Bravo Tyler!

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by sappie66, May 19, 2011.

  1. sappie66

    sappie66 New Member

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    Well, even though it is late, it is better than never. Tyler Hamilton comes clean and tells the truth. And finally, some direct evidence, as opposed to circumstantial. I don't think Landis ever came out and said "I saw Lance inject himself with EPO."
     
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  2. pearl-drum-man

    pearl-drum-man New Member

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    I don't doubt the content of his claim, but IMO after seeing an excerpt of him making these claims on 60 Minutes though he doesn't look very convincing.
     
  3. Jim Moore

    Jim Moore Member

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    They're all effing liars. Tough to tell which one squeezes the most nuggets of truth into his lies. I still bet on Lance.
     
  4. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    So Tyler has a book coming out soon, aye? Very coincidental timing don't ya think? A rider who's been used to the $'s that came from riding at such a high level spends a couple of years without income and now finds himself in a position where he needs the cash. Two positives and a current 8 year ban, more than a slight implication in Operation Puerto, financial records showing over $50,000 spent on doping and the Olympic gold medal debacle (B sample could not be tested to validate A sample positive test). An upstanding individual whose everyword should be believed.

    Well... since you started this thread I think it's only fair that the "I don't think" on your part should be corrected. Landis came out with nuggets such as these in his Wall Street Journal interview....

    "in St. Moritz, Mr. Landis said, he went to a penthouse where Mr. Armstrong was living with his wife, Kristin, and his three children. While he was sitting at the kitchen table drinking espresso with Mr. Armstrong and his wife, Mr. Landis said, Mr. Armstrong handed him roughly 20 testosterone patches in silvery foil."

    "For the 2003 cycling season, Mr. Landis and many other American riders had rented apartments in Girona, Spain. Mr. Landis said blood that had been extracted from him, Mr. Armstrong and their teammate Mr. Hincapie was being stored in a refrigerator in the closet of Mr. Armstrong's Girona apartment. Before Mr. Armstrong left town, Mr. Landis said, he asked Mr. Landis to stay in the apartment and to monitor a digital thermometer to make sure the blood stayed at the optimal temperature just above freezing—around two degrees Celsius."

    "The transfusions in the hotel room near Saint-Léonard-de-Noblat weren't the only occasion during the 2004 Tour when some team members transfused blood, Mr. Landis said. The second time, he said, was an even stranger scene. After one day's stage, the team bus stopped on a remote alpine road. The driver opened the back of the bus to make it appear as though something was wrong, and set about pretending to fix it.

    The bus had long benches on each side, and a couple of riders lay down on each one, Mr. Landis said. The doctors hooked them up, taping their blood bags to the sides of the bus, he said. Mr. Armstrong took his transfusion lying on the bus floor, he said. Mr. Landis said the process took about an hour."

    .... need anything else as direct?

    I can just see new clients arriving by the bus load to sign up for Tyler Hamilton Training...
     
  5. sappie66

    sappie66 New Member

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    Thanks Swampy. I stand corrected as Landis had direct evidence in that he saw Lance himself take transfusions. The rest of what you say remains circumstantial to the question of whether or not Lance himself doped.

    So you raise the real possibility that Tyler is doing all of this for his own gain. This may or may not be part of Tyler's equation, however, it does not make Tyler a liar this time around (obviously he was lying before when he was vigorously defending himself). You seem to forget that Armstrong obviously has a huge interest in maintaining his innocence. In other words, both of them have reason to lie -- not just Tyler.

    When you take Tyler's evidence, along with that of Landis, the Andreus, Steven Swart, Emma O'Reilly, along with all of the other circumstantial evidence against Armstrong, it might be hard to keep your money on Lance. Lance did preside over what was arguably cycling's dirtiest time -- most of his main rivals were found to have doped, as were many of Lance's teammates.

    The Andreus, Swart and O'Reilly had little or nothing to gain by lying. Andreu, as all others who opposed Armstrong (including Greg Lemond -- if you think Armstrong had nothing to do with Trek's lawsuit against Lemond....), was made to suffer for it.

    Let's not forget one other motivation for Tyler Hamilton. He came clean when testifying before the grand jury. He knew that in Balco, Marion Jones and co. were not done for actual doping. They were done for lying to a grand jury and sentenced for that. I would say that would be motivating to tell the truth.
     
  6. sappie66

    sappie66 New Member

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    Thanks Swampy. I stand corrected as Landis had direct evidence in that he saw Lance himself take transfusions. The rest of what you say remains circumstantial to the question of whether or not Lance himself doped.

    So you raise the real possibility that Tyler is doing all of this for his own gain. This may or may not be part of Tyler's equation, however, it does not make Tyler a liar this time around (obviously he was lying before when he was vigorously defending himself). You seem to forget that Armstrong obviously has a huge interest in maintaining his innocence. In other words, both of them have reason to lie -- not just Tyler.

    When you take Tyler's evidence, along with that of Landis, the Andreus, Steven Swart, Emma O'Reilly, along with all of the other circumstantial evidence against Armstrong, it might be hard to keep your money on Lance. Lance did preside over what was arguably cycling's dirtiest time -- most of his main rivals were found to have doped, as were many of Lance's teammates and former teammates.

    The Andreus, Swart and O'Reilly had little or nothing to gain by lying. Andreu, as all others who opposed Armstrong (including Greg Lemond -- if you think Armstrong had nothing to do with Trek's lawsuit against Lemond....), was made to suffer for it.

    Let's not forget one other motivation for Tyler Hamilton. He came clean when testifying before the grand jury. He knew that in Balco, Marion Jones and co. were not done for actual doping. They were done for lying to a grand jury and sentenced for that. I would say that would be motivating to tell the truth.
     
  7. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    So you think he's not in it for the publicity and he's doing it for the good of the sport, out of the kindness of his own heart?

    Why do you think that he waited until the Amgen Tour of California was on to drop this rather than go on TV when everyone is out pulling 5 hour rides in the rain during November?

    Amgen Tour + " I saw Lance take drugs" = great publicity for new book.

    You might see him as a Mr Saviour Pt2, I see him as a proven liar and cheat who needs the money - just like Landis. I'd guy the guy the same amount of time as the guy that tried to steal my car a few years ago...

    Mr Chimera couldn't go out gracefully could he...
    ... and really, do you trust anyone who blames their own positive for blood doping on a chimera? Really?
     
  8. sappie66

    sappie66 New Member

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    Hey swamp,

    I didn't say that. Perhaps that does enter into it for Tyler. I am merely saying that if he has other motivations, it does not mean that he is lying. I agree that Tyler has proven that he has lied. So has Landis. Doesn't mean they are lying now.

    Did you think Emma O'Reilly, Steven Swart and Frankie Andreu had anything to gain? Did they, in fact, gain anything? Have they written books?

    Is Tyler coming out with a book? Has he said so? Now don't get me wrong here -- just asking. It could be that he will. I just haven't heard it except from you.

    Has your faith in Lance been shaken at all? Do you believe him unquestioningly?

     
  9. sappie66

    sappie66 New Member

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    Hey pearldrum,

    I know what you mean. I would descrive his demeanor as pensive rather than evasive. But to each their own.
     
  10. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    What's Hincapie's excuse? Or is he too on the L'Equipe payroll with David Walsh, Floyd Landis, Tyler Hamilton, Karen O'Reilly, Filippo Simeoni, Frankie Andreu, Dick Pound, all the laboratory
    staff at Chatanay-Malabry................?
    /img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif
     
  11. davereo

    davereo Well-Known Member

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    Hincapie is not blabbing away to the media. If he is called to testify he will be a credible witness. I believe with Landis and Hamilton a lot of holes will be poked into their testimony. A gag order should be in place to protect the integrity of the witness and testimony. This case is being tried in the court of public opinion. Which could influence the pool of potential jurors.

    It's not looking too good for Lance. The truth will eventually come out and I am begining to believe it wont be pretty.

    Personally I was against this grand jury investigation to begin with. I thought it was a waste of tax payers money. At least now I am convinced we should plow on and reveal the fraud.
     
  12. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    It is amazing how the civil authorities in various countries appear to be able to get to the truth of the matter of cheating - and yet we're still stuck with fuckwits like Pat McQuaid making excuses/evading questions/providing bullshit answers.

    I commend the FBI, the French police and the Spanish police for getting answers to the questions which the likes of WADA raised but which the UCI did nothing about.
     
  13. Bro Deal

    Bro Deal New Member

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    It has been a long time coming. On Sunday CBS will report that George Hincapie testified to the grand jury that both he and Armstrong used EPO. Let's see Armstrong trash Hincapie like he has everyone else who has spoken the truth. Other teammates are also coming forward. Scott Mercier says that U.S. Postal's doctor gave him steroids and a training schedule for their use. The big question is whether Vaughters will have the cojones go public instead of just using his supposed anti-dope stance for free publicity.

    It is a great day.

    All the fanboys can suck it.
     
  14. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    hamilton has returned his Olympic Gold Medal

    http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/oth...297453237.html


    Cycling : American cyclist Tyler Hamilton has surrendered his 2004 Olympic gold medal after confessing to doping, the US Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) said on Friday.
    "I can confirm that Tyler Hamilton has given his gold medal from the 2004 Athens Olympic Games to USADA and that we will continue to work with the IOC and the USOC as appropriate concerning the final implications of our overall investigation," USADA chief executive Travis Tygart said in a statement.
    The International Olympic Committee (IOC) earlier on Friday said it also was studying the issue.
    "The IOC has taken note of Hamilton's confession and will of course study any potential Games-related implications," it said.
    Hamilton won cycling's time-trial at the Athens Olympics and was allowed to keep his medal after testing positive for blood doping because the laboratory accidently destroyed his B sample by deep freezing it.
    In an interview to be aired by the television program "60 Minutes" on Sunday, Hamilton ended years of denials by admitting to using performance-enhancing drugs, but said he was not alone.
    The 40-year-old said he witnessed former team mate Lance Armstrong inject himself with a blood-booster during the 1999 Tour de France, which Armstrong won.
    Armstrong, who won the Tour de France seven times, has always denied taking banned substances but has repeatedly had to fend off accusations despite having never failed a drugs test.
    His lawyer Mark Fabiani told Reuters on Thursday that Hamilton's accusations about Armstrong were untrue.
    Tygart said USADA was continuing its ongoing investigation in cycling.
    "Where there is credible evidence of doping, a fair and thorough process exists for resolving such violations," he said. "We do not comment on the substance of an active investigation, but as always we remain committed to protecting the rights of clean athletes and preserving the integrity of sport."
    The US Olympic Committee referred all queries to USADA
     
  15. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    This a good day.

    Yes, the likes of yourself and Whiteboy and all the other posters who were accused of all sorts by the chamois sniffers have been shown to be correct all along.
     
  16. hpearson

    hpearson Banned

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    Tyler is bottom feeding white trash. I could give a shit about the doping, cheating, lying with conviction and confession. YOU DON'T RAT OUT YOUR FRIENDS to save your own skin and certainly not for profit and certainly not on TV.

    Having said that they need to put LA on suicide watch. What the hell do you tell your 12 year old son.
     
  17. hpearson

    hpearson Banned

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    Oh and right on about UCI and WADA. What a bunch of assholes. This in 110% their fault. Had they done there job you still might have a 7 time LA winner, but clean. By not enforcing it they agreed it was OK and therefore as far as I am concerned it is just part of the sport then and no rider is guilty. I say let them all of the hook and indict the incompetent assholes at WADA and the UCI.

    Lance didnt cheat! What is going to get him is the emphatic, defiant and arrogant lying.
     
  18. sappie66

    sappie66 New Member

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    Wow....... and is George Hincapie "bottom feeding white trash" also?
    The only thing you take issue with is the concept of "friends ratting out friends"?
    You are saying that it wasn't LA's fault that he wasn't clean, and then you say he "didn't cheat".
    You think WADA and UCI take the same position regarding LA? UCI has been consistently on LA's side, WADA is definitely not.

    Sorry, I guess I need not respond to this.... there is so much more, but I will refrain.

    What do I tell my 12-year-old son? Don't have one. I tell my 11-year-old son that there are people out there who cheat and cheating is bad. I also tell him that I think LA is a cheat and why I think that (but only if he asks). He can make his own decision on potential heroes.

    Seems you would tell your 12-year-old son that cheating is okay because everyone does it? I hope that is not the case.
     
  19. slovakguy

    slovakguy Active Member

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bro Deal .
    It has been a long time coming. On Sunday CBS will report that George Hincapie testified to the grand jury that both he and Armstrong used EPO. Let's see Armstrong trash Hincapie like he has everyone else who has spoken the truth. Other teammates are also coming forward. Scott Mercier says that U.S. Postal's doctor gave him steroids and a training schedule for their use. The big question is whether Vaughters will have the cojones go public instead of just using his supposed anti-dope stance for free publicity.
    It is a great day.
    All the fanboys can suck it.

    having vaughters step forward with and state what he knows would be wonderful, but i don't think he has the stones. he's much too comfortable playing his "read between the lines" game and side stepping the issue. perhaps, should the reports about hincapie's testimony be true, he will find the courage to finally stand up to armstrong, mcquaid, and verbruggen.
     
  20. dhk2

    dhk2 Active Member

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    Consider also telling your son that sometimes even good people get caught up in doing things they know they shouldn't; that everyone makes mistakes and does things they might regret later. He could learn how some "little" compromises, easily made in the heat of the moment, can change everything down the road. I'd want him to learn that most of the time secrets will come out, that it takes real courage to stand up and confess some things, but that if we do most of the time we will be respected for our honesty and maybe even forgiven. But even if we're not, it's better that way then when someone else exposes us.

    I'd want him to know that the important thing is standing up to the truth, admitting our mistakes, and accepting the consequences of our actions. I'd want him to learn that the really important things in his life aren't how many medals he wins, or how much money he makes, that honesty and character are the most valuable things he will ever own.
     
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