Bruyneel talking shite



micron

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limerickman said:
You'll find that here in Europe the sport has been followed - and will always be followed - regardless of who may or may not be racing.
Mr Bruyneel, given his European nationality, should know this.

Whilst the exploits of the riders contribute to the history of racing, it is the races themselves - the cobbles of P-R, the climbs of Flanders, the challenges of the Giro and the Tour and the Vuelta - the parcours, the atmosphere, the traditions that make racing great. Though there is, of course, a symbiosis between rider and race, it is the race that makes stars of the riders, not the 'star' riders who make the race. Lile Lim says, Bruyneel should know that - but then he has shown his disrespect for the traditions and history of cycling by what he practices, as well as what he preaches.
 

Powerful Pete

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micron said:
snip... Lim says, Bruyneel should know that - but then he has shown his disrespect for the traditions and history of cycling by what he practices, as well as what he preaches.
As others have said, I think Bruyneel knows but is saying what he would be expected to be saying in such circumstances. He definitely seems to be missing the changing environment around him though...
 

thecyclist

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Bruyneel dosn't know what he is talking about.

Like we saw in Pais Vasco today Contador makes it boring because he will attack and we already know beforehand that no one can follow him. He even makes the same victory salute everytime.

He might win all the stages in this race.
 

TheDarkLord

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thecyclist said:
Bruyneel dosn't know what he is talking about.

Like we saw in Pais Vasco today Contador makes it boring because he will attack and we already know beforehand that no one can follow him. He even makes the same victory salute everytime.

He might win all the stages in this race.
No, I don't think JB is naive. He is spewing out all this **** because it is his boy that was prevented from racing. Do you think he would raise a voice if a very competent rider from the opposition was banned similarly? In such a scenario you will probably see **** from him about how it is important to ban such riders for a fair sport.
 

Flathead

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thecyclist said:
Bruyneel dosn't know what he is talking about.

Like we saw in Pais Vasco today Contador makes it boring because he will attack and we already know beforehand that no one can follow him. He even makes the same victory salute everytime.

He might win all the stages in this race.
So, Alberto attacks and you find that to be boring..................what a strange fellow you must be: perhaps you prefer the likes of Evans who loves to suck wheels (there was one recent exception) now that is what I would call boring. Why do you wish to deny talent above the average?..............is it envy?
 

hawkeye87

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thecyclist said:
Bruyneel dosn't know what he is talking about.

Like we saw in Pais Vasco today Contador makes it boring because he will attack and we already know beforehand that no one can follow him. He even makes the same victory salute everytime.
Let me guess, legs spread and pointing to his Astana team jersey?

You should read the tripe that Velonews has on the stage coming from Sean Yates.

“He’s the best rider in the world and he just proved it again today,” Astana sport director Sean Yates told VeloNews. “He just rode it off the wheel and took it all the way to the line. That’s the way to stick it to them, eh?”
Then Velonews goes on to write, themselves, "Contador’s been bent on winning just to prove he’s cycling’s alpha male despite being thwarted of a chance to defend his Tour title."

Give me a break! Alpha male?

The whole article is here: http://www.velonews.com/article/74341/contador-wins-basque-opener
 

thecyclist

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Flathead said:
So, Alberto attacks and you find that to be boring..................what a strange fellow you must be: perhaps you prefer the likes of Evans who loves to suck wheels (there was one recent exception) now that is what I would call boring. Why do you wish to deny talent above the average?..............is it envy?

Cadel dosn't make the races boring. If he dosn't attack, some one else will.

But I guess you prefer to see Armstrong-like machines crushing the field rather than an exciting and close race where we don't know the outcome in advance.
 

thecyclist

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It was that gun celebration. I'm not sure if he did the other things as well.

And Andrew Hood that's the guy who tried to convince everyone last summer that Contador was not involved in puerto.
 

TheDarkLord

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Flathead said:
So, Alberto attacks and you find that to be boring..................what a strange fellow you must be: perhaps you prefer the likes of Evans who loves to suck wheels (there was one recent exception) now that is what I would call boring. Why do you wish to deny talent above the average?..............is it envy?
There is a difference though. Sure, riders have their ups and downs, but do you really think that races that are consistently dominated by one rider are interesting? Isn't it much more exciting to see a group of riders duke it out (including breaks that get caught) so that it is not at all clear until the very end as to who is gonna win the race? I find such a race a lot more interesting to watch than one where a rider attacks early into the race and finishes first with a solo effort.
 

donrhummy

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Aren't we in EXACTLY the same situation as Bruyneel and Armstrong were in 1999?! Lance wasn't a huge star then and certainly wasn't expected to win the TDF and the previous year's winner was kicked out and a few others were also not competing. Why didn't the someone point that out and ask him what's different?
 

kennf

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hawkeye87 said:
Then Velonews goes on to write, themselves, "Contador’s been bent on winning just to prove he’s cycling’s alpha male despite being thwarted of a chance to defend his Tour title."

It would be fun to see that alpha male try to ride Flanders or P-R.
 

RdBiker

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Was it boring to watch Eddy Merckx dominate cycling in his time or was it boring to watch Erik Zable win all those green jerseys in the Tour de France? Some people would say yes. But then if asked should they have been banned from racing just to make it more interesting I don't think anyone would say yes. I personally think that cycling superstars make races more interesting and I was for example really dissapointed to see Basso get banned and not able to ride the '06 Tour.

My point here is that even though there are many many good reasons to ban Contador from racing I don't understand why he should be banned for being too good :confused: He could be banned for that if it was proven that he got too good by using doping, but since no one has any concrete evidence against him it would be unfair to ban him and let the likes of Valverde and Di Luca ride (and actually the whole peloton if you ask me)

And besides, Contador isn't IMHO that great a rider. Yes he can "dominate" a few early season stage races racing against riders who aren't going to peak for months. And yes he won a Tour where the real threats were shut out of the race or crashed and lost their minds (Chicken, Vinokourov, Kloden). This year he would've been a big favourite but I would be really suprised if the defending champion, who hasn't even reached his full potential, wouldn't be :) (I've read that stage race specialists reach their full potential at ~30)
 

TheDarkLord

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RdBiker said:
Was it boring to watch Eddy Merckx dominate cycling in his time or was it boring to watch Erik Zable win all those green jerseys in the Tour de France? Some people would say yes. But then if asked should they have been banned from racing just to make it more interesting I don't think anyone would say yes. I personally think that cycling superstars make races more interesting and I was for example really dissapointed to see Basso get banned and not able to ride the '06 Tour.

My point here is that even though there are many many good reasons to ban Contador from racing I don't understand why he should be banned for being too good :confused: He could be banned for that if it was proven that he got too good by using doping, but since no one has any concrete evidence against him it would be unfair to ban him and let the likes of Valverde and Di Luca ride (and actually the whole peloton if you ask me)
As far as I can see, nobody has asked for him to be banned for being too good. We're saying that races are boring when dominated by a single rider from early on in a race, and people (in this thread that is) have objected to him being referred to as an "alpha male" in cycling, and people have said that they are not gonna miss him in the Tour or other races. I for one am glad that JB products are not there in the Tour as they (a) tend to show superhuman capabilities and (b) are unrepentant about doping. You can probably say the same about much of the peloton, but these traits are enhanced in JB products. Contador especially pisses me off with his jabs at Kloeden - when you are juiced as much as if not more than your teammate, the least you can do is STFU instead of trash talking him.
 

thecyclist

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RdBiker said:
Was it boring to watch Eddy Merckx dominate cycling in his time or was it boring to watch Erik Zable win all those green jerseys in the Tour de France? Some people would say yes. But then if asked should they have been banned from racing just to make it more interesting I don't think anyone would say yes. I personally think that cycling superstars make races more interesting and I was for example really dissapointed to see Basso get banned and not able to ride the '06 Tour.

My point here is that even though there are many many good reasons to ban Contador from racing I don't understand why he should be banned for being too good :confused: He could be banned for that if it was proven that he got too good by using doping, but since no one has any concrete evidence against him it would be unfair to ban him and let the likes of Valverde and Di Luca ride (and actually the whole peloton if you ask me)

And besides, Contador isn't IMHO that great a rider. Yes he can "dominate" a few early season stage races racing against riders who aren't going to peak for months. And yes he won a Tour where the real threats were shut out of the race or crashed and lost their minds (Chicken, Vinokourov, Kloden). This year he would've been a big favourite but I would be really suprised if the defending champion, who hasn't even reached his full potential, wouldn't be :) (I've read that stage race specialists reach their full potential at ~30)
I don't think anyone said he should be banned for being too good.

Only that Bruyneel is wrong when he claims the TDF will be boring without Contador, when the opposite will likely be the case.
 

micron

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Today's stage was same old same old for Discatana - let a break go with team in blue riding tempo front of peloton, Dirty Bertie attacks 1 km from top of climb, uses the race cars to draft for as long as possible, catches remaining rider from break, forces him to do all the work by sitting on his wheel then drops him when he's cooked. Peloton makes a half hearted attempt to chase and closes to a few seconds as Bertie performs his ridiculous 'Spanish Cowboy' celebration.

BTW this isn't culled from cyclingnews, this is what I watched with my own eyes and it was the dullest day's racing I've seen all season. Contador
should be winning these sorts of races FFS, but they're little more than warm ups for the main feast of the Giro/Tour - I'm sure Yates/Bruyneel will have the fan boys believing they're the equal, nay far better, than the GTs. But the 'alpha male of cycling'? And some kind of amazing attacking rider - when he takes off 10 kms into an all day mountain stage like Coppi or Merckx then I might buy it but for now he is simply carbon copy Armstrong and about as exciting an attacking rider as, well, a not at all exciting 'attacking' rider
 

RdBiker

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TheDarkLord said:
As far as I can see, nobody has asked for him to be banned for being too good. We're saying that races are boring when dominated by a single rider from early on in a race, and people (in this thread that is) have objected to him being referred to as an "alpha male" in cycling, and people have said that they are not gonna miss him in the Tour or other races. I for one am glad that JB products are not there in the Tour as they (a) tend to show superhuman capabilities and (b) are unrepentant about doping. You can probably say the same about much of the peloton, but these traits are enhanced in JB products. Contador especially pisses me off with his jabs at Kloeden - when you are juiced as much as if not more than your teammate, the least you can do is STFU instead of trash talking him.
Yes you're right that nobody asked for him to be banned, but that would really be the only possible solution I could think of to stop him make races boring. If he won't be riding the Tour this year he'll be riding it next year or the one after that. If Astana still exists this time next year ASO will be under heavy pressure to grant them participation to their races. And there's of course the possibility to switch teams.
I don't actually like Contador myself either (don't really know why - I just have something against him), but I don't find dominant riders boring. I hadn't heard of him talking trash about Kloden but if he has then he really is an idiot.
 

poulidor

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RdBiker said:
My point here is that even though there are many many good reasons to ban Contador from racing I don't understand why he should be banned for being too good :confused: He could be banned for that if it was proven that he got too good by using doping, but since no one has any concrete evidence against him it would be unfair to ban him and let the likes of Valverde and Di Luca ride (and actually the whole peloton if you ask me)
They are not banned because they are too good , they are just not invited because they are too stupid and have not understood that doping became not tolerated since 2005. When your doping is so visible you are out of the system.
 

Powerful Pete

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Having said all this, I wonder what would happen if we were to see Contador on another team without the Astana gang able to ride up the Tourmalet or the Izoard at 45kp/h.

And have Hincapie be nominated as the next great TdF slayer by some of our now long-gone forum contributors... :D
 

TheDarkLord

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micron said:
Today's stage was same old same old for Discatana - let a break go with team in blue riding tempo front of peloton, Dirty Bertie attacks 1 km from top of climb, uses the race cars to draft for as long as possible, catches remaining rider from break, forces him to do all the work by sitting on his wheel then drops him when he's cooked. Peloton makes a half hearted attempt to chase and closes to a few seconds as Bertie performs his ridiculous 'Spanish Cowboy' celebration.
That doesn't help improve my image of Contador. He is a real jackass to use someone like that (regarding the text in bold). Why is he doing this, and why isn't this shameful behavior not indicated in the cycling news sites? Are they too "charmed" by the Spanish cowboy??