Brakes on a 24"?

Discussion in 'rec.sport.unicycling' started by innes, Mar 6, 2005.

  1. innes

    innes Guest

    I am hoping to get a new 24" Muni in a couple of months, and I am
    looking at a 24" Kris Holm, or an Onza 24".

    If I go for the Onza, I can afford a Magura brake on it, but if I go for
    the Kris Holm I will have to wait a couple of months for a brake.

    I am starting to ride up and down steeper hills now, which is why I am
    planning an upgrade from my Pashley 26" Muni. The Onza has 165mm cranks
    and a 2.6" tyre, and the normal Kris Holm has a 3" tyre with 170mm
    cranks, I thought that both would be good choices for me.

    What do you think?

    The Onza with brakes, or the Kris Holm without?

    Innes


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  2. manic_mark

    manic_mark Guest

    both use the same hub/crank system so there is no difference there. The
    165's are more suited to the uk i believe, with 170s being unnecessary,
    especially with a brake aswell. This puts the only difference as the
    tyre and frame. A 3inch tyre is nice. Takes a lot of the bumps out, but
    i have never ridden a 2.6 off-road so cannot compare. However, i have
    seen people on rides in the lakes on the onza muni's coping fine on the
    onza. It may even be better, as it is lighter, so easier to pedal.
    Personally i would go for the onza. You can always change to a 3inch
    tyre at a later date.


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  3. innes

    innes Guest

  4. DK

    DK Guest

  5. Get the KH/Onza 2005. It has the 165s, which will be better than 170s,
    and also the 3" tire. I ride down plenty of steep hills, and I have
    never ridden brakes. Also, you don't need to buy a new magura. Just
    check ebay, they go for about $20-30 all the time.


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  6. I've got the 2005 KH and my mate has the new onza. After riding them
    both I'd say go with the KH...Fat tyre fun! And you get the comfiness of
    the rail adaptor. I got a magura brake on e bay a few weeks ago for £30
    and there were a few being sold.

    Kit


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  7. I have only bumped into a single trail (about 20 feet long) where I
    hoped for a "break" (pun intended, not bone - just that the trail let up
    a bit).

    My guess is that you should forgo the brake until you are riding at the
    level that requires one: or at the level of the best riders.

    I have heard others say they are greatful they had a brake - and that
    they used it, but I noted that they didn't do anything on the trail that
    wasn't done by a dozen others sans brake.

    (My thinking is only 2 types of people use em: Guys that need them for
    riding terrain that I wouldn't walk down, and older men who must "save
    their legs from falling off").

    Methinks you'll be extremely happy with the KH2005.


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  8. john_childs

    john_childs Guest

    It really depends on the type of trails in your area and the style of
    riding that you do.

    I have a Magura brake on my Coker and I love it and use it lots. It is
    so nice to be able to put a little drag on the wheel when doing downhill
    on a Coker. It helps maintain control and it can save your legs if
    you've got lots of downhill to do. I don't *need* the brake on my
    Coker, but it sure is nice to have.

    I don't have a brake on my muni and I hardly ever miss it. Well
    actually I do have a brake for it, but the brake is sitting in the parts
    closet. I prefer not to have it installed.

    On a muni there are two situations where a brake is handy or necessary:
    downhill assist to save your legs and technical areas on the trail where
    a brake makes a section of trail possible. I have run in to very very
    few places where a brake was necessary for a section of trail due to the
    technical features of the trail. But that depends on where you ride.
    Around my area there are very few places where a brake is necessary to
    ride a section of trail. If I was riding the Vancouver North Shore
    regularly I would certainly install a brake. But I don't ride those
    types of steep technical trails often (hardly at all) so I've rarely
    found a need for the brake.

    At the California Muni Weekend two years ago we rode the Downieville
    trail. It's a long downhill trail. The people with a brake were
    walking normally the next day. The people without a brake were
    generally sore and walking funny the next day. A brake would have been
    nice there, but it wasn't necessary to be able to do the ride.

    I went riding with Jagur in Falls City. There are two areas on the
    trail there where a brake is a very good thing. One place is a steep
    downhill with a two or three foot drop at the top. You can ride the
    downhill without a brake if you don't take the drop. If you take the
    drop you need the brake because the momentum from the drop will get you
    going too fast on the downhill to be able to control. If you do the
    drop you have to apply the brake immediately when you land and then
    still pedal madly to keep up with the uni. But those situations don't
    come up very often for me. Not often enough for me to bother with a
    brake.

    A brake comes with it's set of problems.
    - A little bit of extra weight
    - More maintenance to keep the brake working
    - Needing to keep the wheel perfectly trued so it doesn't rub the brake
    pads
    - The risk of breaking the brake lever

    The brake lever is somewhat exposed and if the uni falls just right it
    can break the brake lever off. You can adjust things so that the front
    of the seat hits the ground first and protects the brake lever. But
    that only works on smooth ground. Often you don't drop the muni on the
    smooth parts of the trail If the trail is rocky or rooty or otherwise
    uneven it is possible for the brake lever to hit a rock or a root and
    break off. If you use the brake regularly then it's worth the risk. If
    you rarely use the brake then I don't find it worth the risk of breaking
    the brake lever.

    You can actually ride quite steep stuff without a brake. You just have
    to take it slow. It's when the steep downhill bits get technical that
    the brake becomes needed. And when it gets really really steep a brake
    is needed.

    At the muni weekends some of the people with a brake are looking for
    places to ride that require a brake. Often those opportunities are
    off-trail. For example they'll find a steep rock face and try to ride
    down. If that's your game then you're going to need a brake. The
    off-trail opportunities like that are usually more extreme than the
    on-trail opportunities.

    So it really depends on where you ride. You can always add the brake
    later. No need to get it right off the bat. Try riding without the
    brake and see how it goes. If you're riding stuff where you can't
    maintain control on the downhill bits then get the brake.


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  9. YEAH!! FAT TIRE FUN!!! I have a 05 muni with brake and I have become
    even dumber because it just pumps you with confidence so yeah go with
    the KH


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  10. joemarshall

    joemarshall Guest

    john_childs wrote:
    > *
    > At the muni weekends some of the people with a brake are ooking for
    > places to ride that require a brake. Often those opportunities are
    > off-trail. For example they'll find a steep rock face and try to ride
    > down. If that's your game then you're going to need a brake. The
    > off-trail opportunities like that are usually more extreme than the
    > on-trail opportunities.
    >
    > So it really depends on where you ride. You can always add the brake
    > later. No need to get it right off the bat. Try riding without the
    > brake and see how it goes. If you're riding stuff where you can't
    > maintain control on the downhill bits then get the brake. *



    I'd agree with most of what John said. Most mountain bike trails don't
    require a brake, whereas some off-trail play bits would be nice with
    one. I think in many cases people use a brake as a crutch to avoid
    learning to ride steep downhills properly. I think some people nowadays
    get brakes straight off so miss out on learning the base skills, which
    means they're just using brakes to ride the same trails as the brakeless
    people, whereas good riders with brakes can ride stuff that's just way
    beyond that.

    The other thing is that it depends how much challenge you want, I
    borrowed a brake equipped muni to have a go at a steep bit the other day
    and it was just so so easy, I'd say on that particular bit it required
    less skill to ride down with a brake equipped muni that it would have on
    a bike, let alone on a normal muni.

    Brakes are mostly useful if you're in seriously big hills, I did two
    3000 foot hills in a day once, and it would have been nice to have a
    brake as I was aching quite a lot after about 6000 feet of descending.
    After a week of those sort of hills I was really feeling it. If you're
    up in the Cairngorms riding down Munros, a brake would be handy.

    Joe


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  11. DarkTom

    DarkTom Guest

    Innes, man!

    I don't think a brake is necesssary.
    I'v got an onza 24" with no brake. I learned to unicycle on it and then
    learned to go off-road on it.
    I reckon not having a brake will make you a better rider.
    Maybe it will help on super-steep, super-technical bits, but how often
    do you find them in Scotland? I've never found one!

    The 2.6 tyre it comes with is a good, good tyre. When it wears out, get
    a Halo Contra or Nokian Gazzalodi (both 3inches wide).

    165mm cranks are plenty long enough for Scotland, and they help for
    downhill by being so long - you get loads of control with them.

    I've rode with folk with brakes but I did everything they did no
    bother.

    Hope there's some help in there somewhere!

    Oh aye, go for the Onza! Cheaper and better looking than the KH. Also
    the rim that comes on the Onza is awesome, its so big! I'v done 1m
    drops with the tyre too flat and the rim hitting the ground and no
    damage came of it whatsoever!

    T.


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  12. zod

    zod Guest

  13. The reason I have a brake is when in the North-Shore you need a brake
    because of all the trees and ladders so thats why I have a brake.


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  14. innes

    innes Guest

    Thanks for all your help everyone.

    I will wait for the brake I think. I love the look of the Kris Holm, but
    I have a good few weeks to wait before I order to decide,
    Unicycle.uk.com have sold out just now anyway.

    I don't think I need a brake yet. There is a trail that I go hill
    running and mountain biking would be a great trial to go unicycling on,
    but I don't think I am ready for it yet. There is a section on it that
    is very steep, I think a brake would be good for that section, but as I
    said, I am not ready for that yet anyway.

    Thanks again.

    Innes


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  15. vivalargo

    vivalargo Guest

    I've had a Magura brake on my KH24 since I bought it a year ago, but a
    few weeks back I busted one of the fittings and decided to loose the
    brake. I'd pretty much weaned myself off the brake over the past year,
    only using it for long fire road descents (as a drag brake) and super
    steep (for me) dirt single tracks.

    As others mentioned, sans brake, the steep dirt is more strenuous from
    all the back pressuring, and the action is much jerkier and the ride
    much slower--the principal aim being not spin out of control. Hard on
    the quads the next day as well. I've never used the brake much on
    technical stuff, but I've only ridden the rocky single tracks up in
    Santa Barbara, never North Shore type runs. In SB, I believe I was the
    only regular who ever used a brake.

    I'm not sure how a brake would actually be used on the rocky stuff up
    there--it's mainly rolling and dropping between rocks and patches of
    angled dirt, at a low rate of speed, at least for us. But I imagine a
    world- class rider could use a brake somehow, though to what advantage I
    can't say. In many cases the fun is seeing who can bomb the difficult
    straight rolling bits the fastest. Eyal, Hans, Jim and Phillip are all
    better rollers than I am and I'm pretty sure none use a brake. Jim
    certainly doesn't. He's like a torpedo on some of those runs.

    My advice: If you're going to run super steep dirt or long, steep paths,
    a brake is nice but not crucial addition, providing fluid peddling as
    opposed to comparatively jerky back pressuring. Otherwise, skip the
    brake.

    JL


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  16. go for the kh. ive got one and it is well worth the wait. the kh also
    has a wider tire which rolls better over rough terrain. you can also
    get brakes off of ebay for alot less than usual.


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  17. tomtrevor

    tomtrevor Guest

    go for the KH, and wait for the brake. Although a brake helps a lot of
    steep terrain it will probably be worth it in the long run to get a KH.


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  18. jrdugueod

    jrdugueod Guest

  19. pkittle

    pkittle Guest

    I'm one of those "old guys" who uses a brake to keep my legs from
    turning to jello. On my regular muni rides in Upper Bidwell Park, there
    are a few very steep (to me) spots with loose rock that I find quite
    challenging. I learned to ride each of these sections before I had a
    brake, but now I generally use the brake on them to help me maintain
    control. My biggest problem with UPDs is being able to stay on my
    feet--even if I'm not going very fast (and with me, very fast is pretty
    stinking slow), I often can't keep my legs under me and I end up
    falling. I can't really afford (from a physical point of view) a nasty,
    bone-crunching fall, and so the brake helps me take on steep/fast
    terrain that otherwise I might just walk for fear of injuring myself.


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  20. Brian O.

    Brian O. Guest

    +ZeroGravity+ wrote:
    > go for the kh. ive got one and it is well worth the wait. the kh also
    > has a wider tire which rolls better over rough terrain. you can also
    > get brakes off of ebay for alot less than usual.




    This post was almost a year ago, I'm sure he's made his decision by
    now.


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