Bull Run Run 50 Miler

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by Phil M., Apr 10, 2005.

  1. Phil M.

    Phil M. Guest

    Tags:


  2. Tony

    Tony Guest

    Phil M. wrote in message ...
    >Congratulations Doug!
    >
    >If anyone's interested in seeing our super senior's results:
    >http://www.vhtrc.org/brr/2005/results.htm
    >
    >--
    >Phil M.


    I'll 2nd that. Takes grit and dedication to be up for both a 50k and 50m
    this time of year training through the northeast winter (which was
    particularly bitter this year).

    -Tony
     
  3. Phil M. wrote:
    > If anyone's interested


    No, we are not interested in forged/fake race results. Everyone knows
    that at 76 YO Doug is way too far over the hill to win anything except
    an "incontinence contest".
     
  4. You guys didn't catch the lie? The "BULL run", get it? Besides, even if
    he won it'd be like running in the special olympics, even if you win
    you're still retarded, in this case it's even if he won, he's still old.
     
  5. TenKBabe

    TenKBabe Guest

    [email protected] wrote:

    > Sorry but you are incorrect. It's failure to control your bowel
    > movements, which explains why he was the only runner in the race
    > wearing Depends. And yes, even in his soiled Depends he is still your
    > kind of guy, because I'm pretty sure the "warm feeling" gives him a
    > rod, all 1.5" of it.


    He's got you beat by 1.5".

    tkb
     
  6. Yeah, he shot off.
     
  7. Dot

    Dot Guest

    Phil M. wrote:
    > Congratulations Doug!
    >
    > If anyone's interested in seeing our super senior's results:
    > http://www.vhtrc.org/brr/2005/results.htm
    >


    Ditto from me, too or three!! I like their age groups. Sounds like it
    was some of Doug's favorite trail surface - mud ;)

    Dot

    --
    "running is a mysterious journey that we take not just to beat other
    people or to stay in reasonable physical shape - but to find out more
    about ourselves" - Owen Anderson
     
  8. True Grit

    True Grit Guest

    Where is the little ass-pimple? I wanted to personally invite/challenge
    him to Holyoke for a REAL marathon.
     
  9. >He's got you beat by 1.5".>

    You too!
     
  10. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    "Tony" <[email protected](remove)hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:%[email protected]
    > Phil M. wrote in message ...
    >>Congratulations Doug!
    >>
    >>If anyone's interested in seeing our super senior's results:
    >>http://www.vhtrc.org/brr/2005/results.htm
    >>
    >>--
    >>Phil M.

    >
    > I'll 2nd that. Takes grit and dedication to be up for both a 50k and
    > 50m
    > this time of year training through the northeast winter (which was
    > particularly bitter this year).


    Thanks folks including those worrying about my "incontinence." The two
    races were three weeks apart so I felt recovered. I have done these two
    weeks apart in past years although run the first slower. They calculated
    that the course was two miles short and added the missing back in. While
    they were adding things, they added in a shit pile of mud. Lot's of rain
    on the east coast.

    The wife asked how many hours she can sleep before I cross the line. I
    replied about 10 1/2 hours. I usually run about 9 - add 30 for the extra
    two miles and another hour for mud and lower training mileage this year.
    I took me an 1:32 more i.e 10:32. Pretty close for a swag.

    Anywho, it was fun and one of the best 50's on the east coast. A short
    run early in the morning followed by a massage. I hope I can get
    through the massage without needing a catheter.

    -DougF
     
  11. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    "Dot" <[email protected]#duh?att.net> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    > Ditto from me, too or three!! I like their age groups. Sounds like
    > it was some of Doug's favorite trail surface - mud ;)


    If it wasn't for my "screw shoes" I'd still be out there. I have had my
    share of slop these last two years so I'd better get to like mud. ;)

    -Doug
     
  12. Well boy, you going to run Holyoke so I can chew you up and spit you
    out? Then brag about it on here for years to come?

    Doug Freese wrote:
    > "Dot" <[email protected]#duh?att.net> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    > > Ditto from me, too or three!! I like their age groups. Sounds

    like
    > > it was some of Doug's favorite trail surface - mud ;)

    >
    > If it wasn't for my "screw shoes" I'd still be out there. I have had

    my
    > share of slop these last two years so I'd better get to like mud. ;)
    >
    > -Doug
     
  13. Dot

    Dot Guest

    Doug Freese wrote:
    > "Dot" <[email protected]#duh?att.net> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >
    >>Ditto from me, too or three!! I like their age groups. Sounds like
    >>it was some of Doug's favorite trail surface - mud ;)

    >
    >
    > If it wasn't for my "screw shoes" I'd still be out there. I have had my
    > share of slop these last two years so I'd better get to like mud. ;)
    >
    > -Doug
    >
    >

    For curiosity, any thoughts as to screwed road shoes vs unadulterated
    trail shoes for snow and mud? I know trail shoes are useless on slippery
    ice, since they don't dig in, and my trail shoes don't have enough flat
    surface to screw them, anyway. Most trail shoes probably accumulate mud
    and mud in the lugs rather than shedding it. I know that you've never
    used trail shoes, but thought you might have a feeling from others'
    experiences.

    I was in a lot of different snow and ice conditions (and just starting
    to get mud) this winter because of differences between this year and
    last, but also being on some trails (in mountains) that I don't usually
    do in winter. I think I saw about every traction device ever made,
    except for the cleats from Dion snowshoes. I'm just rethinking some
    things as I get a little more experience, but I think getting poles for
    the deep stuff was a good decision. I don't think screw shoes would make
    much difference there.

    Just curious as to your thoughts. Thanks.

    Dot

    --
    "running is a mysterious journey that we take not just to beat other
    people or to stay in reasonable physical shape - but to find out more
    about ourselves" - Owen Anderson
     
  14. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Well boy, you going to run Holyoke so I can chew you up and spit you
    > out? Then brag about it on here for years to come?


    Let's even the odds, we run it twice, once for warm-ups and the second
    for the big D braggin' rights.

    -DF
     
  15. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    "Dot" <[email protected]#duh?att.net> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > For curiosity, any thoughts as to screwed road shoes vs unadulterated
    > trail shoes for snow and mud?


    My friend that has 10 more years of ultra experience says the screws are
    superior. I would suggest you spend a few $'s for some screws and give
    it a try. If you don't see a difference, take them out. The screws don't
    do any harm unless you go into air or gel. I just keep and old pair
    around with screws for those ugly days.

    > I know trail shoes are useless on slippery
    > ice, since they don't dig in.


    The screws work quite well on an ice/snow combination.

    > and my trail shoes don't have enough flat surface to screw them,
    > anyway.


    I can't picture a bottom that will not allow the screws.


    > Most trail shoes probably accumulate mud and mud in the lugs rather
    > than shedding it. I know that you've never used trail shoes, but
    > thought you might have a feeling from others' experiences.


    What I saw yesterday was many with trail shoes that seemed to be
    slipping a lot more than I did. Of course I did not ask what shoe they
    were wearing or if the bottoms were worn out.

    > I was in a lot of different snow and ice conditions (and just starting
    > to get mud) this winter because of differences between this year and
    > last, but also being on some trails (in mountains) that I don't
    > usually do in winter. I think I saw about every traction device ever
    > made, except for the cleats from Dion snowshoes. I'm just rethinking
    > some things as I get a little more experience, but I think getting
    > poles for the deep stuff was a good decision. I don't think screw
    > shoes would make much difference there.
    >
    > Just curious as to your thoughts. Thanks.


    for $2-$3 worth of 3/8 hex washer head screws and a cordless drill
    (don't try to puttee them in with a hand held screw driver) and try it..
    A tiny investment in my opinion.

    -Doug
     
  16. Doug Freese wrote:

    > What I saw yesterday was many with trail shoes that seemed to be
    > slipping a lot more than I did. Of course I did not ask what shoe they
    > were wearing or if the bottoms were worn out.


    In slippery mud, the determining factor seems to be the type of rubber
    of the sole as opposed to the lug pattern. I've found Saucony's work
    pretty good but NB slips all over the place. The trade off is Saucony's
    pick up/hold the mud more than NB. A good place to test how slippery a
    shoe is, is on wet wood like a wet, mossy bridge. If it holds there, it
    will most likely hold in mud. Of course, the cold temperatures of
    snow/ice might harden the rubber and change everything!

    --
    - The Trailrunner

    Anti-Spam Alert: If you wish to reply, cut the *BS*

    Trails of the Diablo Valley
    *Running - Hiking - Nature*
    http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/6016/
     

  17. > Doug Freese wrote:



    > If it wasn't for my "screw shoes" I'd still be out there. I have had
    > my share of slop these last two years so I'd better get to like mud. ;)


    Doug, good show considering the conditions. Out here in "sunny" CA we're
    still having some serious rain for this late in the year. I did a 38M
    training run Saturday in prep for my upcoming 50M and was slippin' and
    sliddin' most of the day. My big fear for the race is that it will rain
    all week (the location is known as a mud pit when it's wet) and they'll
    cut on the oven come race day so we'll have to contend with mud and 100
    degrees! But I'm running with one of my "virgins" and the "Dirt Diva"
    herself said she wants to run with us, so it will be fun!

    --
    - The Trailrunner

    Anti-Spam Alert: If you wish to reply, cut the *BS*

    Trails of the Diablo Valley
    *Running - Hiking - Nature*
    http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/6016/
     
  18. Daniel

    Daniel Guest

    On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:46:52 GMT, The Trailrunner
    <TheTrailhead*BS*@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >Doug Freese wrote:
    >
    >> What I saw yesterday was many with trail shoes that seemed to be
    >> slipping a lot more than I did. Of course I did not ask what shoe they
    >> were wearing or if the bottoms were worn out.

    >
    >In slippery mud, the determining factor seems to be the type of rubber
    >of the sole as opposed to the lug pattern. I've found Saucony's work
    >pretty good but NB slips all over the place. The trade off is Saucony's
    >pick up/hold the mud more than NB. A good place to test how slippery a
    >shoe is, is on wet wood like a wet, mossy bridge. If it holds there, it
    >will most likely hold in mud. Of course, the cold temperatures of
    >snow/ice might harden the rubber and change everything!


    Please help me understand what you mean. I have had the experience of
    stepping on wet wood (to avoid mud) only to feel that scary half inch
    squitch sideways before traction takes over (displacing surface water?).
    But I don't get what's being said about mud at all. Isn't the issue with
    mud entirely up to how weak/fluid the substrate is? I too have been
    impatient with the wet weather in my corner of "sunny" California (northern
    Contra Costa County). The trails are often adobe mud churned up by grazing
    cattle. With deep slime are you still saying one kind of shoe sole is
    better for traction than another? Or are they only better because of
    mud-shedding properties or something?

    Thanks.
    --
    Daniel
    [email protected]
     
  19. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    "The Trailrunner" <TheTrailhead*BS*@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    > My big fear for the race is that it will rain all week (the location
    > is known as a mud pit when it's wet) and they'll cut on the oven come
    > race day so we'll have to contend with mud and 100 degrees!


    How about dry and cool? :) Which 50?

    > But I'm running with one of my "virgins" and the "Dirt Diva" herself
    > said she wants to run with us, so it will be fun!


    If you have to suffer it will be fun with the Diva. Maybe she will sing.
    ;)

    -Doug
     
  20. Dot

    Dot Guest

    Doug Freese wrote:
    > "Dot" <[email protected]#duh?att.net> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >>For curiosity, any thoughts as to screwed road shoes vs unadulterated
    >>trail shoes for snow and mud?

    >
    >
    > My friend that has 10 more years of ultra experience says the screws are
    > superior.


    ok, thanks.

    >
    >
    >>and my trail shoes don't have enough flat surface to screw them,
    >>anyway.

    >
    >
    > I can't picture a bottom that will not allow the screws.


    The lugs in the tread pattern are a little like pointed teeth or wedges
    coming down - look like triangles in profile. That is, the bottom-most
    points of sole are a series of points or lines. If you put a screw flat
    against one of those surfaces, the head will not be flat against ground.
    If you put a screw in horizontally so head is parallel to ground, it
    will not be flat against the shoe - unless you put it between the lugs,
    but then the screw head has to be longer than the lugs. I haven't
    actually compared with a screw, but it's going to have to be fairly
    aggressive. (When I get time, I'll have to try to put some pictures
    together since it's hard to see it in the manufacturer's pictures.)

    But one of the thoughts that's churning in my mind is that the Brooks
    Adrenaline ASR fits almost like the Trespass (maybe a tad snugger, but I
    can probably use thinner socks - or my feet may have been slightly
    swollen when I tried them on). Its tread pattern is less aggressive,
    iirc. It's got some flat surface where I can put some screws. The
    flatter surface may also be more comfortable on gravel roads (some have
    some fairly coarse gravel, almost cobble size; and happens to be a
    pretty place to do hill repeats on 10% slope). Last summer with the hot,
    dry weather, I could really feel the gravel through the tread / lugs in
    my Trespasses, and why I've been curious about the Cascadia since it has
    forefoot protection.

    But, alas, the Cascadia appears to be for people with neutral feet - not
    late overpronators like me. It has no torsional stability mechanism. The
    double pivots are for stepping on rocks and are close to heel, not where
    I need them. I got that info from 2 sources - Brooks directly as well as
    a PT / shoe store online (posts on RW and seems to be really
    knowledgeable about shoes).

    Which brings me back to Adrenaline ASRs as a good compromise and
    probably the best bet to try for next shoe. They have a weather
    resistant upper which might be better than Trespass in winter or on
    gritty trails (grit comes through mesh). (have about 1-1.5 yrs of
    Trespasses left)

    What I'm considering doing is getting (a) another pair of original
    Trespasses (this guy still has at least 1 pair) and a pair of Adrenaline
    ASR OR (b) same as (a) AND a pair of Cascadias to have my local PT
    look at me on a treadmill, but with the likelihood of sending them back.
    REI mail order carries mens Cascadias (no womens Brooks shoes - I
    thought these issues were settled about 20+ years ago), but our local
    REI doesn't have them at all, so there's no place that I can even look
    at them to twist them. I might be able to special order to REI and pick
    them up at store, and if they twist too easily, just return them right
    then - shouldn't involve any postage, I don't think.


    My Trespasses don't shed mud or snow well, but a more open tread - like
    a yaktrax or screws wouldn't have that issue. Screwheads are waaay
    sharper than yaktrax. There are strap-on devices like screw shoes, but
    the ones in REI were pretty wimpy. Someplace I saw some fairly
    aggressive ones that I was considering, but don't remember where.

    But then when on some of the fresh deeper snow on steep slopes, I'm not
    sure the screw heads would help much. There's a reason why Dion's has
    standard cleats as well as long cleats for their snowshoes. My
    understanding is that these can be worn separate from the snowshoes,
    like a crampon - but I'm guessing may be too aggressive for normal
    conditions.


    So, yes, if I had a pair of shoes right now with a reasonably flat
    surface - road shoes would obviously work better than trail shoes for
    this - I would just put some screws in and try. But I don't, but am
    leaning toward getting a pair that will.


    My 1 redliner friend uses screw shoes when she's not snowshoeing and the
    other uses icebugs. I've seen something like the icebug in a strap-on
    device also. I think I overhead one mention putting screws in for Lazy
    Mtn in the summer, but I'm not sure why. The really slick spot was dry
    that day. And people hike that part anyway.

    This summer I should have a chance to learn a lot more about what people
    use for shoes, gear, etc. locally since I'll be volunteering for the
    RP50/100. The RD indicated there'd be chance to pace or run part of the
    trail if I wanted when not needed at station.


    Hmmm, I did ask my question rather briefly, even if I couldn't answer
    yours briefly - sorry about that. It's obviously something I've been
    tossing around in my mind for several months and wsa just looking for
    some other thoughts.

    >
    > for $2-$3 worth of 3/8 hex washer head screws and a cordless drill
    > (don't try to puttee them in with a hand held screw driver) and try it..
    > A tiny investment in my opinion.


    AFter I get shoes with more flat surface I will. My road Adrenalines
    that I use in office have soles that are too thin for me to even
    consider running in them.

    Thanks for your comments.

    Dot

    --
    "running is a mysterious journey that we take not just to beat other
    people or to stay in reasonable physical shape - but to find out more
    about ourselves" - Owen Anderson
     
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