Breezer Uptown8 for a Chicago year round bike commute?

[Andre Jute]

On Feb 4, 7:08 pm, "Clive George" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Andre Jute" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:e9dcfce3-f66b-4451-8db8-d4a87984883b@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> >But both my bikes, including the Gazelle which
> >> >has a stand of decent length, have fallen over onto the pedals and
> >> >required new cranks on the left side, the older Gazelle several times;
> >> >the Trek has also fallen over to the right.
>
> >> New cranks?!!
>
> >> Are they made of cheese or something?
>
> >Aluminium. A heavy enough bike has no trouble bending then so they
> >interfere with the frame. Even if that doesn't happen, they can fall
> >on the pedal hard enough to ruin the thread; I have one of those
> >downstairs, I think, if you would like a photograph. Surely you don't
> >still have steel cranks on your bike, Clive? Or are you so la di da
> >that you have titanium cranks?
>
> I've got perfectly normal square-taper ally cranks. And I've never bust or
> bent one, despite hitting pedals quite hard - on an MTB tandem, so not
> exactly lightweight once you've got the riders weight included. (the pedals
> on that bike bear the scars).
>
> I've not heard of massive numbers of cranks failing in that way from the MTB
> world, and I'd expect them to be giving the thing a harder time than just
> falling on it.
>
> So are your cranks just substandard? Would it be worth getting something of
> higher quality?
>
> clive

I just looked at the crank with the stripped thread. The brand or type
name is VisionM and it claims to have been cold forged in France; it
also seems on visual inspection to be of much more than adequate beam
strengh, being a V design in three dimensions. It's clear to me that
they cold forged the thing, then cut the thread and then didn't give
it any further treatment. I went to enormous trouble to get an exact
replacement which went the same way, then got something the kid on the
phone at a mailorder dealer recommended, which bent when the bike fell
over on it, another recommendation which (understandably) bent when
bike and I fell on it very hard indeed, and then I went to the generic
type my LBS keeps for a while, and took them off unscathed when I
simplified matters by standardizing on Shimano Nexus cranks and
chainwheels. The Shimano ones appear thin but I've had no trouble with
them whatsoever; they're also the best looking of the lost.

HTH.

Andre Jute
What? Me worry? -- Alfred E. Neumann

 

[Andre Jute]

On Feb 4, 4:16 am, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Clive George wrote:
> > "Andre Jute" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:f74b2d77-61c5-49a2-9e76-10940f89fb49@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> BTW, when I said I was planning a stainless bike, I wasn't thinking of
> >> Reynolds 953 but something for which lugs can be found, Metax or
> >> Noblex, both obsolete but available if you look hard enough. Just
> >> about the time I decided to prove the automatic groupset first and
> >> make up my mind about the style and geometry before ordering a frame,
> >> a Franco-Italian stainless steel was announced for bikes, with the
> >> promise of lugs to come.
>
> > What's wrong with TIG welding for a stainless frame? Why the need to
> > wait for lugs when you can get the frame you want built now?
>
> I would suppose since the advent of high-strength, weldable steels, the
> only real reason for lugs is aesthetic preference.
>
> Of course some of us differ greatly in this matter of taste; the only
> lugged frame I ever really liked the look of was the Kabuki Submariner.
> I do not care at all for fancy, sculpted lugs (Mies van der Rohe was right).

I was thinking of stubby, pointed, utility lugs, just in stainless as
originally supplied with Noblex nirosta bike sets by Poppe.

I wouldn't mind fancy lugs of my own design but value my knuckles too
much to start filing intricacies into stainless steel; the alternative
to getting precisely the design I want, laser-cutting, seems somehow
pointless, counterproductive to the concept of fancy lugs as
craftsman's labour of love, as on those classic Hetchins bikes. But
even a simple shortpoint lug can be polished, selectively painted,
lined on the end, and so on.

If you think Mies van der Rohe is an example for a cyclist, you'd
better read up on him a bit. (Hey, Fogel, wake up. Gofer Google and
fetch a couple of hostile bios of Mies van der Rohe.) Ludwig Mies was
a round hedonist and a master-bullshitter; he housed the richest
corporations in the world in worker-housing of steel and glass with
zero elegance, and made them think it was art. I doubt he ever rode a
bicycle after he could afford a car; his Barcelona chair by itself is
enough to tell you he would never have grasped the reducing principle
which defines the function of the bicycle emotionally or
intellectually. There was a time I could have asked whether he cycled,
because I knew quite a few people who in turn had known the Bauhaus
leaders, who generally privately despised Mies as a poseur either
before or after he added the grand Dutch "van der" (because the German
equivalent of "von" was by law forbidden to him) to his name. This is
ironic as the Bauhaus was led by and riddled with genuine aristocrats
playing at being socialist; the reason they couldn't openly despise
the social-climbing but politically ultra-correct Ludwig Mies was that
he was by birth and training a gennie proterian, the son of a
stoneworker who even served an apprenticeship with his father.

Though I too in stuff for newspapers shorthand functionality as
Bauhaus, for truly functional design with legs it is more satisfying
to look to Dutch design.

> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> "And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
> - A. Derleth

Andre Jute
Impedance is futile, you will be simulated into the triode of the
Borg. -- Robert Casey

 

[Andre Jute]

Tom Sherman wrote:
> Andre Jute wrote:
> > ...
> > BTW, I just can't agree to your preference for small wheels in your
> > list elsewhere in this thread. I think 622 wheels a must for a town
> > bike unless all the roads are newly surfaced; it rolls better over
> > unevenness than small wheels and tyres....
> >
> For me there would be several reasons to prefer small wheels:
>
> 1 - I already have a supply of ISO 406-mm tires, tubes and rims, since
> that is what all my recumbents use (fully or in part).
> 2 - The physically smaller bicycle is easier to haul up three flights of
> stairs and to fit in a 3 m by 3.3 m office.
> 3 - Hub brakes work better on small wheels.
> 4 - Smaller wheels are considerably stronger for a given rim section and
> spoke count.
> 5 - Last and far from least, small wheel bicycles are kawaii, large
> wheel bicycles are decidedly not.

What is kawaii in the redneck anglo vernacular, please? -- AJ

> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> "And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
> - A. Derleth

 

[Chalo]

Tom Sherman wrote:
>
> Why do so many of these posts give the impression that Shimano is the
> only company to make internally geared hubs (in the sub Rohloff category)?

I prefer the rugged geartrain and higher efficiency of SRAM gearhubs,
but there's no getting around the categorical superiority of having
all the shift gear inside the dropouts-- especially for an urban
warrior bike. SRAM's clickbox-plus-guard arrangement is even hokier
than a derailleur if that's possible. I'm constantly plucking mine
with the heel of my shoe-- and that's on a bike with 18" chainstays.

> The SRAM P5 with integral i-Brake would likely be a fine choice for
> Jay's Chicagoland commute.

From what I hear about Chicago's uninspiring topography, a three-speed
would also do just fine. It sounds like he'd be pretty well set with
an upwind gear, a downwind gear, and a no-wind gear.

SRAM's three-speeds (formerly Sachs Torpedo 3) have a lineage almost
as long as Sturmey Archer's, but without the reputation for false
neutrals and other unwelcome idiosyncrasies. Both these three-speeds
are freer-running than a derailleur system or a 7-speed hub.

Chalo

 

[Tom Sherman]

Andre Jute wrote:
> On Feb 4, 4:16 am, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> Clive George wrote:
>>> "Andre Jute" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:f74b2d77-61c5-49a2-9e76-10940f89fb49@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>> BTW, when I said I was planning a stainless bike, I wasn't thinking of
>>>> Reynolds 953 but something for which lugs can be found, Metax or
>>>> Noblex, both obsolete but available if you look hard enough. Just
>>>> about the time I decided to prove the automatic groupset first and
>>>> make up my mind about the style and geometry before ordering a frame,
>>>> a Franco-Italian stainless steel was announced for bikes, with the
>>>> promise of lugs to come.
>>> What's wrong with TIG welding for a stainless frame? Why the need to
>>> wait for lugs when you can get the frame you want built now?
>> I would suppose since the advent of high-strength, weldable steels, the
>> only real reason for lugs is aesthetic preference.
>>
>> Of course some of us differ greatly in this matter of taste; the only
>> lugged frame I ever really liked the look of was the Kabuki Submariner.
>> I do not care at all for fancy, sculpted lugs (Mies van der Rohe was right).
>
> I was thinking of stubby, pointed, utility lugs, just in stainless as
> originally supplied with Noblex nirosta bike sets by Poppe.
>
> I wouldn't mind fancy lugs of my own design but value my knuckles too
> much to start filing intricacies into stainless steel; the alternative
> to getting precisely the design I want, laser-cutting, seems somehow
> pointless, counterproductive to the concept of fancy lugs as
> craftsman's labour of love, as on those classic Hetchins bikes. But
> even a simple shortpoint lug can be polished, selectively painted,
> lined on the end, and so on.
>
> If you think Mies van der Rohe is an example for a cyclist, you'd
> better read up on him a bit. (Hey, Fogel, wake up. Gofer Google and
> fetch a couple of hostile bios of Mies van der Rohe.) Ludwig Mies was
> a round hedonist and a master-bullshitter; he housed the richest
> corporations in the world in worker-housing of steel and glass with
> zero elegance, and made them think it was art. I doubt he ever rode a
> bicycle after he could afford a car; his Barcelona chair by itself is
> enough to tell you he would never have grasped the reducing principle
> which defines the function of the bicycle emotionally or
> intellectually. There was a time I could have asked whether he cycled,
> because I knew quite a few people who in turn had known the Bauhaus
> leaders, who generally privately despised Mies as a poseur either
> before or after he added the grand Dutch "van der" (because the German
> equivalent of "von" was by law forbidden to him) to his name. This is
> ironic as the Bauhaus was led by and riddled with genuine aristocrats
> playing at being socialist; the reason they couldn't openly despise
> the social-climbing but politically ultra-correct Ludwig Mies was that
> he was by birth and training a gennie proterian, the son of a
> stoneworker who even served an apprenticeship with his father....
>
I was judging the man solely by his legacy in Chicago, where I have seen
first-hand many of the buildings he designed.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

 

[Tom Sherman]

Andre Jute wrote:
>
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Andre Jute wrote:
>>> ...
>>> BTW, I just can't agree to your preference for small wheels in your
>>> list elsewhere in this thread. I think 622 wheels a must for a town
>>> bike unless all the roads are newly surfaced; it rolls better over
>>> unevenness than small wheels and tyres....
>> >
>> For me there would be several reasons to prefer small wheels:
>>
>> 1 - I already have a supply of ISO 406-mm tires, tubes and rims, since
>> that is what all my recumbents use (fully or in part).
>> 2 - The physically smaller bicycle is easier to haul up three flights of
>> stairs and to fit in a 3 m by 3.3 m office.
>> 3 - Hub brakes work better on small wheels.
>> 4 - Smaller wheels are considerably stronger for a given rim section and
>> spoke count.
>> 5 - Last and far from least, small wheel bicycles are kawaii, large
>> wheel bicycles are decidedly not.
>
> What is kawaii in the redneck anglo vernacular, please? -- AJ
>
Kawaii is the Japanese conception of cuteness. For example, my favorite
bicycle is kawaii: <http://www.flickr.com/photos/19704682@N08/1940445068/>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

 

[Tom Sherman]

Andre Jute wrote:
> ...
> Superficial reasons are the best. If you're going to feel a prat on a
> bike, then it isn't for you. Perhaps I'll wait until I see the photo
> of Tom on the CF RANS before I decide whether it is dignified...
>
I do not do dignified well:
<http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/Sherman.htm>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

 

[Tom Sherman]

Andre Jute wrote:
> On Feb 4, 7:08 pm, "Clive George" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Andre Jute" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:e9dcfce3-f66b-4451-8db8-d4a87984883b@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>>> But both my bikes, including the Gazelle which
>>>>> has a stand of decent length, have fallen over onto the pedals and
>>>>> required new cranks on the left side, the older Gazelle several times;
>>>>> the Trek has also fallen over to the right.
>>>> New cranks?!!
>>>> Are they made of cheese or something?
>>> Aluminium. A heavy enough bike has no trouble bending then so they
>>> interfere with the frame. Even if that doesn't happen, they can fall
>>> on the pedal hard enough to ruin the thread; I have one of those
>>> downstairs, I think, if you would like a photograph. Surely you don't
>>> still have steel cranks on your bike, Clive? Or are you so la di da
>>> that you have titanium cranks?
>> I've got perfectly normal square-taper ally cranks. And I've never bust or
>> bent one, despite hitting pedals quite hard - on an MTB tandem, so not
>> exactly lightweight once you've got the riders weight included. (the pedals
>> on that bike bear the scars).
>>
>> I've not heard of massive numbers of cranks failing in that way from the MTB
>> world, and I'd expect them to be giving the thing a harder time than just
>> falling on it.
>>
>> So are your cranks just substandard? Would it be worth getting something of
>> higher quality?
>>
>> clive
>
> I just looked at the crank with the stripped thread. The brand or type
> name is VisionM and it claims to have been cold forged in France; it
> also seems on visual inspection to be of much more than adequate beam
> strengh, being a V design in three dimensions. It's clear to me that
> they cold forged the thing, then cut the thread and then didn't give
> it any further treatment. I went to enormous trouble to get an exact
> replacement which went the same way, then got something the kid on the
> phone at a mailorder dealer recommended, which bent when the bike fell
> over on it, another recommendation which (understandably) bent when
> bike and I fell on it very hard indeed, and then I went to the generic
> type my LBS keeps for a while, and took them off unscathed when I
> simplified matters by standardizing on Shimano Nexus cranks and
> chainwheels. The Shimano ones appear thin but I've had no trouble with
> them whatsoever; they're also the best looking of the lost.
>
Sounds like you need some of the tubular steel cranks that Chalo Colina
uses. If they hold up to a 2.05 meter tall, 150-170 kgf rider, they
should survive a tip over.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

 

[Jay]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ff95a1cf-c6cf-47a9-aace-04c2b120d6f4@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 4, 3:26 am, "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote:

> It looks like the Electra Amsterdam Royal 8 will be OK! RTC as the dealer
> is
> a plus. I can't find any mention of frame size, but I'm sure they make one
> big enough.
>

What makes you think they come in different sizes?

The bars might be close if you are tall. Very upright.

Joseph
>
I am sad, and confused, to hear your caution. Do you mean, the handlebars
might be close to my knees, as I pedal? I had not even thought of this
possibility! I was already quite bonded with this bike!

I was hoping to get this 'Dutch bike' online, sometime this winter.

Exasperated J.

 

[Tom Sherman]

Chalo Colina wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Why do so many of these posts give the impression that Shimano is the
>> only company to make internally geared hubs (in the sub Rohloff category)?
>
> I prefer the rugged geartrain and higher efficiency of SRAM gearhubs,
> but there's no getting around the categorical superiority of having
> all the shift gear inside the dropouts-- especially for an urban
> warrior bike. SRAM's clickbox-plus-guard arrangement is even hokier
> than a derailleur if that's possible. I'm constantly plucking mine
> with the heel of my shoe-- and that's on a bike with 18" chainstays.
>
Yes, but what size are your feet? Would that be an issue for someone
with size 43 feet?

My understanding is that the click-box makes wheel changes much easier.

>> The SRAM P5 with integral i-Brake would likely be a fine choice for
>> Jay's Chicagoland commute.
>
> From what I hear about Chicago's uninspiring topography, a three-speed
> would also do just fine. It sounds like he'd be pretty well set with
> an upwind gear, a downwind gear, and a no-wind gear.
>
> SRAM's three-speeds (formerly Sachs Torpedo 3) have a lineage almost
> as long as Sturmey Archer's, but without the reputation for false
> neutrals and other unwelcome idiosyncrasies. Both these three-speeds
> are freer-running than a derailleur system or a 7-speed hub.
>
I have an older, Torpedo based SRAM Spectro 3x7 hub that has never given
any problems, even with a 30/28 tooth low gear, other than a broken
indicator chain.

I have heard that the newer DualDrive has different internals - would
this also mean that the SRAM P3 is different from the Sachs Torpedo?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

 

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <[email protected]>,
Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:

> Andre Jute wrote:
> >
> > Tom Sherman wrote:
> >> Andre Jute wrote:
> >>> ...
> >>> BTW, I just can't agree to your preference for small wheels in your
> >>> list elsewhere in this thread. I think 622 wheels a must for a town
> >>> bike unless all the roads are newly surfaced; it rolls better over
> >>> unevenness than small wheels and tyres....
> >> >
> >> For me there would be several reasons to prefer small wheels:
> >>
> >> 1 - I already have a supply of ISO 406-mm tires, tubes and rims, since
> >> that is what all my recumbents use (fully or in part).
> >> 2 - The physically smaller bicycle is easier to haul up three flights of
> >> stairs and to fit in a 3 m by 3.3 m office.
> >> 3 - Hub brakes work better on small wheels.
> >> 4 - Smaller wheels are considerably stronger for a given rim section and
> >> spoke count.
> >> 5 - Last and far from least, small wheel bicycles are kawaii, large
> >> wheel bicycles are decidedly not.
> >
> > What is kawaii in the redneck anglo vernacular, please? -- AJ
> >
> Kawaii is the Japanese conception of cuteness. For example, my favorite
> bicycle is kawaii: <http://www.flickr.com/photos/19704682@N08/1940445068/>.

I don't a bicycle that looks like Kaneda's motorcycle has much chance of
being considered kawaii.

<http://images.animelab.com/gallery/Akira/Images/07.jpg>
<http://www.collectiondx.com/node/286>

Some fairly archetypal example of kawaii:

<http://cathefofa.weblogger.terra.com.br/img/kawaii.jpg>
<http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/948/Tiny+Cute+Hamster/>

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

 

[Tom Sherman]

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Andre Jute wrote:
>>> ...
>>> What is kawaii in the redneck anglo vernacular, please? -- AJ
>>>
>> Kawaii is the Japanese conception of cuteness. For example, my favorite
>> bicycle is kawaii: <http://www.flickr.com/photos/19704682@N08/1940445068/>.
>
> I don't a bicycle that looks like Kaneda's motorcycle has much chance of
> being considered kawaii.
>
> <http://images.animelab.com/gallery/Akira/Images/07.jpg>
> <http://www.collectiondx.com/node/286>
>
butbutbut, my Sunset looks nothing like that. I have had plenty of women
who otherwise would have completely ignored me tell my how cute it is.

> Some fairly archetypal example of kawaii:
>
> <http://cathefofa.weblogger.terra.com.br/img/kawaii.jpg>
> <http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/948/Tiny+Cute+Hamster/>
>
Here is a Japanese market bicycle that is kawaii:
<http://www.cycleurope.co.jp/2008/novt.html>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

 

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <[email protected]>,
Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Andre Jute wrote:
> >>> ...
> >>> What is kawaii in the redneck anglo vernacular, please? -- AJ
> >>>
> >> Kawaii is the Japanese conception of cuteness. For example, my favorite
> >> bicycle is kawaii: <http://www.flickr.com/photos/19704682@N08/1940445068/>.
> >
> > I don't a bicycle that looks like Kaneda's motorcycle has much chance of
> > being considered kawaii.
> >
> > <http://images.animelab.com/gallery/Akira/Images/07.jpg>
> > <http://www.collectiondx.com/node/286>
> >
> butbutbut, my Sunset looks nothing like that. I have had plenty of women
> who otherwise would have completely ignored me tell my how cute it is.

Were they Japanese?

> > Some fairly archetypal example of kawaii:
> >
> > <http://cathefofa.weblogger.terra.com.br/img/kawaii.jpg>
> > <http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/948/Tiny+Cute+Hamster/>
> >
> Here is a Japanese market bicycle that is kawaii:
> <http://www.cycleurope.co.jp/2008/novt.html>.

Finally, something we can all agree on.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

 

[Tom Sherman]

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Andre Jute wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>> What is kawaii in the redneck anglo vernacular, please? -- AJ
>>>>>
>>>> Kawaii is the Japanese conception of cuteness. For example, my favorite
>>>> bicycle is kawaii: <http://www.flickr.com/photos/19704682@N08/1940445068/>.
>>> I don't a bicycle that looks like Kaneda's motorcycle has much chance of
>>> being considered kawaii.
>>>
>>> <http://images.animelab.com/gallery/Akira/Images/07.jpg>
>>> <http://www.collectiondx.com/node/286>
>>>
>> butbutbut, my Sunset looks nothing like that. I have had plenty of women
>> who otherwise would have completely ignored me tell my how cute it is.
>
> Were they Japanese?
>
While appearances could be deceiving, I would say not.

>>> Some fairly archetypal example of kawaii:
>>>
>>> <http://cathefofa.weblogger.terra.com.br/img/kawaii.jpg>
>>> <http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/948/Tiny+Cute+Hamster/>
>>>
>> Here is a Japanese market bicycle that is kawaii:
>> <http://www.cycleurope.co.jp/2008/novt.html>.
>
> Finally, something we can all agree on.
>
Too bad they do not offer metallic red paint.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

 

[Andre Jute]

On Feb 5, 1:00 am, "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:ff95a1cf-c6cf-47a9-aace-04c2b120d6f4@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 4, 3:26 am, "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > It looks like the Electra Amsterdam Royal 8 will be OK! RTC as the dealer
> > is
> > a plus. I can't find any mention of frame size, but I'm sure they make one
> > big enough.
>
> What makes you think they come in different sizes?
>
> The bars might be close if you are tall. Very upright.
>
> Joseph
>
> I am sad, and confused, to hear your caution. Do you mean, the handlebars
> might be close to my knees, as I pedal? I had not even thought of this
> possibility! I was already quite bonded with this bike!
>
> I was hoping to get this 'Dutch bike' online, sometime this winter.
>
> Exasperated J.

Joseph is rubbing you, Jay. A bike like that comes in several sizes.
You will need a 57 or up to a 61in bike, depending on your inseam and
how big they actually build them. The angled seat tube makes me think
they build them big, with the angle to provide standover space for
smaller people.

In any event, even if there is only one size, you merely pull the
seatpost and the quill out further to give your legs reach to the
pedals and to raise the handlebars appropriately. The geometry of
these bikes is such that your knees will never interfere with the
handlebars. If you run out of adjustment, put in a long reach seatpost
and a quill extender The extender is the black pipe above the top of
the head tube on my Trek here:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE Trek Navigator L700 Smover.html
-- on the second photo on the page the extender isn't there and the
handlebars are on a very low setting (you'd be bending a long way
forward), on the third photo the extender is fitted and the handlebars
cranked over for sitting upright.

A big ali bike isn't scaled like a butted steel frame to be just stiff
enough for sizy and weight. An ali bike is monstrously stiff at any
size, so it is almost irrelevant, as it wouldn't be on a weight-pared
steel bike, which size you start with as long as the seatpost and
quill can be extended enough, and the stem has enough rotation, to
give you precisely the ergonomics you want. If they can't make the
bike comfortable for you in the shop, walk away.

Furthermore, people progressively like to sit more upright, so they
find the top tube pretty long; Gazelle bike are routinely set up by
dealers for delivery with the handlebars cranked right over to the
rider so he doesn't need to lean forward. I think a city bike would
have to be grotesquely undersize and with pretty short adjustable
parts for you to run any risk of your knees interfering with the
handlebars. Joseph must be thinking of ****-up head-down racing bikes.
He clearly doesn't understand that with the laid-back geometry comes a
longer wheelbase than one would find on a nervous racer.

As a guide, my Gazelle is 57mm and my Trek 56cm, both bought a little
short to give me more standover clearance and also because several
specialists told me to take a size short for better controllability in
traffic -- and I'm glad I did. (The Trek doesn' t even have a size
between 56cm and 61cm! )

In any event, if you're in such a tearing hurry to have a new bike,
before you bond any further with that Electra Amsterdam Royal 8, call
the dealer and find out if he has stock or when he will have stock,
and check what he tells you with the factory, when you can also ask
about the sizes. Last year Electra announced the bike and a bit later
they were supposedly taking pre-orders. That sound awfully close to
short stock and a waiting list to me but these situations change very
quickly.

HTH.

Andre Jute
I'll be calm when I discover DHL didn't wreck my new bike before I
even got it

 

[DI]

"Andre Jute" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:0fd45fed-88d2-4ec7-b3d8-3ede0e5c97a6@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 5, 1:00 am, "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>
Joseph is rubbing you, Jay. A bike like that comes in several sizes.
You will need a 57 or up to a 61in bike, depending on your inseam and
how big they actually build them. The angled seat tube makes me think
they build them big, with the angle to provide standover space for
smaller people.

I
As a guide, my Gazelle is 57mm and my Trek 56cm, both bought a little
short to give me more standover clearance and also because several
specialists told me to take a size short for better controllability in
traffic -- and I'm glad I did. (The Trek doesn' t even have a size
between 56cm and 61cm! )

Andre Jute
I'll be calm when I discover DHL didn't wreck my new bike before I
even got it

You dumb ****, get your units of measurement right 57mm and a 56cm, and 57
to 61 in, you are a tall person if you ride a 57 to 61 in bike, or very
short if you ride a 57mm bike

 

[Andre Jute]

On Feb 5, 3:01 am, "DI" <[email protected]> blustered:

> You dumb ****, get your units of  measurement right 57mm and a 56cm, and57
> to 61 in, you are a tall person if  you ride a 57 to 61 in bike, or very
> short if you ride a 57mm bike

I have a white rat in my lab named DL who rides a 57mm bike. Any
relation?

 

[Andre Jute]

Just straightening out the metrics.

On Feb 5, 2:52 am, Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Feb 5, 1:00 am, "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >news:ff95a1cf-c6cf-47a9-aace-04c2b120d6f4@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...
> > On Feb 4, 3:26 am, "Jay" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > It looks like the Electra Amsterdam Royal 8 will be OK! RTC as the dealer
> > > is
> > > a plus. I can't find any mention of frame size, but I'm sure they makeone
> > > big enough.
>
> > What makes you think they come in different sizes?
>
> > The bars might be close if you are tall. Very upright.
>
> > Joseph
>
> > I am sad, and confused, to hear your caution. Do you mean, the handlebars
> > might be close to my knees, as I pedal? I had not even thought of this
> > possibility! I was already quite bonded with this bike!
>
> > I was hoping to get this 'Dutch bike' online, sometime this winter.
>
> > Exasperated J.
>
> Joseph is rubbing you, Jay. A bike like that comes in several sizes.
> You will need a 57 or up to a 61cm bike, depending on your inseam and
> how big they actually build them. The angled seat tube makes me think
> they build them big, with the angle to provide standover space for
> smaller people.
>
> In any event, even if there is only one size, you merely pull the
> seatpost and the quill out further to give your legs reach to the
> pedals and to raise the handlebars appropriately. The geometry of
> these bikes is such that your knees will never interfere with the
> handlebars. If you run out of adjustment, put in a long reach seatpost
> and a quill extender The extender is the black pipe above the top of
> the head tube on my Trek here:http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE Trek Navigator L700%...
> -- on the second photo on the page the extender isn't there and the
> handlebars are on a very low setting (you'd be bending a long way
> forward), on the third photo the extender is fitted and the handlebars
> cranked over for sitting upright.
>
> A big ali bike isn't scaled like a butted steel frame to be just stiff
> enough for sizy and weight. An ali bike is monstrously stiff at any
> size, so it is almost irrelevant, as it wouldn't be on a weight-pared
> steel bike, which size you start with as long as the seatpost and
> quill can be extended enough, and the stem has enough rotation, to
> give you precisely the ergonomics you want. If they can't make the
> bike comfortable for you in the shop, walk away.
>
> Furthermore, people progressively like to sit more upright, so they
> find the top tube pretty long; Gazelle bike are routinely set up by
> dealers for delivery with the handlebars cranked right over to the
> rider so he doesn't need to lean forward. I think a city bike would
> have to be grotesquely undersize and with pretty short adjustable
> parts for you to run any risk of your knees interfering with the
> handlebars. Joseph must be thinking of ****-up head-down racing bikes.
> He clearly doesn't understand that with the laid-back geometry comes a
> longer wheelbase than one would find on a nervous racer.
>
> As a guide,  my Gazelle is 57cm and my Trek 56cm, both bought a little
> short to give me more standover clearance and also because several
> specialists told me to take a size short for better controllability in
> traffic -- and I'm glad I did. (The Trek doesn' t even have a size
> between 56cm and 61cm! )
>
> In any event, if you're in such a tearing hurry to have a new bike,
> before you bond any further with that Electra Amsterdam Royal 8, call
> the dealer and find out if he has stock or when he will have stock,
> and check what he tells you with the factory, when you can also ask
> about the sizes. Last year Electra announced the bike and a bit later
> they were supposedly taking pre-orders. That sound awfully close to
> short stock and a waiting list to me but these situations change very
> quickly.
>
> HTH.
>
> Andre Jute
> I'll be calm when I discover DHL didn't wreck my new bike before I
> even got it