[BREAKING NEWS] Pantani is dead

[Amit]

"B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Amit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > This is very sad. Pantani was the most exciting rider to watch until his exclusion from the '99
> > Giro. But the dark side of that was that most likley those great performances were drug
> > performances.
>
> And who's performances weren't/aren't given what we've seen in the sport since Festina '98?

Brian,

I can't say that I disagree.

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <[email protected]>,
pedalchick <[email protected]> wrote:

Nicely put, pc, though I suppose I might quibble over the Zulle reference. I respect the fact
that he actually -did- admit to doing dope and did serve his suspension before he came back.
Quite unlike BooHoo Virenque (who blubbed when they were thrown out of the Tour, and denied for
years until he was on the stand in court, where he finally copped to it, then blubbed again) or
his cohort, Pascal Herve', who's never admitted it. On top of the deaths of Zanoli, Jimenez,
Zanette, Salanson and Sermon, this really does make for a **** year for cycling.

--
tanx, Howard

"We're not laughing -at- you, we're laughing -with- you..) "But... I'm not
laughing???" Happiness

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

 

[Richard Longwoo]

Well said.

"pedalchick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've been thinking lately, since I heard reports of Pantani's depression and alleged weight gain,
> how much I would like to tell him how I admired his style. Few riders had the kind of panache that
> he did, and I'm sorry, but it wasn't all drugs. You don't make a rider like that out of nothing
> with a bunch of EPO. I wanted to tell him how I take back all the things I said to people about
> how he was just a dirty doper and his victories meant nothing. I wanted to tell him I finally got
> a chance to watch the 1998 Giro and Tour and he was awesome. I wanted him to come back and add
> some style to the grand tours. Everyone rides so conservatively and predictably it seems. Mayo was
> a small light in the darkness, but nothing like Pantani, who would (like in 2000?) seem to be
> about to get dropped, claw his way back to the group and then attack again and again with such
> ferocity until he got away to win (remember Ventoux?). Finally, in last year's Giro d'Italia, his
> ride on that one steep ass stage where he paced Garzelli up the most brutal part of the climb was
> sheer brilliance. They guy had been through the wringer, constantly hounded, under incessant
> litigation, but he managed enough class to pull out one big ride. Pantani was a brilliant
> champion, and a spectacular competitor who didn't deserve half of the **** he got. He was used as
> an example while probably not being any dirtier than any of his competitors - he was left to hang
> out to dry while others who were caught red-handed were given raps on the hands and set free to
> race again (Casagrande? Zulle?). Had he just said "sure, I took some EPO. I won't do it again" he
> would have been fine. Who knows, maybe he was really innocent and clean? They never did prove
> anything except a high hematocrit. ****, I have a naturally high hematocrit, but I still suck. I
> wish I could have told the guy all this. I wish someone could have given him his pride back. For
> all the entertainment the man provided to cycling fans, he could at least have been treated with
> some respect by the sporting authorities and journalists - and all you bastards on
> r.b.r, too. Instead, he died alone and embittered to the sport.
>
> R.I.P. Mr. Pantani...
>
>
>
> --

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> > What is that a sign of? EPO dependency.
> >
> > The body has its own natural checks and balances - when people cycle a
> drug
> > for too long, the body shuts down the natural production of whatever it
is
> > the drug mimics (bodybuilders (shriveled testicles) and testosterone) (heroin users and
> > naturally occuring opiates).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Asswipe,
>
>

Dumbass -

I don't.

However, the body does have it's own checks and balances. Why would the body treat an excess of EPO
differently than an excess of testosterone (slow down production)?

 

[pedalchick]

Originally posted by Kurgan Gringion
"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> > What is that a sign of? EPO dependency.
> >
> > The body has its own natural checks and balances - when people cycle a
> drug
> > for too long, the body shuts down the natural production of whatever it
is
> > the drug mimics (bodybuilders (shriveled testicles) and testosterone) (heroin users and
> > naturally occuring opiates).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Asswipe,
>
>

Dumbass -

I don't.

However, the body does have it's own checks and balances. Why would the body treat an excess of EPO
differently than an excess of testosterone (slow down production)?

Chang, I doubt your original statement that doctors gave Pantani EPO to counteract fluctuating hematocrit. What doctor would treat an acute condition like that with a drug that takes weeks to take effect? Why wouldn't they just give him a pint of blood, huh?
I don't think that story is true... What are your sources?

 

[pedalchick]

QUOTE]Originally posted by Howard Kveck
In article <[email protected]>,
pedalchick <[email protected]> wrote:

Nicely put, pc, though I suppose I might quibble over the Zulle reference. I respect the fact
that he actually -did- admit to doing dope and did serve his suspension before he came back.
Quite unlike BooHoo Virenque (who blubbed when they were thrown out of the Tour, and denied for
years until he was on the stand in court, where he finally copped to it, then blubbed again) or
his cohort, Pascal Herve', who's never admitted it. On top of the deaths of Zanoli, Jimenez,
Zanette, Salanson and Sermon, this really does make for a **** year for cycling.
[/QUOTE]
My point was that some riders were champions (Zulle) and got caught or admitted to taking dope and got their sentence (what was his, 6 months? tap on the wrist) and then were left alone. These guys have gotten new contracts and are free to race without being taken to court by their country's sporting authorities. You forget when you look at the bespectacled one that his victories were drug victories and now he's just another rider - probably because he's so darn cute and nerdy with those coke bottle glasses... and Casagrande? Well, he certainly doesn't have looks to cover his guilt, but maybe it's just because he keeps his mouth shut and flies under the radar that he's left alone. Pantani certainly never flew under anyone's radar, and that was probably his downfall.

 

[George Chapman]

> Nicely put, pc, though I suppose I might quibble over the Zulle reference. I respect the fact
> that he actually -did- admit to doing dope and did serve his suspension before he came back.
> Quite unlike BooHoo Virenque (who blubbed when they were thrown out of the Tour, and denied for
> years until he was on the stand in court, where he finally copped to it, then blubbed again) or
> his cohort, Pascal Herve', who's never admitted it. On top of the deaths of Zanoli, Jimenez,
> Zanette, Salanson and Sermon, this really does make for a **** year for cycling.
>
> My point was that some riders were champions (Zulle) and got caught or admitted to taking dope and
> got their sentence (what was his, 6 months? tap on the wrist) and then were left alone. These guys
> have gotten new contracts and are free to race without being taken to court by their country's
> sporting authorities. You forget when you look at the bespectacled one that his victories were
> drug victories and now he's just another rider - probably because he's so darn cute and nerdy with
> those coke bottle glasses... and Casagrande? Well, he certainly doesn't have looks to cover his
> guilt, but maybe it's just because he keeps his mouth shut and flies under the radar that he's
> left alone. Pantani certainly never flew under anyone's radar, and that was probably his downfall.
>

His problem isn't that he lived above the radar. It's that he lives in Italy. Not Switzerland.
Not France.

No disrepect on the nation of Italy (in fact the absolute opposite), but the judicial system takes a
much more serious view to the manipulation of sporting results through drugs (sporting fraud) then
anybody else.

Zulle admitted his guilt which was admiralble. Virenque didn't, but now he is still as popular as
previously because the French public forgave him and the judicial system let bygones be bygones.

Pantani has also been as popular with the public, but has had the authorities breathing down his
neck (and the media looking for a story) whenever they could. That's the difference.

It's enough to make anyone upset. And mixed with Pantani's unique character it probably reached the
point of no return.

RIP Marco

George

PS. Zulle is cute?! Maybe I should re-appraise my choice of spectacles.....

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <8P2Yb.60772$%[email protected]>,
pedalchick <[email protected]> wrote:

> My point was that some riders were champions (Zulle) and got caught or admitted to taking dope
> and got their sentence (what was his, 6months? tap on the wrist) and then were left alone.
> These guys have gotten new contracts and are free to race without being taken to court by
> their country's sporting authorities. You forget when you look at the bespectacled one that
> his victories were drug victories and now he's just another rider - probably because he's so
> darn cute and nerdy with those coke bottle glasses... and Casagrande? Well, he certainly
> doesn't have looks to cover his guilt, but maybe it's just because he keeps his mouth shut and
> flies under the radar that he's left alone. Pantani certainly never flew under anyone's radar,
> and that was probably his downfall.
> --

OK, now I see what you meant - that makes sense. (Of course, Casagrande's 'Fists of Fury'
trick in the Giro in '02 wasn't exactly flying under the radar - and look at the results of
that one...)

--
tanx, Howard

"We're not laughing -at- you, we're laughing -with- you..) "But... I'm not
laughing???" Happiness

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

 

[Didier A. Depir]

leif_ericson <[email protected]> wrote:
> Didn't Merckx once test 'positive' in the Giro? How come nowone hates him?

Because I liked the french fries and the light cigarettes he was advertising.

Didier

--
Didier A Depireux [email protected] [email protected] 685 W.Baltimore Str
http://neurobiology.umaryland.edu/depireux.htm Anatomy and Neurobiology Phone: 410-706-1272 (off)
University of Maryland -1273 (lab) Baltimore MD 21201 USA Fax: 1-410-706-2512