]

Peter Clinch wrote:

> Velvet wrote:
>
>> I've been experimenting with the drops when the bike's been on the
>> turbo (no problems with balance other than my own there) but it feels
>> too cramped really
>
>
> It only needs to feel a bit too cramped while you're braking for maximum
> effect though. Which is unlikely to be very long.
>
> On the (now rare) occasions I use drop bars I rarely use the drops
> except for sustained braking (usually loaded and/or in the wet): I don't
> find the position that comfortable physically is why, but it feels a lot
> more comfortable /mentally/ being able to control my speed properly!
>
> Getting down to the drops is easy for short periods as there's no
> imbalance. I really don't see what you have to lose from giving it a
> try ASAP, except the "thrill" of walking down steep hills wheeling a
> bike...
>
>> possibly (as other half pointed out) standard/long cranks on a small
>> frame.
>
>
> Pretty irrelevant during sustained braking on a long and steep downhill,
> as there's no reason for them to be going round.

Yebbut I'm not sure I want my head any closer to the ground yet on a
downhill ;-)

I think the offputting thing for me is the idea that I'd be slightly
off-kilter if I change hands down singly, but absolutely no confidence
in swapping them both down at the same time. My stomach/back muscles
are only just getting strong enough to manage one hand off the bars,
both hands off with what feels like an already twitchy enough bike -
even for an instant - is not something I feel ready to try yet.

As I said, I have a work-around until I do feel ready to give it a go,
and I'm quite happy to do that till the day comes. It's worked with all
my other little crisis of confidence bits, to the extent that I really
feel like I can trust the bike a lot of the time to not do something
daft, and I can push it (and me) harder now and know what it'll do. I'm
just one of those people who does things slowly till they've got the
trust in something.

>
> Pete.


--


Velvet

 

[Zog The Undeniable]

Velvet wrote:

> After some feedback on what others find good. I *think* I've got
> what're called Calipers on my bike (Dawes Audax) - they're Shimano, and
> still on their first set of pads.

Kool Stop salmon pads (available from Wiggle) provided they don't squeak
like hell. If they do, try the dual compound version.

 

[Peter Clinch]

Velvet wrote:

> Yebbut I'm not sure I want my head any closer to the ground yet on a
> downhill ;-)

Sorry to keep banging on at you about forcing progress, but it really
does strike me that you're not only putting artificial barriers in your
own way, but those barriers are lowering your ability and enjoyment
/and/ your safety.

You'll be lowering your centre of mass which makes it /less/ likely
you'll headplant over the bars. In terms of cranial altitude it'll
probably make about as much difference as the lean from going round a
bend, so you're already getting that bit closer anyway if you go round
any corners, so what's the problem.

> I think the offputting thing for me is the idea that I'd be slightly
> off-kilter if I change hands down singly, but absolutely no confidence
> in swapping them both down at the same time. My stomach/back muscles
> are only just getting strong enough to manage one hand off the bars,
> both hands off with what feels like an already twitchy enough bike -
> even for an instant - is not something I feel ready to try yet.

But, and it's a very big but, you can stay in contact with the bars
through the whole transfer: just slide down the outside, never leaving
touch even for an instant. So the thing you've decided you're not ready
to try isn't even something you have to do.

> just one of those people who does things slowly till they've got the
> trust in something.

Though as shown above, you may be seeking a level of trust for something
well beyond what you actually require. It's good reasoning that you
don't want to do something you're not happy with and have a good work
around for, but if there's no actual reason to do what you don't want to
do anyway (let go of the bars in this case), then you're just inventing
road blocks for yourself with /nothing/ to gain. Try sliding down the
outside of the bars without letting go on your turbo: you should find
everything stays in balance and it's quick enough that there's no real
strain on any support muscles, certainly a lot less than a sustained
turning signal requires.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Pete Biggs]

Velvet wrote:

> I think the offputting thing for me is the idea that I'd be slightly
> off-kilter if I change hands down singly,

Balance or steering need not be affected.

> but absolutely no confidence
> in swapping them both down at the same time.

You don't need to, although you may be doing that (with ease and safety)
before too long!......

> My stomach/back muscles
> are only just getting strong enough to manage one hand off the bars,
> both hands off with what feels like an already twitchy enough bike -
> even for an instant - is not something I feel ready to try yet.

To gain confidence, try freewheeling with one crank at the bottom of the
stroke with more weight than usual on that leg. Pressing hard on the
pedal like this will reduce work for your stomach and back muscles, making
it easier to change hand positions or sit more upright and balance with
one or even no hands on the bars.

I think practising that will improve your skills and confidence a lot when
it comes to descending, signalling, changing hand positions and just
cycling in general.

Next exercise is to do the same thing with both cranks horizontal with
both feet pressing fairly firmly on the pedals, balancing the forces.
This is good for freewheeling-descending.

(Pete's suggestion of sliding hand down the bars is worth trying as well,
but I find it's actually easier to take hand(s) off the bars for a
second).

~PB

 

[Peter Clinch]

Pete Biggs wrote:

> (Pete's suggestion of sliding hand down the bars is worth trying as well,
> but I find it's actually easier to take hand(s) off the bars for a
> second).

So do I, as it happens, but sliding down the bars was how I started
(IIRC, it was a while ago!) and I also tend to slide down bars if I'm
doing something like descending a very bumpy road with luggage on the
lowriders, just for that extra confidence.

I'm mainly suggesting it as a simple work around to the "but I don't
want to let go" stumbling block. Once happy and trusting, just a
straight move is easier in practice, but it's the "happy and trusting"
bit that seems to be the bar :-(

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[NC]

Velvet wrote:
>> Velvet wrote:
>>
>>> I've been experimenting with the drops when the bike's been on the
>>> turbo (no problems with balance other than my own there) but it
>>> feels too cramped really

> I think the offputting thing for me is the idea that I'd be slightly
> off-kilter if I change hands down singly, but absolutely no confidence
> in swapping them both down at the same time.


I have an alternative suggestion to Pete's on practising hand moves (which I
think is a good strategy and worth persevering with).

Try a set of secondary cyclo-cross brake levers on the tops. This allows
braking from the straight part of the tops of the bars. They are fitted by
cutting the standard brake cable outer in two just where it emerges from
under the bar tape. The lever sits horizontally along the top of the bars.
Unlike the 1970's version (commonly known as suicide levers) these seem to
work properly.
eg:
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=5360007434



- Nigel

--
NC - Webmaster for http://www.2mm.org.uk/
Replies to newsgroup postings to the newsgroup please.

 

[cd667]

What a cool first bike! Bet you're having a whale of a time.
It's already been said before, but the cables are very important. How the cables are routed around the bike is very important, as well as making sure that they are fixed properly - a cable that moves can be taking movement away from the caliper. As for brands, just make sure they're good quality - what a decent bike shop is offering is going to be ok. Personally I have had good results with Aztec, but generally I have just asked and never felt really let down. Something that is important is to make sure the pad is matched to the type of rim you're running - the not sure if yours has a ceramic coating, but if it doesn't an abrasive pad designed for ceramic coated rims won't do it any favours. Again, the shop will help.

If you think the top tube is too long, try a shorter stem. This could make a world of difference to your comfort, adding greatly to your confidence and possibly even braking. Remember that if you go down this route you will need to shorten your cables.

Let me know how you get on.

Chris

 

[Velvet]

cd667 wrote:

> What a cool first bike! Bet you're having a whale of a time.

Heh, yeah. Not actually my first *ever*, but previous was a shopper for
a young teeny girl... I realised I had to shell out more than a couple
of hundred when I remembered I had to find one that a) was small, b) was
light enough for a wimpy girl to shoulder up a flight of stairs (and
down) every time it got used, and c) that would let me put a pannier
rack on. It seemed to come down to Dawes Audax and a Thorn or Orbit
(can't remember which one it was, now) - and the Dawes was cheaper, and
came as a recommended manufacturer by several people.

After much fret and worry, yes, I am now

> It's already been said before, but the cables are very important. How
> the cables are routed around the bike is very important, as well as
> making sure that they are fixed properly - a cable that moves can be
> taking movement away from the caliper.

All seems to be fine in the fixing dept.

Something that is
> important is to make sure the pad is matched to the type of rim you're
> running - the not sure if yours has a ceramic coating, but if it
> doesn't an abrasive pad designed for ceramic coated rims won't do it
> any favours. Again, the shop will help.

Coo, didn't realise that, ta for the heads-up!

>
> If you think the top tube is too long, try a shorter stem. This could
> make a world of difference to your comfort, adding greatly to your
> confidence and possibly even braking. Remember that if you go down this
> route you will need to shorten your cables.

Yes, the bike's had two changes of stem now, and it's finally closer
(but still not 100%) on the reach - I have a short ahead stem on an
ahead/quill adapter. It's close enough that I've adapted, and when I
altered the saddle recently (brought it slightly forward after raising
it) I hated the bars being that fraction closer. Bizarre, it was such a
little change, but what an effect!

>
> Let me know how you get on.
>
> Chris
>
>


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Velvet