Bread recipe help?

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JeanineAlyse in 29 Palms

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I have now made, on different days, seven loaves of a very delicious
desert bread, but it's after baking and cooled character does not allow
other than a breaking up slicing...much like a cake may. From the
following ingredients, what could be changed so that the after-bake
consistency holds together best?

Makes two loaves:
1-1/2 cups granulated sugar
1 cup softened butter
4 large eggs
1 cup sour cream
1/2 cup orange juice
2 Tbsp. micro-grated orange peel
3-1/2 cups all purpose flour
1-1/2 tsp. baking powder
1 tsp. baking soda
2 cups chopped walnuts

Toasted/heated 3/4" slices are spread with a bit of the mixture of 1/2
cup butter, 1 Tbsp. powdered sugar, 3 Tbsp. orange marmalade. All
tastes wonderful, though I do decrease the orange peel to one fat Tbsp.,
but it's the slicing that is my problem. And ideas?

Picky ~JA~
 
JA wrote:

>I have now made, on different days, seven loaves of a very delicious
> desert bread, but it's after baking and cooled character does not allow
> other than a breaking up slicing...much like a cake may. From the
> following ingredients, what could be changed so that the after-bake
> consistency holds together best?
>
> Makes two loaves:
> 1-1/2 cups granulated sugar
> 1 cup softened butter
> 4 large eggs
> 1 cup sour cream
> 1/2 cup orange juice
> 2 Tbsp. micro-grated orange peel
> 3-1/2 cups all purpose flour
> 1-1/2 tsp. baking powder
> 1 tsp. baking soda
> 2 cups chopped walnuts
>
> Toasted/heated 3/4" slices are spread with a bit of the mixture of 1/2
> cup butter, 1 Tbsp. powdered sugar, 3 Tbsp. orange marmalade. All
> tastes wonderful, though I do decrease the orange peel to one fat Tbsp.,
> but it's the slicing that is my problem. And ideas?

How long do you knead the bread? I'm guessing that the problem is
insufficient gluten development.

Bob
 
"Bob" <virtualgoth@die_spammer.com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> JA wrote:
>
>>I have now made, on different days, seven loaves of a very delicious
>> desert bread, but it's after baking and cooled character does not
>> allow other than a breaking up slicing...much like a cake may. From
>> the following ingredients, what could be changed so that the
>> after-bake consistency holds together best?
>>
>> Makes two loaves:
>> 1-1/2 cups granulated sugar
>> 1 cup softened butter
>> 4 large eggs
>> 1 cup sour cream
>> 1/2 cup orange juice
>> 2 Tbsp. micro-grated orange peel
>> 3-1/2 cups all purpose flour
>> 1-1/2 tsp. baking powder
>> 1 tsp. baking soda
>> 2 cups chopped walnuts
>>
>> Toasted/heated 3/4" slices are spread with a bit of the mixture of
>> 1/2 cup butter, 1 Tbsp. powdered sugar, 3 Tbsp. orange marmalade.
>> All tastes wonderful, though I do decrease the orange peel to one fat
>> Tbsp., but it's the slicing that is my problem. And ideas?
>
> How long do you knead the bread? I'm guessing that the problem is
> insufficient gluten development.
>
> Bob
>
>
>

It's a quick bread, so it does not require kneading, and the texture
will be more like cake than like a yeast bread.

SallyW
 
Sal <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
> Subject: Re: Bread recipe help?
> From: Sal <[email protected]>
>
> "Bob" <virtualgoth@die_spammer.com> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > JA wrote:
> >
> >>I have now made, on different days, seven loaves of a very
> >>delicious
> >> desert bread, but it's after baking and cooled character does not
> >> allow other than a breaking up slicing...much like a cake may.
> >> From the following ingredients, what could be changed so that the
> >> after-bake consistency holds together best?
> >>
> >> Makes two loaves:
> >> 1-1/2 cups granulated sugar
> >> 1 cup softened butter
> >> 4 large eggs
> >> 1 cup sour cream
> >> 1/2 cup orange juice
> >> 2 Tbsp. micro-grated orange peel
> >> 3-1/2 cups all purpose flour
> >> 1-1/2 tsp. baking powder
> >> 1 tsp. baking soda
> >> 2 cups chopped walnuts
> >>
> >> Toasted/heated 3/4" slices are spread with a bit of the mixture
> >> of 1/2 cup butter, 1 Tbsp. powdered sugar, 3 Tbsp. orange
> >> marmalade. All tastes wonderful, though I do decrease the orange
> >> peel to one fat Tbsp., but it's the slicing that is my problem.
> >> And ideas?
> >
> > How long do you knead the bread? I'm guessing that the problem is
> > insufficient gluten development.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
>
> It's a quick bread, so it does not require kneading, and the texture
> will be more like cake than like a yeast bread.
>
> SallyW
>
>

If you replaced the butter with cooking oil it might cut better.

--
Starchless in Manitoba.
Type 2 Diabetic 1AC 5.6mmol or 101mg/dl
 
SallyW wrote:

> It's a quick bread, so it does not require kneading, and the texture
> will be more like cake than like a yeast bread.

But the OP doesn't *want* it to have a cakelike texture. Beating the batter
longer should result in the bread being more like bread. The method I'd
recommend would be to put all ingredients together except for the nuts,
baking powder, and baking soda, and beat the batter for at least five
minutes. Then stir in the leavening ingredients and the nuts and bake.

Bob
 
>"****" belches:
>
>SallyW wrote:
>
>> It's a quick bread, so it does not require kneading, and the texture
>> will be more like cake than like a yeast bread.
>
>But the OP doesn't *want* it to have a cakelike texture. Beating the batter
>longer should result in the bread being more like bread. The method I'd
>recommend would be to put all ingredients together except for the nuts,
>baking powder, and baking soda, and beat the batter for at least five
>minutes. Then stir in the leavening ingredients and the nuts and bake.

You just now made that up... it's patently obvious you've never baked anything.

Overmixing quick bread batter results in wallpaper paste, which when baked will
yield very hard/dense *hocky pucks*. Quick breads should be *mixed by hand*,
gently stirred just enough to barely blend (lumps are desirable)... quick bread
batter is never beaten... in fact yeast bread is never beaten either. Quick
breads will never develop the structure of yeast breads.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````
 
JeanineAlyse in 29 Palms wrote:

> I have now made, on different days, seven loaves of a very delicious
> desert bread, but it's after baking and cooled character does not allow
> other than a breaking up slicing...much like a cake may.

It *is* a cake. The high fat content (butter, eggs, sour cream)
militates against gluten development - thwarts the creation of the
protein matrix. The high ratio of nuts to flour means that the flour
is, at best, merely a matrix to hold them together. The sugar and
moisture (juice, butter, sour cream, eggs) also work to prevent gluten
development and hold in a greater percent of the moisture than would
be the case with a bread.

> From the
> following ingredients, what could be changed so that the after-bake
> consistency holds together best?

Substitute 1/4 cup gluten flour for 1/4 cup of flour. Knead it, even
though it's a quick bread. You'll lose some of the rise because the
baking soda will lose a good bit of its leavening power and the baking
powder will lose about 1/2 of its double-acting capacity. It won't
rise as much and it'll be springier, chewier. You won't like it.

The real answer to your question is that without a major shift in
formulation, you can't make a cake into a bread.

Pastorio

> Makes two loaves:
> 1-1/2 cups granulated sugar
> 1 cup softened butter
> 4 large eggs
> 1 cup sour cream
> 1/2 cup orange juice
> 2 Tbsp. micro-grated orange peel
> 3-1/2 cups all purpose flour
> 1-1/2 tsp. baking powder
> 1 tsp. baking soda
> 2 cups chopped walnuts
>
> Toasted/heated 3/4" slices are spread with a bit of the mixture of 1/2
> cup butter, 1 Tbsp. powdered sugar, 3 Tbsp. orange marmalade. All
> tastes wonderful, though I do decrease the orange peel to one fat Tbsp.,
> but it's the slicing that is my problem. And ideas?
>
> Picky ~JA~
 
Bob Pastorio offers, in part....
>The real answer to your question is that
>without a major shift in formulation, you
>can't make a cake into a bread.
Thanks for the entire reply, Bob. It's not that I want an actual
starchy bread consistency, it's just that I want to be able to cut mere
3/4" slices of the loaf without those slices breaking apart before I can
plate them for a real quick broiler-toasting to better then accept the
room temperature marmalade buttering. Simply a denser consistency for
the cake may have been the best way for me to describe what I'm after.

Picky ~JA~
 
PENISMOUTH01 spat:

>> But the OP doesn't *want* it to have a cakelike texture. Beating the
>> batter longer should result in the bread being more like bread. The
>> method I'd recommend would be to put all ingredients together except
>> for the nuts, baking powder, and baking soda, and beat the batter for
>> at least five minutes. Then stir in the leavening ingredients and the
> nuts and bake.
>
> You just now made that up... it's patently obvious you've never baked
> anything.
>
> Overmixing quick bread batter results in wallpaper paste, which when baked
> will yield very hard/dense *hocky pucks*. Quick breads should be *mixed
> by
> hand*, gently stirred just enough to barely blend (lumps are desirable)...
> quick bread batter is never beaten... in fact yeast bread is never beaten
> either. Quick breads will never develop the structure of yeast breads.

It's patently obvious you've never TRIED to develop a gluten structure in a
quick bread. Just shut up before you embarrass yourself further.

I'm not disagreeing with the way quick breads SHOULD be made, but the OP
wants something DIFFERENT from a quick bread. Apparently, that failed to
register in your dim little mind.

"Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time."

Bob
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (JeanineAlyse in 29 Palms) wrote:

> I have now made, on different days, seven loaves of a very delicious
> desert bread, but it's after baking and cooled character does not allow
> other than a breaking up slicing...much like a cake may. From the
> following ingredients, what could be changed so that the after-bake
> consistency holds together best?
>
> Makes two loaves:
> 1-1/2 cups granulated sugar
> 1 cup softened butter
> 4 large eggs
> 1 cup sour cream
> 1/2 cup orange juice
> 2 Tbsp. micro-grated orange peel
> 3-1/2 cups all purpose flour
> 1-1/2 tsp. baking powder
> 1 tsp. baking soda
> 2 cups chopped walnuts
>
> Toasted/heated 3/4" slices are spread with a bit of the mixture of 1/2
> cup butter, 1 Tbsp. powdered sugar, 3 Tbsp. orange marmalade. All
> tastes wonderful, though I do decrease the orange peel to one fat Tbsp.,
> but it's the slicing that is my problem. And ideas?
>
> Picky ~JA~
>

Well, damn, JeanineAlyse -- I don't know what will solve your problem,
but I'm going to make some!! Gotta get to the store today, anyway --
gonna be colder than a witch's whatever here for the next week. We're
just back from Lost Wages and I need to run my vehickle some.
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> More on 1-4-05
"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and say,
'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner, performance
at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (JeanineAlyse in 29 Palms) wrote:

> I have now made, on different days, seven loaves of a very delicious
> desert bread, but it's after baking and cooled character does not allow
> other than a breaking up slicing...much like a cake may. From the
> following ingredients, what could be changed so that the after-bake
> consistency holds together best?
>
> Makes two loaves:
> 1-1/2 cups granulated sugar
> 1 cup softened butter
> 4 large eggs
> 1 cup sour cream
> 1/2 cup orange juice
> 2 Tbsp. micro-grated orange peel
> 3-1/2 cups all purpose flour
> 1-1/2 tsp. baking powder
> 1 tsp. baking soda
> 2 cups chopped walnuts
>
> Toasted/heated 3/4" slices are spread with a bit of the mixture of 1/2
> cup butter, 1 Tbsp. powdered sugar, 3 Tbsp. orange marmalade. All
> tastes wonderful, though I do decrease the orange peel to one fat Tbsp.,
> but it's the slicing that is my problem. And ideas?
>
> Picky ~JA~
>

Had a thought. Sometimes quick breads say to let them sit overnight
before slicing. Pastorio's vast experience and knowledge aside, I
wouldn't knead this stuff for anything. You're making batter, not dough.
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> More on 1-4-05
"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and say,
'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner, performance
at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.
 
In article <[email protected]>, "Bob"
<virtualgoth@die_spammer.com> wrote:

> SallyW wrote:
>
> > It's a quick bread, so it does not require kneading, and the texture
> > will be more like cake than like a yeast bread.
>
> But the OP doesn't *want* it to have a cakelike texture. Beating the
> batter
> longer should result in the bread being more like bread. The method I'd
> recommend would be to put all ingredients together except for the nuts,
> baking powder, and baking soda, and beat the batter for at least five
> minutes. Then stir in the leavening ingredients and the nuts and bake.
>
> Bob

I don't think she's as concerned about a cakelike texture as she is
about being able to slice and toast it. You've never cut a piece of
poundcake and toasted it? I'm thinking that's what she's got in mind.
I do not think she's looking to have bread bread. :)
(Defend me here, JeanineAlyse.)
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> More on 1-4-05
"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and say,
'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner, performance
at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.
 
>SallyW wrote:
>It's a quick bread, so it does not require
>kneading, and the texture will be more
>like cake than like a yeast bread.
Bob Pastorio adds....
>But the OP doesn't *want* it to have a
>cakelike texture. Beating the batter
>longer should result in the bread being
>more like bread. The method I'd
>recommend would be to put all
>ingredients together except for the nuts,
>baking powder, and baking soda, and
>beat the batter for at least five minutes.
>Then stir in the leavening ingredients
>and the nuts and bake.
Barb Shaller pipes in with,
>>I don't think she's as concerned about a
>>cakelike texture as she is about being
>>able to slice and toast it. You've never
>>cut a piece of poundcake and toasted
>>it? I'm thinking that's what she's got in
>>mind. I do not think she's looking to
>>have bread bread. :) (Defend me here,
>>JeanineAlyse.)
Exactly, not bread-bread, but more like a pound cake. I think next time
with this recipe I will combine Bob's beat the heck outta it, along with
Barb's refrigerate overnight before slicing. Thanks all...;-)

Picky ~JA~
 
[email protected] (JeanineAlyse in 29 Palms) wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Exactly, not bread-bread, but more like a pound cake. I think next
> time with this recipe I will combine Bob's beat the heck outta it,
> along with Barb's refrigerate overnight before slicing. Thanks
> all...;-)
>

It is a quick bread...The baking soda helps in leavening....The longer
you play with it or it stays outa the oven the denser/flatter it will be.

The baking soda reacts with any acidic ingredients in the recipe; as soon
as the 'wet' and the 'dry' are combined...waiting too long will ensure
that the baking soda gets spent or used up prior to baking. Leaving you
kinda flatish.

If messing with the oil didn't help...try adding a egg. The egg will act
as a binder, 'holding' things together.

And if the egg doesn't help, call the 'Quick Bread' a 'Muffin' and cook
it in muffin tins. Breaking into pieces, when cut, is a sign of a quality
muffin.

--
Starchless in Manitoba.
Type 2 Diabetic 1AC 5.6mmol or 101mg/dl
 
Hi: I would cut the sugar by half and I would reduce the butter t one-half
cup.

Joe
"Melba's Jammin'" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (JeanineAlyse in 29 Palms) wrote:
>
>> I have now made, on different days, seven loaves of a very delicious
>> desert bread, but it's after baking and cooled character does not allow
>> other than a breaking up slicing...much like a cake may. From the
>> following ingredients, what could be changed so that the after-bake
>> consistency holds together best?
>>
>> Makes two loaves:
>> 1-1/2 cups granulated sugar
>> 1 cup softened butter
>> 4 large eggs
>> 1 cup sour cream
>> 1/2 cup orange juice
>> 2 Tbsp. micro-grated orange peel
>> 3-1/2 cups all purpose flour
>> 1-1/2 tsp. baking powder
>> 1 tsp. baking soda
>> 2 cups chopped walnuts
>>
>> Toasted/heated 3/4" slices are spread with a bit of the mixture of 1/2
>> cup butter, 1 Tbsp. powdered sugar, 3 Tbsp. orange marmalade. All
>> tastes wonderful, though I do decrease the orange peel to one fat Tbsp.,
>> but it's the slicing that is my problem. And ideas?
>>
>> Picky ~JA~
>>
>
> Well, damn, JeanineAlyse -- I don't know what will solve your problem,
> but I'm going to make some!! Gotta get to the store today, anyway --
> gonna be colder than a witch's whatever here for the next week. We're
> just back from Lost Wages and I need to run my vehickle some.
> --
> -Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> More on 1-4-05
> "I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and say,
> 'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner, performance
> at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (JeanineAlyse in 29 Palms) wrote:

> >SallyW wrote:
> >It's a quick bread, so it does not require
> >kneading, and the texture will be more
> >like cake than like a yeast bread.
> Bob Pastorio adds....
> >But the OP doesn't *want* it to have a
> >cakelike texture. Beating the batter
> >longer should result in the bread being
> >more like bread. The method I'd
> >recommend would be to put all
> >ingredients together except for the nuts,
> >baking powder, and baking soda, and
> >beat the batter for at least five minutes.
> >Then stir in the leavening ingredients
> >and the nuts and bake.
> Barb Shaller pipes in with,
> >>I don't think she's as concerned about a
> >>cakelike texture as she is about being
> >>able to slice and toast it. You've never
> >>cut a piece of poundcake and toasted
> >>it? I'm thinking that's what she's got in
> >>mind. I do not think she's looking to
> >>have bread bread. :) (Defend me here,
> >>JeanineAlyse.)
> Exactly, not bread-bread, but more like a pound cake. I think next time
> with this recipe I will combine Bob's beat the heck outta it, along with
> Barb's refrigerate overnight before slicing. Thanks all...;-)
>
> Picky ~JA~
>

Sure -- but how was the New Year's Day piggy? I pinged you but you
must've missed it.
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Trip Report and pics added 1-13-05
"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and say,
'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner, performance
at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.
 
>Sure -- but how was the New Year's Day
>piggy? I pinged you but you must've
>missed it---Barb
Sorry not to have told before now, as I do remember your asking that I
report.

The piggy was brined in that huge cooler with, among other seasonings
and "stuff," kosher salt orange peels and brown sugar for the day up to
the midnight roast begin. It was stuffed with various amounts of
onions, celery, carrots, two whole chickens and a goose. Son suspected
thqat this first time try of brining may aid in tenderness and juicy,
and while stuffing it he learned that brining caused the piggy to (in
his words) get soft. Hah! This piggy was rotisserie-roasted in near to
half the time usual, dripping it's internal juices onto the smoldering
woods for a wonderful and teasing aroma while self-basteing. So when it
started splitting open and the goose fell onto the woody fire, Son
snatched it out in time enough for it not to burn much. He said
although he'd never tasted roast goose before, it was a wondrous
delight, and the piggie was fork-tender and to die for.

All of the pig party peeps claim this roasting was the very best ever,
and all were pleased that most all of their side-dish contributions were
timed well for the ready. Son has determined that with this "best ever"
pig roasting there could not be a topper, so next year he will begin
another venture with something different, and probably a mix of
feathered and not. I suggested he do a couple of ostrich, to which he
said, "Mom, you know that sounds perfect!" He's figuring for one
stuffed ostrich, along with some other stuffed birds/animals to be
roasted shishkabob style, with well netted veggie seasoning bags tightly
jammed between each for his own "side dish" contribution.

Who'd a guessed? My no time for women keepings, skin diving, snow
boarding, rifle and pistol collector crack-shot son becoming a depended
on party chef each new year! He's already started a conning process by
which he hopes to have me there next New Years, for making what he
fcalls "Mom's two-foot-torts" on site for everyone there as well.

Picky ~JA~
 
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