D
Dot
Guest
The Trailrunner wrote:
>
>
> Doug Freese wrote:
>
>> What I saw yesterday was many with trail shoes that seemed to be
>> slipping a lot more than I did. Of course I did not ask what shoe they
>> were wearing or if the bottoms were worn out.
>
>
> In slippery mud, the determining factor seems to be the type of rubber
> of the sole as opposed to the lug pattern. I've found Saucony's work
> pretty good but NB slips all over the place.
I've got a pair of Saucony trail shoes that didn't work well for me, but
its lugs are a little similar to my Trespasses, but not as slanted. I
had some NB904, which looked like it should be great on snow, but they
were terrible - slipped just walking down my driveway the first time I
tried them. In that case, I really think it was the compound they used
for the outer sole that made them so poor.
I think the type of mud, how deep, and how wet will make a difference
also. Clay / silt soils are likely to be very slick, and the clay ones
will really glob onto shoes, esp. those with rough surfaces, making
cement feet. Organic soils can also be slippery, but don't aggregate
quite that way, but won't be shed from the sole - at least you don't
pick up that much weight. If it's just a surface wetting, I can see
where screws that penetrate the slick surface and grab on subsurface
would be helpful where most rubber treads may slip. But the stuff I've
been playing in lately, I'm not convinced that a screw shoe would help
that much, but it might - goopy enough that you never have a firm
surface to grab onto - or you slip before you get there. (breakup
conditions right now so all the subsurface ice is thawing)
>The trade off is Saucony's
> pick up/hold the mud more than NB.
I think that's consistent with what I'd expect from the patterns. More
open patterns tend to shed snow / mud better. This fall I was looking at
tread patterns on car snow tires as well as fat tires used on bikes
designed for snow and sand.
>A good place to test how slippery a
> shoe is, is on wet wood like a wet, mossy bridge. If it holds there, it
> will most likely hold in mud.
Now I'll have to go find a wet, mossy bridge to test
Actually, I
think there may be one in one of my upcoming races, but I can't think of
any locally.
>Of course, the cold temperatures of
> snow/ice might harden the rubber and change everything!
The best traction in cold - whether its shoes, car or bike tires - is
usually associated with softer compounds, and they stay softer at cold
temperatures. From what I've seen, it looks like the Finns have the
corner on cold weather rubber. But the softer rubbers, in general, seem
to provide better traction on a number of surfaces since there's more
surface contact. I'm not sure if there's anything special they do for
rock climbing shoes to give them their sticky qualities. My Trespasses
definitely have more grab than my old Saucony road shoes (Grid Stabils).
Thanks for your comments, Trailrunner.
Dot
--
"running is a mysterious journey that we take not just to beat other
people or to stay in reasonable physical shape - but to find out more
about ourselves" - Owen Anderson
>
>
> Doug Freese wrote:
>
>> What I saw yesterday was many with trail shoes that seemed to be
>> slipping a lot more than I did. Of course I did not ask what shoe they
>> were wearing or if the bottoms were worn out.
>
>
> In slippery mud, the determining factor seems to be the type of rubber
> of the sole as opposed to the lug pattern. I've found Saucony's work
> pretty good but NB slips all over the place.
I've got a pair of Saucony trail shoes that didn't work well for me, but
its lugs are a little similar to my Trespasses, but not as slanted. I
had some NB904, which looked like it should be great on snow, but they
were terrible - slipped just walking down my driveway the first time I
tried them. In that case, I really think it was the compound they used
for the outer sole that made them so poor.
I think the type of mud, how deep, and how wet will make a difference
also. Clay / silt soils are likely to be very slick, and the clay ones
will really glob onto shoes, esp. those with rough surfaces, making
cement feet. Organic soils can also be slippery, but don't aggregate
quite that way, but won't be shed from the sole - at least you don't
pick up that much weight. If it's just a surface wetting, I can see
where screws that penetrate the slick surface and grab on subsurface
would be helpful where most rubber treads may slip. But the stuff I've
been playing in lately, I'm not convinced that a screw shoe would help
that much, but it might - goopy enough that you never have a firm
surface to grab onto - or you slip before you get there. (breakup
conditions right now so all the subsurface ice is thawing)
>The trade off is Saucony's
> pick up/hold the mud more than NB.
I think that's consistent with what I'd expect from the patterns. More
open patterns tend to shed snow / mud better. This fall I was looking at
tread patterns on car snow tires as well as fat tires used on bikes
designed for snow and sand.
>A good place to test how slippery a
> shoe is, is on wet wood like a wet, mossy bridge. If it holds there, it
> will most likely hold in mud.
Now I'll have to go find a wet, mossy bridge to test
Actually, Ithink there may be one in one of my upcoming races, but I can't think of
any locally.
>Of course, the cold temperatures of
> snow/ice might harden the rubber and change everything!
The best traction in cold - whether its shoes, car or bike tires - is
usually associated with softer compounds, and they stay softer at cold
temperatures. From what I've seen, it looks like the Finns have the
corner on cold weather rubber. But the softer rubbers, in general, seem
to provide better traction on a number of surfaces since there's more
surface contact. I'm not sure if there's anything special they do for
rock climbing shoes to give them their sticky qualities. My Trespasses
definitely have more grab than my old Saucony road shoes (Grid Stabils).
Thanks for your comments, Trailrunner.
Dot
--
"running is a mysterious journey that we take not just to beat other
people or to stay in reasonable physical shape - but to find out more
about ourselves" - Owen Anderson