Busch & Mueller "Big Bang"---the ultimate bike light?



On Jan 28, 10:59 am, "Gooserider" <[email protected]> wrote:
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/bigbang.asp
>
> Wow. Looks very impressive. Ridiculously pricy, though. A grand for a bike
> light? Still, impressive technology.


It's good a "bright light" manufacturer has finally discovered
optics!

However, I don't think a bike headlight has any need to be as bright
as a car headlight. Unless, that its, you're descending mountain
roads at 55 mph at night.

- Frank Krygowski
 
P

Patrick Lamb

Guest
On 28 Jan 2007 08:07:44 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>
>However, I don't think a bike headlight has any need to be as bright
>as a car headlight. Unless, that its, you're descending mountain
>roads at 55 mph at night.


I expect those who ride 55 mph down fire roads and through swamps at
night will chip in shortly...

Pat

Email address works as is.
 
B

Bill Baka

Guest
Patrick Lamb wrote:
> On 28 Jan 2007 08:07:44 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>> However, I don't think a bike headlight has any need to be as bright
>> as a car headlight. Unless, that its, you're descending mountain
>> roads at 55 mph at night.

>
> I expect those who ride 55 mph down fire roads and through swamps at
> night will chip in shortly...
>
> Pat
>
> Email address works as is.


Chip.
The light looks impressive, almost too bright for a bicycle, and at a
kilobuck, way more than I would ever spend on a light. I ride at night
when it's decent outside and the meager light from my Cateye is enough
for any sane speed on a trail. About 15 MPH is my sanity limit at night
unless it is a full moon night where I don't really need the light at
all for off road.
OK, I'm nuts to ride by moonlight only, but it is nice to be able to
ride past the houses with dogs and not have the dogs even know I went by.
That light looks like it might ruin my night vision for looking to the
side for something out of the beam path.
A thousand bucks would sure allow me to trick out my ride, so compare
that to just a high rent headlight.
Anybody want to guess how much you could spend on the ultimate ride?
Start with a thousand dollar light and build a bike around it.
Not me.
Bill Baka
 
P

Pat Lamb

Guest
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 10:59:05 -0500, Gooserider wrote:

> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/bigbang.asp
>
> Wow. Looks very impressive. Ridiculously pricy, though. A grand for a bike
> light? Still, impressive technology.


Thinking about this on the way home last night; OK, your normal HID light
seems to run around $500. Is the precision optics for this really worth
another $500?

Pat
 
C

Chalo

Guest
Pat Lamb wrote:
>
> Thinking about this on the way home last night; OK, your normal HID light
> seems to run around $500. Is the precision optics for this really worth
> another $500?


I think it's very hard to justify even the minimum price of an HID
light, considering the relatively short lifespan of HID bulbs and
their high replacement costs. High flux LEDs like the Luxeon K2 and
Cree Xlamp XR-E are beginning to offer HID-like intensity at equal or
better efficiencies-- along with outstanding robustness, unprecedented
longevity, and inexpensive driver electronics. I believe that these
LEDs combined with lithium batteries (like those in the latest
generation of DeWalt cordless power tools) and built-in smart battery
management systems will characterize the next generation of high
performance bike lights.

As the performance of LEDs rises to the point that 2-4 watts really
does produce enough light for a satisfactory headlamp, there may be a
resurgence in the use of sidewall generators and dynohubs. Active
power management and ultracapacitors for standlight capability would
make such generators more useful than ever before.

Chalo
 
S

Stephen Harding

Guest
Chalo wrote:

> As the performance of LEDs rises to the point that 2-4 watts really
> does produce enough light for a satisfactory headlamp, there may be a
> resurgence in the use of sidewall generators and dynohubs. Active
> power management and ultracapacitors for standlight capability would
> make such generators more useful than ever before.


I'm currently using a B&M generator with a B&M 6V/3W
headlight and am very pleased with the lighting quality
on road or bike path. I've also run the light at 2.4W
with little difference in lighting capacity.

Since they have a model with a built in LED for standlight
purposes, it seems we're already where you think we might
go!

The only bad thing about the light is its bulb is hard
to find with only about a 100 hour lifespan. LEDs could
really help in that area.


SMH
 
G

Gooserider

Guest
"Chalo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Pat Lamb wrote:
>>
>> Thinking about this on the way home last night; OK, your normal HID light
>> seems to run around $500. Is the precision optics for this really worth
>> another $500?

>
> I think it's very hard to justify even the minimum price of an HID
> light, considering the relatively short lifespan of HID bulbs and
> their high replacement costs. High flux LEDs like the Luxeon K2 and
> Cree Xlamp XR-E are beginning to offer HID-like intensity at equal or
> better efficiencies-- along with outstanding robustness, unprecedented
> longevity, and inexpensive driver electronics. I believe that these
> LEDs combined with lithium batteries (like those in the latest
> generation of DeWalt cordless power tools) and built-in smart battery
> management systems will characterize the next generation of high
> performance bike lights.
>
> As the performance of LEDs rises to the point that 2-4 watts really
> does produce enough light for a satisfactory headlamp, there may be a
> resurgence in the use of sidewall generators and dynohubs. Active
> power management and ultracapacitors for standlight capability would
> make such generators more useful than ever before.
>
>


Funny you should mentioni that. DiNotte, makers of very nice 3W and 5W
Luxeon lights, have been looking at developing a model for use with a
dynohub. I emailed DiNotte about this and they said it was do-able, but that
the price for the light would be very high.

Mike
 
T

Tom Keats

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Stephen Harding <[email protected]> writes:
> Chalo wrote:
>
>> As the performance of LEDs rises to the point that 2-4 watts really
>> does produce enough light for a satisfactory headlamp, there may be a
>> resurgence in the use of sidewall generators and dynohubs. Active
>> power management and ultracapacitors for standlight capability would
>> make such generators more useful than ever before.

>
> I'm currently using a B&M generator with a B&M 6V/3W
> headlight and am very pleased with the lighting quality
> on road or bike path. I've also run the light at 2.4W
> with little difference in lighting capacity.
>
> Since they have a model with a built in LED for standlight
> purposes, it seems we're already where you think we might
> go!


Nevertheless, I for one do like the active power management
idea.

I think I've posted this regulator idea here before, but
what the heck, I'll do it again:
http://www.nscl.msu.edu/~daniel/regulator.html

The generator charges a rechargable battery, which
powers the lights.

With such a setup, the regular lights /are/ the standlights,
with a much longer duration than the usual little LED
standlights that shine for a few tens of seconds.
This could be particularly appreciated in foggy conditions
where penlight-battery lights don't quite cut the mustard,
but generator lights are at least adequate.

Of course in really, ~Really~ thick fog, one would want
something brighter than 3 watts can illuminate. Or
just stay off the road altogether.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
 
S

Stephen Harding

Guest
Tom Keats wrote:

> Of course in really, ~Really~ thick fog, one would want
> something brighter than 3 watts can illuminate. Or
> just stay off the road altogether.


You've got to figure out how to mount one of those tow
truck yellow flashing light bars on your bike!


SMH
 
F

Frank Miles

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Gooserider <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Chalo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> Pat Lamb wrote:
>>>
>>> Thinking about this on the way home last night; OK, your normal HID light
>>> seems to run around $500. Is the precision optics for this really worth
>>> another $500?

>>
>> I think it's very hard to justify even the minimum price of an HID
>> light, considering the relatively short lifespan of HID bulbs and
>> their high replacement costs. High flux LEDs like the Luxeon K2 and
>> Cree Xlamp XR-E are beginning to offer HID-like intensity at equal or
>> better efficiencies-- along with outstanding robustness, unprecedented
>> longevity, and inexpensive driver electronics. I believe that these
>> LEDs combined with lithium batteries (like those in the latest
>> generation of DeWalt cordless power tools) and built-in smart battery
>> management systems will characterize the next generation of high
>> performance bike lights.
>>
>> As the performance of LEDs rises to the point that 2-4 watts really
>> does produce enough light for a satisfactory headlamp, there may be a
>> resurgence in the use of sidewall generators and dynohubs. Active
>> power management and ultracapacitors for standlight capability would
>> make such generators more useful than ever before.
>>
>>

>
>Funny you should mentioni that. DiNotte, makers of very nice 3W and 5W
>Luxeon lights, have been looking at developing a model for use with a
>dynohub. I emailed DiNotte about this and they said it was do-able, but that
>the price for the light would be very high.


Interesting. The parts cost shouldn't be all that high, and the design
shouldn't be all that hard to do (speaking as an EE). What's daunting
to me is the mechanical packaging. I've got a homebrew lighting system
now (sorry, based on a large rechargable battery, halogen front, and
an array of LEDs for the rear) that's pretty good but the packaging is
servicable but _ugly_. The Solid light system exemplifies where I'd like
to go, but packaging this is (at least for me) a real challenge.

But then, IMHO I think the DiNotte lights, while nice, seem to have a
pretty high mark-up.

-f
--
 
G

Gooserider

Guest
"Frank Miles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Gooserider <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>"Chalo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]
>>> Pat Lamb wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thinking about this on the way home last night; OK, your normal HID
>>>> light
>>>> seems to run around $500. Is the precision optics for this really
>>>> worth
>>>> another $500?
>>>
>>> I think it's very hard to justify even the minimum price of an HID
>>> light, considering the relatively short lifespan of HID bulbs and
>>> their high replacement costs. High flux LEDs like the Luxeon K2 and
>>> Cree Xlamp XR-E are beginning to offer HID-like intensity at equal or
>>> better efficiencies-- along with outstanding robustness, unprecedented
>>> longevity, and inexpensive driver electronics. I believe that these
>>> LEDs combined with lithium batteries (like those in the latest
>>> generation of DeWalt cordless power tools) and built-in smart battery
>>> management systems will characterize the next generation of high
>>> performance bike lights.
>>>
>>> As the performance of LEDs rises to the point that 2-4 watts really
>>> does produce enough light for a satisfactory headlamp, there may be a
>>> resurgence in the use of sidewall generators and dynohubs. Active
>>> power management and ultracapacitors for standlight capability would
>>> make such generators more useful than ever before.
>>>
>>>

>>
>>Funny you should mentioni that. DiNotte, makers of very nice 3W and 5W
>>Luxeon lights, have been looking at developing a model for use with a
>>dynohub. I emailed DiNotte about this and they said it was do-able, but
>>that
>>the price for the light would be very high.

>
> Interesting. The parts cost shouldn't be all that high, and the design
> shouldn't be all that hard to do (speaking as an EE). What's daunting
> to me is the mechanical packaging. I've got a homebrew lighting system
> now (sorry, based on a large rechargable battery, halogen front, and
> an array of LEDs for the rear) that's pretty good but the packaging is
> servicable but _ugly_. The Solid light system exemplifies where I'd like
> to go, but packaging this is (at least for me) a real challenge.
>
> But then, IMHO I think the DiNotte lights, while nice, seem to have a
> pretty high mark-up.
>


I think DiNotte is a pretty small company, and are dealing with economy of
scale, and all that. Their AA powered batteries are comparably priced with
other equivalent lights. The Lithium Ion lights are pretty expensive though.
Still, I have no problem paying for quality and good design. DiNotte's
decision to avoid proprietary batteries with their rechargeable AA line sold
me on them.
 
C

Chalo

Guest

> But then, IMHO I think the DiNotte lights, while nice, seem to have a
> pretty high mark-up.


Funny to me that the Li-ion lights command such a premium, when the
cell voltage of Li-ion and the forward voltage of high-flux white LEDs
are a nearly perfect match. I've made my own LED lights using 3 x
NiMH cells in the same way-- no drive electronics, no driver losses,
no additional packaging or extraneous points of failure. (And no low
beam, of course.)

Chalo
 
W

Will

Guest
On Feb 5, 4:56 pm, "Chalo" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > But then, IMHO I think the DiNotte lights, while nice, seem to have a
> > pretty high mark-up.

>
> Funny to me that the Li-ion lights command such a premium, when the
> cell voltage of Li-ion and the forward voltage of high-flux white LEDs
> are a nearly perfect match. I've made my own LED lights using 3 x
> NiMH cells in the same way-- no drive electronics, no driver losses,
> no additional packaging or extraneous points of failure. (And no low
> beam, of course.)
>
> Chalo


Care to provide a link to tell us how?
 
B

Bill Baka

Guest
Chalo wrote:
>> But then, IMHO I think the DiNotte lights, while nice, seem to have a
>> pretty high mark-up.

>
> Funny to me that the Li-ion lights command such a premium, when the
> cell voltage of Li-ion and the forward voltage of high-flux white LEDs
> are a nearly perfect match. I've made my own LED lights using 3 x
> NiMH cells in the same way-- no drive electronics, no driver losses,
> no additional packaging or extraneous points of failure. (And no low
> beam, of course.)
>
> Chalo
>
>
>

The Lithium cells have more power per pound, or size, and are the latest
hot item. As long as people will pay for them the price will be up
there. The "market" target is actually cell phones (talk time) and
laptops. A friend needed a replacement for his laptop and was happy that
he got such a bargain on Ebay, only $115.00 Only when the demand goes
down, competition emerge, or a better chemistry comes out, will the
price start going down.
At least competition and a free market have these benefits.
NiMh is for us cheapskates.
Bill Baka
 
On Feb 5, 5:56 pm, "Chalo" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > But then, IMHO I think the DiNotte lights, while nice, seem to have a
> > pretty high mark-up.

>
> Funny to me that the Li-ion lights command such a premium, when the
> cell voltage of Li-ion and the forward voltage of high-flux white LEDs
> are a nearly perfect match. I've made my own LED lights using 3 x
> NiMH cells in the same way-- no drive electronics, no driver losses,
> no additional packaging or extraneous points of failure. (And no low
> beam, of course.)


Chalo, what LED did you use?

- Frank Krygowski
 
C

Chalo

Guest
Frank wrote:
>
> Chalo wrote:
> >
> > I've made my own LED lights using 3 x
> > NiMH cells in the same way-- no drive electronics, no driver losses,
> > no additional packaging or extraneous points of failure. (And no low
> > beam, of course.)

>
> Chalo, what LED did you use?


I used Luxeon I emitters and Fraen collimating optics. I coupled them
well to efficient heatsinks and drove them at currents upwards of
500mA. This was when the Luxeon III was new and pricey, so I took the
cheap option. Next time, I'll use Luxeon K2 mounted on Star PCBs.
Those are more power efficient, brighter, cheaper, and easier to mount
than the ones I used for my lights.

See my reply to Will for more information.

Chalo
 
B

Bill Baka

Guest
Chalo wrote:
> Frank wrote:
>> Chalo wrote:
>>> I've made my own LED lights using 3 x
>>> NiMH cells in the same way-- no drive electronics, no driver losses,
>>> no additional packaging or extraneous points of failure. (And no low
>>> beam, of course.)

>> Chalo, what LED did you use?

>
> I used Luxeon I emitters and Fraen collimating optics. I coupled them
> well to efficient heatsinks and drove them at currents upwards of
> 500mA. This was when the Luxeon III was new and pricey, so I took the
> cheap option. Next time, I'll use Luxeon K2 mounted on Star PCBs.
> Those are more power efficient, brighter, cheaper, and easier to mount
> than the ones I used for my lights.
>
> See my reply to Will for more information.
>
> Chalo
>

Did you design the electronics and lay out a PCB?
You sound like a budding engineer.
I have been considering designing a super efficient switching power
supply to maintain constant output from either Alkalines at 1.5 volts or
NiMh at 1.2 volts each. Lithium is too expensive and NiCads are pretty
much history.
Bill Baka
 
C

Chalo

Guest
Will wrote:
>
> Chalo wrote:
> >
> > I've made my own LED lights using 3 x
> > NiMH cells in the same way-- no drive electronics, no driver losses,
> > no additional packaging or extraneous points of failure. (And no low
> > beam, of course.)

>
> Care to provide a link to tell us how?


I composed a long and comprehensive reply to your question, but Google
Groups seems to have blackholed it. So here are some useful links for
your information;

http://www.mouldy.org/node/7
http://www.littlefishbicycles.com/bikelight/
http://ledsupply.com/k2star.php
http://www.quickar.com/lux.php?session=NdN2GjRQ
http://www.luxeonstar.com/sub_category.php?id=330&link_str=330
http://www.fraensrl.com/images/FHS_K2_datasheet.pdf
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=90339
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=47389
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=141833
http://cgi.ebay.com/Extended-Batter...ROLA-v60-v60i_W0QQitemZ320077745143QQihZ011QQ
http://cgi.ebay.com/For-Motorola-V6...ravel-Charger_W0QQitemZ130075006358QQihZ003QQ
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rapid-DESKTOP-C...60p-v60s-v60x_W0QQitemZ220079662062QQihZ012QQ

I'll be happy to discuss details with you if you like.

Chalo
 
C

Chalo

Guest
Bill Baka wrote:
>
> Did you design the electronics and lay out a PCB?


Nope. For controlled-current drive electronics, it's easier and
cheaper-- and much more compact-- to use something like this:
http://ledsupply.com/02009-sho.php (for 3V source)

Or this:
http://ledsupply.com/02012-d-350.php (for 12V source)

> You sound like a budding engineer.


I'm a machinist and prototypist by trade. I just left a private space
program that I helped to start up in 2001.

> Lithium is too expensive


I've bought several 2400mAH lithium cell phone batteries for $5 to $6
including shipping. As long as they keep letting cell phones go out
of production, there will be a steady source of cheap lithiums and
chargers in useful sizes for LED bike lights.

Chalo
 

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