Brisbane - Cyclist tells of road-rage beating

[SteveA]

My younger brother used to live in Brisbane.

So do I!

He is bigger than me, has a beard, "number 1 clipper" haircut all over

Not too sure if I'm bigger than you - wider no doubt! And my hair currently would not require much alteration in order to become a flat top.

and used to ride a big black 1952 Harley Panhead he restored.

I ride a Bug Pronto.

He never got **** from anyone on the road.

I do. Like the woman who came from behind me to overtake me, cut me off, then told me "You were sitting in my blind spot!". The trick with women around the 40 mark is to call them 'Grandma'. They're pretty sensitive about their age... hehrhrr!

His trick was that he looked like a bikie even though he wasn't.

Do you think I should get a harley, or just pretend by wearing lots of leather and plopping a dirty, loose slapper on the back of my scooter? Maybe people will stop hassling me then. Hey, Paulie works with a couple of slapper type chicks! Paulie, can you ask if one of your co-workers wants to be my Harley Sl*t?

LotteBum

Hey Lotte

you sure you're not my little brother? - he used to live out Brown's Plains way when he was in Brisbane

SteveA

 

[LotteBum]

Peka wrote:

I hope you're one of the scooter riders who knows that road rash is bad, and wears appropriate gear

I wear appropriate gear. Whatever work clothes I'm wearing (slacks and a shirt), plus a scarf and a denim jacket.

Just get some boots with titanium toe sliders - they leave nice marks on paintwork. Maybe Shimano should make some SPD shoes with titanium sliders for cyclists who commute

I wear my Patrick bowling shoes when I ride my scooter. They're comfy.

Do I pass the test?

LotteBum

 

[Tamyka Bell]

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>
> In aus.bicycle on Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:18:52 +1000
> Tamyka Bell <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > When the police contacted the offender re my road rage incident, he
> > lied. If he was dead, he couldn't lie.
>
> And so you are on a murder charge, trying to prove that he attacked you
> and you were in immediate danger of your life, and that you were unable
> to do anything but kill, that is you didn't disable then kill when no
> longer threatened, and you had no way to run away or otherwise avoid
> killing.
>
> good luck.
>
> There will still be bicycles when you get out.
>
> Zebee

Zebee, you're always such a negative nelly. My job is to kill people.
How does that spice it up?

Tam

 

[TimC]

On 2005-09-21, SteveA (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> On the bike, I have been abused but never been subject to real road
> rage.
>
> I think it has something to do with the fact that 'road ragers' are
> fundamentally cowards, like most perpetrators of domestic violence.
> They only attack those that are smaller or weaker than them. So if
> they are in a car or 4WD they will run a bike off the road, but their
> road rage would not see them taking on a semi trailer.

And I've been physically abused twice in the past year.

Sigh, where's the 'roids?

--
TimC
A new verb was accidently created during a discussion about KDE 3 and Debian.
It was said that KDE 3 will sid soon. -- Debian Weekly News Jan 14,2003

 

[Terry Collins]

Zebee Johnstone wrote:

> Hmm.. and what exactly will you tell the jury?

Self-defense. I mean lets face it, a motorist out of their vehicle in
those circumstance is going to have a hard time claiming that they were
not aggressive. Fighting for you life is always a good angle.

Actually, the first problem is that the police have to prove the case
beyound a "reasonable doubt".

It works wonders in a jury if you point out that their job isn't to find
out who dun it, but to decide if they'd be happy being convicted on the
same evidence. {


> And if you do knock'em down and their head hits the kerb, and they die,
> what then? Looking forward to 5 years for manslaughter are we?

Probably not if it is your first time, unless you have a legal aid
solicitor, or are in the habit of having punch ups everywhere.

 

[Resound]

"Peka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
>
> LotteBum Wrote:
>> Do you think I should get a harley, or just pretend by wearing lots of
>> leather and plopping a dirty, loose slapper on the back of my scooter?
>> Maybe people will stop hassling me thenI hope you're one of the scooter
>> riders who knows that road rash is bad,
> and wears appropriate gear
>
> Just get some boots with titanium toe sliders - they leave nice marks
> on paintwork. Maybe Shimano should make some SPD shoes with titanium
> sliders for cyclists who commute
>
>
> --
> Peka
>

Or just mount a file blade on the outside edge

 

[Resound]

"TimC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2005-09-21, SteveA (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>> On the bike, I have been abused but never been subject to real road
>> rage.
>>
>> I think it has something to do with the fact that 'road ragers' are
>> fundamentally cowards, like most perpetrators of domestic violence.
>> They only attack those that are smaller or weaker than them. So if
>> they are in a car or 4WD they will run a bike off the road, but their
>> road rage would not see them taking on a semi trailer.
>
> And I've been physically abused twice in the past year.
>
> Sigh, where's the 'roids?
>
> --
> TimC
> A new verb was accidently created during a discussion about KDE 3 and
> Debian.
> It was said that KDE 3 will sid soon. -- Debian Weekly News Jan 14,2003

There could be something to that...I'm not tall, but I tend to carry a bit
of muscle bulk, even though I've done nothing to encourage it (on the upper
body, anyway). I wonder how I'd fare if I one one of those skinny hill
climbing types.

 

[Peka]

Hmm.. and what exactly will you tell the jury?

And if you do knock'em down and their head hits the kerb, and they die,
what then? Looking forward to 5 years for manslaughter are we?

There wouldn't be a jury, coz I have no intention of killing anyone. I well aware of the hypothetical 'head hits the kurb and they die' situation, and I've practised plenty of techniques which can teach someone a lesson with very little risk of death.

Reasonable force? What isn't reasonable when you fear for your life? I'm on a bicycle, some knob has just got out of his car to assault me, after already verbally abusing me, I have no idea if he has weapons in his car, is of sound mind, etc etc. It's pretty reasonable to fear for one's life in such circumstances.

BTW - the bouncer who hit David Hookes was acquitted of manslaughter, so at least one precedent has been set.

 

[Resound]

"Terry Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:4330e811$0$13315$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au...
> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>
>> Hmm.. and what exactly will you tell the jury?
>
> Self-defense. I mean lets face it, a motorist out of their vehicle in
> those circumstance is going to have a hard time claiming that they were
> not aggressive. Fighting for you life is always a good angle.
>
> Actually, the first problem is that the police have to prove the case
> beyound a "reasonable doubt".
>
> It works wonders in a jury if you point out that their job isn't to find
> out who dun it, but to decide if they'd be happy being convicted on the
> same evidence. {
>
>
>> And if you do knock'em down and their head hits the kerb, and they die,
>> what then? Looking forward to 5 years for manslaughter are we?
>
> Probably not if it is your first time, unless you have a legal aid
> solicitor, or are in the habit of having punch ups everywhere.

Well I'd be screwed then...no way I can afford a solicitor myself.

 

[dave]

Resound wrote:
> "TimC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>On 2005-09-21, SteveA (aka Bruce)
>> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>>
>>>On the bike, I have been abused but never been subject to real road
>>>rage.
>>>
>>>I think it has something to do with the fact that 'road ragers' are
>>>fundamentally cowards, like most perpetrators of domestic violence.
>>>They only attack those that are smaller or weaker than them. So if
>>>they are in a car or 4WD they will run a bike off the road, but their
>>>road rage would not see them taking on a semi trailer.
>>
>>And I've been physically abused twice in the past year.
>>
>>Sigh, where's the 'roids?
>>
>>--
>>TimC
>>A new verb was accidently created during a discussion about KDE 3 and
>>Debian.
>>It was said that KDE 3 will sid soon. -- Debian Weekly News Jan 14,2003
>
>
> There could be something to that...I'm not tall, but I tend to carry a bit
> of muscle bulk, even though I've done nothing to encourage it (on the upper
> body, anyway). I wonder how I'd fare if I one one of those skinny hill
> climbing types.
>
>
Oh I,m a skinny runt. People sometimes have a go at me. Suckers

 

[Tamyka Bell]

LotteBum wrote:
>
> My younger brother used to live in Brisbane.
>
> So do I!
>
> He is bigger than me, has a beard, "number 1 clipper" haircut all over
>
> Not too sure if I'm bigger than you - wider no doubt! And my hair
> currently would not require much alteration in order to become a flat
> top.
>
> and used to ride a big black 1952 Harley Panhead he restored.
>
> I ride a Bug Pronto.
>
> He never got **** from anyone on the road.
>
> I do. Like the woman who came from behind me to overtake me, cut me
> off, then told me "You were sitting in my blind spot!". The trick with
> women around the 40 mark is to call them 'Grandma'. They're pretty
> sensitive about their age... hehrhrr!
>
> His trick was that he looked like a bikie even though he wasn't.
>
> Do you think I should get a harley, or just pretend by wearing lots of
> leather and plopping a dirty, loose slapper on the back of my scooter?
> Maybe people will stop hassling me then. Hey, Paulie works with a
> couple of slapper type chicks! Paulie, can you ask if one of your
> co-workers wants to be my Harley Sl*t?

*jealous*

Tam

 

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:07:12 +1000
Peka <[email protected]> wrote:
> Reasonable force? What isn't reasonable when you fear for your life?
> I'm on a bicycle, some knob has just got out of his car to assault me,
> after already verbally abusing me, I have no idea if he has weapons in
> his car, is of sound mind, etc etc. It's pretty reasonable to fear for
> one's life in such circumstances.

"So can you tell the jury exactly why you didn't ride that bike out of
there? That you stood there in fear of your life until he got close
enough, and you didn't even *run*, you attacked him? Ladies and
gentlemen of the jury, do you find this at all credible?"

Zebee

 

[Tamyka Bell]

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>
> In aus.bicycle on Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:07:12 +1000
> Peka <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Reasonable force? What isn't reasonable when you fear for your life?
> > I'm on a bicycle, some knob has just got out of his car to assault me,
> > after already verbally abusing me, I have no idea if he has weapons in
> > his car, is of sound mind, etc etc. It's pretty reasonable to fear for
> > one's life in such circumstances.
>
> "So can you tell the jury exactly why you didn't ride that bike out of
> there? That you stood there in fear of your life until he got close
> enough, and you didn't even *run*, you attacked him? Ladies and
> gentlemen of the jury, do you find this at all credible?"

"So can you tell the jury exactly why you didn't run away? Why you
didn't run from the man you thought intended to rape you? That you stood
there in fear of your life until he got close enough, and you didn't
even *run*, you just stood there in a short skirt? Ladies and gentlement
of the jury, do you find this at all credible?"

Yes, lawyers can spin a lot of ****. We all know that. Are you a lawyer
or do you just watch too much TV?

Tam

 

[dave]

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In aus.bicycle on Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:07:12 +1000
> Peka <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Reasonable force? What isn't reasonable when you fear for your life?
>>I'm on a bicycle, some knob has just got out of his car to assault me,
>>after already verbally abusing me, I have no idea if he has weapons in
>>his car, is of sound mind, etc etc. It's pretty reasonable to fear for
>>one's life in such circumstances.
>
>
> "So can you tell the jury exactly why you didn't ride that bike out of
> there? That you stood there in fear of your life until he got close
> enough, and you didn't even *run*, you attacked him? Ladies and
> gentlemen of the jury, do you find this at all credible?"
>
> Zebee

I were panic stricken. frozen with fear. Oh the horror.

I dunno what happened.. its all a blank, WHen I came too his brains
were all over my boots.

Yep reasonable doubt.. no worries.

Less reasonable is a professional bouncer and former boxing champion
following a middle aged bloke down the road and throwing a punch at him
as a result of which he died. In that one the jury found reasonable
doubt. His defence was that he was acting in self defence. Which may
even be true.

Far less credible is the instance where a bloke fired 6 rounds from a
pistol into his assailient then borrowed another pistol and fired again.
Oddly the 7 times wounded assailent died. No charges were laid. Oh
wait.. that was a copper.

 

[Peka]

"So can you tell the jury exactly why you didn't run away? Why you
didn't run from the man you thought intended to rape you? That you stood
there in fear of your life until he got close enough, and you didn't
even *run*, you just stood there in a short skirt? Ladies and gentlement
of the jury, do you find this at all credible?"

So you're saying Matthew Taylor deserved to get punched in the head 4 times, because he didn't get on his bike and ride away? That he should have known (beyond reasonable doubt?) the guy in the Hilux was going to start throwing punches? In other words, Matthew Taylor should have got off his bike, and starting punching Mr Hilux-man as a pre-emptive strike?

Have you ever actually been in a confrontation that turned physical? You generally don't get to choose when and where it happens, unless you're the one looking for trouble. You can try and avoid it but sometimes (very rarely in my experience) you can't.

 

[SteveA]

So you're saying Matthew Taylor deserved to get punched in the head 4 times, because he didn't get on his bike and ride away? That he should have known (beyond reasonable doubt?) the guy in the Hilux was going to start throwing punches? In other words, Matthew Taylor should have got off his bike, and starting punching Mr Hilux-man as a pre-emptive strike?

Have you ever actually been in a confrontation that turned physical? You generally don't get to choose when and where it happens, unless you're the one looking for trouble. You can try and avoid it but sometimes (very rarely in my experience) you can't.

The law in Australia is that self defence is only a defence if there was no way the person claiming self defence could escape. That is, the law says that if you are threatened and have the option of running away instead of using force, you should run away. It does not lessen the original aggressor's crime of assault etc.

The main case on this involved an altercation in a hardware store between a customer and a store guy. The law will also apply a reasonable person test to this.

If a cyclist saw a motorist advancing towards him with a clear intention to whack him (eg swinging a piece of pipe menacingly) and chose to pick up a broken bottle off the road to defend himself instead of getting on his bike and pedalling the other way - NOT self defence.

If the cyclist only became aware that the motorist was intending to whack him (eg NOT carrying a weapon, not looking menacing) at a point where it was not possible to escape, a plea of self defence might work.

SteveA

 

[Resound]

>>
>> There could be something to that...I'm not tall, but I tend to carry a
>> bit of muscle bulk, even though I've done nothing to encourage it (on the
>> upper body, anyway). I wonder how I'd fare if I one one of those skinny
>> hill climbing types.
> Oh I,m a skinny runt. People sometimes have a go at me. Suckers

Yeah, you're probably significantly more dangerous than I am...I tend to
walk away from confrontations, so I suck at them.

 

[TimC]

On 2005-09-21, Resound (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> "Terry Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:4330e811$0$13315$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au...
>> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>>> And if you do knock'em down and their head hits the kerb, and they die,
>>> what then? Looking forward to 5 years for manslaughter are we?
>>
>> Probably not if it is your first time, unless you have a legal aid
>> solicitor, or are in the habit of having punch ups everywhere.
>
> Well I'd be screwed then...no way I can afford a solicitor myself.

We should form a pact to help out fellow a.bers in legal trouble
involving the bike. Because I'd need help too

--
TimC
So y'know, when the girl octopus slaps the boy octopus for being too
forward, he could say it wasn't his fault, the arm just kind of did its
own thing. -- Kasatka in AFAFDA

 

[SteveA]

On 2005-09-21, Resound (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> "Terry Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:4330e811$0$13315$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au...
>> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>>> And if you do knock'em down and their head hits the kerb, and they die,
>>> what then? Looking forward to 5 years for manslaughter are we?
>>
>> Probably not if it is your first time, unless you have a legal aid
>> solicitor, or are in the habit of having punch ups everywhere.
>
> Well I'd be screwed then...no way I can afford a solicitor myself.

We should form a pact to help out fellow a.bers in legal trouble
involving the bike. Because I'd need help too

--
TimC
So y'know, when the girl octopus slaps the boy octopus for being too
forward, he could say it wasn't his fault, the arm just kind of did its
own thing. -- Kasatka in AFAFDA

There must be a few cyclist lawyers around. I know a few in Perth and I have a barrister mate in Melbourne who is a cyclist. I suspect there are even a few who are cyclist lawyer posters on this group.

SteveA

 

[BrettM]

SteveA <[email protected]> wrote
in news:[email protected]:

>
> Peka Wrote:
>> Traditional martial arts is not hostile, and is not
>> 'fighting'. It is self defence, and can be VERY effective.
>> I speak from experience having trained in Karate for
>> 12yrs. I am by no means an aggressive or violent person,
>> but I look forward to the day that Hilux driver (or any
>> other brain dead motorist) tries the same on me - he will
>> be in for a very rude shock as I will be quite happy to
>> make an example of such a person (ie. he will be lucky not
>> to get a trip to hospital). I'm sure SPD cleats would
>> leave quite an impression on someone's face
> I have experienced one incident of true road rage when I
> was in a car and the 'accused' tried to run me off the road
> in his car.
>
> On the bike, I have been abused but never been subject to
> real road rage.
>
> I think it has something to do with the fact that 'road
> ragers' are fundamentally cowards, like most perpetrators
> of domestic violence. They only attack those that are
> smaller or weaker than them. So if they are in a car or
> 4WD they will run a bike off the road, but their road rage
> would not see them taking on a semi trailer.
>
> I am 188cm and 115kg (ex Rugby forward) so none of these
> cowards have a go at me face to face. None would think of
> throwing a punch at me. Funny how these people, who can't
> control their temper on the road, can control it if the
> potential target of their rage is a big bloke who might rip
> their arms off, stick the soggy ends up their **** and ride
> 'em down the road like a pogo stick!
>
> SteveA
>
>

Similar size, wear dark glasses a lot and recently took to
shaving my head.

Strangely I don't get a abuse or offers to go outside and
settle a dispute.

A while ago I had a guy swerve into a parking bay in front of
me. I hit the side of his ute (wellbody) pretty hard and put
a fairly massive dent in it with my head. I could hear the
guy going off as he got out of the car but when I stood up he
went white got in the car and disappeared pronto.

A person on the footpath point out that I was holding about
18 inches in the air at the time. I wonder if he thought I
was about to throw it?

I think I was more likely to throw up actually (blinding
fscking migraine).

Cheers

BrettM