Braze a Steerer tube extension?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Mg Maestas, Feb 7, 2004.

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  1. Mg Maestas

    Mg Maestas Guest

    I just picked up a Guerciotti frame because I happen to have a matching Guerc' fork. Unfortunately,
    the fork steerer tube seems ever-so-slightly too small.

    The frame head tube is 127mm. The fork steerer is 150 which is about 15mm too short for a
    standard headset.

    Can a framebuilder replace the steerer tube on my fork, or braze on an extension? How much should
    this cost?

    Alternatively, what about machining off 7mm off both the top and bottom of the head tube?

    Finally, does anyone sell a headset with extra-short stack height.

    Obviously, I am interested in safety here. The fork is what keeps your chin off the ground. Let me
    know your thoughts.
     
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  2. Dan Daniel

    Dan Daniel Guest

    On 07 Feb 2004 22:27:23 GMT, [email protected] (MG Maestas) wrote:

    >

    >
    >Finally, does anyone sell a headset with extra-short stack height.
    >

    I have a frame that came with an older Shimano 105 headset- 32 mm stack height. This is about the
    shortest that I have found in my search for a replacement headset. There might be something that
    goes down to 31 or 30m mm. I'l be curious to see if there is shorter headset out there, but I am not
    too hopeful.

    And the new steerer tube question- I'll be curious to see what others say. I am getting frame work
    done on the bike soon and will be asking about this.
     
  3. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Guest

    there are frame builders that braze on extensions, but from a safety viewpoint, i'd get them re-do
    the whole steerer tube.

    you /could/ try shortening the head tube as suggested, but unless your frame is already generous in
    that department, it's not a good compromise.

    if you /do/ go down the new steerer tube road, it may also be an opportunity to go threadless.
    threadless stems can be noticeably stiffer and their removable face plate design makes handlebar
    removal much easier - no need to strip off the wrap & brake levers.

    also, if you look back to the broken handlebar thread of jan 25, you may want to think about
    threadless from a fatigue viewpoint. not only is a steel steerer tube a much better fatigue
    proposition than an alloy quill, but it may be that the bar clamps are better designed as well.
    having looked at all my quill stems, i noticed that the clamp on all of them is sharply edged. this
    may contribute to handlebar fatigue. the threadless stems i have are all radiused at the edge of the
    clamp area - potentially a much better design. ymmv of course, and doubtless some stems are better
    or worse than others, but these points are worth consideration.

    jb

    MG Maestas wrote:
    > I just picked up a Guerciotti frame because I happen to have a matching Guerc' fork.
    > Unfortunately, the fork steerer tube seems ever-so-slightly too small.
    >
    > The frame head tube is 127mm. The fork steerer is 150 which is about 15mm too short for a standard
    > headset.
    >
    > Can a framebuilder replace the steerer tube on my fork, or braze on an extension? How much should
    > this cost?
    >
    > Alternatively, what about machining off 7mm off both the top and bottom of the head tube?
    >
    > Finally, does anyone sell a headset with extra-short stack height.
    >
    > Obviously, I am interested in safety here. The fork is what keeps your chin off the ground. Let me
    > know your thoughts.
     
  4. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On 07 Feb 2004 22:27:23 GMT, [email protected] (MG Maestas) may have
    said:

    >
    >I just picked up a Guerciotti frame because I happen to have a matching Guerc' fork. Unfortunately,
    >the fork steerer tube seems ever-so-slightly too small.
    >
    >The frame head tube is 127mm. The fork steerer is 150 which is about 15mm too short for a
    >standard headset.
    >
    >Can a framebuilder replace the steerer tube on my fork, or braze on an extension? How much should
    >this cost?
    >
    >Alternatively, what about machining off 7mm off both the top and bottom of the head tube?
    >
    >Finally, does anyone sell a headset with extra-short stack height.
    >
    >Obviously, I am interested in safety here. The fork is what keeps your chin off the ground. Let me
    >know your thoughts.

    If there's room to face the head tube enough on the top, take it all off there.

    You could also get the steerer threaded and go with a conventional stem; there should be plenty of
    tube for that.

    There are other solutions, but these are the two that I personally would prefer.

    It might, however, be cheaper to get a fork with the right steerer tube length.

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
    Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something,
    it's also possible that I'm busy.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
  5. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    MG Maestas wrote:
    > I just picked up a Guerciotti frame because I happen to have a matching Guerc' fork.
    > Unfortunately, the fork steerer tube seems ever-so-slightly too small. The frame head tube is
    > 127mm. The fork steerer is 150 which is about 15mm too short for a standard headset. Can a
    > framebuilder replace the steerer tube on my fork, or braze on an extension? How much should this
    > cost? Alternatively, what about machining off 7mm off both the top and bottom of the head tube?
    > Finally, does anyone sell a headset with extra-short stack height. Obviously, I am interested in
    > safety here. The fork is what keeps your chin off the ground. Let me know your thoughts.

    If you want to cut the top headlug , that's straightforward, just get it milled square afterwards.

    If you cut the bottom headlug, you would change the head angle. So don't.

    Yes, you could have the fork taken apart and rebuilt with a longer column. But not for what a fork
    costs. Especially not if there's any chrome in the way ( IIRC there is)

    No, although a lot of guys suggest a steerer splice, that's just not done. I have, in special cases,
    made sleeved columns but, again, not for what a fork costs.

    Hmmmm. You just happened to have a Guerciotti fork laying about? And you just happened to find a
    Guerciotti for sale, less the original fork, one size larger? What really happened?

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  6. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    jim beam wrote: -snip Guerciotti-
    > if you /do/ go down the new steerer tube road, it may also be an opportunity to go threadless.
    > threadless stems can be noticeably stiffer and their removable face plate design makes handlebar
    > removal much easier - no need to strip off the wrap & brake levers.

    There is no inherence . Both quill and AH stems come in nice beautiful wrapover and also the more
    troublesome faceplate designs.

    I now hear that 'no need to unwrap bars' comment frequently
    - but how often exactly have you untaped one side of a handlebar? What part of that was tedious
    or painful?

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  7. MG Maestas wrote:

    > I just picked up a Guerciotti frame because I happen to have a matching Guerc' fork.
    > Unfortunately, the fork steerer tube seems ever-so-slightly too small.
    >
    > The frame head tube is 127mm. The fork steerer is 150 which is about 15mm too short for a standard
    > headset.
    >
    > Can a framebuilder replace the steerer tube on my fork, or braze on an extension? How much should
    > this cost?
    >
    > Alternatively, what about machining off 7mm off both the top and bottom of the head tube?
    >
    > Finally, does anyone sell a headset with extra-short stack height.
    >
    > Obviously, I am interested in safety here. The fork is what keeps your chin off the ground. Let me
    > know your thoughts.
    >
    >
    Bob Jackson in the UK charge 32UKP plus VAT, so just under 40UKP all-in. They're one of the best
    steel framebuilders.

    Early 90s Shimano headsets had 32mm stack height but are increasingly rare.

    If you can stand the look of the stems, it might be more future-proof to have a threadless steerer
    this time.
     
  8. mg-<< The frame head tube is 127mm. The fork steerer is 150 which is about 15mm too short for a
    standard headset.

    Can a framebuilder replace the steerer tube on my fork, >><BR><BR>

    Yes they can....about $75 or so from Mark Nobilette..not including paint.

    << Alternatively, what about machining off 7mm off both the top and bottom of the head tube?
    >><BR><BR>

    bad idea...makes the geometry wierd and you will take some of the lugwork off...

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  9. uce-<< if you /do/ go down the new steerer tube road, it may also be an opportunity to go
    threadless. threadless stems can be noticeably stiffer and their removable face plate design makes
    handlebar removal much easier - no need to strip off the wrap & brake levers. >><BR><BR>

    'Noticeably stiffer', on a steel steerer?..may be measureable, like a crank stiffness but
    'noticeably' is a stretch indeed.

    And how often do you 'swap bars'? I've done it far less than I have worn out bar tape.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  10. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Guest

    my ttt quill is noticeably more flexible than either of my ritchey threadless. ymmv i guess.

    don't swap bars very often, but to answer both you & andrew, i personally /hate/, when i'm setting
    up a new bike, to undertake the job of testing a couple of different stem lengths with a traditional
    quill stem.

    even though the bar tape is new, it invariably gets replaced because that stupid sticky backing
    strip tears any tape it's stuck on top of and it's a p.i.t.a. to put on "just right". it may be fine
    for you guys that get to practice all the time, but personally, i find it's a job that's most
    infuriating and needlessly expensive.

    i don't get andrew's "troublesome" comment. my mountain bike has a removable face plate on the stem
    and that thing gets plenty of abuse. likewise, my fixie has a threadless stem with removable face
    plate and it gets torqued too. they've never come loose or been any problem, [unlike my fixie
    chainring which keeps loosening]. will let you know if one arises.

    jb

    Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
    > uce-<< if you /do/ go down the new steerer tube road, it may also be an opportunity to go
    > threadless. threadless stems can be noticeably stiffer and their removable face plate design makes
    > handlebar removal much easier - no need to strip off the wrap & brake levers. >><BR><BR>
    >
    > 'Noticeably stiffer', on a steel steerer?..may be measureable, like a crank stiffness but
    > 'noticeably' is a stretch indeed.
    >
    > And how often do you 'swap bars'? I've done it far less than I have worn out bar tape.
    >
    >
    >
    > Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    > (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  11. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Guest

    that's my point. with the quill, you have a 22mm alloy insert vs. a 25mm steerer tube. and because
    the steerer tube is bigger, you can sensibly make a slightly bigger diameter stem, so together they
    can be stiffer than the quill.

    Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
    > uce-<< my ttt quill is noticeably more flexible than either of my ritchey threadless. ymmv i
    > guess. >><BR><BR>
    >
    > It's the material and size of the stem, not that one is threaded and one is threadless, IMHO...If
    > the TTT was made like the Ritchey, same dimensions but theadless or vice versa, I think they would
    > 'feel' the same.
     
  12. jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:
    > don't swap bars very often, but to answer both you & andrew, i personally /hate/, when i'm setting
    > up a new bike, to undertake the job of testing a couple of different stem lengths with a
    > traditional quill stem.

    > even though the bar tape is new, it invariably gets replaced because that stupid sticky backing
    > strip tears any tape it's stuck on top of and it's a p.i.t.a. to put on "just right". it may be
    > fine for you guys that get to practice all the time, but personally, i find it's a job that's most
    > infuriating and needlessly expensive.

    Usually that sticky backing strip is double stick tape and you can peel it off the bar tape before
    installing. This makes it a lot easier to unwrap the bars. The tape stays in place fine without the
    sticky crap. I run a office-supply type glue stick over the outer curves of the bars to get the tape
    to cling a little better, though that may not do much.
     
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