IronDonut...first off...I like posts like this gets everyone rowled up!!! This is what an open forum is all about. =)
To some extent I agree with you. Carbon is the latest and greatest material out there. Indeed, there is a lot of money being dropped into advertising the **** out of carbon and its "benefits". I myself have broken everything from frames, handlebars, cranks, wheelsets, carbon saddles, and stems by just riding and training really hard or just plain crashing in a Crit at 35 MPH. The components are indeed somewhat fragile compared to Ti or Steel for that matter.
But what I like about carbon, despite its somewhat short life span when abused, is the weight benefit and the plain cool flashy mystic that carbon offers guys with an ego. Heck, I'll be the first to admit that when I pull up to the line at a race...I want everyone and their grandmother checking my ride out. [And they do] My bikes are dressed in carbon from head to toe.
I too have a 2005 Ti Airborne Manhatten Project that I use when doing uphill training. The reason: THE BIKE WEIGHS ALMOST 17.5 lbs. decked with carbon everything. I liken it to running with a big fat ankle weight. Ti and Steel frames definitely have their uses too. But when I do the same run on my Fondriest Top Carbon or my Orbea Orca, I shave almost 2:00 minutes off on the same exact run when on a full carbon frame.
The point I'm trying to make is, if you have the money to pay the big bucks for a really nice carbon frame; I say GO FOR IT!!! A really high end carbon can do wonders for the phsyche. =)
As for TREK. I share your opinion. In my humble opinion and from what I have seen at our riding club, the overall opinion after riding an expensive Madone for any long period of time is "TREK SUCKS"!!! No matter what Lance rides. If Lance were racing on a freaking HUFFY from KMART, he'd still kick any of our butts on a Ti, Carbon, or Steel Frame. The bike is a mere extension of the person mounted on it. You still have to motor that sucker with your own legs. Carbon just makes it easier for some to motor longer and faster.
I think that Carbon definitely has its ups and downs. But for me...its more ups than downs. [I guess because I'm sponsored by a Carbon Manufacturer and I get parts either really cheap or FREE] So in the end, I guess its all a matter of preference.
Tailwinds,
Vector7
To some extent I agree with you. Carbon is the latest and greatest material out there. Indeed, there is a lot of money being dropped into advertising the **** out of carbon and its "benefits". I myself have broken everything from frames, handlebars, cranks, wheelsets, carbon saddles, and stems by just riding and training really hard or just plain crashing in a Crit at 35 MPH. The components are indeed somewhat fragile compared to Ti or Steel for that matter.
But what I like about carbon, despite its somewhat short life span when abused, is the weight benefit and the plain cool flashy mystic that carbon offers guys with an ego. Heck, I'll be the first to admit that when I pull up to the line at a race...I want everyone and their grandmother checking my ride out. [And they do] My bikes are dressed in carbon from head to toe.
I too have a 2005 Ti Airborne Manhatten Project that I use when doing uphill training. The reason: THE BIKE WEIGHS ALMOST 17.5 lbs. decked with carbon everything. I liken it to running with a big fat ankle weight. Ti and Steel frames definitely have their uses too. But when I do the same run on my Fondriest Top Carbon or my Orbea Orca, I shave almost 2:00 minutes off on the same exact run when on a full carbon frame.
The point I'm trying to make is, if you have the money to pay the big bucks for a really nice carbon frame; I say GO FOR IT!!! A really high end carbon can do wonders for the phsyche. =)
As for TREK. I share your opinion. In my humble opinion and from what I have seen at our riding club, the overall opinion after riding an expensive Madone for any long period of time is "TREK SUCKS"!!! No matter what Lance rides. If Lance were racing on a freaking HUFFY from KMART, he'd still kick any of our butts on a Ti, Carbon, or Steel Frame. The bike is a mere extension of the person mounted on it. You still have to motor that sucker with your own legs. Carbon just makes it easier for some to motor longer and faster.
I think that Carbon definitely has its ups and downs. But for me...its more ups than downs. [I guess because I'm sponsored by a Carbon Manufacturer and I get parts either really cheap or FREE] So in the end, I guess its all a matter of preference.
Tailwinds,
Vector7
IronDonut said:I'm thinking that this carbon fiber frame trend is the latest in a long series of consumer sucker plays.
On the road bike side of the house development is near stagnant. Sure there have been some refinements here and there wheels have gotten better, they added a couple of cogs to the rear cluster but really since Shimano brought STI shifting out in the early 90s there really hasn't been a significant roadie development. In fact if you hung those new light wheels on say an original decade+ old Litespeed or Merlin Ti frame you would realise no better or worse results than if you had the latest unobtanium bling bling frame of the day.
Thats because all of this new frame **** they are pedaling (ha) is a crock. And in fact the carbon craze lead by Trek (maker of in my experience of the most fragile bikes made I've broken 3 out of the 4 Treks frames I've owned) using the logic "Well Lance rides it, it must be good". Is simply the latest sucker fad designed to part the average consumer with his money. You can't compare a pro racer with the average weekend job-bob racer or rec rider. Here is why; to a pro racer longevity is irrelevent. If they break a bike a new one appears out of thin air. If they just don't like the bike they get a new one for free.
Contrast that with your average weekend racer or rec rider who pays $1000-2000-3000 for a frame. Too much for a fragile as eggshels carbon frame which is easily damaged. Oh don't leave it out in the sun UV rays!!! Don't drop it!!! You know how I got the stickers off of my Ti frame last week? A propane torch and a metal scraper. Try that with your pansy ass carbon frame.
Now enter mountain biking. Contrasting the glacial pace of change on the road bike side mountain biking has undergone some radical improvements over the course of the last 10 years. And it is the last place that you should have a carbon frame. Come on do you really want something that fragile on a dirt bike you are going to beat the living hell out of? Just stupid.
To sum up; if you are a pro who gets bikes for free carbon is great. If you have to pay for your own stuff and want it to last for a while carbon sucks. If you have a dirt bike and you are considering carbon you should have your head examined.
Oh BTW; aluminum sucks too.
Ti for life. Suckers.