Brakes for Touring / Commuter Bike

[BobT]

I'm trying to select brakes and brake levers for my new daily commuting /
fully loaded touring bike. I will be using drop bars.

The frame and racks I'm using preclude disc brakes. The larger tires and
fenders preclude side-pull road brakes.

What are the advantages / disadvantages of regular cantilever brakes versus
direct-pull (v) brakes. I searched for advice and have found people that
express strong preferences for one or another without explaining many
objective reasons for their preferences. Here's all that I can come up with:

Standard Cantilevers:
Pro - Some of them have thicker pads that won't wear out as quickly as
v-brake style pads although many new models use v-brake style pads so they
don't have this advantage.
Pro - Much larger selection of compatible levers to use on drop bars
?Con - Brake arms can get in the way of heel, leg, rack, or panniers.
Supposedly less of problem with current low-profile designs
?Con - Less popular, perhaps parts would be harder to get while touring?

Direct Pull / Linear / V / Brakes:
Con - Thinner pads that wear out more quickly
Con - Only one compatible lever for drop bars, Dia Compe 287-v, or have to
add eccentric cams to the brake which I've heard have had problems.
Pro - Brake arms less likely to interfere with heel, leg, rack, or panniers.
?Pro - More popular, perhaps parts would be easier to get while touring?

Does it really matter? Would either style work just fine?

BobT

 

[Pete Grey]

I've been touring with cantilevers for >10 years. I do have direct-pull on
my mountain bike.
One added pro for the direct-pull design is that they're easier to set up,
canti's are a pain initially.

That said, I'd never use direct-pulls for touring, they're a lot more
complex and likely to fail. Cantilevers are VERY simple, the chances of one
failing are next to nil.
I've ridden tens of thousands of touring miles and never had a problem with
my XT canti's or Paul's that are on my current touring bike.
I did blow one apart on my old tandem but that was an anomoly from what I
can tell, and they were cheapies.
If you want bombproof cantis look for an old pair of NOS XT's (EBay) or buy
a set of the Paul's. Either pair will greatly minimize the chance of a
problem while touring. You're much more likely to have a rim or something
else fail than these.

Take a look at the guide plate that's on my direct-pulls, it's fairly thin
an fragile. I've had one wear out and start rattling in relatively few
miles on my mountain bike.

-pete

"BobT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> I'm trying to select brakes and brake levers for my new daily commuting /
> fully loaded touring bike. I will be using drop bars.
>
> The frame and racks I'm using preclude disc brakes. The larger tires and
> fenders preclude side-pull road brakes.
>
> What are the advantages / disadvantages of regular cantilever brakes
> versus direct-pull (v) brakes. I searched for advice and have found people
> that express strong preferences for one or another without explaining many
> objective reasons for their preferences. Here's all that I can come up
> with:
>
> Standard Cantilevers:
> Pro - Some of them have thicker pads that won't wear out as quickly as
> v-brake style pads although many new models use v-brake style pads so they
> don't have this advantage.
> Pro - Much larger selection of compatible levers to use on drop bars
> ?Con - Brake arms can get in the way of heel, leg, rack, or panniers.
> Supposedly less of problem with current low-profile designs
> ?Con - Less popular, perhaps parts would be harder to get while touring?
>
> Direct Pull / Linear / V / Brakes:
> Con - Thinner pads that wear out more quickly
> Con - Only one compatible lever for drop bars, Dia Compe 287-v, or have to
> add eccentric cams to the brake which I've heard have had problems.
> Pro - Brake arms less likely to interfere with heel, leg, rack, or
> panniers.
> ?Pro - More popular, perhaps parts would be easier to get while touring?
>
> Does it really matter? Would either style work just fine?
>
> BobT
>
>

 

[Matt O'Toole]

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 18:07:21 -0600, BobT wrote:

> I'm trying to select brakes and brake levers for my new daily commuting
> / fully loaded touring bike. I will be using drop bars.
>
> The frame and racks I'm using preclude disc brakes. The larger tires
> and fenders preclude side-pull road brakes.
>
> What are the advantages / disadvantages of regular cantilever brakes
> versus direct-pull (v) brakes. I searched for advice and have found
> people that express strong preferences for one or another without
> explaining many objective reasons for their preferences. Here's all that
> I can come up with:
>
> Standard Cantilevers:
> Pro - Some of them have thicker pads that won't wear out as quickly as
> v-brake style pads although many new models use v-brake style pads so
> they don't have this advantage.
> Pro - Much larger selection of compatible levers to use on drop bars
> ?Con - Brake arms can get in the way of heel, leg, rack, or panniers.
> Supposedly less of problem with current low-profile designs ?Con - Less
> popular, perhaps parts would be harder to get while touring?
>
> Direct Pull / Linear / V / Brakes:
> Con - Thinner pads that wear out more quickly Con - Only one compatible
> lever for drop bars, Dia Compe 287-v, or have to add eccentric cams to
> the brake which I've heard have had problems. Pro - Brake arms less
> likely to interfere with heel, leg, rack, or panniers. ?Pro - More
> popular, perhaps parts would be easier to get while touring?
>
> Does it really matter? Would either style work just fine?

With either type, the pads start to track off the rim as they wear. Rather
than adjusting them, which is a pain, you're better off with thin pads in
a slip-in holder. Just carry spare pad inserts, and replace them when the
old ones wear thin -- no tools, no hassle.

Lever compatibility is probably the main issue. Traditional cantis have
better rim and tire clearance, but V-brakes are usually easier to adjust,
and easier to get pads with slip-in holders for. While there's been a
resurgence in retro-styled cantis, there are plenty of low-profile ones
still available, so heel/pannier clearance shouldn't be a problem.

Whatever you choose, the salmon-colored Kool-Stop pads really are the best.

Matt O.

 

[Pete Biggs]

BobT wrote:
> I'm trying to select brakes and brake levers for my new daily
> commuting / fully loaded touring bike. I will be using drop bars.
>
> The frame and racks I'm using preclude disc brakes. The larger tires
> and fenders preclude side-pull road brakes.

Not necessarily.

Alhonga deep-drop dual-pivot (basically side-pull) brakes have enough
clearance for fenders and 40mm tyres. Certain Shimano and Tektro models can
take pretty wide tyres too. The amount of drop may be an issue, but this
depends on how your frame and forks are drilled.

Pro - Good braking "power".
Pro - Light action thanks to low spring force (as well as the mechanical
advantage).
Pro - Easy to setup and maintain.
Con - Quick-release not always incorporated (though the tyre can always be
deflated while the wheel is removed and fitted).
Con - Pads need to be close to the rims. As this is more of a problem for
the rear, how about dual-pivot front and canti rear?

~PB

 

[Nick Payne]

For drop handlebar levers I prefer cantilevers to V-brakes. I've tried
V-brakes both with the Dia-Compe 287v levers and with normal drop handlebar
levers with travel agents and didn't like either setup. With cantilever
brakes you can alter the mechanical advantage and cable pull to suit by
varying the height of the straddle cable above the tyre. I have the old
model Deore XT II cantilevers on my tourer with Shimano aero levers and they
feel and stop as well or better than the dual pivot road calipers I have on
several road bikes.

I also have a set of the modern Shimano BR-R550 cantilevers on another bike.
They also work quite nicely, but I don't think they're in the same class as
the old XT units.

Paul Components make what are reputed to be very nice (and very expensive)
cantilever brakes, but I've never tried them.

There is an interesting article on the subject, written from the viewpoint
of cyclocross, at http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/9054.0.html.

Nick

"BobT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> I'm trying to select brakes and brake levers for my new daily commuting /
> fully loaded touring bike. I will be using drop bars.
>
> The frame and racks I'm using preclude disc brakes. The larger tires and
> fenders preclude side-pull road brakes.
>
> What are the advantages / disadvantages of regular cantilever brakes
> versus direct-pull (v) brakes. I searched for advice and have found people
> that express strong preferences for one or another without explaining many
> objective reasons for their preferences. Here's all that I can come up
> with:
>
> Standard Cantilevers:
> Pro - Some of them have thicker pads that won't wear out as quickly as
> v-brake style pads although many new models use v-brake style pads so they
> don't have this advantage.
> Pro - Much larger selection of compatible levers to use on drop bars
> ?Con - Brake arms can get in the way of heel, leg, rack, or panniers.
> Supposedly less of problem with current low-profile designs
> ?Con - Less popular, perhaps parts would be harder to get while touring?
>
> Direct Pull / Linear / V / Brakes:
> Con - Thinner pads that wear out more quickly
> Con - Only one compatible lever for drop bars, Dia Compe 287-v, or have to
> add eccentric cams to the brake which I've heard have had problems.
> Pro - Brake arms less likely to interfere with heel, leg, rack, or
> panniers.
> ?Pro - More popular, perhaps parts would be easier to get while touring?

 

[Mark Hickey]

"Pete Grey" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I've been touring with cantilevers for >10 years. I do have direct-pull on
>my mountain bike.
>One added pro for the direct-pull design is that they're easier to set up,
>canti's are a pain initially.
>
>That said, I'd never use direct-pulls for touring, they're a lot more
>complex and likely to fail. Cantilevers are VERY simple, the chances of one
>failing are next to nil.

Hmmm... I'd have to say direct pulls are SIMPLER than a canti. Just
two arms and a pivoting linkage (as opposed to two arms, a straddle
wire and a carrier that tends to slip). I've been using short-pull
linear brakes on my own 'cross/touring frame for a few months now and
like them a lot. Just make sure that you use SHORT linear brake arms
if you mate 'em with road levers - even so, the clearance between the
brake pad and rim have to be kept very tight.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

 

[Matt O'Toole]

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:18:23 -0700, Mark Hickey wrote:

> Hmmm... I'd have to say direct pulls are SIMPLER than a canti. Just
> two arms and a pivoting linkage (as opposed to two arms, a straddle
> wire and a carrier that tends to slip). I've been using short-pull
> linear brakes on my own 'cross/touring frame for a few months now and
> like them a lot. Just make sure that you use SHORT linear brake arms
> if you mate 'em with road levers - even so, the clearance between the
> brake pad and rim have to be kept very tight.

Will short pull (short arm) direct pull brakes still clear fat tires,
fenders, etc?

Matt O.

 

[Matt O'Toole]

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:13:41 +1100, Nick Payne wrote:

> For drop handlebar levers I prefer cantilevers to V-brakes. I've tried
> V-brakes both with the Dia-Compe 287v levers and with normal drop handlebar
> levers with travel agents and didn't like either setup. With cantilever
> brakes you can alter the mechanical advantage and cable pull to suit by
> varying the height of the straddle cable above the tyre. I have the old
> model Deore XT II cantilevers on my tourer with Shimano aero levers and they
> feel and stop as well or better than the dual pivot road calipers I have on
> several road bikes.

I'm still using these on my MTB. They are indeed very versatile, as well
as cheap. A few years ago I found a deal where a whole new set of brakes
was cheaper than replacement pads. With this model, the XT, LX, STX, and
maybe Alivio are identical except for finish.

> Paul Components make what are reputed to be very nice (and very
> expensive) cantilever brakes, but I've never tried them.

The main difference between these and the cheap ones is ease of
adjustment. Shimano brakes are fiddly, with everything being held
together by a single clamp bolt. Every adjustment can affect all others.
The more upscale Paul, Avid, etc. are independently adjustable on three
axes, and therefore easier to adjust.

Matt O.

 

[Steve Gravrock]

On 2006-11-13, BobT <[email protected]> wrote:

> What are the advantages / disadvantages of regular cantilever brakes versus
> direct-pull (v) brakes.

Here are some more advantages and disadvantages of V brakes.

Pro - Easier initial setup
Con - Even with appropriate levers, must be set up with the pads closer
to the rim than centerpull cantilevers. As a result, V brakes are less
tolerant of an out-of-true wheel.
Con - Racks can interfere. On my bike that has a rear rack and V brakes,
the upper rack support interferes with the movement of the "noodle" and
prevents the opposite brake arm from moving outward when the quick
release is released. As a result, I have to let the air out of the tire
to get the rear wheel out.

 

[Steve Watkin]

Pity about the drops!!
Otherwise I would say Magura HS11, 69 quid at the CTC shop. just fitted
these to my tourer and they are great

 

[Nate Knutson]

BobT wrote:
> I'm trying to select brakes and brake levers for my new daily commuting /
> fully loaded touring bike. I will be using drop bars.
>
> The frame and racks I'm using preclude disc brakes. The larger tires and
> fenders preclude side-pull road brakes.
>
> What are the advantages / disadvantages of regular cantilever brakes versus
> direct-pull (v) brakes. I searched for advice and have found people that
> express strong preferences for one or another without explaining many
> objective reasons for their preferences. Here's all that I can come up with:
>
> Standard Cantilevers:
> Pro - Some of them have thicker pads that won't wear out as quickly as
> v-brake style pads although many new models use v-brake style pads so they
> don't have this advantage.
> Pro - Much larger selection of compatible levers to use on drop bars
> ?Con - Brake arms can get in the way of heel, leg, rack, or panniers.
> Supposedly less of problem with current low-profile designs
> ?Con - Less popular, perhaps parts would be harder to get while touring?
>
> Direct Pull / Linear / V / Brakes:
> Con - Thinner pads that wear out more quickly
> Con - Only one compatible lever for drop bars, Dia Compe 287-v, or have to
> add eccentric cams to the brake which I've heard have had problems.
> Pro - Brake arms less likely to interfere with heel, leg, rack, or panniers.
> ?Pro - More popular, perhaps parts would be easier to get while touring?
>
> Does it really matter? Would either style work just fine?
>
> BobT

V-brakes are much simpler to deal with, which can be a definite
positive in hectic touring situations, but to attain this advantage
they don't have any of the setup variability that cantis have (not that
typical low-profile canti's offer much). V-brakes tend to have higher
mechanical advantage, which is okay but has it's downsides, whereas
cantis can be setup to be more able to be modulated and also have more
slightly distance between the pads and the rim.

Current low-profile/cyclocrossy cantis will almost never give
interference issues in back.Medium- and wide-profile ones can. Having a
wider profile canti in front and a low-profile in back is a nice setup
because in general, wider profile cantis are less sensitive to their
braking characteristics changing as the geometry changes as the pads
wear, so they stay consistently powerful with little maintenance. These
issues are really the only thing that cantis have against them, and it
mostly effects low-profile canti's, and especially the super-common
very low profile canti brakes like the ones that came on millions of
MTBs for years.

287v's are relatively expensive and many dislike them mechanically.
With conventional brake levers, you have more options. You could use
Travel Agents, and they're okay, but they do add a layer of complexity
to the bike in addition to their cost.

Tektro Oryx brakes and whichever of the nicer current Tektro aero
levers suit your fancy are a really nice setup, and cheap too.

As for brake pad concerns - some v-brake pads are thicker than others
(KS Supra 2's for example), but for the most part this is an issue you
kind of have to throw out the window with current brakes, which sucks.

 

[Aman]

Hi,

Just a note to add to this discussion. I'm also currently
setting up a touring/commuter. Right not I have v-brakes with
the travel agent adapters. This is OK, But the travel agent thing
is in the way of mounting a rack on the back. Because of this
I am going to switch to Cantis.

-Alex

 

[Mark Hickey]

Matt O'Toole <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:18:23 -0700, Mark Hickey wrote:
>
>> Hmmm... I'd have to say direct pulls are SIMPLER than a canti. Just
>> two arms and a pivoting linkage (as opposed to two arms, a straddle
>> wire and a carrier that tends to slip). I've been using short-pull
>> linear brakes on my own 'cross/touring frame for a few months now and
>> like them a lot. Just make sure that you use SHORT linear brake arms
>> if you mate 'em with road levers - even so, the clearance between the
>> brake pad and rim have to be kept very tight.
>
>Will short pull (short arm) direct pull brakes still clear fat tires,
>fenders, etc?

The Tektro mini-V direct pull brakes I have clear my 35mm (true
measure) Panaracer T-Servs with a few mm to spare. It would be tough
but I think I could get a fender in there too (since a little wire
drag over the top of the fender wouldn't be the end of the world).

The frame and fork could handle bigger tires with cantis though (but
35s are more than fat enough for what I'm doing with 'em).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame