Brakes

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Chris Davies, Aug 14, 2004.

  1. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Guest

    Already I have my upgrade head on (see previous thread).
    Has anyone fitted V-brakes to their touring bike? What sort of results did
    you get? I find cantilevers a pain in the a**e to set up, and I reckon I
    deserve a decent set of brakes now I'm only to have one bike.
    The Dia-compe 287 lever is interesting, never seen a bike with one fitted
    - does anyone have a set? For that matter, does anyone have a set they
    want to part with?

    Also, what would you recommend for brakes? My only consideration is that I
    don't want the bike to look too flashy. Is there a reason why mountain
    bikes use them but tourers don't?

    Thanks for your help.

    Chris

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  2. Simon Brooke

    Simon Brooke Guest

    in message <[email protected]>, Chris Davies
    ('[email protected]') wrote:

    > Already I have my upgrade head on (see previous thread).
    > Has anyone fitted V-brakes to their touring bike? What sort of results
    > did you get? I find cantilevers a pain in the a**e to set up, and I
    > reckon I deserve a decent set of brakes now I'm only to have one bike.
    > The Dia-compe 287 lever is interesting, never seen a bike with one
    > fitted - does anyone have a set? For that matter, does anyone have a
    > set they want to part with?


    V brakes are no less pain in the arse to set up - they are, after all,
    just a slight variant on cantilevers.

    > Also, what would you recommend for brakes?


    Cane Creek Direct Curve - either DC2 or DC5. The advantage is no noodle.
    Noodles are not merely a maintenance problem, they can allegedly[1] jump
    out on rough sections and then you have no brakes.
    <URL:http://www.canecreek.com/site/product/brakes/02_dc2.html>
    <URL:http://www.canecreek.com/site/product/brakes/01_dc5.htm>

    > My only consideration is
    > that I don't want the bike to look too flashy. Is there a reason why
    > mountain bikes use them but tourers don't?


    Fashion. The mountain bike market is much more fashion conscious than
    the tourer market.

    [1] by which I mean, I know people who say it has happened to them, but
    I have not seen it myself.

    --
    [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; how did we conclude that a fucking cartoon mouse is deserving
    ;; of 90+ years of protection, but a cure for cancer, only 14?
    -- user 'Tackhead', in /. discussion of copyright law, 22/05/02
     
  3. Chris Davies wrote:

    >
    > Also, what would you recommend for brakes?


    My tourer has a Weinman centre pull on the rear and an Accor dual pivot on
    the front. Not necessarily a recommendation but good enough for touring. I
    have just done 600 loaded miles with this bike, descended The Lecht at 50mph
    and never had an incident when I wished the brakes had been more effective.
    IMHO folks worry far too much about brakes on tourers.
     
  4. Simon Brooke wrote:

    > in message <[email protected]>, Chris Davies
    > ('[email protected]') wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Already I have my upgrade head on (see previous thread).
    >>Has anyone fitted V-brakes to their touring bike? What sort of results
    >>did you get? I find cantilevers a pain in the a**e to set up, and I
    >>reckon I deserve a decent set of brakes now I'm only to have one bike.
    >>The Dia-compe 287 lever is interesting, never seen a bike with one
    >>fitted - does anyone have a set? For that matter, does anyone have a
    >>set they want to part with?

    >
    >
    > V brakes are no less pain in the arse to set up - they are, after all,
    > just a slight variant on cantilevers.
    >
    >
    >>Also, what would you recommend for brakes?

    >
    >
    > Cane Creek Direct Curve - either DC2 or DC5. The advantage is no noodle.
    > Noodles are not merely a maintenance problem, they can allegedly[1] jump
    > out on rough sections and then you have no brakes.
    > <URL:http://www.canecreek.com/site/product/brakes/02_dc2.html>
    > <URL:http://www.canecreek.com/site/product/brakes/01_dc5.htm>
    >
    >>My only consideration is
    >>that I don't want the bike to look too flashy. Is there a reason why
    >>mountain bikes use them but tourers don't?

    >
    >
    > Fashion. The mountain bike market is much more fashion conscious than
    > the tourer market.
    >
    > [1] by which I mean, I know people who say it has happened to them, but
    > I have not seen it myself.
    >

    I disagree - they're far, far easier to setup than cantilevers with
    plain studs, and the geometry is fixed so they're also easier than
    cantis with threded studs.

    The only problem I can think of (besides the need for 287V levers) is
    mudguard clearance on some bikes. This was the main reason tourers had
    cantis in the first place, not really for extra stopping power - a
    sidepull can be just as powerful if it's designed with the same
    mechanical advantage (e.g. dual pivot brakes).
     
  5. Clive George

    Clive George Guest

    "Simon Brooke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > > My only consideration is
    > > that I don't want the bike to look too flashy. Is there a reason why
    > > mountain bikes use them but tourers don't?

    >
    > Fashion. The mountain bike market is much more fashion conscious than
    > the tourer market.


    Nope. It's cable pull.

    Normal/STI/Ergo drop bar levers don't pull enough cable for V brakes. Two
    solutions : dia-compe 287V levers (which do pull enough but you can't use
    STI/Ergo), or a travel adapter of some kind (pulley with two radii). Or
    stick with cantis.

    cheers,
    clive
     
  6. Peter B

    Peter B Guest

    "Zog The Undeniable" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > >Simon Brooke wrote:
    > > V brakes are no less pain in the arse to set up - they are, after all,
    > > just a slight variant on cantilevers.


    > I disagree - they're far, far easier to setup than cantilevers with
    > plain studs, and the geometry is fixed so they're also easier than
    > cantis with threded studs.


    I disagree too.
    My Avid vees were easier to set up than cantis IMO: Unhook the noddle and
    springs, fit new pads but leave loose, then push the arm/pad up to the rim,
    with a bit of card twixt pad and rim to set the toe-in, the pad finds its
    own position and can then be tightened. Easy!

    Pete.
     
  7. Triffid

    Triffid Guest

    Chris Davies pibbled:
    > Already I have my upgrade head on (see previous thread).
    > Has anyone fitted V-brakes to their touring bike? What sort of results did
    > you get? I find cantilevers a pain in the a**e to set up, and I reckon I
    > deserve a decent set of brakes now I'm only to have one bike.
    > The Dia-compe 287 lever is interesting, never seen a bike with one fitted
    > - does anyone have a set? For that matter, does anyone have a set they
    > want to part with?
    >
    > Also, what would you recommend for brakes? My only consideration is that I
    > don't want the bike to look too flashy. Is there a reason why mountain
    > bikes use them but tourers don't?
    >
    > Thanks for your help.
    >
    > Chris
    >


    Hey Chris - Fix that sig!!

    Anyhow, V brakes are if anything /harder/ to set up than cantilevers. Disc
    brakes are a toy unless hydraulics are involved. I used to own a cable-disc
    motorcycle, and cantilevers on the rim would been a boon! The only proper
    professional riders in this country have drum brakes, why aren't they
    commonly available?
     
  8. Clive George

    Clive George Guest

    "Triffid" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Anyhow, V brakes are if anything /harder/ to set up than cantilevers.

    Disc
    > brakes are a toy unless hydraulics are involved. I used to own a

    cable-disc
    > motorcycle, and cantilevers on the rim would been a boon!


    Avid mechanicals are getting a good reputation among tandem riders, which
    seems a pretty good recommendation for me.

    > The only proper professional riders in this country have drum brakes,
    > why aren't they commonly available?


    ?? (couriers?)

    cheers,
    clive

    (_hates_ setting up cantis. likes maguras)
     
  9. "Chris Davies" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Has anyone fitted V-brakes to their touring bike? What sort
    > of results did you get?


    I used to run V-brakes with 287V levers on a Raleigh Randonneur, and I was
    generally very happy with the results.

    As for the levers themselves, all the steel parts rusted very quickly. I
    replaced the plated clamps with stainless ones from an old pair of Shimano
    levers.

    Someone has a pair for sale on the Cycling+ forum:

    http://www.cyclingplus.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=34787

    James Thomson
     
  10. Jon Senior

    Jon Senior Guest

    Chris Davies [email protected] opined the following...
    > Already I have my upgrade head on (see previous thread).
    > Has anyone fitted V-brakes to their touring bike? What sort of results did
    > you get? I find cantilevers a pain in the a**e to set up, and I reckon I
    > deserve a decent set of brakes now I'm only to have one bike.
    > The Dia-compe 287 lever is interesting, never seen a bike with one fitted
    > - does anyone have a set? For that matter, does anyone have a set they
    > want to part with?
    >
    > Also, what would you recommend for brakes? My only consideration is that I
    > don't want the bike to look too flashy. Is there a reason why mountain
    > bikes use them but tourers don't?


    If you go for Vs, I would recommend stearing clear of the Tektro ones.
    Normally I like Tektro, but their Vs squeak for no obvious reason and
    don't seem to provide the stopping power of the (almost) equally cheap
    Sh*mano Deore ones I've just put on the back!

    Jon
     
  11. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    Chris Davies wrote:

    > Has anyone fitted V-brakes to their touring bike?


    Dawes, amongst others! (the Sardar has Vs as standard).

    > did you get? I find cantilevers a pain in the a**e to set up, and I
    > reckon I deserve a decent set of brakes now I'm only to have one bike.


    Vs can be a PITA as well. Well set up, performance shouldn't be that
    much different, poorly set up either can suck horrible. The primary
    advantage of Vs is that they're more widespread so it's easier to find
    new blocks, levers etc.

    > Also, what would you recommend for brakes? My only consideration is that
    > I don't want the bike to look too flashy. Is there a reason why mountain
    > bikes use them but tourers don't?


    Tourers use cantis because it's a deeply traditional market and tourers
    have had cantis for moons now. Occasionally someone makes something
    really raj like the Sardar which not only has Vs but it doesn't have
    700c wheels. And it isn't dark green! This is the stuff of serious
    change in the touring world... ;-)

    If you want really top line brakes put on Magura hydraulic rim brakes.
    They give more power, easier modulation and there's nothing much to
    fiddle with as the pads move directly in and out rather than rotating in
    on levers. You can set the clearance with a wheel on the lever housing
    as they wear, and when that bottoms out you change the pad. Initial set
    up is said to be fiddly, so I had mine done by someone else, but I've no
    regrets about having them put on. Easily the best rim brakes I've ever
    used.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  12. Clive George

    Clive George Guest

    "Peter Clinch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Tourers use cantis because it's a deeply traditional market and tourers
    > have had cantis for moons now.


    Nope - it's because V's aren't easily compatible with drop bar levers.

    cheers,
    clive
     
  13. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    Clive George wrote:

    > Nope - it's because V's aren't easily compatible with drop bar levers.


    Dawes Sardar has them, so it's not a Huge Problem for Dawes, but the
    Horizon, Galaxy, Super and Ultra G have cantis. They can have Vs, but
    only the "radical" 26" wheel Sardar does.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  14. On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:15:30 +0100, Clive George
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Peter Clinch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> Clive George wrote:
    >>
    >> > Nope - it's because V's aren't easily compatible with drop bar levers.

    >>
    >> Dawes Sardar has them, so it's not a Huge Problem for Dawes, but the
    >> Horizon, Galaxy, Super and Ultra G have cantis. They can have Vs, but
    >> only the "radical" 26" wheel Sardar does.

    >
    > All the others have STI levers, which precludes using Vs without a travel
    > adapter.


    Mini-vees can be used with STI levers.

    Colin
     
  15. Clive George

    Clive George Guest

    "Peter Clinch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Clive George wrote:
    >
    > > Nope - it's because V's aren't easily compatible with drop bar levers.

    >
    > Dawes Sardar has them, so it's not a Huge Problem for Dawes, but the
    > Horizon, Galaxy, Super and Ultra G have cantis. They can have Vs, but
    > only the "radical" 26" wheel Sardar does.


    All the others have STI levers, which precludes using Vs without a travel
    adapter. The sardar has 287-V levers.

    cheers,
    clive
     
  16. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    Clive George wrote:

    > All the others have STI levers, which precludes using Vs without a travel
    > adapter. The sardar has 287-V levers.


    Just found out the STI version of the Sardar (no longer available) had
    Cantis. I thought they all had Vs, so wrong there.

    OTOH, V's have been around longer than Galaxies and Horizons have had
    STI fitted as standard. The tourer market really is /very/
    conservative, to the extent that having 26" wheels is still widely held
    to be remarkable (even though it actually makes a great deal of sense).

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  17. Clive George

    Clive George Guest

    "Colin Blackburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:eek:[email protected]
    > On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:15:30 +0100, Clive George
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "Peter Clinch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > >> Clive George wrote:
    > >>
    > >> > Nope - it's because V's aren't easily compatible with drop bar

    levers.
    > >>
    > >> Dawes Sardar has them, so it's not a Huge Problem for Dawes, but the
    > >> Horizon, Galaxy, Super and Ultra G have cantis. They can have Vs, but
    > >> only the "radical" 26" wheel Sardar does.

    > >
    > > All the others have STI levers, which precludes using Vs without a

    travel
    > > adapter.

    >
    > Mini-vees can be used with STI levers.


    And _how_ much mudguard/tyre clearance do they have? :)

    cheers,
    clive
     
  18. Clive George

    Clive George Guest

    "Peter Clinch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Clive George wrote:
    >
    > > All the others have STI levers, which precludes using Vs without a

    travel
    > > adapter. The sardar has 287-V levers.

    >
    > Just found out the STI version of the Sardar (no longer available) had
    > Cantis. I thought they all had Vs, so wrong there.
    >
    > OTOH, V's have been around longer than Galaxies and Horizons have had
    > STI fitted as standard.


    OTOOH, 287-V levers haven't been around as long as V brakes. OTOOOH they've
    been around long enough. Of course it could be just a price thing - 287-Vs
    aren't that cheap.

    cheers,
    clive
     
  19. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    Clive George wrote:

    > OTOOH, 287-V levers haven't been around as long as V brakes. OTOOOH they've
    > been around long enough. Of course it could be just a price thing - 287-Vs
    > aren't that cheap.


    Though OTO.... foot, the Sardar is cheaper than the Galaxy and its more
    upmarket stablemates.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  20. Chris Davies

    Chris Davies Guest

    On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:58:33 +0100, Peter Clinch <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    > Clive George wrote:
    >
    >> OTOOH, 287-V levers haven't been around as long as V brakes. OTOOOH
    >> they've
    >> been around long enough. Of course it could be just a price thing -
    >> 287-Vs
    >> aren't that cheap.

    >
    > Though OTO.... foot, the Sardar is cheaper than the Galaxy and its more
    > upmarket stablemates.
    >
    > Pete.

    It's also made of 631 tubing, the replacement for 531. I believe 531 is
    now obsolete.
    Do you think there's an economy in that they can use more mountain bike
    componentry?
    Also, is it tig welded or lugged? This will make a difference to price.
    It seems like a very good bike for the money, although I've never been on
    one and suspect you could recycle some old mountain bikes into something
    very similar for much less money.


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