Broken wheel problems

[[email protected]]

Hi folks,

My back wheel died this morning. Well, I got home on it, but
the rim (a 32-hole grey Open Pro) is wrecked - two drive-side eyelets
have partially torn out of it, cracking one side of it. A non-drive-
side
spoke broke as well, but I suspect from the comments
of my group that this happened later, since they noticed a smaller
wobble first. It was built by my LBS, laced 3x with thick non-butted
DT spokes. I don't recall any particular abuse that it's taken in the
last few days.

I'm really disappointed, because I'd previously done the same to two
Mavic Elite rear rims, and I thought this wheel would be much tougher,
but it lasted only 7 months (about 10000km), not even as long as the
Elites! I've never damaged a front wheel or any other part of my bike
JRA.

Should I put this down to bad luck, a hard life, a bad rim, bad
building,
bad maintenance or some combination of these? Should I expect a
replacement rim and/or free rebuild from the shop? It was my first
hand-built wheel, so I have nothing to compare it with, but no-one I
know has broken a similar rim. I'm about 77kg, so not really a big
load.

I successfully claimed the last broken wheel on my contents insurance,
and I guess I can do it again, so I'm wondering what I should get,
since price isn't critical. I'm less worried about weight than
toughness, within reason, since I don't race.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[M-gineering]

[email protected] wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> My back wheel died this morning. Well, I got home on it, but
> the rim (a 32-hole grey Open Pro) is wrecked - two drive-side eyelets
> have partially torn out of it, cracking one side of it. A non-drive-
> side
> spoke broke as well, but I suspect from the comments
> of my group that this happened later, since they noticed a smaller
> wobble first. It was built by my LBS, laced 3x with thick non-butted
> DT spokes. I don't recall any particular abuse that it's taken in the
> last few days.

thick non-butted spokes are particulary rough on rims, and IMHO the sign
of a clueless wheelbuilder

--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Apr 23, 4:33 am, [email protected] wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> My back wheel died this morning. Well, I got home on it, but
> the rim (a 32-hole grey Open Pro) is wrecked - two drive-side eyelets
> have partially torn out of it, cracking one side of it. A non-drive-
> side
> spoke broke as well, but I suspect from the comments
> of my group that this happened later, since they noticed a smaller
> wobble first. It was built by my LBS, laced 3x with thick non-butted
> DT spokes. I don't recall any particular abuse that it's taken in the
> last few days.
>
> I'm really disappointed, because I'd previously done the same to two
> Mavic Elite rear rims, and I thought this wheel would be much tougher,
> but it lasted only 7 months (about 10000km), not even as long as the
> Elites! I've never damaged a front wheel or any other part of my bike
> JRA.
>
> Should I put this down to bad luck, a hard life, a bad rim, bad
> building,
> bad maintenance or some combination of these?

Hard to say why but high tension straight gauge spokes didn't
help(assuming the tension was high)

Should I expect a
> replacement rim and/or free rebuild from the shop?

6200 miles is a lot of riding in 7 months but the rim should have
lasted longer. I'd talk to them, not demand anything, per4haps a
rebuild for parts...ASK for 14/15 spokes tho, hopefully the LBS has
somebody that can buuld good wheels.

It was my first
> hand-built wheel, so I have nothing to compare it with, but no-one I
> know has broken a similar rim. I'm about 77kg, so not really a big
> load.
>
> I successfully claimed the last broken wheel on my contents insurance,
> and I guess I can do it again, so I'm wondering what I should get,
> since price isn't critical. I'm less worried about weight than
> toughness, within reason, since I don't race.

CXP-33 rim is another option. Not much heavier, but stronger than the
OpenPro.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[jim beam]

[email protected] wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> My back wheel died this morning. Well, I got home on it, but
> the rim (a 32-hole grey Open Pro) is wrecked - two drive-side eyelets
> have partially torn out of it, cracking one side of it. A non-drive-
> side
> spoke broke as well, but I suspect from the comments
> of my group that this happened later, since they noticed a smaller
> wobble first. It was built by my LBS, laced 3x with thick non-butted
> DT spokes. I don't recall any particular abuse that it's taken in the
> last few days.
>
> I'm really disappointed, because I'd previously done the same to two
> Mavic Elite rear rims, and I thought this wheel would be much tougher,
> but it lasted only 7 months (about 10000km), not even as long as the
> Elites! I've never damaged a front wheel or any other part of my bike
> JRA.
>
> Should I put this down to bad luck, a hard life, a bad rim, bad
> building,
> bad maintenance or some combination of these? Should I expect a
> replacement rim and/or free rebuild from the shop? It was my first
> hand-built wheel, so I have nothing to compare it with, but no-one I
> know has broken a similar rim. I'm about 77kg, so not really a big
> load.
>
> I successfully claimed the last broken wheel on my contents insurance,
> and I guess I can do it again, so I'm wondering what I should get,
> since price isn't critical. I'm less worried about weight than
> toughness, within reason, since I don't race.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated.
>
classic incompetent build. eyelet tear-through is classic excess spoke
tension - especially on an open pro. broken spoke probably caused by
either inferior spoke brand or more likely in this instance, uneven
spoke tension.

find a competent builder and start again. if you don't have access to
one, consider a pre-built wheel. they're true out of the box and stay
that way in use. and don't allow it to be "helped" by the person that
"helped" your last wheel either.

if you want to build a wheel yourself, there's plenty of online
resources that can help you - but the acquisition of a spoke tensiometer
is highly recommended.

 

[Bill Sornson]

[email protected] wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> My back wheel died this morning. Well, I got home on it, but
> the rim (a 32-hole grey Open Pro) is wrecked - two drive-side eyelets
> have partially torn out of it, cracking one side of it. A non-drive-
> side
> spoke broke as well, but I suspect from the comments
> of my group that this happened later, since they noticed a smaller
> wobble first. It was built by my LBS, laced 3x with thick non-butted
> DT spokes. I don't recall any particular abuse that it's taken in the
> last few days.
>
> I'm really disappointed, because I'd previously done the same to two
> Mavic Elite rear rims, and I thought this wheel would be much tougher,
> but it lasted only 7 months (about 10000km), not even as long as the
> Elites! I've never damaged a front wheel or any other part of my bike
> JRA.
>
> Should I put this down to bad luck, a hard life, a bad rim, bad
> building,
> bad maintenance or some combination of these? Should I expect a
> replacement rim and/or free rebuild from the shop? It was my first
> hand-built wheel, so I have nothing to compare it with, but no-one I
> know has broken a similar rim. I'm about 77kg, so not really a big
> load.
>
> I successfully claimed the last broken wheel on my contents insurance,
> and I guess I can do it again, so I'm wondering what I should get,
> since price isn't critical. I'm less worried about weight than
> toughness, within reason, since I don't race.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated.

Holy ****, we can claim broken bike bits on our homeowners insurance?!? How
many years can I back-date this scam?!?

Bill "suspension forks, shocks, FRAMES fer gawdsake, seat post clamps,
saddle rails, rims, hubs, nipples, spokes..." S.

 

[David L. Johnson]

[email protected] wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> My back wheel died this morning. Well, I got home on it, but
> the rim (a 32-hole grey Open Pro) is wrecked - two drive-side eyelets
> have partially torn out of it, cracking one side of it. A non-drive-
> side
> spoke broke as well, but I suspect from the comments
> of my group that this happened later, since they noticed a smaller
> wobble first. It was built by my LBS, laced 3x with thick non-butted
> DT spokes. I don't recall any particular abuse that it's taken in the
> last few days.
>
How about abuse earlier? Big pothole? Jump over a curb?

> but it lasted only 7 months (about 10000km), not even as long as the
> Elites!


> bad
> building,

My guess, unless there was some trauma in the not too distant past.

> bad maintenance or some combination of these? Should I expect a
> replacement rim and/or free rebuild from the shop?

How much should you trust them?

It was my first
> hand-built wheel, so I have nothing to compare it with, but no-one I
> know has broken a similar rim. I'm about 77kg, so not really a big
> load.

You are not that heavy. Look, you can get them to re-build the wheel,
but there is no guarantee that it won't be just as bad. If you are
mechanically-inclined, you can just build it yourself, so at least you
know whom to blame. You ride a lot, so this would probably save you
real money in the long run. Get Jobst's book, or check out Sheldon's
website, to see how it is done.

>
> I successfully claimed the last broken wheel on my contents insurance,
> and I guess I can do it again,

Doesn't that have a deductible? You may pay more in terms of increased
rates than this is worth. We're talking a $50 rim here.

--

David L. Johnson

Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig...
You soon find out the pig likes it!

 

[Paul Kopit]

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:11:59 +0200, M-gineering
<[email protected]> wrote:

>thick non-butted spokes are particulary rough on rims, and IMHO the sign
>of a clueless wheelbuilder

I've got a tandem front wheel that built with 2.0 DT spokes that is 14
years old and there is no problem with it. I use butted spokes but
they are clearly not so special as people here on rbt think. You can
build excellent and long lasting wheels using straight guage spokes.

 

[[email protected]]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I have a mate who builds his own
wheels, and he also suggested straight-gauge spokes and excessive
tension were the likely causes. Since I've never seen him break a
wheel and he has a spoke tensiometer, he must know what he's doing

If he agrees, I'm going to get a plain silver rim (probably another
Open Pro) and double-butted spokes, and pay him to help me build it
with a view to getting the tools and doing it myself thereafter. And
no, it won't be worth claiming on my insurance

BTW, I'm riding on yet another secondhand Elite at the moment, but
this one has much smaller screw-in eyelets (or whatever you'd call
them) than the first two. I've been told that this version is much
more resistant to rim cracking at the eyelets - can anyone comment on
this from experience?

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Michael Press]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> Thanks for the replies, everyone. I have a mate who builds his own
> wheels, and he also suggested straight-gauge spokes and excessive
> tension were the likely causes. Since I've never seen him break a
> wheel and he has a spoke tensiometer, he must know what he's doing
>
> If he agrees, I'm going to get a plain silver rim (probably another
> Open Pro) and double-butted spokes, and pay him to help me build it
> with a view to getting the tools and doing it myself thereafter. And
> no, it won't be worth claiming on my insurance

Excellent plan. Best wishes.

--
Michael Press

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Apr 23, 9:25 am, jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > Hi folks,
>
> > My back wheel died this morning. Well, I got home on it, but
> > the rim (a 32-hole grey Open Pro) is wrecked - two drive-side eyelets
> > have partially torn out of it, cracking one side of it. A non-drive-
> > side
> > spoke broke as well, but I suspect from the comments
> > of my group that this happened later, since they noticed a smaller
> > wobble first. It was built by my LBS, laced 3x with thick non-butted
> > DT spokes. I don't recall any particular abuse that it's taken in the
> > last few days.
>
> > I'm really disappointed, because I'd previously done the same to two
> > Mavic Elite rear rims, and I thought this wheel would be much tougher,
> > but it lasted only 7 months (about 10000km), not even as long as the
> > Elites! I've never damaged a front wheel or any other part of my bike
> > JRA.
>
> > Should I put this down to bad luck, a hard life, a bad rim, bad
> > building,
> > bad maintenance or some combination of these? Should I expect a
> > replacement rim and/or free rebuild from the shop? It was my first
> > hand-built wheel, so I have nothing to compare it with, but no-one I
> > know has broken a similar rim. I'm about 77kg, so not really a big
> > load.
>
> > I successfully claimed the last broken wheel on my contents insurance,
> > and I guess I can do it again, so I'm wondering what I should get,
> > since price isn't critical. I'm less worried about weight than
> > toughness, within reason, since I don't race.
>
> > Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> classic incompetent build. eyelet tear-through is classic excess spoke
> tension - especially on an open pro. broken spoke probably caused by
> either inferior spoke brand or more likely in this instance, uneven
> spoke tension.
>
> find a competent builder and start again. if you don't have access to
> one, consider a pre-built wheel. they're true out of the box and stay
> that way in use.

Hmmm, I guess not a better place to insert-YMMV....


and don't allow it to be "helped" by the person that
> "helped" your last wheel either.
>
> if you want to build a wheel yourself, there's plenty of online
> resources that can help you - but the acquisition of a spoke tensiometer
> is highly recommended.

 

[jim beam]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> On Apr 23, 9:25 am, jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> Hi folks,
>>> My back wheel died this morning. Well, I got home on it, but
>>> the rim (a 32-hole grey Open Pro) is wrecked - two drive-side eyelets
>>> have partially torn out of it, cracking one side of it. A non-drive-
>>> side
>>> spoke broke as well, but I suspect from the comments
>>> of my group that this happened later, since they noticed a smaller
>>> wobble first. It was built by my LBS, laced 3x with thick non-butted
>>> DT spokes. I don't recall any particular abuse that it's taken in the
>>> last few days.
>>> I'm really disappointed, because I'd previously done the same to two
>>> Mavic Elite rear rims, and I thought this wheel would be much tougher,
>>> but it lasted only 7 months (about 10000km), not even as long as the
>>> Elites! I've never damaged a front wheel or any other part of my bike
>>> JRA.
>>> Should I put this down to bad luck, a hard life, a bad rim, bad
>>> building,
>>> bad maintenance or some combination of these? Should I expect a
>>> replacement rim and/or free rebuild from the shop? It was my first
>>> hand-built wheel, so I have nothing to compare it with, but no-one I
>>> know has broken a similar rim. I'm about 77kg, so not really a big
>>> load.
>>> I successfully claimed the last broken wheel on my contents insurance,
>>> and I guess I can do it again, so I'm wondering what I should get,
>>> since price isn't critical. I'm less worried about weight than
>>> toughness, within reason, since I don't race.
>>> Any advice would be appreciated.
>> classic incompetent build. eyelet tear-through is classic excess spoke
>> tension - especially on an open pro. broken spoke probably caused by
>> either inferior spoke brand or more likely in this instance, uneven
>> spoke tension.
>>
>> find a competent builder and start again. if you don't have access to
>> one, consider a pre-built wheel. they're true out of the box and stay
>> that way in use.
>
> Hmmm, I guess not a better place to insert-YMMV....

maybe, but i've recently bought my 4th mavic cosmos, and it's true out
of the box. and has stayed that way for the first ~200 miles. my
others are true after thousands of miles. same for my shimano r540's.
i can't say that for most of the hand-built wheels i've bought. only
exception were the wheels i had built by len at the bike nook on
taraval, san francisco.

>
>
> and don't allow it to be "helped" by the person that
>> "helped" your last wheel either.
>>
>> if you want to build a wheel yourself, there's plenty of online
>> resources that can help you - but the acquisition of a spoke tensiometer
>> is highly recommended.
>
>

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Apr 23, 5:11 am, M-gineering <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > Hi folks,
>
> > My back wheel died this morning. Well, I got home on it, but
> > the rim (a 32-hole grey Open Pro) is wrecked - two drive-side eyelets
> > have partially torn out of it, cracking one side of it. A non-drive-
> > side
> > spoke broke as well, but I suspect from the comments
> > of my group that this happened later, since they noticed a smaller
> > wobble first. It was built by my LBS, laced 3x with thick non-butted
> > DT spokes. I don't recall any particular abuse that it's taken in the
> > last few days.
>
> thick non-butted spokes are particulary rough on rims, and IMHO the sign
> of a clueless wheelbuilder
>
> --
> ---
> Marten Gerritsen
>
> INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNLwww.m-gineering.nl

O please..You can make a fine longlasting wheel with 14g or 15g
straight spokes. The market demands 14/15 these days but straight
gauge spokes work fine, in the hands of a clued wheelbuilder.