Bulking up & Toning Up advice.....

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by ML, Mar 12, 2006.

  1. ML

    ML Guest

    I have been lifting for about 2 years now, I would like to step it up, I'm
    5'10, 165lbs. I am fairly slender, my goal is to bulk up and get some
    definition, but at the same time the only part of my that isn't really
    slender is my stomach area, I guess you can say I'm skinny fat;) I would
    like to trim that up a bit...

    My routine recently (for the past 6 months) has been the following:
    1 - Chest / Tris
    2 - Back / Bis
    3 - Shoulders / Legs (sometimes i'll do shoulders one day and legs the next)
    *** 4 sets, 12reps,10reps,8reps,6reps for all excersises. increasing the
    weight as i go down in reps ***

    I would do the above routine and if I didn't make it one day that would be
    my rest day then just start the routine over again, so I could do chest /
    tris twice a week... I would work in abs 2x per week and do minimal cardio
    (15-20mins). I usually get to the gym 4-5 days a week. I attempted to do
    the hypertrophy, but honestly I don't have to dedication to be so meticulous
    and time to figure out everything the program calls for, soo...

    I'm asking anyone for some advice on what you might think I should change or
    modify? Nutrion wise also.... Or recommend any websites that have specific
    training routines... Again, I consider myself fairly slender but have some
    love handles and fat in the stomach area.... Please be specific on any
    recommendations! ! ! I have been taking creatine / glutamine and whey
    protein, I do try to eat as often/much as possible as i know that is the #1
    thing that will put on my mass/muscle...

    THANK YOU IN ADVANCE! !

    nutshell222 AT hotmail.com
     
    Tags:


  2. Curt James

    Curt James Guest

    ML wrote:

    > I have been lifting for about 2 years now,


    How old are you? Not that it matters especially. Just curious.

    > I would like to step it up, I'm 5'10, 165lbs. I am
    > fairly slender, my goal is to bulk up and get some
    > definition, but at the same time the only part of
    > my that isn't really slender is my stomach area,
    > I guess you can say I'm skinny fat;) I would
    > like to trim that up a bit...


    I'm 6'1, 165lbs. Unlike you, however, I've never had the skinny fat
    situation. Genetics play a significant part in your body composition
    and appearance. And with your lack of motivation, well, there's
    probably not much anyone here can do to help. I mean I snipped the part
    where you wrote something about not having the time or patience for
    somethingsomething. What?

    "but honestly I don't have to dedication to be so meticulous and time
    to figure out everything the program calls for, soo..."

    Again, *what???* Then enjoy your love handles, pal.

    > My routine recently (for the past 6 months) has
    > been the following:
    > 1 - Chest / Tris
    > 2 - Back / Bis
    > 3 - Shoulders / Legs (sometimes i'll do shoulders
    > one day and legs the next)
    > *** 4 sets, 12reps,10reps,8reps,6reps for all
    > excersises. increasing the weight as i go
    > down in reps ***


    [...]

    Forget the split. Go full body - Monday, Weds, Fri - with fewer
    exercises:

    Stick to the pyramiding (4 x 12, 10, 8, 6), doing chest, back,
    shoulders, legs, and abs.

    > work in abs 2x per week and do minimal cardio
    > (15-20mins).


    Drop the cardio entirely. But drop the beer, too, if you're a drinker.
    Ditch the soda and candy. See what happens over the course of six or
    eight weeks.

    [...]

    > Again, I consider myself fairly slender but have some
    > love handles and fat in the stomach area....


    Genetics, beer, candy, soda, fatty diet? I don't know. I've never had
    the fat thing to worry about or consider, but I do remember a super hot
    chic at a factory job a million years ago. She had the *bangingest*
    body and swore by laying off sodas and chips when she thought she was
    getting out of shape. I wonder what she looks like now. Then she was
    smokin' hot. Levi's jeans should have hired her as a walking
    advertisement.

    [...]

    > I do try to eat as often/much as possible as i know that is the #1
    > thing that will put on my mass/muscle...


    With your waist complaint, perhaps you should avoid the idea of
    mass/muscle and concern yourself with building your strength and eating
    clean, i.e. no soda, no junk, no beer, none of that fattyfatfatty food.

    Best of luck.

    --
    Curt
    http://curtjames.com/
     
  3. dude, you should probably NOT call yourself ML...he was a legendary
    troll
     
  4. On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:40:59 -0500, "ML" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >I have been lifting for about 2 years now, I would like to step it


    It's about time you stopped it. Just quit.
     
  5. ML

    ML Guest

    I just meant that specific hypertrophy program, i do have the dedication and
    motivation for working out and imporving my body.. I'm 29....

    thanks for the info..

    "Curt James" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > ML wrote:
    >
    >> I have been lifting for about 2 years now,

    >
    > How old are you? Not that it matters especially. Just curious.
    >
    >> I would like to step it up, I'm 5'10, 165lbs. I am
    >> fairly slender, my goal is to bulk up and get some
    >> definition, but at the same time the only part of
    >> my that isn't really slender is my stomach area,
    >> I guess you can say I'm skinny fat;) I would
    >> like to trim that up a bit...

    >
    > I'm 6'1, 165lbs. Unlike you, however, I've never had the skinny fat
    > situation. Genetics play a significant part in your body composition
    > and appearance. And with your lack of motivation, well, there's
    > probably not much anyone here can do to help. I mean I snipped the part
    > where you wrote something about not having the time or patience for
    > somethingsomething. What?
    >
    > "but honestly I don't have to dedication to be so meticulous and time
    > to figure out everything the program calls for, soo..."
    >
    > Again, *what???* Then enjoy your love handles, pal.
    >
    >> My routine recently (for the past 6 months) has
    >> been the following:
    >> 1 - Chest / Tris
    >> 2 - Back / Bis
    >> 3 - Shoulders / Legs (sometimes i'll do shoulders
    >> one day and legs the next)
    >> *** 4 sets, 12reps,10reps,8reps,6reps for all
    >> excersises. increasing the weight as i go
    >> down in reps ***

    >
    > [...]
    >
    > Forget the split. Go full body - Monday, Weds, Fri - with fewer
    > exercises:
    >
    > Stick to the pyramiding (4 x 12, 10, 8, 6), doing chest, back,
    > shoulders, legs, and abs.
    >
    >> work in abs 2x per week and do minimal cardio
    >> (15-20mins).

    >
    > Drop the cardio entirely. But drop the beer, too, if you're a drinker.
    > Ditch the soda and candy. See what happens over the course of six or
    > eight weeks.
    >
    > [...]
    >
    >> Again, I consider myself fairly slender but have some
    >> love handles and fat in the stomach area....

    >
    > Genetics, beer, candy, soda, fatty diet? I don't know. I've never had
    > the fat thing to worry about or consider, but I do remember a super hot
    > chic at a factory job a million years ago. She had the *bangingest*
    > body and swore by laying off sodas and chips when she thought she was
    > getting out of shape. I wonder what she looks like now. Then she was
    > smokin' hot. Levi's jeans should have hired her as a walking
    > advertisement.
    >
    > [...]
    >
    >> I do try to eat as often/much as possible as i know that is the #1
    >> thing that will put on my mass/muscle...

    >
    > With your waist complaint, perhaps you should avoid the idea of
    > mass/muscle and concern yourself with building your strength and eating
    > clean, i.e. no soda, no junk, no beer, none of that fattyfatfatty food.
    >
    > Best of luck.
    >
    > --
    > Curt
    > http://curtjames.com/
    >
     
  6. lm

    lm Guest

    Curt, can you be more speicifc about the full body, I have to say i have
    done a full body routine and to be completely honest it wears me down very
    quickly plus it gets extremely repetative, that's why i switched to a split
    routine..
    "Curt James" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > ML wrote:
    >
    >> I have been lifting for about 2 years now,

    >
    > How old are you? Not that it matters especially. Just curious.
    >
    >> I would like to step it up, I'm 5'10, 165lbs. I am
    >> fairly slender, my goal is to bulk up and get some
    >> definition, but at the same time the only part of
    >> my that isn't really slender is my stomach area,
    >> I guess you can say I'm skinny fat;) I would
    >> like to trim that up a bit...

    >
    > I'm 6'1, 165lbs. Unlike you, however, I've never had the skinny fat
    > situation. Genetics play a significant part in your body composition
    > and appearance. And with your lack of motivation, well, there's
    > probably not much anyone here can do to help. I mean I snipped the part
    > where you wrote something about not having the time or patience for
    > somethingsomething. What?
    >
    > "but honestly I don't have to dedication to be so meticulous and time
    > to figure out everything the program calls for, soo..."
    >
    > Again, *what???* Then enjoy your love handles, pal.
    >
    >> My routine recently (for the past 6 months) has
    >> been the following:
    >> 1 - Chest / Tris
    >> 2 - Back / Bis
    >> 3 - Shoulders / Legs (sometimes i'll do shoulders
    >> one day and legs the next)
    >> *** 4 sets, 12reps,10reps,8reps,6reps for all
    >> excersises. increasing the weight as i go
    >> down in reps ***

    >
    > [...]
    >
    > Forget the split. Go full body - Monday, Weds, Fri - with fewer
    > exercises:
    >
    > Stick to the pyramiding (4 x 12, 10, 8, 6), doing chest, back,
    > shoulders, legs, and abs.
    >
    >> work in abs 2x per week and do minimal cardio
    >> (15-20mins).

    >
    > Drop the cardio entirely. But drop the beer, too, if you're a drinker.
    > Ditch the soda and candy. See what happens over the course of six or
    > eight weeks.
    >
    > [...]
    >
    >> Again, I consider myself fairly slender but have some
    >> love handles and fat in the stomach area....

    >
    > Genetics, beer, candy, soda, fatty diet? I don't know. I've never had
    > the fat thing to worry about or consider, but I do remember a super hot
    > chic at a factory job a million years ago. She had the *bangingest*
    > body and swore by laying off sodas and chips when she thought she was
    > getting out of shape. I wonder what she looks like now. Then she was
    > smokin' hot. Levi's jeans should have hired her as a walking
    > advertisement.
    >
    > [...]
    >
    >> I do try to eat as often/much as possible as i know that is the #1
    >> thing that will put on my mass/muscle...

    >
    > With your waist complaint, perhaps you should avoid the idea of
    > mass/muscle and concern yourself with building your strength and eating
    > clean, i.e. no soda, no junk, no beer, none of that fattyfatfatty food.
    >
    > Best of luck.
    >
    > --
    > Curt
    > http://curtjames.com/
    >
     
  7. DVDfanatico

    DVDfanatico Guest

    Try to eat lowfat or nonfat foods and foods high in fiber and you will
    lose fat or at least not gain any more. You can also eat some low carb
    foods. Follow Joe Weider's instinctive principle to get a feel about
    how much you should lift/how many reps and what and when to eat.

    Good lifting!

    DVDfanatico
    www.KnightLanguages.com
    The Foreign Language Supersite inc


    I have been lifting for about 2 years now, I would like to step it up,
    I'm
    5'10, 165lbs. I am fairly slender, my goal is to bulk up and get some
    definition, but at the same time the only part of my that isn't really
    slender is my stomach area, I guess you can say I'm skinny fat;) I
    would
    like to trim that up a bit...

    My routine recently (for the past 6 months) has been the following:
    1 - Chest / Tris
    2 - Back / Bis
    3 - Shoulders / Legs (sometimes i'll do shoulders one day and legs the
    next)
    *** 4 sets, 12reps,10reps,8reps,6reps for all excersises. increasing
    the
    weight as i go down in reps ***


    I would do the above routine and if I didn't make it one day that would
    be
    my rest day then just start the routine over again, so I could do chest
    /
    tris twice a week... I would work in abs 2x per week and do minimal
    cardio
    (15-20mins). I usually get to the gym 4-5 days a week. I attempted to
    do
    the hypertrophy, but honestly I don't have to dedication to be so
    meticulous
    and time to figure out everything the program calls for, soo...


    I'm asking anyone for some advice on what you might think I should
    change or
    modify? Nutrion wise also.... Or recommend any websites that have
    specific
    training routines... Again, I consider myself fairly slender but have
    some
    love handles and fat in the stomach area.... Please be specific on any

    recommendations! ! ! I have been taking creatine / glutamine and whey
    protein, I do try to eat as often/much as possible as i know that is
    the #1
    thing that will put on my mass/muscle...


    THANK YOU IN ADVANCE! !


    nutshell222 AT hotmail.com
     
  8. David

    David Guest

    "DVDfanatico" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Try to eat lowfat or nonfat foods and foods high in fiber and you will
    > lose fat or at least not gain any more. You can also eat some low carb
    > foods. Follow Joe Weider's instinctive principle to get a feel about
    > how much you should lift/how many reps and what and when to eat.


    Why are you advising low fat or non fat foods? What is wrong with fat? What
    is your idea of a good balance i.e. protein, carbs, fats? You want this
    person to eat low fat and low carb - so where will he get his calories from?
    People who know shit about nutrition should stfu.



    >
    > Good lifting!
    >
    > DVDfanatico
    > www.KnightLanguages.com
    > The Foreign Language Supersite inc
    >
    >
    > I have been lifting for about 2 years now, I would like to step it up,
    > I'm
    > 5'10, 165lbs. I am fairly slender, my goal is to bulk up and get some
    > definition, but at the same time the only part of my that isn't really
    > slender is my stomach area, I guess you can say I'm skinny fat;) I
    > would
    > like to trim that up a bit...
    >
    > My routine recently (for the past 6 months) has been the following:
    > 1 - Chest / Tris
    > 2 - Back / Bis
    > 3 - Shoulders / Legs (sometimes i'll do shoulders one day and legs the
    > next)
    > *** 4 sets, 12reps,10reps,8reps,6reps for all excersises. increasing
    > the
    > weight as i go down in reps ***
    >
    >
    > I would do the above routine and if I didn't make it one day that would
    > be
    > my rest day then just start the routine over again, so I could do chest
    > /
    > tris twice a week... I would work in abs 2x per week and do minimal
    > cardio
    > (15-20mins). I usually get to the gym 4-5 days a week. I attempted to
    > do
    > the hypertrophy, but honestly I don't have to dedication to be so
    > meticulous
    > and time to figure out everything the program calls for, soo...
    >
    >
    > I'm asking anyone for some advice on what you might think I should
    > change or
    > modify? Nutrion wise also.... Or recommend any websites that have
    > specific
    > training routines... Again, I consider myself fairly slender but have
    > some
    > love handles and fat in the stomach area.... Please be specific on any
    >
    > recommendations! ! ! I have been taking creatine / glutamine and whey
    > protein, I do try to eat as often/much as possible as i know that is
    > the #1
    > thing that will put on my mass/muscle...
    >
    >
    > THANK YOU IN ADVANCE! !
    >
    >
    > nutshell222 AT hotmail.com
    >
     
  9. David  Cohen

    David Cohen Guest

    "David" <[email protected]> wrote
    > "DVDfanatico" <[email protected]> wrote
    >> Try to eat lowfat or nonfat foods and foods high in fiber and you will
    >> lose fat or at least not gain any more. You can also eat some low carb
    >> foods. Follow Joe Weider's instinctive principle to get a feel about
    >> how much you should lift/how many reps and what and when to eat.

    >
    > Why are you advising low fat or non fat foods? What is wrong with fat?
    > What is your idea of a good balance i.e. protein, carbs, fats? You want
    > this person to eat low fat and low carb - so where will he get his
    > calories from? People who know shit about nutrition should stfu.


    Locker and <<joni>> recruited him. They were tired of being told what
    blithering idiots they were, and found somebody orders of magnitude more
    stupid.

    Did you catch his advice in another post that non-psyllium fiber pills were
    addictive? Sheer genius.

    David
    me, not the troll enabler
     
  10. "ML" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >I have been lifting for about 2 years now, I would like to step it up,
    >I'm 5'10, 165lbs. I am fairly slender, my goal is to bulk up and get
    >some definition - snip -


    Bulk up - Google "20 rep squats" and "super squats" - read, follow their
    advice, which is to say: squat.

    Definition - after you eat more for a while to keep up with your 20-rep
    squats, keep lifting and start eating less, and you'll lose some weight
    and hopefully acquire some definition.

    People have been doing it this way for decades and there's no reason to
    reinvent the wheel, IMHO.

    -S-
    http://www.kbnj.com
     
  11. David

    David Guest

    "David Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "David" <[email protected]> wrote
    >> "DVDfanatico" <[email protected]> wrote
    >>> Try to eat lowfat or nonfat foods and foods high in fiber and you will
    >>> lose fat or at least not gain any more. You can also eat some low carb
    >>> foods. Follow Joe Weider's instinctive principle to get a feel about
    >>> how much you should lift/how many reps and what and when to eat.

    >>
    >> Why are you advising low fat or non fat foods? What is wrong with fat?
    >> What is your idea of a good balance i.e. protein, carbs, fats? You want
    >> this person to eat low fat and low carb - so where will he get his
    >> calories from? People who know shit about nutrition should stfu.

    >
    > Locker and <<joni>> recruited him. They were tired of being told what
    > blithering idiots they were, and found somebody orders of magnitude more
    > stupid.


    But it all fits in with the 'new' mfw. Not necessary informative but
    certainly entertaining.

    > Did you catch his advice in another post that non-psyllium fiber pills
    > were addictive? Sheer genius.


    I think he is confusing fibre with laxatives.

    > David
    > me, not the troll enabler


    Ha ha! (I think you may have enabled a troll or two in your day)

    Ha ha!
     
  12. jabadoodle

    jabadoodle Guest

    Ok, I am new to all this too, so I'm sure people will tell me I'm wrong. But
    hopefully
    they'll say specifically where & how I'm wrong so maybe we'll both/all learn
    something.
    Anyway, here is what I'm thinking...

    The muscle building work is ok. Any exercising isn't going to be bad for you
    (unless you
    do it wrong / excessive). But the muscle work on your chest, tris, back,
    bis, shoulders, etc
    isn't going to do much to help your "love handle" stomach. It will burn a
    few calories and that's
    good, but beyond that it isn't going to help much.

    I think putting some serious cardio in there will help you. The cardio will
    take a lot more
    calories of work and start you into the "fat burning" mode. With the weight
    lifting, unless you
    really really push it, you are not raising your heart rate and getting into
    the fat burning mode.

    I'm in a somewhat similar situation. I'm also about 165, though shorter and
    with more than
    just "love handles". I too would really like to loose a lot from my stomach
    area. But I'd also
    like to put a little muscle on my bones.

    I happen to have quite a bit of time for the gym right now...so what I'm
    trying:
    - Go to gym and start with a 15 minute cardio (EXF) warm-up. Machine says
    about 200 calories.
    - Do some lifting, split schedule. Back & Bi one day. Abs & Shoulders
    another. Chest & Tri another. Legs another.
    - After the lifting, 30 minutes on the cardio. Maybe 45 if I feel the energy
    that day.
    - Sometimes I miss a day or two here and there. I try to do the cardio
    anyway even if no time for the lifting.

    I also wonder that abdominal / "core" muscle work might be helpful. As I
    understand it, working those
    muscles will NOT help directly burn the fat that is stored in that area.
    BUT...I'm thinking that if/when I do loose
    some fat from that area, the more defined muscles there will help it look
    all that much better. ~~ Plus, the "core"
    abdominal area is pretty big, so working/building those muscles means more
    muscle volume = more calorie
    burning. (Muscles burn more calories, even at rest, then fat does.)

    Actually, I think the same goes for working the legs. The legs and glues
    (butt) is a big muscle mass. Working
    and building those helps build muscle mass faster than working smaller
    muscles like, say, the biceps. And
    more muscle mass means a body that is burning more calories daily.

    Now, my big problem: I'm still eating too many calories and too much fat. I
    got the program from FitDay.com.
    (Note: They charge $29 but if you join the free web site first and click
    around you can get it for $19). Using that
    I see that most days I still eat more calories than I burn off. ~ OK, I
    know it isn't exact because the foods I enter
    and the workout I enter aren't 100% accurate. But I think it's showing me
    that in general I eat pretty close to
    what I burn in a day. Some days I'm a little negative (less eaten then
    burned), most days it's about equal, and
    some days I binge a little and eat more than I burn. ~ This last usually
    occurs when I go out to dinner or to
    someone else's house for dinner. '

    Another part of my problem is evening snacks: During the day and even
    through dinner I do pretty good
    with not eating too much fat, only good fats (poly-unsaturated), and an ok
    number of calories. But in the
    evenings I usually want to snack. I'm trying very hard to either not snack
    or only snack on more healthy
    things (apple sauce with whet germ, even fat-free yogurt). But some times I
    eat some junk (cookies, chocolate,
    etc.) anyway. It would be easier if that stuff just wasn't in the
    house...but others here want it...and then I eat it.

    I've only been at this for about 10 weeks. So I'm giving myself credit just
    for going to the gym, learning more
    about all this, etc. But to see the results I want I think I have to step it
    up and get more dedication / discipline.
    Mostly I think I have the right *ideas* but need to follow through more.
    That is, I need to make it to the gym
    more days per week, avoid the worst of foods I eat, and keep the total
    calories per day just a little lower.

    Oh: I also used to like to have a few cocktails almost daily. And these were
    usually mixed with coke or
    were beers. Now I don't drink most days and once in a while when I do I try
    to have wine which is less
    carbs than beers or cocktails with coke. ~ I've also cut out having just
    coke as a drink. Now It's usually
    water.

    It's a little frustrating that even with these changes I'm pretty much the
    same weight and body shape. But I'm
    hoping that with a little more time and a little more effort that'll change.


    Well, that was a lot longer post then had in mind when I started. Hope it
    helps or at least spurs some
    useful responses.









    "ML" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >I have been lifting for about 2 years now, I would like to step it up, I'm
    >5'10, 165lbs. I am fairly slender, my goal is to bulk up and get some
    >definition, but at the same time the only part of my that isn't really
    >slender is my stomach area, I guess you can say I'm skinny fat;) I would
    >like to trim that up a bit...
    >
    > My routine recently (for the past 6 months) has been the following:
    > 1 - Chest / Tris
    > 2 - Back / Bis
    > 3 - Shoulders / Legs (sometimes i'll do shoulders one day and legs the
    > next)
    > *** 4 sets, 12reps,10reps,8reps,6reps for all excersises. increasing the
    > weight as i go down in reps ***
    >
    > I would do the above routine and if I didn't make it one day that would be
    > my rest day then just start the routine over again, so I could do chest /
    > tris twice a week... I would work in abs 2x per week and do minimal
    > cardio (15-20mins). I usually get to the gym 4-5 days a week. I attempted
    > to do the hypertrophy, but honestly I don't have to dedication to be so
    > meticulous and time to figure out everything the program calls for, soo...
    >
    > I'm asking anyone for some advice on what you might think I should change
    > or modify? Nutrion wise also.... Or recommend any websites that have
    > specific training routines... Again, I consider myself fairly slender but
    > have some love handles and fat in the stomach area.... Please be specific
    > on any recommendations! ! ! I have been taking creatine / glutamine and
    > whey protein, I do try to eat as often/much as possible as i know that is
    > the #1 thing that will put on my mass/muscle...
    >
    > THANK YOU IN ADVANCE! !
    >
    > nutshell222 AT hotmail.com
    >
     
  13. On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:52:32 -0500, "jabadoodle"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > so I'm sure people will tell me I'm wrong.


    You're wrong (I didn't even bother reading past that).
    And a dumbass.
     
  14. "jabadoodle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > Ok, I am new to all this too,


    So go ahead and give others a lot of bad advice....

    > so I'm sure people will tell me I'm wrong.


    You're wrong (there!)

    > But hopefully
    > they'll say specifically where & how I'm wrong so maybe we'll both/all

    learn
    > something.
    > Anyway, here is what I'm thinking...
    >
    > The muscle building work is ok. Any exercising isn't going to be bad for

    you
    > (unless you
    > do it wrong / excessive). But the muscle work on your chest, tris, back,
    > bis, shoulders, etc
    > isn't going to do much to help your "love handle" stomach. It will burn a
    > few calories and that's
    > good, but beyond that it isn't going to help much.


    It isn't? Later in your post you talk about how muscle burns more calories
    than fat. Do you know how many calories are burned lifting?

    > I think putting some serious cardio in there will help you. The cardio

    will
    > take a lot more calories of work


    It will?

    > and start you into the "fat burning" mode.


    What is this "fat burning mode" you talk about? Something you pick up on a
    website somewhere? Please, tell us how we too can be in the fat burning
    mode!

    > With the weight lifting, unless you
    > really really push it, you are not raising your heart rate and getting

    into
    > the fat burning mode.


    Aren't you burning calories? Cardio is great for CV health but it's not the
    only (or even, necessarily the best) way to burn fat.

    > I'm in a somewhat similar situation.


    So you're speaking from experience, oh wait, you haven't solved YOUR problem
    but you can tell someone else how to do it? Course, later on you talk about
    how what you're doing isn't really working so you're advice is worth.....?

    > I'm also about 165, though shorter and
    > with more than just "love handles". I too would really like to loose a lot

    from my stomach
    > area. But I'd also like to put a little muscle on my bones.


    Looks like you've got some goals to work towards. Now which one first, lose
    fat or gain muscle?

    > I happen to have quite a bit of time for the gym right now...so what I'm

    trying:
    > - Go to gym and start with a 15 minute cardio (EXF) warm-up. Machine says
    > about 200 calories.


    First, if you're trying to gain muscle I'd suggest doing you're cardio after
    lifting (or on non-lifting days). Also, don't put much faith in the
    "calories burned" that the machine says, they're usually far from accurate.

    > - Do some lifting, split schedule. Back & Bi one day. Abs & Shoulders
    > another. Chest & Tri another. Legs another.


    So you work each body part once a week? If your current goal is muscle gain
    I'd suggest a full body routine (I'd suggest HST) 3 times a week.

    > - After the lifting, 30 minutes on the cardio. Maybe 45 if I feel the

    energy
    > that day.


    This cardio is fine for fat loss. For muscle gain I'd suggest doing it on
    non-lifting days.

    > - Sometimes I miss a day or two here and there. I try to do the cardio
    > anyway even if no time for the lifting.
    >
    > I also wonder that abdominal / "core" muscle work might be helpful. As I
    > understand it, working those
    > muscles will NOT help directly burn the fat that is stored in that area.
    > BUT...I'm thinking that if/when I do loose
    > some fat from that area, the more defined muscles there will help it look
    > all that much better.


    You mean the "larger" muscles there will help it look...... not "more
    defined".

    > ~~ Plus, the "core" abdominal area is pretty big, so working/building

    those muscles means more
    > muscle volume = more calorie burning. (Muscles burn more calories, even

    at rest, then fat does.)

    Legs have some mighty big muscles (and when you work them it tends to also
    work your core).

    > Actually, I think the same goes for working the legs. The legs and glues
    > (butt) is a big muscle mass.


    Yes!

    > Working and building those helps build muscle mass faster than working

    smaller
    > muscles like, say, the biceps. And more muscle mass means a body that is

    burning more calories daily.

    But wait, earlier didn't you say that cardio is how you lose fat?

    > Now, my big problem: I'm still eating too many calories and too much fat.


    The fat probably isn't a problem (especially if it's "good" fat) but the
    excess calories is counter-productive to fat loss.

    > I got the program from FitDay.com.
    > (Note: They charge $29 but if you join the free web site first and click
    > around you can get it for $19). Using that
    > I see that most days I still eat more calories than I burn off.


    That's a problem if your goal is fat loss.

    > ~ OK, I know it isn't exact because the foods I enter
    > and the workout I enter aren't 100% accurate. But I think it's showing me
    > that in general I eat pretty close to
    > what I burn in a day. Some days I'm a little negative (less eaten then
    > burned), most days it's about equal, and
    > some days I binge a little and eat more than I burn. ~ This last usually
    > occurs when I go out to dinner or to someone else's house for dinner. '


    You need to get your diet to more closely match your goals. (you don't
    mention how much protein you're consuming, how many meals, etc.)

    > Another part of my problem is evening snacks: During the day and even
    > through dinner I do pretty good with not eating too much fat, only good

    fats (poly-unsaturated), and an ok
    > number of calories. But in the evenings I usually want to snack. I'm

    trying very hard to either not snack
    > or only snack on more healthy things (apple sauce with whet germ, even

    fat-free yogurt). But some times I
    > eat some junk (cookies, chocolate, etc.) anyway. It would be easier if

    that stuff just wasn't in the
    > house...but others here want it...and then I eat it.


    I find that high protein food leaves me feeling full longer.

    > I've only been at this for about 10 weeks.


    Hate to rain on your parade but:
    1. 10 week newbie probably shouldn't be giving advice.
    2. 10 weeks and you're not seeing any good results means something is WRONG
    (i.e. diet, routine, rest, etc.)

    > So I'm giving myself credit just
    > for going to the gym, learning more
    > about all this, etc.


    That's good, but people who don't see results tend to not stick with it very
    long.

    > But to see the results I want I think I have to step it
    > up and get more dedication / discipline.


    And better educated!

    > Mostly I think I have the right *ideas* but need to follow through more.
    > That is, I need to make it to the gym
    > more days per week,


    More days per week? Aren't you going 4+ days a week and still doing cardio
    on the other days? The problem isn't you're not going enough days.

    > avoid the worst of foods I eat, and keep the total
    > calories per day just a little lower.


    To lose fat you need to burn more than you consume. Either lower your
    consumption, or increase expenditure.

    > Oh: I also used to like to have a few cocktails almost daily. And these

    were
    > usually mixed with coke or
    > were beers. Now I don't drink most days and once in a while when I do I

    try
    > to have wine which is less
    > carbs than beers or cocktails with coke. ~ I've also cut out having just
    > coke as a drink. Now It's usually water.


    Steps in the right direction!

    > It's a little frustrating that even with these changes I'm pretty much the
    > same weight and body shape. But I'm hoping that with a little more time

    and a little more effort that'll change.

    It won't if you continue to follow you're current "routine". Keep doing the
    same, get the same results.

    > Well, that was a lot longer post then had in mind when I started. Hope it
    > helps or at least spurs some
    > useful responses.


    I doubt it! ;- >

    >
    >
    > "ML" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >I have been lifting for about 2 years now, I would like to step it up,

    I'm
    > >5'10, 165lbs. I am fairly slender, my goal is to bulk up and get some
    > >definition, but at the same time the only part of my that isn't really
    > >slender is my stomach area, I guess you can say I'm skinny fat;) I would
    > >like to trim that up a bit...
    > >
    > > My routine recently (for the past 6 months) has been the following:
    > > 1 - Chest / Tris
    > > 2 - Back / Bis
    > > 3 - Shoulders / Legs (sometimes i'll do shoulders one day and legs the
    > > next)
    > > *** 4 sets, 12reps,10reps,8reps,6reps for all excersises. increasing the
    > > weight as i go down in reps ***
    > >
    > > I would do the above routine and if I didn't make it one day that would

    be
    > > my rest day then just start the routine over again, so I could do chest

    /
    > > tris twice a week... I would work in abs 2x per week and do minimal
    > > cardio (15-20mins). I usually get to the gym 4-5 days a week. I

    attempted
    > > to do the hypertrophy, but honestly I don't have to dedication to be so
    > > meticulous and time to figure out everything the program calls for,

    soo...
    > >
    > > I'm asking anyone for some advice on what you might think I should

    change
    > > or modify? Nutrion wise also.... Or recommend any websites that have
    > > specific training routines... Again, I consider myself fairly slender

    but
    > > have some love handles and fat in the stomach area.... Please be

    specific
    > > on any recommendations! ! ! I have been taking creatine / glutamine and
    > > whey protein, I do try to eat as often/much as possible as i know that

    is
    > > the #1 thing that will put on my mass/muscle...
    > >
    > > THANK YOU IN ADVANCE! !
    > >
    > > nutshell222 AT hotmail.com
    > >

    >
    >
     
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