Bravo Tyler!



Well first off I was referring to what does LA tell HIS 12 year old son, implying what will be the legacy he has left his family.

As far as HIncapie is concerned he didn't go on 60 Minutes during the largest race in the U.S. with a book deal pending and rat out a friend. In fact he said he would not make a public statement and now we find out on twitter he never said any of it. If Tyler goes on 60 mins and says "Yeah, I doped and lied and I am sorry." Then Bravo! Tyler would not even be on 60 minutesunless he was ratting out an old friend who is famous. No one gives a **** about Tyler. He has a life time ban handed out years ago, it is over. He is now officiallly pathetic.

As far as I am concerned none of the riders cheated. UCI and WADA are such a joke. Remember that Lance's first tour victory was right on the heals of WADA and UCI saying that after the drug scandals of the 90s the sport was clean due to their exhaustive testing. RIght! 100% were still juicing! What a bunch of assholes. I defend all the riders including LA. At one point they were all young incredibly competitive, talented spirits under the guidance of men that should have known better meaning the directir sportifs, etc. Hell yeah I'll defend Lance: adandoned by father, bad male examples in his life as a child, no christian teaching, poor, single mom, unbelievable talent, tour icons telling him he has to juice, everyone is juicing, your winning and making millions no way to be competitive with out doping, ..... unplug LA from that story and plug in the next rider's name and the story is pretty much the same. **** make me 17 and give me any three of the above and I would be injecting. If you read the artical in Bicycling magazine you know that they were juicing in the 50's and laughing about it in post race interviews.

Yeah Yeah I know at some point you have to be accountable for your actions. Well let me ask you this, at what point would you have come clean?

Wasted dollars, political agendas, singling out one individual and I guarantee there will be no conviction. It is a waste of time and money and some other FBI asshole is wrapping it in a cloak of morality. Nowitski would have been doping with a fire hose up his ass if he had one tenth the talent LA or other member of the peloton. You would of too.

I think Lance doped I just don't hold him in contempt for it nor do I any other rider. Tyler ratted out a friend, exactly what was the reason for that! To help the sport. Right!

Let me ask you this, why hold Lance in contempt and no other rider. They were all prolific liars LA has significantly more pressure on him with the hopes of the cancer patience all over the world. No saying it is right but I see my self doing the same damn thing.
 
Originally Posted by dhk2 .




Consider also telling your son that sometimes even good people get caught up in doing things they know they shouldn't; that everyone makes mistakes and does things they might regret later. He could learn how some "little" compromises, easily made in the heat of the moment, can change everything down the road. I'd want him to learn that most of the time secrets will come out, that it takes real courage to stand up and confess some things, but that if we do most of the time we will be respected for our honesty and maybe even forgiven. But even if we're not, it's better that way then when someone else exposes us.

I'd want him to know that the important thing is standing up to the truth, admitting our mistakes, and accepting the consequences of our actions. I'd want him to learn that the really important things in his life aren't how many medals he wins, or how much money he makes, that honesty and character are the most valuable things he will ever own.

I would agree. Didn't feel like writing down all of that though. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
 
Originally Posted by hpearson .

Well first off I was referring to what does LA tell HIS 12 year old son, implying what will be the legacy he has left his family.

As far as HIncapie is concerned he didn't go on 60 Minutes during the largest race in the U.S. with a book deal pending and rat out a friend. In fact he said he would not make a public statement and now we find out on twitter he never said any of it. If Tyler goes on 60 mins and says "Yeah, I doped and lied and I am sorry." Then Bravo! Tyler would not even be on 60 minutesunless he was ratting out an old friend who is famous. No one gives a **** about Tyler. He has a life time ban handed out years ago, it is over. He is now officiallly pathetic.

As far as I am concerned none of the riders cheated. UCI and WADA are such a joke. Remember that Lance's first tour victory was right on the heals of WADA and UCI saying that after the drug scandals of the 90s the sport was clean due to their exhaustive testing. RIght! 100% were still juicing! What a bunch of assholes. I defend all the riders including LA. At one point they were all young incredibly competitive, talented spirits under the guidance of men that should have known better meaning the directir sportifs, etc. Hell yeah I'll defend Lance: adandoned by father, bad male examples in his life as a child, no christian teaching, poor, single mom, unbelievable talent, tour icons telling him he has to juice, everyone is juicing, your winning and making millions no way to be competitive with out doping, ..... unplug LA from that story and plug in the next rider's name and the story is pretty much the same. **** make me 17 and give me any three of the above and I would be injecting. If you read the artical in Bicycling magazine you know that they were juicing in the 50's and laughing about it in post race interviews.

Yeah Yeah I know at some point you have to be accountable for your actions. Well let me ask you this, at what point would you have come clean?

Wasted dollars, political agendas, singling out one individual and I guarantee there will be no conviction. It is a waste of time and money and some other FBI asshole is wrapping it in a cloak of morality. Nowitski would have been doping with a fire hose up his ass if he had one tenth the talent LA or other member of the peloton. You would of too.

I think Lance doped I just don't hold him in contempt for it nor do I any other rider. Tyler ratted out a friend, exactly what was the reason for that! To help the sport. Right!

Let me ask you this, why hold Lance in contempt and no other rider. They were all prolific liars LA has significantly more pressure on him with the hopes of the cancer patience all over the world. No saying it is right but I see my self doing the same damn thing.
GH twittered that he didn't say it? Or was it that he didn't talk to 60 Minutes? He did not deny the statements attributed to him, did he? One would think that he would have an interest in disavowing such statements if they were not true. Especially because we all know how LA deals with those who are against him.

Okay, you have compassion and understanding for riders who dope because they were told to do so, and could not hope to compete without doing so. I get that. However, why did he aggressively shut down all those who tried to change the sport for the better? Why did he not support Christophe Bassons when he spoke out against doping? Hell, he could have said nothing, but he actually went out of his way to intimidate Bassons and greatly contributed to his early retirement from the sport. Why has he continually denied that the sport had a problem? Why does he resort to smear campaigns, character assassination, threats, blackmail and intimidation in dealing with his detractors?
 
Uh-oh. Hamilton confirmed that Armstrong tested positive for EPO at the 2001 Tour de Suisse. CBS has an affidavit from the Swiss lab director and the letter sent to the USADA. Not only was the positive covered up, but the lab instructed the team about testing so that future positives could be avoided. McQuaid gonna have some explainin' to do this week. I wonder at what point he will toss Verbruggen under the bus.
The bombshell is that Hamilton says that Armstrong sent him EPO through FedEx. That is drug trafficking. It must have been arranged via phone or e-mail. That's wire fraud. Communications were often done with special cell phones kept for the express purpose of handling the team's doping. That sounds like they were engaged in a conspiracy and took steps to conceal it. Does anyone know if sending drugs through FedEx instead of the U.S. postal service counts as mail fraud? Looks like FLandis was right when he said, "Big Tex is going to jail."
 
Originally Posted by Bro Deal .

Uh-oh. Hamilton confirmed that Armstrong tested positive for EPO at the 2001 Tour de Suisse. CBS has an affidavit from the Swiss lab director and the letter sent to the USADA. Not only was the positive covered up, but the lab instructed the team about testing so that future positives could be avoided. McQuaid gonna have some explainin' to do this week. I wonder at what point he will toss Verbruggen under the bus.


The bombshell is that Hamilton says that Armstrong sent him EPO through FedEx. That is drug trafficking. It must have been arranged via phone or e-mail. That's wire fraud. Communications were often done with special cell phones kept for the express purpose of handling the team's doping. That sounds like they were engaged in a conspiracy and took steps to conceal it. Does anyone know if sending drugs through FedEx instead of the U.S. postal service counts as mail fraud? Looks like FLandis was right when he said, "Big Tex is going to jail."
I presume you saw the interview on TV, BD?

Shocking stuff. Positive test results and an affidavit to verify that claim. I wonder is this admissible in a US court of law? And the USADA didn't disclose the positive result either?
***********.

And Armstrong sending EPO via FedEx?
 
limerickman said:
I presume you saw the interview on TV, BD? Shocking stuff. Positive test results and an affidavit to verify that claim. I wonder is this admissible in a US court of law? And the USADA didn't disclose the positive result either? ***********. And Armstrong sending EPO via FedEx?
The Hamilton interview was certainly the centerpiece of the program, but there was a lot of information packed into the program. It is clear that CBS spent a lot of time investigating. There were lots of little pieces of information that will take time to assimilate. Because of the wording used in places it was hard to know exactly what was meant in some places.
Anyway, a lot of stuff was confirmed. Blood extractions being done in Valencia. Armstrong spraying some sort of testosterone into the mouths of teammates. Drugs being administered with drops to the eyeballs. Corticosteroids being used for time trials. Team management encouraged doping. Team doctors administered doping products. Armstrong continued to pay large sums of money to Dr. Ferrari up to 2010. The best team riders were given white bags, "lunch bags," containing doping products. The team used code words for different drugs. Blood transfusions were used in the 2000 TdF (one or two years earlier than I suspected they were used.) Hamilton has a partial immunity deal with the prosecutors. When Hamilton needed EPO, Armstrong sent some to him through Federal Express. Bruyneel or Armstrong met with the director of the Swiss lab, a meeting arranged by the UCI, and the TdS test disappeared. I assume the affidavit comes from the federal investigation, but that is not clear. The program was packed.
There is video available on the web. I'll try to find a link.
 
Originally Posted by Bro Deal .



Quote: Originally Posted by limerickman
I presume you saw the interview on TV, BD?

Shocking stuff. Positive test results and an affidavit to verify that claim. I wonder is this admissible in a US court of law? And the USADA didn't disclose the positive result either?
***********.

And Armstrong sending EPO via FedEx?


The Hamilton interview was certainly the centerpiece of the program, but there was a lot of information packed into the program. It is clear that CBS spent a lot of time investigating. There were lots of little pieces of information that will take time to assimilate. Because of the wording used in places it was hard to know exactly what was meant in some places.


Anyway, a lot of stuff was confirmed. Blood extractions being done in Valencia. Armstrong spraying some sort of testosterone into the mouths of teammates. Drugs being administered with drops to the eyeballs. Corticosteroids being used for time trials. Team management encouraged doping. Team doctors administered doping products. Armstrong continued to pay large sums of money to Dr. Ferrari up to 2010. The best team riders were given white bags, "lunch bags," containing doping products. The team used code words for different drugs. Blood transfusions were used in the 2000 TdF (one or two years earlier than I suspected they were used.) Hamilton has a partial immunity deal with the prosecutors. When Hamilton needed EPO, Armstrong sent some to him through Federal Express. Bruyneel or Armstrong met with the director of the Swiss lab, a meeting arranged by the UCI, and the TdS test disappeared. I assume the affidavit comes from the federal investigation, but that is not clear. The program was packed.


There is video available on the web. I'll try to find a link.


BD : I've posted the CBS link and I'm watching it now.

Thanks
 
Thank God! Now we're getting somewhere. This is like a dam breaking wide open. I hate to see these guys go down in flames, but whatever the outcome, the sport can only profit from these latest developments. Let's remember too, that most of the testimony given to the grand jury is still under wraps (Hincapie, Kristin Armstrong, other U.S. Postal riders). There's going to be a lot more coming out in the months ahead that most Lance defenders simply won't be able to rationalize away. It's easy to want to believe that Lance was the only rider at the pinnacle of the sport who rode clean those 7 years in a row (longer?). It just never made sense to me. I love the story of Daniel Webster selling his soul to the Devil. In cycling, when so many are caught doping, Lance selling his soul to the Devil is really the only plausible explanation I would have accepted. In the end, maybe that's what he really did. He sold his soul for glory, and now it's time to pay up. His biggest mistake, in my opinion, was being so greedy. It just called too much attention to himself.

I still hold out hope that he comes clean himself, before the evidence against him becomes insurmountable. As much as I dislike him as a person and sportsman, I would rather see him keep a bit of his dignity and go out with a bit of class.
 
This story is so big. CBS will definitely follow up with more later. 3 hours with Tyler alone, not to mention Frankie Andrieu and the sources at WADA. They barely touched on the UCI suppressing the drug test in the Tour de Suisse. I think most will agree that the interview with the WADA representative was riveting. Can't wait for more.
 
Originally Posted by hpearson .

Tyler is bottom feeding white trash. I could give a **** about the doping, cheating, lying with conviction and confession. YOU DON'T RAT OUT YOUR FRIENDS to save your own skin and certainly not for profit and certainly not on TV.

Having said that they need to put LA on suicide watch. What the hell do you tell your 12 year old son.
Some choices in life are extremely difficult. When a grand jury subpoenas you, you can lie to save your own skin and hope that you don't get charged with perjury later (federal offense). You can tell the truth, and as you put it, "rat out your friends". Your attitude exemplifies what is wrong with the culture of doping. It's got to stop somewhere. There's one guy at the top of this investigation, and his name is Lance Armstrong. Are you seriously suggesting that all these witnesses sacrifice themselves to protect one man and his tenuous legacy? Lance is the one person who profited the most, and at the expense of all his team mates and associates. Why shouldn't he bear the brunt of the punishment when the evidence finally catches up to him?
 
The bigger story is now the UCI.

Armstrong's dead and buried.
The UCI though? Covering up positive test results? Accepting money from the sports participants?
If these allegations can be proven, then it's squeaky bum time.
 
Lim,

The UCI confirmed a long time ago that Lance did "donate" money. Twice. Once in 2002 and again in 2005 for $25,000 and $100,000 respectively.
 
fascinating interview. i, for one, can't wait for a transcript of hincapie's testimony, the report on the bag handlers to m ferrari, and a photo of the bucket of sweat that must be pooling on uci's floors today. plenty of lamp oil had to have been burnt in the spin doctors' offices yesterday.

two thoughts:
1. wondering what chris carmichael's actual role in this has been, since his is the only name which didn't get a mention.
&
2. might lance have been one of the few really hoping for the rapture to have happened to take the attention off the 60 minutes broadcast?
 
Originally Posted by limerickman .

The bigger story is now the UCI.

Armstrong's dead and buried.
The UCI though? Covering up positive test results? Accepting money from the sports participants?
If these allegations can be proven, then it's squeaky bum time.
You're absolutely right. It seems most who found out about the "donations" to the UCI were skeptical at best. Even an average person like me has enough sense to know that the people being scrutinized don't give "donations" to the scrutineers. Actually a bit insulting to cycling fans.
 
Originally Posted by slovakguy .

fascinating interview. i, for one, can't wait for a transcript of hincapie's testimony, the report on the bag handlers to m ferrari, and a photo of the bucket of sweat that must be pooling on uci's floors today. plenty of lamp oil had to have been burnt in the spin doctors' offices yesterday.

two thoughts:
1. wondering what chris carmichael's actual role in this has been, since his is the only name which didn't get a mention.
&
2. might lance have been one of the few really hoping for the rapture to have happened to take the attention off the 60 minutes broadcast?
I vote for # 2. Almost choked on my coffee reading that one. LMAO!
 
Originally Posted by swampy1970 .

Lim,

The UCI confirmed a long time ago that Lance did "donate" money. Twice. Once in 2002 and again in 2005 for $25,000 and $100,000 respectively.

The UCI denied the story initially - but then eventually admitted that it did receive a "donation".

It stinks.
 
Originally Posted by lance_armstrong .

Thank God! Now we're getting somewhere. This is like a dam breaking wide open. I hate to see these guys go down in flames, but whatever the outcome, the sport can only profit from these latest developments.
Do people ever learn? The Intralipid debacle with PDM, The Festina Affair with not just Festina and TVM but a few other riders too, the admission from a most of ex-Telecom riders that they'd all used EPO during the mid to late 90's, "Oil for Drugs", Operation Puerto....

... it's hardly a short list and how has the sport profited from all of these and how will Lance going down make it any different? The short answer is: It hasn't and it won't. SSDD.

Doping doesn't seem to be on the decline and the only good thing about about all these recent "scandals" is that there's a large number of riders sitting on one doping offence and ready to lose their racing license for good the next time they get caught.

I wonder who be the next rung in the career level climbing ladder of Novitzky? I reckon David Beckham. There'll be some tie into an ex-cycling team doctor and his stays in Milan. Taking the Armstrong case would have made perfect sense for him when he worked with the IRS - but now he's with the FDA... Likewise if he'd been with the FDA several years ago it would have made perfect sense for him to take the Bonds case - but he was with the IRS. It'd be nice if the guy could actually figure out which department he's supposed to be working for ;)