Bread recipe help?

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by JeanineAlyse in 29 Palms, Jan 10, 2005.

  1. I have now made, on different days, seven loaves of a very delicious
    desert bread, but it's after baking and cooled character does not allow
    other than a breaking up slicing...much like a cake may. From the
    following ingredients, what could be changed so that the after-bake
    consistency holds together best?

    Makes two loaves:
    1-1/2 cups granulated sugar
    1 cup softened butter
    4 large eggs
    1 cup sour cream
    1/2 cup orange juice
    2 Tbsp. micro-grated orange peel
    3-1/2 cups all purpose flour
    1-1/2 tsp. baking powder
    1 tsp. baking soda
    2 cups chopped walnuts

    Toasted/heated 3/4" slices are spread with a bit of the mixture of 1/2
    cup butter, 1 Tbsp. powdered sugar, 3 Tbsp. orange marmalade. All
    tastes wonderful, though I do decrease the orange peel to one fat Tbsp.,
    but it's the slicing that is my problem. And ideas?

    Picky ~JA~
     
    Tags:


  2. Bob

    Bob Guest

    JA wrote:

    >I have now made, on different days, seven loaves of a very delicious
    > desert bread, but it's after baking and cooled character does not allow
    > other than a breaking up slicing...much like a cake may. From the
    > following ingredients, what could be changed so that the after-bake
    > consistency holds together best?
    >
    > Makes two loaves:
    > 1-1/2 cups granulated sugar
    > 1 cup softened butter
    > 4 large eggs
    > 1 cup sour cream
    > 1/2 cup orange juice
    > 2 Tbsp. micro-grated orange peel
    > 3-1/2 cups all purpose flour
    > 1-1/2 tsp. baking powder
    > 1 tsp. baking soda
    > 2 cups chopped walnuts
    >
    > Toasted/heated 3/4" slices are spread with a bit of the mixture of 1/2
    > cup butter, 1 Tbsp. powdered sugar, 3 Tbsp. orange marmalade. All
    > tastes wonderful, though I do decrease the orange peel to one fat Tbsp.,
    > but it's the slicing that is my problem. And ideas?


    How long do you knead the bread? I'm guessing that the problem is
    insufficient gluten development.

    Bob
     
  3. Sal

    Sal Guest

    "Bob" <[email protected]_spammer.com> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > JA wrote:
    >
    >>I have now made, on different days, seven loaves of a very delicious
    >> desert bread, but it's after baking and cooled character does not
    >> allow other than a breaking up slicing...much like a cake may. From
    >> the following ingredients, what could be changed so that the
    >> after-bake consistency holds together best?
    >>
    >> Makes two loaves:
    >> 1-1/2 cups granulated sugar
    >> 1 cup softened butter
    >> 4 large eggs
    >> 1 cup sour cream
    >> 1/2 cup orange juice
    >> 2 Tbsp. micro-grated orange peel
    >> 3-1/2 cups all purpose flour
    >> 1-1/2 tsp. baking powder
    >> 1 tsp. baking soda
    >> 2 cups chopped walnuts
    >>
    >> Toasted/heated 3/4" slices are spread with a bit of the mixture of
    >> 1/2 cup butter, 1 Tbsp. powdered sugar, 3 Tbsp. orange marmalade.
    >> All tastes wonderful, though I do decrease the orange peel to one fat
    >> Tbsp., but it's the slicing that is my problem. And ideas?

    >
    > How long do you knead the bread? I'm guessing that the problem is
    > insufficient gluten development.
    >
    > Bob
    >
    >
    >


    It's a quick bread, so it does not require kneading, and the texture
    will be more like cake than like a yeast bread.

    SallyW
     
  4. Hahabogus

    Hahabogus Guest

    Sal <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
    > Subject: Re: Bread recipe help?
    > From: Sal <[email protected]>
    >
    > "Bob" <[email protected]_spammer.com> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    > > JA wrote:
    > >
    > >>I have now made, on different days, seven loaves of a very
    > >>delicious
    > >> desert bread, but it's after baking and cooled character does not
    > >> allow other than a breaking up slicing...much like a cake may.
    > >> From the following ingredients, what could be changed so that the
    > >> after-bake consistency holds together best?
    > >>
    > >> Makes two loaves:
    > >> 1-1/2 cups granulated sugar
    > >> 1 cup softened butter
    > >> 4 large eggs
    > >> 1 cup sour cream
    > >> 1/2 cup orange juice
    > >> 2 Tbsp. micro-grated orange peel
    > >> 3-1/2 cups all purpose flour
    > >> 1-1/2 tsp. baking powder
    > >> 1 tsp. baking soda
    > >> 2 cups chopped walnuts
    > >>
    > >> Toasted/heated 3/4" slices are spread with a bit of the mixture
    > >> of 1/2 cup butter, 1 Tbsp. powdered sugar, 3 Tbsp. orange
    > >> marmalade. All tastes wonderful, though I do decrease the orange
    > >> peel to one fat Tbsp., but it's the slicing that is my problem.
    > >> And ideas?

    > >
    > > How long do you knead the bread? I'm guessing that the problem is
    > > insufficient gluten development.
    > >
    > > Bob
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    > It's a quick bread, so it does not require kneading, and the texture
    > will be more like cake than like a yeast bread.
    >
    > SallyW
    >
    >


    If you replaced the butter with cooking oil it might cut better.

    --
    Starchless in Manitoba.
    Type 2 Diabetic 1AC 5.6mmol or 101mg/dl
     
  5. Bob

    Bob Guest

    SallyW wrote:

    > It's a quick bread, so it does not require kneading, and the texture
    > will be more like cake than like a yeast bread.


    But the OP doesn't *want* it to have a cakelike texture. Beating the batter
    longer should result in the bread being more like bread. The method I'd
    recommend would be to put all ingredients together except for the nuts,
    baking powder, and baking soda, and beat the batter for at least five
    minutes. Then stir in the leavening ingredients and the nuts and bake.

    Bob
     
  6. PENMART01

    PENMART01 Guest

    >"Boob" belches:
    >
    >SallyW wrote:
    >
    >> It's a quick bread, so it does not require kneading, and the texture
    >> will be more like cake than like a yeast bread.

    >
    >But the OP doesn't *want* it to have a cakelike texture. Beating the batter
    >longer should result in the bread being more like bread. The method I'd
    >recommend would be to put all ingredients together except for the nuts,
    >baking powder, and baking soda, and beat the batter for at least five
    >minutes. Then stir in the leavening ingredients and the nuts and bake.


    You just now made that up... it's patently obvious you've never baked anything.

    Overmixing quick bread batter results in wallpaper paste, which when baked will
    yield very hard/dense *hocky pucks*. Quick breads should be *mixed by hand*,
    gently stirred just enough to barely blend (lumps are desirable)... quick bread
    batter is never beaten... in fact yeast bread is never beaten either. Quick
    breads will never develop the structure of yeast breads.


    ---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
    ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
    *********
    "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
    Sheldon
    ````````````
     
  7. JeanineAlyse in 29 Palms wrote:

    > I have now made, on different days, seven loaves of a very delicious
    > desert bread, but it's after baking and cooled character does not allow
    > other than a breaking up slicing...much like a cake may.


    It *is* a cake. The high fat content (butter, eggs, sour cream)
    militates against gluten development - thwarts the creation of the
    protein matrix. The high ratio of nuts to flour means that the flour
    is, at best, merely a matrix to hold them together. The sugar and
    moisture (juice, butter, sour cream, eggs) also work to prevent gluten
    development and hold in a greater percent of the moisture than would
    be the case with a bread.

    > From the
    > following ingredients, what could be changed so that the after-bake
    > consistency holds together best?


    Substitute 1/4 cup gluten flour for 1/4 cup of flour. Knead it, even
    though it's a quick bread. You'll lose some of the rise because the
    baking soda will lose a good bit of its leavening power and the baking
    powder will lose about 1/2 of its double-acting capacity. It won't
    rise as much and it'll be springier, chewier. You won't like it.

    The real answer to your question is that without a major shift in
    formulation, you can't make a cake into a bread.

    Pastorio

    > Makes two loaves:
    > 1-1/2 cups granulated sugar
    > 1 cup softened butter
    > 4 large eggs
    > 1 cup sour cream
    > 1/2 cup orange juice
    > 2 Tbsp. micro-grated orange peel
    > 3-1/2 cups all purpose flour
    > 1-1/2 tsp. baking powder
    > 1 tsp. baking soda
    > 2 cups chopped walnuts
    >
    > Toasted/heated 3/4" slices are spread with a bit of the mixture of 1/2
    > cup butter, 1 Tbsp. powdered sugar, 3 Tbsp. orange marmalade. All
    > tastes wonderful, though I do decrease the orange peel to one fat Tbsp.,
    > but it's the slicing that is my problem. And ideas?
    >
    > Picky ~JA~
     
  8. Bob Pastorio offers, in part....
    >The real answer to your question is that
    >without a major shift in formulation, you
    >can't make a cake into a bread.

    Thanks for the entire reply, Bob. It's not that I want an actual
    starchy bread consistency, it's just that I want to be able to cut mere
    3/4" slices of the loaf without those slices breaking apart before I can
    plate them for a real quick broiler-toasting to better then accept the
    room temperature marmalade buttering. Simply a denser consistency for
    the cake may have been the best way for me to describe what I'm after.

    Picky ~JA~
     
  9. Bob

    Bob Guest

    PENISMOUTH01 spat:

    >> But the OP doesn't *want* it to have a cakelike texture. Beating the
    >> batter longer should result in the bread being more like bread. The
    >> method I'd recommend would be to put all ingredients together except
    >> for the nuts, baking powder, and baking soda, and beat the batter for
    >> at least five minutes. Then stir in the leavening ingredients and the

    > nuts and bake.
    >
    > You just now made that up... it's patently obvious you've never baked
    > anything.
    >
    > Overmixing quick bread batter results in wallpaper paste, which when baked
    > will yield very hard/dense *hocky pucks*. Quick breads should be *mixed
    > by
    > hand*, gently stirred just enough to barely blend (lumps are desirable)...
    > quick bread batter is never beaten... in fact yeast bread is never beaten
    > either. Quick breads will never develop the structure of yeast breads.


    It's patently obvious you've never TRIED to develop a gluten structure in a
    quick bread. Just shut up before you embarrass yourself further.

    I'm not disagreeing with the way quick breads SHOULD be made, but the OP
    wants something DIFFERENT from a quick bread. Apparently, that failed to
    register in your dim little mind.

    "Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time."

    Bob
     
  10. In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (JeanineAlyse in 29 Palms) wrote:

    > I have now made, on different days, seven loaves of a very delicious
    > desert bread, but it's after baking and cooled character does not allow
    > other than a breaking up slicing...much like a cake may. From the
    > following ingredients, what could be changed so that the after-bake
    > consistency holds together best?
    >
    > Makes two loaves:
    > 1-1/2 cups granulated sugar
    > 1 cup softened butter
    > 4 large eggs
    > 1 cup sour cream
    > 1/2 cup orange juice
    > 2 Tbsp. micro-grated orange peel
    > 3-1/2 cups all purpose flour
    > 1-1/2 tsp. baking powder
    > 1 tsp. baking soda
    > 2 cups chopped walnuts
    >
    > Toasted/heated 3/4" slices are spread with a bit of the mixture of 1/2
    > cup butter, 1 Tbsp. powdered sugar, 3 Tbsp. orange marmalade. All
    > tastes wonderful, though I do decrease the orange peel to one fat Tbsp.,
    > but it's the slicing that is my problem. And ideas?
    >
    > Picky ~JA~
    >


    Well, damn, JeanineAlyse -- I don't know what will solve your problem,
    but I'm going to make some!! Gotta get to the store today, anyway --
    gonna be colder than a witch's whatever here for the next week. We're
    just back from Lost Wages and I need to run my vehickle some.
    --
    -Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> More on 1-4-05
    "I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and say,
    'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner, performance
    at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.
     
  11. In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (JeanineAlyse in 29 Palms) wrote:

    > I have now made, on different days, seven loaves of a very delicious
    > desert bread, but it's after baking and cooled character does not allow
    > other than a breaking up slicing...much like a cake may. From the
    > following ingredients, what could be changed so that the after-bake
    > consistency holds together best?
    >
    > Makes two loaves:
    > 1-1/2 cups granulated sugar
    > 1 cup softened butter
    > 4 large eggs
    > 1 cup sour cream
    > 1/2 cup orange juice
    > 2 Tbsp. micro-grated orange peel
    > 3-1/2 cups all purpose flour
    > 1-1/2 tsp. baking powder
    > 1 tsp. baking soda
    > 2 cups chopped walnuts
    >
    > Toasted/heated 3/4" slices are spread with a bit of the mixture of 1/2
    > cup butter, 1 Tbsp. powdered sugar, 3 Tbsp. orange marmalade. All
    > tastes wonderful, though I do decrease the orange peel to one fat Tbsp.,
    > but it's the slicing that is my problem. And ideas?
    >
    > Picky ~JA~
    >


    Had a thought. Sometimes quick breads say to let them sit overnight
    before slicing. Pastorio's vast experience and knowledge aside, I
    wouldn't knead this stuff for anything. You're making batter, not dough.
    --
    -Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> More on 1-4-05
    "I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and say,
    'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner, performance
    at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.
     
  12. In article <41e41e[email protected]>, "Bob"
    <[email protected]_spammer.com> wrote:

    > SallyW wrote:
    >
    > > It's a quick bread, so it does not require kneading, and the texture
    > > will be more like cake than like a yeast bread.

    >
    > But the OP doesn't *want* it to have a cakelike texture. Beating the
    > batter
    > longer should result in the bread being more like bread. The method I'd
    > recommend would be to put all ingredients together except for the nuts,
    > baking powder, and baking soda, and beat the batter for at least five
    > minutes. Then stir in the leavening ingredients and the nuts and bake.
    >
    > Bob


    I don't think she's as concerned about a cakelike texture as she is
    about being able to slice and toast it. You've never cut a piece of
    poundcake and toasted it? I'm thinking that's what she's got in mind.
    I do not think she's looking to have bread bread. :)
    (Defend me here, JeanineAlyse.)
    --
    -Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> More on 1-4-05
    "I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and say,
    'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner, performance
    at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.
     
  13. >SallyW wrote:
    >It's a quick bread, so it does not require
    >kneading, and the texture will be more
    >like cake than like a yeast bread.

    Bob Pastorio adds....
    >But the OP doesn't *want* it to have a
    >cakelike texture. Beating the batter
    >longer should result in the bread being
    >more like bread. The method I'd
    >recommend would be to put all
    >ingredients together except for the nuts,
    >baking powder, and baking soda, and
    >beat the batter for at least five minutes.
    >Then stir in the leavening ingredients
    >and the nuts and bake.

    Barb Shaller pipes in with,
    >>I don't think she's as concerned about a
    >>cakelike texture as she is about being
    >>able to slice and toast it. You've never
    >>cut a piece of poundcake and toasted
    >>it? I'm thinking that's what she's got in
    >>mind. I do not think she's looking to
    >>have bread bread. :) (Defend me here,
    >>JeanineAlyse.)

    Exactly, not bread-bread, but more like a pound cake. I think next time
    with this recipe I will combine Bob's beat the heck outta it, along with
    Barb's refrigerate overnight before slicing. Thanks all...;-)

    Picky ~JA~
     
  14. Hahabogus

    Hahabogus Guest

    [email protected] (JeanineAlyse in 29 Palms) wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Exactly, not bread-bread, but more like a pound cake. I think next
    > time with this recipe I will combine Bob's beat the heck outta it,
    > along with Barb's refrigerate overnight before slicing. Thanks
    > all...;-)
    >


    It is a quick bread...The baking soda helps in leavening....The longer
    you play with it or it stays outa the oven the denser/flatter it will be.

    The baking soda reacts with any acidic ingredients in the recipe; as soon
    as the 'wet' and the 'dry' are combined...waiting too long will ensure
    that the baking soda gets spent or used up prior to baking. Leaving you
    kinda flatish.

    If messing with the oil didn't help...try adding a egg. The egg will act
    as a binder, 'holding' things together.

    And if the egg doesn't help, call the 'Quick Bread' a 'Muffin' and cook
    it in muffin tins. Breaking into pieces, when cut, is a sign of a quality
    muffin.

    --
    Starchless in Manitoba.
    Type 2 Diabetic 1AC 5.6mmol or 101mg/dl
     
  15. Joe Yudelson

    Joe Yudelson Guest

    Hi: I would cut the sugar by half and I would reduce the butter t one-half
    cup.

    Joe
    "Melba's Jammin'" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > [email protected] (JeanineAlyse in 29 Palms) wrote:
    >
    >> I have now made, on different days, seven loaves of a very delicious
    >> desert bread, but it's after baking and cooled character does not allow
    >> other than a breaking up slicing...much like a cake may. From the
    >> following ingredients, what could be changed so that the after-bake
    >> consistency holds together best?
    >>
    >> Makes two loaves:
    >> 1-1/2 cups granulated sugar
    >> 1 cup softened butter
    >> 4 large eggs
    >> 1 cup sour cream
    >> 1/2 cup orange juice
    >> 2 Tbsp. micro-grated orange peel
    >> 3-1/2 cups all purpose flour
    >> 1-1/2 tsp. baking powder
    >> 1 tsp. baking soda
    >> 2 cups chopped walnuts
    >>
    >> Toasted/heated 3/4" slices are spread with a bit of the mixture of 1/2
    >> cup butter, 1 Tbsp. powdered sugar, 3 Tbsp. orange marmalade. All
    >> tastes wonderful, though I do decrease the orange peel to one fat Tbsp.,
    >> but it's the slicing that is my problem. And ideas?
    >>
    >> Picky ~JA~
    >>

    >
    > Well, damn, JeanineAlyse -- I don't know what will solve your problem,
    > but I'm going to make some!! Gotta get to the store today, anyway --
    > gonna be colder than a witch's whatever here for the next week. We're
    > just back from Lost Wages and I need to run my vehickle some.
    > --
    > -Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> More on 1-4-05
    > "I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and say,
    > 'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner, performance
    > at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.
     
  16. In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (JeanineAlyse in 29 Palms) wrote:

    > >SallyW wrote:
    > >It's a quick bread, so it does not require
    > >kneading, and the texture will be more
    > >like cake than like a yeast bread.

    > Bob Pastorio adds....
    > >But the OP doesn't *want* it to have a
    > >cakelike texture. Beating the batter
    > >longer should result in the bread being
    > >more like bread. The method I'd
    > >recommend would be to put all
    > >ingredients together except for the nuts,
    > >baking powder, and baking soda, and
    > >beat the batter for at least five minutes.
    > >Then stir in the leavening ingredients
    > >and the nuts and bake.

    > Barb Shaller pipes in with,
    > >>I don't think she's as concerned about a
    > >>cakelike texture as she is about being
    > >>able to slice and toast it. You've never
    > >>cut a piece of poundcake and toasted
    > >>it? I'm thinking that's what she's got in
    > >>mind. I do not think she's looking to
    > >>have bread bread. :) (Defend me here,
    > >>JeanineAlyse.)

    > Exactly, not bread-bread, but more like a pound cake. I think next time
    > with this recipe I will combine Bob's beat the heck outta it, along with
    > Barb's refrigerate overnight before slicing. Thanks all...;-)
    >
    > Picky ~JA~
    >


    Sure -- but how was the New Year's Day piggy? I pinged you but you
    must've missed it.
    --
    -Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Trip Report and pics added 1-13-05
    "I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and say,
    'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner, performance
    at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.
     
  17. >Sure -- but how was the New Year's Day
    >piggy? I pinged you but you must've
    >missed it---Barb

    Sorry not to have told before now, as I do remember your asking that I
    report.

    The piggy was brined in that huge cooler with, among other seasonings
    and "stuff," kosher salt orange peels and brown sugar for the day up to
    the midnight roast begin. It was stuffed with various amounts of
    onions, celery, carrots, two whole chickens and a goose. Son suspected
    thqat this first time try of brining may aid in tenderness and juicy,
    and while stuffing it he learned that brining caused the piggy to (in
    his words) get soft. Hah! This piggy was rotisserie-roasted in near to
    half the time usual, dripping it's internal juices onto the smoldering
    woods for a wonderful and teasing aroma while self-basteing. So when it
    started splitting open and the goose fell onto the woody fire, Son
    snatched it out in time enough for it not to burn much. He said
    although he'd never tasted roast goose before, it was a wondrous
    delight, and the piggie was fork-tender and to die for.

    All of the pig party peeps claim this roasting was the very best ever,
    and all were pleased that most all of their side-dish contributions were
    timed well for the ready. Son has determined that with this "best ever"
    pig roasting there could not be a topper, so next year he will begin
    another venture with something different, and probably a mix of
    feathered and not. I suggested he do a couple of ostrich, to which he
    said, "Mom, you know that sounds perfect!" He's figuring for one
    stuffed ostrich, along with some other stuffed birds/animals to be
    roasted shishkabob style, with well netted veggie seasoning bags tightly
    jammed between each for his own "side dish" contribution.

    Who'd a guessed? My no time for women keepings, skin diving, snow
    boarding, rifle and pistol collector crack-shot son becoming a depended
    on party chef each new year! He's already started a conning process by
    which he hopes to have me there next New Years, for making what he
    fcalls "Mom's two-foot-torts" on site for everyone there as well.

    Picky ~JA~
     
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