Bush on WMD: None so blind as those who would not see



"Jarg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Richard Steiner" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Here in rec.travel.air, "William Wright" <[email protected]> spake unto us, saying:
> >
> > >> There are highly qualified people with impressive credentials and multiple degrees in the Bay
> > >> Area that have been unemployed for over
a
> > >> year.
> > >
> > >First there are plenty of jobs for the taking that those people are refusing to do.
> >
> > That's an oversimplication. Most of the jobs you cite are so low in effective pay that they
> > aren't seen as viable options.
> >
> > I'd love to be able to live on $10/hour, but my mortgage company says otherwise...
> >
> >
>
> Then perhaps you should move to a place that has jobs and affordable housing. One of the many
> great things about the US is job mobility.
>
> Jarg
>

It is amazing isn't it?! Here in Austin, TX, which suffered huge dot com bomb fallout, we saw a
large number of job losses. Two (2) years ago, I knew at least 15 people that got out-sized. Today,
I don't know *anyone* unemployed - sure some of them had to move to other states but only *one* of
them had to take a job at lower pay - unfortunately it was my next door neighbor and his new job
doesn't pay enough for him to have a landscaper come every week and the yard is looking a little
sad! Other than that, everyone (of my friends) is earning as much or more that they were during the
boom - but a few of them *did* have to relocate.
 
nobody wrote:
> mondaymorning wrote:
>> As I remember, Everyone thought there were WMD's. If anyone lied it was Sadam.
>
> Remember why the USA started to isult its allies ? Why do you think

(SNIP remaining democrappy propaganda)

I think she meant before the demorats got mad about Bush kicking Gore's lying ass and decided that
attacking Bush was more important than stopping mass murder, rape, etc.

--
Later Kal
----------
So dawn goes down to day. Nothing gold can stay.

-R. Frost
 
In rec.food.cooking Mike Dargan <[email protected]> wrote:
> Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
>> "james_anatidae" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> >
>>
>>>All right, simple question. Can you really say you're better off than you were four years ago?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Let's see, four years ago the economy was slowing, today the economy is growing. Yup, looks like
>> we can really say we're better off today than we were four years ago.
>>
>>
> During the Bush Boom, the economy has managed to lose 3 million jobs.

And add roughly around $22,000 worth of federal debt onto every person in this country. The economy
may be on a rebound, but as Bush's supporters said of Clinton when Bush ran against Gore, the
president has nothing to do with the economy.
 
[email protected] wrote:

> In rec.food.cooking Mike Dargan <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> >> "james_anatidae" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...
> >> >
> >>
> >>>All right, simple question. Can you really say you're better off than you were four years ago?
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> Let's see, four years ago the economy was slowing, today the economy is growing. Yup, looks
> >> like we can really say we're better off today than we were four years ago.
> >>
> >>
> > During the Bush Boom, the economy has managed to lose 3 million jobs.
>
> And add roughly around $22,000 worth of federal debt onto every person in this country. The
> economy may be on a rebound, but as Bush's supporters said of Clinton when Bush ran against Gore,
> the president has nothing to do with the economy.

Gosh and just a minute later, you talked about the "recession that started when Bush talked down the
economy" [5 Feb 2004 03:21:16 GMT]

So which is it? lol. Based on your domain, it's easy to see that Temple U isn't Harvard.
 
In rec.food.cooking john <[email protected]> wrote:

> Let's also blame Clinton for the missing WMD in Iraq.

> Too bad Bush didn't make a complete list of all the bad things he inherited from Clinton when he
> took office. then he could have warned the public.

The Repugs are just two-faced hypocrites. They love to blame Clinton for a recession that started
when Bush talked down the economy. Despite their desire to bash Clinton for Bush's receission, they
claim that Clinton had nothing to do with the eight years of record-setting prosperity we had in
this country and the best managed federal budget since WW II, but when Bush plunders the economy,
sits by and watches millions of jobs go away and be replaced with a comparatively few low-paying
jobs, that's okay because it is Clinton's fault.
 
On 02/04/2004 8:20 PM, in article [email protected], "Laurie
Laws" <[email protected]> opined:

> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> In rec.food.cooking Mike Dargan <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
>>>> "james_anatidae" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> All right, simple question. Can you really say you're better off than you were four years ago?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let's see, four years ago the economy was slowing, today the economy is growing. Yup, looks
>>>> like we can really say we're better off today than we were four years ago.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> During the Bush Boom, the economy has managed to lose 3 million jobs.
>>
>> And add roughly around $22,000 worth of federal debt onto every person in this country. The
>> economy may be on a rebound, but as Bush's supporters said of Clinton when Bush ran against Gore,
>> the president has nothing to do with the economy.
>
> Gosh and just a minute later, you talked about the "recession that started when Bush talked down
> the economy" [5 Feb 2004 03:21:16 GMT]
>
> So which is it? lol. Based on your domain, it's easy to see that Temple U isn't Harvard.
>

What do you expect from a moron who puts ketchup on his Philly Cheese Steak?

--
===========================================================================
"The first requisite of a good citizen in this Republic of ours is that he shall be able and willing
to pull his weight. That he shall not be a mere passenger," Theodore Roosevelt.
===========================================================================
 
In rec.food.cooking Steven P. McNicoll <[email protected]> wrote:

> "john" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Oh yeah, blame Clinton.
>>
>> Let's also blame Clinton for the missing WMD in Iraq.
>>

> Well, Clinton did declare Iraq had WMD. Was he lying?

No, and at the time, Saddam might very well have had WMD. Besides, Clinton did not use that as
justification for a unilateral war.
 
On 02/04/2004 7:21 PM, in article [email protected],
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> opined:

> In rec.food.cooking john <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Let's also blame Clinton for the missing WMD in Iraq.
>
>> Too bad Bush didn't make a complete list of all the bad things he inherited from Clinton when he
>> took office. then he could have warned the public.
>
> The Repugs are just two-faced hypocrites. They love to blame Clinton for a recession that started
> when Bush talked down the economy. Despite their desire to bash Clinton for Bush's receission,
> they claim that Clinton had nothing to do with the eight years of record-setting prosperity we had
> in this country and the best managed federal budget since WW II, but when Bush plunders the
> economy, sits by and watches millions of jobs go away and be replaced with a comparatively few low-
> paying jobs, that's okay because it is Clinton's fault.

Don't forget Clinton decimating the military and CIA.

The argument could be made Clinton caused 9/11.
--
=========================================================
"If they do not now accept our terms, they may expect a rain of ruin from the air the like of which
has never been seen on this earth," President Harry S. Truman.
=========================================================
 
[email protected] wrote:

> In rec.food.cooking john <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Let's also blame Clinton for the missing WMD in Iraq.
>
> > Too bad Bush didn't make a complete list of all the bad things he inherited from Clinton when he
> > took office. then he could have warned the public.
>
> The Repugs are just two-faced hypocrites. They love to blame Clinton for a recession that started
> when Bush talked down the economy.

You can't possibly be serious. Except the sad thing is, you actually are. And this from an
institution of "higher learning" as well! Nobody "talked down" the economy. The economy was an
overheated disaster in the making, in no small part thanks to no regulation of rampant fraud in many
companies since the mid 1990s. All Bush did was say the truth. I love it, one moment Bush (with his
90 percentile IQ) is the dumbest idiot in the world, the next he was "talking down" the economy,
long before he even became President.

> Despite their desire to bash Clinton for Bush's receission, they claim that Clinton had nothing to
> do with the eight years of record-setting prosperity we had in this country

Yes the prosperity bubble. Too bad the fake bubble popped, and there was a recession before Bush
took office.

> and the best managed federal budget since WW II,

Only after the 1994 elections! Thank Clinton for the 1994 election results!

> but when Bush plunders the economy, sits by and watches millions of jobs go away and be replaced
> with a comparatively few low-paying jobs, that's okay because it is Clinton's fault.

"Plunders the economy"! Wow, you must be one of Temple University's finest, Mr. Horwitz!!

What a dope.
 
On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 17:47:45 GMT, "William Wright" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Richard Steiner" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> Here in rec.travel.air, "William Wright" <[email protected]> spake unto us, saying:
>>
>> >> There are highly qualified people with impressive credentials and multiple degrees in the Bay
>> >> Area that have been unemployed for over a year.
>> >
>> >First there are plenty of jobs for the taking that those people are refusing to do.
>>
>> That's an oversimplication. Most of the jobs you cite are so low in effective pay that they
>> aren't seen as viable options.
>>
>> I'd love to be able to live on $10/hour, but my mortgage company says otherwise...
>
>I guess you are over extended then. Sell and move. Find a way to live on $10 an hour. Plenty of
>people do. I admit you probably can't afford broadband on $10 an hour. I see you are a SW analyst-
>developer type. You are competing in a world-wide market where the prevailing wage for that skill
>probably is only about $12-$13 an hour maybe less. You have to either be 3-4 times better or more
>productive or have some other rare or unique ability in order to compete at the salary that you
>want. Thats the real world. Be glad you were not eaten by a lion at the water hole.
>
>If you want to compete in this business against all the Indian and Russian SW analyst-developers
>you have to anticipate the market 5 years from now and make sure you have a plan to be an expert in
>that future market. Hint: for the near term it is network centric architecture. If you do not
>already have a plan in place to attain that expertise then you are already behind the power curve
>(which in the RAM group means you are probably going to crash).
>
>Bill Wright Computer Systems Architect [who is currently working on a project to offshore 150-200
>programmer positions :-( :-( ]
>
>>
>> --
>> -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie,
>MN
>> OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist
>Heaven!
>> Applications analyst/designer/developer (14 yrs) seeking employment.
>> See web site above for resume/CV and background.
>

Nice advice, asshole. So simplistic.

I hope when they offshore your job that you can follow your own advice.
 
On 02/04/2004 7:22 PM, in article [email protected],
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> opined:

> In rec.food.cooking Steven P. McNicoll <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "john" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> Oh yeah, blame Clinton.
>>>
>>> Let's also blame Clinton for the missing WMD in Iraq.
>>>
>
>> Well, Clinton did declare Iraq had WMD. Was he lying?
>
> No, and at the time, Saddam might very well have had WMD. Besides, Clinton did not use that as
> justification for a unilateral war.
>

He was trying to overthrow Saddam with expatriates much like Kennedy tried to overthrow Castro.
Demo's don't have the balls to get the job done.
--
======================================================================
"My fellow Americans, I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in
five minutes," Ronald Reagan.
======================================================================
 
[email protected] wrote:

> In rec.food.cooking Steven P. McNicoll <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "john" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> Oh yeah, blame Clinton.
> >>
> >> Let's also blame Clinton for the missing WMD in Iraq.
> >>
>
> > Well, Clinton did declare Iraq had WMD. Was he lying?
>
> No, and at the time, Saddam might very well have had WMD. Besides, Clinton did not use that as
> justification for a unilateral war.

Huh? Clinton Bombed Iraq in 1994, 1996, and 1998. His war on Baghdad in 1998 used more missiles than
the entire 1991 Gulf War! And let's not forget about the schools and hospitals that were bombed in
Belgrade, the invasion of Haiti, the super job he did in Somalia, and the aspirin factory bombing.
At Temple U, did you learn that "unilateral" means not alone but with 60"? Just curious. Keep it up!

"Now, let's imagine the future. What if he fails to comply, and we fail to act, or we take some
ambiguous third route which gives him yet more opportunities to develop this program of weapons of
mass destruction and continue to press for the release of the sanctions and continue to ignore the
solemn commitments that he made?

Well, he will conclude that the international community has lost its will. He will then conclude
that he can go right on and do more to rebuild an arsenal of devastating destruction.

And some day, some way, I guarantee you, he'll use the arsenal." Bill Clinton, speaking on Iraq and
Saddam Hussein - 1998 Listen to the Audio Clip: http://tinyurl.com/67rz
 
"Laurie Laws" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > In rec.food.cooking john <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Let's also blame Clinton for the missing WMD in Iraq.
> >
> > > Too bad Bush didn't make a complete list of all the bad things he inherited from Clinton when
> > > he took office. then he could have warned the public.
> >
> > The Repugs are just two-faced hypocrites. They love to blame Clinton for
a recession that
> > started when Bush talked down the economy.
>
> You can't possibly be serious. Except the sad thing is, you actually are.
And this from an
> institution of "higher learning" as well! Nobody "talked down" the
economy. The economy was an
> overheated disaster in the making, in no small part thanks to no
regulation of rampant fraud in
> many companies since the mid 1990s. All Bush did was say the truth. I
love it, one moment Bush
> (with his 90 percentile IQ) is the dumbest idiot in the world, the next he
was "talking down" the
> economy, long before he even became President.
>
> > Despite their desire to bash Clinton for Bush's receission, they claim that Clinton had nothing
> > to do with the eight
years of record-setting
> > prosperity we had in this country
>
> Yes the prosperity bubble. Too bad the fake bubble popped, and there was a
recession before Bush
> took office.
>
> > and the best managed federal budget since WW II,
>
> Only after the 1994 elections! Thank Clinton for the 1994 election
results!
>
> > but when Bush plunders the economy, sits by and watches millions of jobs
go away and be replaced
> > with a comparatively few low-paying jobs, that's okay because it is
Clinton's fault.
>
> "Plunders the economy"! Wow, you must be one of Temple University's
finest, Mr. Horwitz!!
>
> What a dope.
>
>

Probably a Sociology major!

Jarg
 
"john" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 17:47:45 GMT, "William Wright" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Richard Steiner" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >> Here in rec.travel.air, "William Wright" <[email protected]> spake unto us, saying:
> >>
> >> >> There are highly qualified people with impressive credentials and multiple degrees in the
> >> >> Bay Area that have been unemployed for over
a
> >> >> year.
> >> >
> >> >First there are plenty of jobs for the taking that those people are refusing to do.
> >>
> >> That's an oversimplication. Most of the jobs you cite are so low in effective pay that they
> >> aren't seen as viable options.
> >>
> >> I'd love to be able to live on $10/hour, but my mortgage company says otherwise...
> >
> >I guess you are over extended then. Sell and move. Find a way to live on
$10
> >an hour. Plenty of people do. I admit you probably can't afford broadband
on
> >$10 an hour. I see you are a SW analyst-developer type. You are competing
in
> >a world-wide market where the prevailing wage for that skill probably is only about $12-$13 an
> >hour maybe less. You have to either be 3-4 times better or more productive or have some other
> >rare or unique ability in
order
> >to compete at the salary that you want. Thats the real world. Be glad you were not eaten by a
> >lion at the water hole.
> >
> >If you want to compete in this business against all the Indian and
Russian
> >SW analyst-developers you have to anticipate the market 5 years from now
and
> >make sure you have a plan to be an expert in that future market. Hint:
for
> >the near term it is network centric architecture. If you do not already
have
> >a plan in place to attain that expertise then you are already behind the power curve (which in
> >the RAM group means you are probably going to
crash).
> >
> >Bill Wright Computer Systems Architect [who is currently working on a project to offshore 150-200
> >programmer positions :-( :-( ]
> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden
Prairie,
> >MN
> >> OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist
> >Heaven!
> >> Applications analyst/designer/developer (14 yrs) seeking
employment.
> >> See web site above for resume/CV and background.
> >
>
> Nice advice, asshole. So simplistic.
>
> I hope when they offshore your job that you can follow your own advice.

Hey I warned my peers and the people I mentor of this coming fact for the last several years. Move
yourself up the value chain or compete on lowest cost. I choose to predict the value chain try to
plan accordingly. You on the other hand are free to stick your head in the sand and complain about
the rising tide until it engulfs you. All the so called white collar jobs are vulnerable to offshore
competition. If you have one you have a couple of choices. Plan for it and hope it doesn't happen.
Don't plan for it and hope it doesn't happen. Which is better?

I the other words I already follow my own advice. I started in high school when I chose computing
over my true love history. The career prospects in history were flat. The prospects in computing
were exponential. My brother chose history. His career earnings and retirement contributions are a
fraction of mine. Is it my fault he chose poorly (by that measure at least)?

My advice IS SIMPLE, take charge of your own career and plan it. Most likely no one else is doing
it for you.

My advice to the original poster is genuine. If you want to stay in the IT sector you need to keep a
couple of years ahead of your cheaper competition. Either that or work cheaper. The emerging
breakthroughs in network centric architecture will create a lot of demand for that expertise. While
competitors gain expertise in out dated centralized applications a wise IT professional would be
gaining expertise in network centric, highly decentralized systems. And you should expect to do it
as a contractor rather than an employee.

Oh and don't assume that just because that is way I see the world unfolding that I like it or can do
anything substantive to prevent it. I can plan to minimize the risks to me and advise others to do
the same for themselves.
 
William Wright wrote:
> "john" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 17:47:45 GMT, "William Wright" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Richard Steiner" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>>> Here in rec.travel.air, "William Wright" <[email protected]> spake unto us, saying:
>>>>
>>>>>> There are highly qualified people with impressive credentials and multiple degrees in the Bay
>>>>>> Area that have been unemployed for over a year.
>>>>>
>>>>> First there are plenty of jobs for the taking that those people are refusing to do.
>>>>
>>>> That's an oversimplication. Most of the jobs you cite are so low in effective pay that they
>>>> aren't seen as viable options.
>>>>
>>>> I'd love to be able to live on $10/hour, but my mortgage company says otherwise...
>>>
>>> I guess you are over extended then. Sell and move. Find a way to live on $10 an hour. Plenty of
>>> people do. I admit you probably can't afford broadband on $10 an hour. I see you are a SW analyst-
>>> developer type. You are competing in a world-wide market where the prevailing wage for that
>>> skill probably is only about $12-$13 an hour maybe less. You have to either be 3-4 times better
>>> or more productive or have some other rare or unique ability in order to compete at the salary
>>> that you want. Thats the real world. Be glad you were not eaten by a lion at the water hole.
>>>
>>> If you want to compete in this business against all the Indian and Russian SW analyst-developers
>>> you have to anticipate the market 5 years from now and make sure you have a plan to be an expert
>>> in that future market. Hint: for the near term it is network centric architecture. If you do not
>>> already have a plan in place to attain that expertise then you are already behind the power
>>> curve (which in the RAM group means you are probably going to crash).
>>>
>>> Bill Wright Computer Systems Architect [who is currently working on a project to offshore 150-
>>> 200 programmer positions :-( :-( ]
>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN OS/2 + eCS +
>>>> Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! Applications
>>>> analyst/designer/developer (14 yrs) seeking employment. See web site above for resume/CV and
>>>> background.
>>>
>>
>> Nice advice, asshole. So simplistic.
>>
>> I hope when they offshore your job that you can follow your own advice.
>
> Hey I warned my peers and the people I mentor of this coming fact for the last several years. Move
> yourself up the value chain or compete on lowest cost. I choose to predict the value chain try to
> plan accordingly. You on the other hand are free to stick your head in the sand and complain about
> the rising tide until it engulfs you. All the so called white collar jobs are vulnerable to
> offshore competition. If you have one you have a couple of choices. Plan for it and hope it
> doesn't happen. Don't plan for it and hope it doesn't happen. Which is better?
>
> I the other words I already follow my own advice. I started in high school when I chose computing
> over my true love history. The career prospects in history were flat. The prospects in computing
> were exponential. My brother chose history. His career earnings and retirement contributions are a
> fraction of mine. Is it my fault he chose poorly (by that measure at least)?
>
> My advice IS SIMPLE, take charge of your own career and plan it. Most likely no one else is doing
> it for you.
>
> My advice to the original poster is genuine. If you want to stay in the IT sector you need to keep
> a couple of years ahead of your cheaper competition. Either that or work cheaper. The emerging
> breakthroughs in network centric architecture will create a lot of demand for that expertise.
> While competitors gain expertise in out dated centralized applications a wise IT professional
> would be gaining expertise in network centric, highly decentralized systems. And you should expect
> to do it as a contractor rather than an employee.
>
> Oh and don't assume that just because that is way I see the world unfolding that I like it or can
> do anything substantive to prevent it. I can plan to minimize the risks to me and advise others to
> do the same for themselves.

So you don't think much of the "Ignore the problem and it will go away" approach? ;-)

--
Later Kal
----------
So dawn goes down to day. Nothing gold can stay.

-R. Frost
 
On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 22:23:37 GMT in rec.travel.air,
William Wright <[email protected]> spake unto us, saying:

> Hey I warned my peers and the people I mentor of this coming fact for the last several years. Move
> yourself up the value chain or compete on lowest cost. I choose to predict the value chain try to
> plan accordingly.

You speak like management, not a techie. Not a compliment, I'm afraid.

> My advice to the original poster is genuine.

Your so-called unsolicited "advice" to me consisted of a couple of snide remarks and some vague
statements about the obvious nature of the future of distributed computing. Not a whole lot of
insight there.

The fact of the matter is this: a sizable number of the people who do the actual design, creation,
and support of software in the US are being driven out of work by penny-pinching management who
often don't have clue one about the long-term ramifications of outsourcing.

Many of us will remain out of work for some time, and some of us will probably have to move on to
other careers in order to survive.

Meanwhile, people like you are continuing to shovel more and more of that workload out the door.

I wonder how you manage to sleep at night. Maybe you spend a lot of time counting the links in your
value chain? :)

--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN OS/2 + eCS + Linux +
Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! Applications analyst/designer/developer (14
yrs) seeking employment. See web site above for resume/CV and background.
 
"Richard Steiner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 22:23:37 GMT in rec.travel.air, William Wright <[email protected]> spake unto
> us, saying:
>
> > Hey I warned my peers and the people I mentor of this coming fact for
the
> > last several years. Move yourself up the value chain or compete on
lowest
> > cost. I choose to predict the value chain try to plan accordingly.
>
> You speak like management, not a techie. Not a compliment, I'm afraid.

No I am a techie that understands that this is a business and not a Star Trek fantasy. Where
computers exist to support business needs and not just to give us something to play with. Where
people have to plan their own careers because most companies couldn't care less. Where most
companies will lay you off in a heart beat if it is in their economic interest to do so. Where most
levels of government are busy creating disincentives to hiring Americans in the first place.

I got out of system support about ten years ago. Something that I much prefer to what I am doing
now. I told myself "in another 10 years I will be competing with people half my age and half my
salary" and decided to change career paths.

>
> > My advice to the original poster is genuine.
>
> Your so-called unsolicited "advice" to me consisted of a couple of snide remarks and some vague
> statements about the obvious nature of the future of distributed computing. Not a whole lot of
> insight there.

Fair enough. But I would say most architects and developers haven't the vaguest notion of what a
true network centric solution looks like. I keep seeing centralized applications running on
distributed computers labled as network centric. They are not. My experience is that there is a void
here and where there is a void there is opportunity.

>
> The fact of the matter is this: a sizable number of the people who do the actual design, creation,
> and support of software in the US are being driven out of work by penny-pinching management who
> often don't have clue one about the long-term ramifications of outsourcing.

No they are being driven out of work because they are not cost competitive in a global market where
capable highly educated work forces are available for substantially less cost. No amount of whining
is going to change that. They are in nations that are determined through national policy to create
an indigenous SW industry. Airbus did this in the jetliner business. Airbus is here to stay (for the
foreseeable future) and Douglas is out of the jet liner business.

I used to clean my own roof. Now I pay someone else. That is outsourcing on a personal level. I
looked at the business case of what it cost me to do it, what the risks vs. the cost of hiring some
one and yada yada yada. Bottom line is the business case showed that I should have someone else do
it and use my freed up time for something else like say overtime work.

Most companies do not build their own office equipment or run their own parcel express service or
make their own paper. Yet at one time these were all true. The first true business computer was
built by a British catering company (J. Lyons & Co.).

One of my first jobs in this business was maintaining operating system code for a non-computer
company. At some point in the late 1980s they decided that they weren't in the computer business and
it was no-longer economical to try and maintain their own operating system mods. A whole job
category went away. Everyone of my peers with the title operating system programmer either became a
system analyst, system administrator or application developer.

>
> Many of us will remain out of work for some time, and some of us will probably have to move on to
> other careers in order to survive.

That is exactly the point. To be successful in this employment market means doing your homework and
choosing careers and career paths with maximum protection. The trends in development are clear.
There is a great deal of hungry world-wide competition in SW development. I see no practical way of
stopping it.

>
> Meanwhile, people like you are continuing to shovel more and more of that workload out the door.

Sorry if I gave the impression that I had any say in it. I don't. :-( The systems I am designing are
having their development purchased from offshore suppliers. I have no say it the matter. I am seeing
some of my friends being sent out the door. My advice to them is go into architecture as those jobs
seem safer for the time being. Even so those jobs are not that secure and you need to keep a weather
eye towards the horizon.

>
> I wonder how you manage to sleep at night. Maybe you spend a lot of time counting the links in
> your value chain? :)

I sleep just fine thank you. I know I have done all I can to protect my career and my family from
being destroyed in the globalization meat grinder and I share my observations with my family and
friends to do what they may with it.

BTW my firm currently has 1260 job openings posted on Monster.com. Jobs on Monster are ones that
could not be filled internally. It looks like almost 50 of them were posted yesterday. Some of them
are IT jobs. All the IT jobs are either for niche specialties such as computing security specialist
or embedded software engineer or they require US Citizenship or both. None are in the Twin Cities I
am afraid. However I see about 100 IT jobs for other firms in the Twin Cities area so perhaps it is
not as grim as it seems.

>
> --
> -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie,
MN
> OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist
Heaven!
> Applications analyst/designer/developer (14 yrs) seeking employment.
> See web site above for resume/CV and background.
 
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