Brakeshoes - toe in

[Per ElmsäTer]

I just replaced my old ProMax brakes with XT front and rear brakes. Very nice but I'm having a hard
time setting the brakepads just a little bit toe-in so as to avoid the loud screaming from the pads.
The rear pads seemed to do OK, but I'm having problems with the front. I tried putting a credit card
between the brakepad and the rim etc when tightening. Any other tips?

--
Perre

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[Richard Ney]

Per Elmsäter writes:

> I just replaced my old ProMax brakes with XT front and rear brakes. Very nice but I'm having a
> hard time setting the brakepads just a little bit toe-in so as to avoid the loud screaming from
> the pads. The rear pads seemed to do OK, but I'm having problems with the front. I tried putting a
> credit card between the brakepad and the rim etc when tightening. Any other tips?

Yes. Don't bend the brake arms to toe-in the pads!

Instead, sand down the leading edge (rear) of the pad so that the trailing edge contacts the rim
first. This is easily accomplished by laying 225 grit sandpaper on a flat surface and rubbing the
pad back and forth over it, angling it slightly so that the leading edge gets worn the most,
10-15 times.

 

[Jobst Brandt]

Per Elmsäter writes:

> I just replaced my old ProMax brakes with XT front and rear brakes. Very nice but I'm having a
> hard time setting the brakepads just a little bit toe-in so as to avoid the loud screaming from
> the pads. The rear pads seemed to do OK, but I'm having problems with the front.

Leave your brake pads installed as you have them snd ride through a mud puddle slowly with the brake
applied to let the rim scrub the pad free of its sticky (squeaky) mold skin. A little bit of grit
and water goes a long way to make brakes run silently.

Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

[email protected] wrote:
> Per Elmsäter writes:
>
>> I just replaced my old ProMax brakes with XT front and rear brakes. Very nice but I'm having a
>> hard time setting the brakepads just a little bit toe-in so as to avoid the loud screaming from
>> the pads. The rear pads seemed to do OK, but I'm having problems with the front.
>
> Leave your brake pads installed as you have them snd ride through a mud puddle slowly with the
> brake applied to let the rim scrub the pad free of its sticky (squeaky) mold skin. A little bit of
> grit and water goes a long way to make brakes run silently.
>
> Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA

Now that sounds like the true way to do it. Somehow I must have managed to do it backwards though. I
had the pads toed in this morning so they were quiet but after 20 or 30 km they started squeaking
again. When I came back home after 100 km they were worse than ever ;( Very muddy and lots of
melting snow on the roads today.
--
Perre

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[Jobst Brandt]

Per Elmsäter writes:

>>> I just replaced my old ProMax brakes with XT front and rear brakes. Very nice but I'm having a
>>> hard time setting the brakepads just a little bit toe-in so as to avoid the loud screaming from
>>> the pads. The rear pads seemed to do OK, but I'm having problems with the front.

>> Leave your brake pads installed as you have them snd ride through a mud puddle slowly with the
>> brake applied to let the rim scrub the pad free of its sticky (squeaky) mold skin. A little bit
>> of grit and water goes a long way to make brakes run silently.

> Now that sounds like the true way to do it. Somehow I must have managed to do it backwards though.
> I had the pads toed in this morning so they were quiet but after 20 or 30 km they started
> squeaking again. When I came back home after 100 km they were worse than ever ;(

I can only imagine that you are using the ill begotten asymmetric pads that are designed to not
naturally toe-in because their center of pressure is in the center of the pad. Regular equilateral
pads naturally wear into a toe in condition because they tend to rotate forward when applied and
wear in that condition.

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8f.16.html

> Very muddy and lots of melting snow on the roads today.

What sort of pads are you using?

Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA

 

[James Thomson]

"Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I just replaced my old ProMax brakes with XT front and rear brakes. Very nice but I'm having a
> hard time setting the brakepads just a little bit toe-in so as to avoid the loud screaming from
> the pads. The rear pads seemed to do OK, but I'm having problems with the front.

If you search for 'XT brakes squeal' in deja.com, you'll find that noise is a perennial problem with
these brakes - you may be saddled with it. Shim kits were available to take slop out of the pivots
of the older models. No adjustment or change of pads would cure the squeal on the front end of my
Raleigh tourer: I ended up reverting to cheap SRAM brakes without the parallelogram geometry.

If you're having trouble setting toe-in (which may not cure the problem), are you sure that the
hemispherical washers on the brake pad posts are arranged correctly?

James Thomson

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I can only imagine that you are using the ill begotten asymmetric pads that are designed to not
> naturally toe-in because their center of pressure is in the center of the pad. Regular equilateral
> pads naturally wear into a toe in condition because they tend to rotate forward when applied and
> wear in that condition.
>
> http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8f.16.html
>
>
> What sort of pads are you using?
>

You're probably right on your assumption. I'm not sure what kind of pads is on there. I only know
it's the standard out of the box pads that come with a complete new setup of XT brakes, since I
changed everything. The pads are the kind that are locked in place with a pin and can be slid out
when exchanged for new ones without having to reset the pads.

--
Perre

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[Per ElmsäTer]

"James Thomson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If you search for 'XT brakes squeal' in deja.com, you'll find that noise
is
> a perennial problem with these brakes - you may be saddled with it. Shim kits were available to
> take slop out of the pivots of the older models. No adjustment or change of pads would cure the
> squeal on the front end of my Raleigh tourer: I ended up reverting to cheap SRAM brakes without
> the parallelogram geometry.
>
> If you're having trouble setting toe-in (which may not cure the problem), are you sure that the
> hemispherical washers on the brake pad posts are arranged correctly?
>

Seems to be more on this issue than I figured at first. I will do some searches like you suggest.
I'm sure I've got the washers arranged correctly. My problem is not getting a toe-in adjustment. It
is more of the nature of getting just enough. Not too much and not too little

--
Perre

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[Jamie]

Dude good luck .I had the same problem with my xt brake's I fixed it by going to Advids ? the front
xt brake always squealed .Some days real bad.Tried different pads toes in's but just gave up .It
really sucked cause it was only the front the back no noise.Well thought id send a line of advice to
back up the other guy.

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

Jamie wrote:
> Dude good luck .I had the same problem with my xt brake's I fixed it by going to Advids ? the
> front xt brake always squealed .Some days real bad.Tried different pads toes in's but just gave up
> .It really sucked cause it was only the front the back no noise.Well thought id send a line of
> advice to back up the other guy.

Yes I did a google search and ended up with a lot of information pretty much like what you say. Most
people not being able to fix it and a lot going over to Advid, just like you. However some of them
did fix it so I haven't given up yet

--
Perre

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[Matt O'Toole]

Per Elmsäter wrote:

> <[email protected]> wrote in message

>> What sort of pads are you using?

> You're probably right on your assumption. I'm not sure what kind of pads is on there. I only know
> it's the standard out of the box pads that come with a complete new setup of XT brakes, since I
> changed everything. The pads are the kind that are locked in place with a pin and can be slid out
> when exchanged for new ones without having to reset the pads.

Shimano pads are terrible. They don't stop well, and they eat your rims. However, other companies
make replacements that fit in Shimano holders, so all you have to do is slip them in. Koolstop are
the ones to look for. The salmon colored (not red!) ones are the best, but the black ones are pretty
good too. I think Sheldon Brown sells 'em.

Matt O.

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

"Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Per Elmsäter wrote:
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >> What sort of pads are you using?
>
> > You're probably right on your assumption. I'm not sure what kind of pads is on there. I only
> > know it's the standard out of the box pads that come with a complete new setup of XT brakes,
> > since I changed everything. The pads are the kind that are locked in place with a pin and can
> > be slid
out
> > when exchanged for new ones without having to reset the pads.
>
> Shimano pads are terrible. They don't stop well, and they eat your rims. However, other companies
> make replacements that fit in Shimano holders, so all you have to do is slip them in. Koolstop are
> the ones to look for. The salmon colored (not red!) ones are the best, but the black ones are
> pretty good too. I think Sheldon Brown sells 'em.
>

Rim eating doesn't sound very good. I've got really neat Rolf Vector hybrid wheels and I sure like
to keep them as long as I can. Today I moved the pads downwards as close as possible towards the
center of the wheel. This took away some of the squeaking but not all. Will look into Koolstops or
whatever I can find around here unless braking through mudpuddles will fix this. People give me
funny looks as I work myself through every puddle with the brakes engaged

--
Perre

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[Matt O'Toole]

Per Elmsäter wrote:

> <[email protected]> wrote in message

>> What sort of pads are you using?

> You're probably right on your assumption. I'm not sure what kind of pads is on there. I only know
> it's the standard out of the box pads that come with a complete new setup of XT brakes, since I
> changed everything. The pads are the kind that are locked in place with a pin and can be slid out
> when exchanged for new ones without having to reset the pads.

Shimano pads are terrible. They don't stop well, and they eat your rims. However, other companies
make replacements that fit in Shimano holders, so all you have to do is slip them in. Koolstop are
the ones to look for. The salmon colored (not red!) ones are the best, but the black ones are pretty
good too. I think Sheldon Brown sells 'em.

Matt O.