brewer's yeast

"Moosh🙂" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:22:49 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

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<[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
net.com...

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"Looks like Mark De Toad is now up to date:-)"

Was always so, but your original responce was
incomplete and

misleading.

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As originally presented and as restated in the web
sorce, brewer's

yeast

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is the product of beer making. Some in the health food
industry have conflated taht identification with
wanting any yeast product to be included under a new
tent of their own making and use for marketing.
Brewer's yeast is a set of specific species, two of
them as I recall,

and

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any other yeast is not by definition. The product of
beer making has

the

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dead cells of that used to ferment the beer. It is like
calling

anything

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brewed in a cup "tea" when there is one specific plant
species that is

tea

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and all othrs are infusions of various plant materials.
Glad you are

now

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on board on this and now realise how you have been
misled by marketing intrests quite apart from
biological accuracy and completeness.

Your lack of understanding concerning beer yeast is
breath taking.

Where? I didn't see any.

Blind?

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I count 104 different types of currently available
varieties and at least 5 separate species.

And?

"And" what? He says 2 yeasts and the book says at least 5
species with 104 varieties. Duh.

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I'd be interested in whether these, given the same
substrate, would be distinguishable one from the other. I
certainly couldn't tell.

That you can't tell isn't a surprise. In all likelyhood, you
don't know or care which yeast is used to make your beer. In
my region of the planet, there are quite a few
microbreweries and even more wineries.

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Granted two species provide the bulk of varieties.
Nonetheless, each strain makes a different beer flavor.

I doubt that. I'd say the hops, amount of alcohol produced
(main difference between yeast varieties) and the malted
barley variety and recipe would all be much more important
contributers to a beer's taste.

The Beer book says it important. If it was of no effect
on beer their wouldn't be all the various strains
available from the beer making supply companies. Recall
the 104 number.

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Each one would produce a "yeast sludge" (as you called
it) with a somewhat different nutrient profile.

Not worth worrying about I would guess. Depends a lot on
what the yeast has to live on.

That you don't value it is a given. Whether, it importance
to me or others is another issue. Understand, I am
interested less in the beer and more in food yeast
production.

You sound like af generic beer drinker which also explains
your torus shaped fat deposit that encirles your waist;-)

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I haven't been mislead by marketing as my comments are
not based on it.

Sounds like you've been swallowing the hype from the home
brew shoppes. 🙂

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That is just an effort of yours to smear others.

Which others.

Me to start with. Any who disagree with your family mantra.

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You make Mooshe and Gohde look like the fully enlighten
beings.

Garbage. I don't put you and me in the same league as
Mark. Gohde is beyond redemption at the opposite end of
the spectrum.

Ok Ok. I'll grant Gohde is over the edge and has been for
years. As to Mark he is as toxic as Gohde if more lucid. And
as Mark is more lucid, he is more toxic.

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(Make that check out to cash will you Mark 🙂

It will be dipped in toxics, you'd better require payment
thru Paypal.

You pose as Mooshe's man, but your reasoning is the same as
that of Mooshe the elderly female. It makes me think there
is but one Mooshe.

"Larry Hoover" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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><[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
>net.com...

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>Thus the culture can be of a strain of brewers yeast
>or bakers yeast when yeast is grown specifically for
>yeast. The Red Star bakers yeast strain is commonly
>used raise nutritional/food yeast. I quite like the
>flavor of this yeast. On the other hand, torula yeast
>( whatever that is) tastes quite awful IMO.

I think I've got this attributed right (otherwise, it
belongs to Mr.

Noyes),

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but torula yeast is often a byproduct of paper-making,
growing on the extracted pulp sugars which are a major
constituent of black liquor. I

don't

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know if that's got anything to do with the taste or not,
or if it's an attribute of the genus itself.

Lar

It belongs to me, William Noyes.

I doubt, Mark De Toad would use nutritional yeast.

"Moosh🙂" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 00:19:06 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

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"Moosh🙂" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:08:27 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

>
><[email hidden]> wrote in message -"]news:[email hidden]-
>net.com...
>>
>> From a health food retaler on the web:
>>
>> "Available as a powder, flakes, or tablets, brewer's
>> yeast is a slightly bitter-tasting ingredient that's
>> used in brewing beer. It's also a by-product of beer-
>> making.
>
>I've been told that by-product yeast is quite bitter
>and I assume bound for use in animal feed.

I think I've recounted this here before, but a friend
of mine used to dump brewery sludge on his market
garden until the health authority banned it for
containing heavy metals. Can't quite remember which
ones, but cadmium seems to ring a bell.

Perhaps it was the following? There was a cobalt additive
that was banned. It was poisoning beer drinkers and was
banned in the 70's as I dimly recall.

I just heard that recently, about cobalt and beer....
can't remember... short term memory shot from too much
beer or cobalt 🙂

Too much beer is bad for the memory while red wine is
apparently more benign and even healthful in some ways.

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I wouldn't like cadmium as that is nasty stuff.

That was "itai itai" (it hurts, it hurts) disease in
Japan, wasn't it?

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>> The live cells in brewer's yeast are also destroyed
>> during the

brewing

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>> process, but the dead cells still have nutrient
>> value. The terms brewer's yeast and nutritional
>> yeast are sometimes used interchangeably, but they
>> are not exactly the same. Basically, nutritional
>> yeast is any yeast grown for the specific purpose of

being

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>> a food supplement, Conboy explains. While it might
>> be a brewer's yeast, it could also be yeast from
>> another species."
>
>
>Thus the culture can be of a strain of brewers yeast
>or bakers yeast when yeast is grown specifically for
>yeast. The Red Star bakers yeast strain is commonly
>used raise nutritional/food yeast. I quite like the
>flavor of this yeast. On the other hand, torula yeast
>( whatever that is) tastes quite awful IMO.
>
>Conboy? What a name!! It sounds like a Usenet name;-)
>
>Looks like Mark De Toad is now up to date:-)
>
>end of comments............William A. Noyes

Good onyer Noisy you tell 'em mate 🙂

BTW, being a tight bassted, I pinch my wife's baking
yeast to brew the odd flagon of wine.

Here in the States a packet of good wine yeast costs less
than a dollar which is enough for a large carboy a 5 +
gallon gas jug.......they quite large.

Yes, but when you only have baker's yeast in the house....
Works fine to my crass palate.

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Last batch failed coz I overdid the metabisulfite 🙁

I did that myself.

Shows it works, doesn't it.

I was referring to poisoning a batch of wine with an
excess of sulfite. I've never used baking yeast. Though
I've skipped the sulfites and the yeast and have gotten
decent results.

When I was in high school, one of the other guys was brewing
his own fire water with sugar and baking yeast.

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Still we get jolly good wine here for less than two
bucks per litre. I like this Lambrusco Red at the
moment. Slips down real smoooooth 🙂

Here five dollar will you on some fairly good wine though
a 10 or 15 dollar bottle will likely be better. I
understand much of the price is tax.

Here the wine industry being a newish industry bringing in
much export revenue is given a tax break compared with any
other alcohol. We now have a huge glut of red grapes.

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Making it is vastly cheaper. It starts to make sense to
cook with wine when one makes it.

I regard cooking with wine rather wasteful. That's because
you lose the only redeeming feature, the ethanol.

I must like wine better than you.

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I drink to get [censored]. I'm either honest or totally
misguided.

My habits are pretty moderate. I keep the wine down to three
times a week with food often cheese and nuts.

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My sil is a wine connoiss ,,, buff, and some of the
expensive prize-winning drops she has got me to taste are
worse than some of the $2 litres in chateau cardboard I
have swallowed. I generally drink half wine (chablis) and
half orange juice.

When drinking wine the serving temperture is extremely
important as even 10 degree difference can make wine taste
good or bad.

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 03:01:25 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

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Too much beer is bad for the memory while red wine is
apparently more benign and even healthful in some ways.

Wine industry [censored]... Some say that a little alcohol of
any sort is epidemiologically "good for you".

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> Last batch failed coz I overdid the metabisulfite 🙁

I did that myself.

Shows it works, doesn't it.

I was referring to poisoning a batch of wine with an excess
of sulfite.

So was I.

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I've never used baking yeast. Though I've skipped the
sulfites and the yeast and have gotten decent results.

Lucky.

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When I was in high school, one of the other guys was
brewing his own fire water with sugar and baking yeast.

So what did the yeast live on apart from energy?

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> Still we get jolly good wine here for less than two
> bucks per litre. I like this Lambrusco Red at the
> moment. Slips down real smoooooth 🙂

Here five dollar will you on some fairly good wine
though a 10 or 15 dollar bottle will likely be better. I
understand much of the price is tax.

Here the wine industry being a newish industry bringing
in much export revenue is given a tax break compared with
any other alcohol. We now have a huge glut of red grapes.

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Making it is vastly cheaper. It starts to make sense to
cook with wine when one makes it.

I regard cooking with wine rather wasteful. That's
because you lose the only redeeming feature, the ethanol.

I must like wine better than you.

I'm sure most anyone does. Or so they say.

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I drink to get [censored]. I'm either honest or totally
misguided.

My habits are pretty moderate. I keep the wine down to
three times a week with food often cheese and nuts.

Whatever floats your boat.

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My sil is a wine connoiss ,,, buff, and some of the
expensive prize-winning drops she has got me to taste are
worse than some of the $2 litres in chateau cardboard I
have swallowed. I generally drink half wine (chablis) and
half orange juice.

When drinking wine the serving temperture is extremely
important as even 10 degree difference can make wine taste
good or bad.

So they say. I've never found it to make much difference
except bad wines chilled don't taste so bad.

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:53:57 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

nutritional yeast.

Is this akin to "nutritional steak" or "nutritional rice"?
Enquiring minds wish to know....

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:52:43 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

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Your lack of understanding concerning beer yeast is
breath taking.

Where? I didn't see any.

Blind?

Must be. And you can't point it out either?

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I count 104 different types of currently available
varieties and at least 5 separate species.

And?

"And" what? He says 2 yeasts and the book says at least 5
species with 104 varieties. Duh.

Yep. Which book?

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I'd be interested in whether these, given the same
substrate, would be distinguishable one from the other. I
certainly couldn't tell.

That you can't tell isn't a surprise. In all
likelyhood, you don't know or care which yeast is used
to make your beer.

Nope, I don't like beer, so that's real handy.

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In my region of the planet, there are quite a few
microbreweries and even more wineries.

Pretty common worldwide, I would guess, especially when
folks have too much money for their own good.

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Granted two species provide the bulk of varieties.
Nonetheless, each strain makes a different beer flavor.

I doubt that. I'd say the hops, amount of alcohol
produced (main difference between yeast varieties) and
the malted barley variety and recipe would all be much
more important contributers to a beer's taste.

The Beer book says it important. If it was of no effect
on beer their wouldn't be all the various strains
available from the beer making supply companies. Recall
the 104 number.

So every one of these claimed 104 varieties could be always
distinguished by a blind tasting test?

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Each one would produce a "yeast sludge" (as you called
it) with a somewhat different nutrient profile.

Not worth worrying about I would guess. Depends a lot on
what the yeast has to live on.

That you don't value it is a given.

Value what? I like vegemite and an occasional beer on
a hot day.

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Whether, it importance to me or others is another issue.
Understand, I am interested less in the beer and more in
food yeast production.

Why? Do you like it? Sprinkle it on your steak instead of
fried mushrooms? Mmmmmm Mushies.....

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You sound like af generic beer drinker which also explains
your torus shaped fat deposit that encirles your waist;-)

Funny, I could have sworn I didn't particulary like beer.
Sounds like Noisey is off his meds and resorting to personal
attack again 🙂

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I haven't been mislead by marketing as my comments are
not based on it.

Sounds like you've been swallowing the hype from the home
brew shoppes. 🙂

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That is just an effort of yours to smear others.

Which others.

Me to start with. Any who disagree with your family mantra.

Huh?

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You make Mooshe and Gohde look like the fully enlighten
beings.

Garbage. I don't put you and me in the same league as
Mark. Gohde is beyond redemption at the opposite end of
the spectrum.

Ok Ok. I'll grant Gohde is over the edge and has been for
years. As to Mark he is as toxic as Gohde if more lucid.
And as Mark is more lucid, he is more toxic.

Why? Did he tell you your obsessive, lifelong pillpopping
was silly, like I did?

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(Make that check out to cash will you Mark 🙂

It will be dipped in toxics, you'd better require payment
thru Paypal.

My, you are bitter and twisted...

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You pose as Mooshe's man, but your reasoning is the same as
that of Mooshe the elderly female. It makes me think there
is but one Mooshe.

Yep, that's Noisey when backed into a corner 🙂

"Moosh🙂" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 03:01:25 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

Quoted message said:

Too much beer is bad for the memory while red wine is
apparently more benign and even healthful in some ways.

Wine industry [censored]... Some say that a little alcohol
of any sort is epidemiologically "good for you".

As opposed to drug industry [censored]? Anyway are you so sure
all the research was funded by the wine industry. Now who is
the cynic and disbeliever?

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>> Last batch failed coz I overdid the metabisulfite 🙁
>
>I did that myself.

Shows it works, doesn't it.

I was referring to poisoning a batch of wine with an
excess of sulfite.

So was I.

Quoted message said:

I've never used baking yeast. Though I've skipped the
sulfites and the yeast and have gotten decent results.

Lucky.

Quoted message said:

When I was in high school, one of the other guys was
brewing his own fire water with sugar and baking yeast.

So what did the yeast live on apart from energy?

Ever hear of Mead? The ethanol containing brewed beverage. A
recipe for Dry Mead.
1.5 kg of light honey
2.75 liters of H20 4 teaspoons of citric acid
3/2 teaspoon of nutrient which is often primarily "yeast
hulls" aka brewer's yeast. .25 tsp grape tannin a package
of wine yeast 1 Campden tablet.....a sulfite source.

Another Mead called Melomel is made with orange juice.

Hmm.... a recipe for real ginger ale. The type with ethanol:-
) I might float both our boats. It is quick; no waiting a
year and half to get finished.

Anyway sugar and baker's yeast should work for a crude
product. That experiment is with your reach, Mooshe. It
would be really cheap and you could float your row boat.

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>> Still we get jolly good wine here for less than two
>> bucks per litre. I like this Lambrusco Red at the
>> moment. Slips down real smoooooth 🙂
>
>Here five dollar will you on some fairly good wine
>though a 10 or 15 dollar bottle will likely be better.
>I understand much of the price is tax.

Here the wine industry being a newish industry bringing
in much export revenue is given a tax break compared
with any other alcohol. We now have a huge glut of red
grapes.

>Making it is vastly cheaper. It starts to make sense
>to cook with wine when one makes it.

I regard cooking with wine rather wasteful. That's
because you lose the only redeeming feature, the
ethanol.

I must like wine better than you.

I'm sure most anyone does. Or so they say.

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Quoted message said:

I drink to get [censored]. I'm either honest or totally
misguided.

My habits are pretty moderate. I keep the wine down to
three times a week with food often cheese and nuts.

Whatever floats your boat.

Go get [censored] Mooshe, please.

Quoted message said:

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Quoted message said:

My sil is a wine connoiss ,,, buff, and some of the
expensive prize-winning drops she has got me to taste
are worse than some of the $2 litres in chateau
cardboard I have swallowed. I generally drink half wine
(chablis) and half orange juice.

When drinking wine the serving temperture is extremely
important as even 10 degree difference can make wine
taste good or bad.

So they say. I've never found it to make much difference
except bad wines chilled don't taste so bad.

Old age has got your taste buds or perhaps you are short on
zinc as a shortage can impair the ability to taste.

Where do you get citric acid?

Skinny
---------------

/snip/

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A recipe for Dry Mead.
1.5 kg of light honey
3.75 liters of H20 4 teaspoons of citric acid
1/2 teaspoon of nutrient which is often primarily "yeast
hulls" aka brewer's yeast. .25 tsp grape tannin a
package of wine yeast 1 Campden tablet.....a sulfite
source.

A wine making and beer making supply shop and brewery. I'd
assume some lemon juice or orange would work though the
issue would be the amount.

"Skinny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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Where do you get citric acid?

Skinny
---------------

/snip/

Quoted message said:

A recipe for Dry Mead.
1.5 kg of light honey
3.75 liters of H20 4 teaspoons of citric acid
1/2 teaspoon of nutrient which is often primarily "yeast
hulls" aka brewer's yeast. .25 tsp grape tannin a
package of wine yeast 1 Campden tablet.....a sulfite
source.

try rec.crafts.winemaking, alt.beer.home-brewing,
rec.crafts.brewing

"Skinny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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Where do you get citric acid?

Skinny
---------------

/snip/

Quoted message said:

A recipe for Dry Mead.
1.5 kg of light honey
3.75 liters of H20 4 teaspoons of citric acid
1/2 teaspoon of nutrient which is often primarily "yeast
hulls" aka brewer's yeast. .25 tsp grape tannin a
package of wine yeast 1 Campden tablet.....a sulfite
source.

"Moosh🙂" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:35:55 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

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It would appear that within the Saccharomyces cerevisiae
species there is a range of traits like in the "genetic"
species that comprises wolves, coyotes, dachshunds,
chows, chichuahuas, Saint Bernard's, and jackals. Indeed,
there maybe a few foxes in the dogpile:-)

Now to find a strain high in folic acid or B-6.

Some other yeasts used to make beer are listed below.

Brettanomyces lambicus Pediococcus cerevisiae Pediococcus
damnosus Pasteur Champagne yeast

What's a ' "genetic" species' ? Enquiring minds want
to know.

Mooshe, you haven't had an enquiring mind in years. That
phrase is the National Enquire's old slogan. It must be what
you read for your news.

Brain fart. Perhaps, I should have said Genus. I was simply
pointing out that even related "critters" can have different
traits. Remember this discussion is about yeasts and their
different strains.

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:50:10 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

Quoted message said:

"Moosh🙂" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 03:01:25 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

Quoted message said:

Too much beer is bad for the memory while red wine is
apparently more benign and even healthful in some ways.

Wine industry [censored]... Some say that a little alcohol
of any sort is epidemiologically "good for you".

As opposed to drug industry [censored]?

Wandering again, Noisey, or does the drug industry your way
moonlight in the vintners art?

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Anyway are you so sure all the research was funded by the
wine industry. Now who is the cynic and disbeliever?

What research? Why bother with that nonsense when you have
good advertising people?

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> >> Last batch failed coz I overdid the metabisulfite
> >> 🙁
> >
> >I did that myself.
>
> Shows it works, doesn't it.

I was referring to poisoning a batch of wine with an
excess of sulfite.

So was I.

Quoted message said:

I've never used baking yeast. Though I've skipped the
sulfites and the yeast and have gotten decent results.

Lucky.

Quoted message said:

When I was in high school, one of the other guys was
brewing his own fire water with sugar and baking yeast.

So what did the yeast live on apart from energy?

Ever hear of Mead? The ethanol containing brewed beverage.
A recipe for Dry Mead.

Yes, but you said "sugar", not honey. Doh! Pay
attention, Noisey.

Quoted message said:

1.5 kg of light honey
3.75 liters of H20 4 teaspoons of citric acid
1/2 teaspoon of nutrient which is often primarily "yeast
hulls" aka brewer's yeast. .25 tsp grape tannin a package
of wine yeast 1 Campden tablet.....a sulfite source.

Another Mead called Melomel is made with orange juice.

Hmm.... a recipe for real ginger ale. The type with ethanol:-
) I might float both our boats. It is quick; no waiting a
year and half to get finished.

Anyway sugar and baker's yeast should work for a
crude product.

Quoted message said:

That experiment is with your reach, Mooshe. It would be
really cheap and you could float your row boat.

And what does the yeast live on. You have supplied
energy only.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

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> >> Still we get jolly good wine here for less than two
> >> bucks per litre. I like this Lambrusco Red at the
> >> moment. Slips down real smoooooth 🙂
> >
> >Here five dollar will you on some fairly good wine
> >though a 10 or 15 dollar bottle will likely be
> >better. I understand much of the price is tax.
>
> Here the wine industry being a newish industry
> bringing in much export revenue is given a tax break
> compared with any other alcohol. We now have a huge
> glut of red grapes.
>
> >Making it is vastly cheaper. It starts to make sense
> >to cook with wine when one makes it.
>
> I regard cooking with wine rather wasteful. That's
> because you lose the only redeeming feature, the
> ethanol.

I must like wine better than you.

I'm sure most anyone does. Or so they say.

Quoted message said:

> I drink to get [censored]. I'm either honest or totally
> misguided.

My habits are pretty moderate. I keep the wine down to
three times a week with food often cheese and nuts.

Whatever floats your boat.

Go get [censored] Mooshe, please.

I do occasionally, but when it pleases *me*.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> My sil is a wine connoiss ,,, buff, and some of the
> expensive prize-winning drops she has got me to taste
> are worse than some of the $2 litres in chateau
> cardboard I have swallowed. I generally drink half
> wine (chablis) and half orange juice.

When drinking wine the serving temperture is extremely
important as even 10 degree difference can make wine
taste good or bad.

So they say. I've never found it to make much difference
except bad wines chilled don't taste so bad.

Old age has got your taste buds or perhaps you are short on
zinc as a shortage can impair the ability to taste.

Snaaaaarf!!!! What a maroon. A mineral for every ailment.
You would have done well in the middle-ages.

"William A. Noyes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Moosh🙂" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:35:55 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

Quoted message said:

It would appear that within the Saccharomyces
cerevisiae species there is a range of traits like
in the "genetic" species that comprises wolves,
coyotes, dachshunds, chows, chichuahuas, Saint
Bernard's, and jackals. Indeed, there maybe a few
foxes in the dogpile:-)

Now to find a strain high in folic acid or B-6.

Some other yeasts used to make beer are listed below.

Brettanomyces lambicus Pediococcus cerevisiae
Pediococcus damnosus Pasteur Champagne yeast

What's a ' "genetic" species' ? Enquiring minds want
to know.

What is a "genetic species", you ask?

Consider the following comments.

"Since they all can interbreed, that brings us back to
our initiao question: What should the scientific name of
these animals be? Are red wolves (Canis rufus), gray
wolves (C. lupus), coyotes (C. latrans), dogs (C.
familiaris), and jackels
(C. mesomelus, C. adustus, C. aureus, C. simemis) all
different species? The fact that they are genetically so
close creates infinite identification problems for
scientists."

Linneaen species are now called "morphological species".
Genetic haven't been understood that long and certainly not
in the 1730's when Carl von Linne devised his system
classing animals and plants.

" In 1982, J.H. Honacki and colleagues suggest that
Linnaeus's name for the do be changed to Canis lupus
familiaris to reflect its evolutionary descent. Not only
did they think the dog descended from the wolf, but given
its similarities to the wolf, they are suggesting that
the dog is not a distinct species, but rather a
subspecies of the wolf." Or to use my two words they are
of the same "genetic species". Species as a practical
matter, often describes animal breeding populations. Take
the dingo, clearly a dog but also clearly could a
species. And the Latin binomial system has wavered. First
it called the dingo as Canis dingo and now it classes the
animal as Canis familiaris dingo.

Now Mooshe, you should be able to infer what I meant when I
said "genetic species" in my illustration concerning yeast
species and subspecies.

Mooshe will go silent or sneer, I suspect.

William A. Noyes

"Moosh🙂" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:50:10 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

Quoted message said:

"Moosh🙂" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 03:01:25 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

>Too much beer is bad for the memory while red wine is
>apparently more benign and even healthful in some
>ways.

Wine industry [censored]... Some say that a little
alcohol of any sort is epidemiologically "good for
you".

As opposed to drug industry [censored]?

Wandering again, Noisey, or does the drug industry your
way moonlight in the vintners art?

We need specifics. Both of us.

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Anyway are you so sure all the research was funded by the
wine industry. Now who is the cynic and disbeliever?

What research? Why bother with that nonsense when you have
good advertising people?

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>> >> Last batch failed coz I overdid the metabisulfite
>> >> 🙁
>> >
>> >I did that myself.
>>
>> Shows it works, doesn't it.
>
>I was referring to poisoning a batch of wine with an
>excess of sulfite.

So was I.

>I've never used baking yeast. Though I've skipped the
>sulfites and the yeast and have gotten decent results.

Lucky.

>When I was in high school, one of the other guys was
>brewing his own fire water with sugar and baking
>yeast.

So what did the yeast live on apart from energy?

Ever hear of Mead? The ethanol containing brewed
beverage. A recipe for Dry Mead.

Yes, but you said "sugar", not honey. Doh! Pay
attention, Noisey.

Water has minerals. The baker's yeast may well have
cannabilized the needed nutrients.

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1.5 kg of light honey
3.75 liters of H20 4 teaspoons of citric acid
1/2 teaspoon of nutrient which is often primarily "yeast
hulls" aka brewer's yeast. .25 tsp grape tannin a
package of wine yeast 1 Campden tablet.....a sulfite
source.

Another Mead called Melomel is made with orange juice.

Hmm.... a recipe for real ginger ale. The type with ethanol:-
) I might float both our boats. It is quick; no waiting a
year and half to get finished.

Anyway sugar and baker's yeast should work for a crude
product.

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That experiment is with your reach, Mooshe. It would be
really cheap and you could float your row boat.

And what does the yeast live on. You have supplied
energy only.

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>> >> Still we get jolly good wine here for less than
>> >> two bucks per

litre.

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>> >> I like this Lambrusco Red at the moment. Slips
>> >> down real smoooooth 🙂
>> >
>> >Here five dollar will you on some fairly good wine
>> >though a 10 or 15 dollar bottle will likely be
>> >better. I understand much of the price is tax.
>>
>> Here the wine industry being a newish industry
>> bringing in much

export

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>> revenue is given a tax break compared with any other
>> alcohol. We now have a huge glut of red grapes.
>>
>> >Making it is vastly cheaper. It starts to make
>> >sense to cook with wine when one makes it.
>>
>> I regard cooking with wine rather wasteful. That's
>> because you lose the only redeeming feature, the
>> ethanol.
>
>I must like wine better than you.

I'm sure most anyone does. Or so they say.

>> I drink to get [censored]. I'm either honest or totally
>> misguided.
>
>My habits are pretty moderate. I keep the wine down to
>three times a week with food often cheese and nuts.

Whatever floats your boat.

Go get [censored] Mooshe, please.

I do occasionally, but when it pleases *me*.

Good. Toast more of those brain cells for me:-)

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>> My sil is a wine connoiss ,,, buff, and some of the
>> expensive prize-winning drops she has got me

to

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>> taste are worse than some of the $2 litres in
>> chateau cardboard I

have

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>> swallowed. I generally drink half wine (chablis) and
>> half orange juice.
>
>When drinking wine the serving temperture is extremely
>important as even 10 degree difference can make wine
>taste good or bad.

So they say. I've never found it to make much
difference except bad wines chilled don't taste so bad.

Old age has got your taste buds or perhaps you are short
on zinc as a shortage can impair the ability to taste.

Snaaaaarf!!!! What a maroon. A mineral for every ailment.
You would have done well in the middle-ages.

Better than living in the dark ages as a monk chanting in
latin "a varied balanced eucaloric grain based diet." as the
answer for all.

The minerals you need are mercury and arsenic. It will cure
your bad humour and loosen the green phlegm;-) And it is the
sovereign cure for syphilis;-) .......

Paracelsus was here.............William A. Noyes

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:21:47 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

Quoted message said:

"Moosh🙂" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:35:55 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

Quoted message said:

It would appear that within the Saccharomyces cerevisiae
species there is a range of traits like in the "genetic"
species that comprises wolves, coyotes, dachshunds,
chows, chichuahuas, Saint Bernard's, and jackals.
Indeed, there maybe a few foxes in the dogpile:-)

Now to find a strain high in folic acid or B-6.

Some other yeasts used to make beer are listed below.

Brettanomyces lambicus Pediococcus cerevisiae
Pediococcus damnosus Pasteur Champagne yeast

What's a ' "genetic" species' ? Enquiring minds want
to know.

Mooshe, you haven't had an enquiring mind in years. That
phrase is the National Enquire's old slogan. It must be
what you read for your news.

Never have I clapped eyes on the "National Enquire".

Quoted message said:

Brain fart. Perhaps, I should have said Genus.

And perhaps not. Dogs are thought to be of the same species.

Quoted message said:

I was simply pointing out that even related "critters" can
have different traits.

If they didn't, they would be the same...

Quoted message said:

Remember this discussion is about yeasts and their
different strains.

And you are using all these other taxa incorrectly? I wonder
why. Too much of their waste product?

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 02:02:38 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

Quoted message said:

"William A. Noyes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Moosh🙂" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:35:55 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

>It would appear that within the Saccharomyces
>cerevisiae species there is a range of traits like
>in the "genetic" species that comprises wolves,
>coyotes, dachshunds, chows, chichuahuas, Saint
>Bernard's, and jackals. Indeed, there maybe a few
>foxes in the dogpile:-)
>
>Now to find a strain high in folic acid or B-6.
>
>Some other yeasts used to make beer are listed below.
>
>Brettanomyces lambicus Pediococcus cerevisiae
>Pediococcus damnosus Pasteur Champagne yeast

What's a ' "genetic" species' ? Enquiring minds want to
know.

What is a "genetic species", you ask?

Stalling for time by repeating the question noted 🙂

Quoted message said:

Consider the following comments.

<snip irrelevant discourse about dogs>

Quoted message said:

Or to use my two words they are of the same "genetic
species". Species as a practical matter, often describes
animal breeding populations.

Does it? And so what? What is a "genetic species"?

Quoted message said:

Take the dingo, clearly a dog but also clearly could
a species.

A member of a species? Your expression is terrible.

Quoted message said:

And the Latin binomial system has wavered. First it called
the dingo as Canis dingo and now it classes the animal as
Canis familiaris dingo.

And this is relevant to a "genetic species?

Quoted message said:

Now Mooshe, you should be able to infer what I meant when I
said "genetic species" in my illustration concerning yeast
species and subspecies.

Nope. Total nonsense! Clear as mud!

Quoted message said:

Mooshe will go silent or sneer, I suspect.

And you as usual prejudge. I ask again, what is a "genetic
species". If you don't know, that's fine, but don't blather
on about dogs like the Rhode Island Red.

"Moosh🙂" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:21:47 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

Quoted message said:

"Moosh🙂" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:35:55 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

>It would appear that within the Saccharomyces
>cerevisiae species there is a range of traits like
>in the "genetic" species that comprises wolves,
>coyotes, dachshunds, chows, chichuahuas, Saint
>Bernard's, and jackals. Indeed, there maybe a few
>foxes in the dogpile:-)
>
>Now to find a strain high in folic acid or B-6.
>
>Some other yeasts used to make beer are listed below.
>
>Brettanomyces lambicus Pediococcus cerevisiae
>Pediococcus damnosus Pasteur Champagne yeast

What's a ' "genetic" species' ? Enquiring minds want to
know.

Mooshe, you haven't had an enquiring mind in years. That
phrase is the National Enquire's old slogan. It must be
what you read for your news.

Never have I clapped eyes on the "National Enquire".

A supermarket tabloid.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Brain fart. Perhaps, I should have said Genus.

And perhaps not. Dogs are thought to be of the same
species.

See the next posting (already posted) under the heading "Re:
brewer's yeast (off topic response just for Mooshe)". For a
somewhat improved comment on the use and meaning of the
classification and term "species".

Quoted message said:

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I was simply pointing out that even related "critters"
can have different traits.

If they didn't, they would be the same...

??

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Remember this discussion is about yeasts and their
different strains.

And you are using all these other taxa incorrectly?

I sure hope so or at least I planning to:-)

Hmmm......signs on an education.....must be mister Mooshe.

Quoted message said:

I wonder why. Too much of their waste product?

Damn right...... at times..

.............William A. Noyes

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 00:26:41 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

Quoted message said:

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Yes, but you said "sugar", not honey. Doh! Pay attention,
Noisey.

Water has minerals.

Almost no potassium, nitrogen and phosphorus Noisey. What
ones had you in mind?

Quoted message said:

The baker's yeast may well have cannabilized the needed
nutrients.

To pick itself up in its own bucket, so to speak?

Very good, Noisey, next you will be proposing perpetual
motion. Oh, sorry, TC has already got dibs on that

Quoted message said:

Good. Toast more of those brain cells for me:-)

Here's to your two braincells, Noisey.

Quoted message said:

Better than living in the dark ages as a monk chanting in
latin "a varied balanced eucaloric grain based diet." as
the answer for all.

Grain based? You must have lost something in the
translation, Noisey.

Quoted message said:

The minerals you need are mercury and arsenic. It will cure
your bad humour

My humour is brill, Noisey. Look how easily I deal with
your idiocy.

Quoted message said:

and loosen the green phlegm;-) And it is the sovereign cure
for syphilis;-) .......

Paracelsus was here.............William A. Noyes

And changed his name to "Noisey"

"Moosh🙂" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 02:02:38 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<[email hidden]> posted:

Quoted message said:

"William A. Noyes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Moosh🙂" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:35:55 -0700, "William A.
> Noyes" <[email hidden]> posted:
>
> >It would appear that within the Saccharomyces
> >cerevisiae species there is a range of traits like
> >in the "genetic" species that comprises wolves,
> >coyotes, dachshunds, chows, chichuahuas, Saint
> >Bernard's, and jackals. Indeed, there maybe a few
> >foxes in the dogpile:-)
> >
> >Now to find a strain high in folic acid or B-6.
> >
> >Some other yeasts used to make beer are listed
> >below.
> >
> >Brettanomyces lambicus Pediococcus cerevisiae
> >Pediococcus damnosus Pasteur Champagne yeast
>
> What's a ' "genetic" species' ? Enquiring minds want
> to know.

What is a "genetic species", you ask?

Stalling for time by repeating the question noted 🙂

For effect....l unless you read really slowly, I wasn't
stalling for more than a few seconds.......

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Consider the following comments.

<snip irrelevant discourse about dogs>

Quoted message said:

Or to use my two words they are of the same "genetic
species". Species as a practical matter, often describes
animal breeding populations.

Does it? And so what? What is a "genetic species"?

As you could have seen in the snipped "irrelvant discourse"
as you just called it that species classification doesn't
refer to the absence of cross fertility. Different species
that are genetically close can sometimes crossbreed even
though classed as of separate species and sometimes even as
of separate genera; hence, some species could be said to be
within the same "genetic species". Since I coined the term,
I get to say what it means:-).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Take the dingo, clearly a dog but also clearly could a
species.

A member of a species? Your expression is terrible.

So. Hang on Mooshe.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And the Latin binomial system has wavered. First it
called the dingo as Canis dingo and now it classes the
animal as Canis familiaris dingo.

And this is relevant to a "genetic species?

It shows that species classification doesn't always refer to
full range of the genetic pool available in theory or in
practice to plants, animals, or microorganisms.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now Mooshe, you should be able to infer what I meant when
I said "genetic species" in my illustration concerning
yeast species and subspecies.

Nope. Total nonsense! Clear as mud!

Clearly among various dogs breeds, wolves, dingoes, coyotes
there are different different traits we human either exploit
or are at least are aware. In the case of yeast strains of
even in the same species, the differences will be more
metabolic in nature and the yeast hulls of said strains
should have a range of nutrient values which one might hope
to exploit when growing yeast as a food supplement. For
example, as source of more pyridoxine, pantothenate, folinic
acid, a higher levels some specific amino acid, perhaps any
of a number of valuable quinones and so on.

You make these concepts so hard for yourself. You are making
mole hill in a mountain.

Quoted message said:

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Mooshe will go silent or sneer, I suspect.

And you as usual prejudge.

Prejudging is a useful device in discussion. Anyway, you do
go on to sneer in the next sentence. So clearly I was dead
on in my judgement. he he

Quoted message said:

I ask again, what is a "genetic species". If you don't
know, that's fine, but don't blather on about dogs like
the Rhode Island Red.

Mooshe I've now explained what I meant by "genetic species"
and even explained the point on interest to
me. And I find it odd that you so interested as you aren't
interested in food supplementation or innovation.

Perhaps we should take the argument to a sci.bio newsgroup
and see what the resident posters say;-)

<Snipped > the trading of insults

Mooshe claims baker's yeast won't ferment a solution of
sucrose in tap water to ethanol.

OK Mooshe I'll do it. I am pretty sure I've tested the
viablity of bakers yeasts by adding it to a sugars solution
and it has foamed up which indicates rapid yeast activity.
So lets see if we get some Ethanol.