Bush or Kerry or ???

[davidmc]

Top Ten Excuses of People Who Don’t Vote:

1) "Nobody is talking about the issues."

Truth: “Actually they are talking about the issues but I’m just too lazy to read newspapers or look up their policy positions on their websites. Instead I’ll just spend my free time watching TV and playing video games. I learn about the candidates from watching the political ads. Its easier.”

2) "All the parties are the same."

Truth: No, they are not the same. The last four years have shown how different the parties are. We would not have made the mistake of going to Iraq if the Dems were running the country. Isolated strikes on key targets, perhaps. But wholesale war and occupation? No. That’s just one of the differences.

3) "All politicians are corrupt and out to line their own pockets"

Truth: Actually John Kerry is already filthy rich and his wife is even richer. He doesn’t want or need more money. He wants to serve his country which he did by volunteering to serve in Vietnam (even though he could have easily gotten out of it). He has served in government for 30 years when he could have been getting richer by running a corporation or being a lawyer. Money is not his motivation. He is motivated by serving his country.

4) "I don’t agree with the positions of the two major parties"

Truth: “I want a party that I am in 100% agreement with. I am just that self-centered and politically immature. The world should revolve around me.”

5) "The parties don’t talk about things that matter to me."

Truth: "Like, I want an in-ground pool in my backyard and a flat screen TV. But the politicians don’t seem to be addressing this in their promises. Who cares about the economy, healthcare, the environment, business regulation, and Iraq? What about me? What about what I want? What about my in-ground pool?"

6)"We need a third party candidate."

“Nevermind that a third party president could never function with our political system. Nevermind that I haven’t bothered to vote for third party candidates in local or state elections. Nevermind that there are no third party congressmen or senators. Nevermind that I never get politically involved on the grassroots level to help create a third party. I just want the president to be from a third party in order to create absolute gridlock when we try to pass a budget. That would be fun, wouldn’t it?”

7) "We need a third party candidate. I don’t care what they stand for."

“Even if its some guy without experience and a comprehensive platform. Just to tell the major parties how much they suck. I like to waste my vote.”

8) "If I vote I am choosing between the lesser of two evils."

Truth: Nobody is perfect and neither are you. Do you expect only saints to run for office? Do you expect Jesus to run for office? Even if he did, the republicans would denounce him as a socialist, liberal, anti-business radical who supports terrorists and prostitutes and you wouldn't vote for him anyway.

9) "The election doesn’t matter"

Truth: “Nothing really matters to me. I am incapable of forming an intelligent opinion on any of the issues and I really don’t know what the issues are to begin with. As long as gas prices stay low, everything is good in my little corner of the world.”

10) "I’m just an ignorant dumbass."

Truth: True

I believe they are basically the same in regards to being beholden to buisiness interest's. As Nader has said (he was beyond reproach until recently, in regards to consumer advocacy, now i believe he accepts "donations" frm buisiness interest's) the two parties are selfserving, no matter who wins the presidency, because they still control the other two branches of the gov't- ergo republicrats. They decide who gets hearing time- Raytheon, General Dynamics, GE, or Joe Citizen. Who do you think they are going to pick to be able to get "face time" in front of a committee? It's not going to be Joe Citizen. Follow the money, ring a bell? Only two parties to divide the taxpayer $ up into? Thats great for them. So i'm voting for the "lesser of two evils" & holding my nose as i do it. Do you mean to tell me that you think everything is marvelous w/ a two party system?

 

[TrekDedicated]

2) "All the parties are the same."

Truth: No, they are not the same. The last four years have shown how different the parties are. We would not have made the mistake of going to Iraq if the Dems were running the country. Isolated strikes on key targets, perhaps. But wholesale war and occupation? No. That’s just one of the differences.

3) "All politicians are corrupt and out to line their own pockets"

Truth: Actually John Kerry is already filthy rich and his wife is even richer. He doesn’t want or need more money. He wants to serve his country which he did by volunteering to serve in Vietnam (even though he could have easily gotten out of it). He has served in government for 30 years when he could have been getting richer by running a corporation or being a lawyer. Money is not his motivation. He is motivated by serving his country.

I think you've been playing video games buddy. John Kerry says he would have gone into Iraq as well and would have been in the same situation, probably even making things worse. He would have gotten the same intelligence Bush got, so shoosh.

As for #3.... Wow. I want to laugh. Doesn't want anymore money? That is BS. If money isn't his motivation, please explain his numerous summer homes, multiple SUVs, multiple several thousand bicycles, and amongst other things...

Wait he served in Senate? Definitely all those bills and legislation he created are amazing. He has soo much to show from his years in the Senate. (sarcasm)
He may have been in the Senate for 30 years, but he has maybe done a couple years worth of actual work.

 

[zapper]

He may have been in the Senate for 30 years, but he has maybe done a couple years worth of actual work.

See he really only wants to serve his country. That explains why he's been absent from his job as late. .We all know he has no use for money in his life thats why he married that poor girl from the trailer park.

 

[Saucy]

As for #3.... Wow. I want to laugh. Doesn't want anymore money? That is BS. If money isn't his motivation, please explain his numerous summer homes, multiple SUVs, multiple several thousand bicycles, and amongst other things....

Yes, he is already rich. That was my point. Incidentally Shrub also owns all of the above, and more.

He may have been in the Senate for 30 years

John Kerry has NOT served in the senate for 30 years. He has served for 20 years in the senate. Learn your facts, little one.

Trek, I normally wouldn’t waste my time debating with a child but my protective instincts compel me to respond. I feel sorry for you much as I would a toddler who has fallen flat on his face on the playground.

You have already embarrassed yourself in other threads. Posting in TDF topics without even knowing about the Lanterne Rouge revealed you for the Hack that you are. Truly embarrassing and you deserved the royal flaming you received. You continue to reveal your ignorance every time you post. I suggest you refrain from placing yourself in a similar position in the political threads. You are out of your element. Come back to the forums after you have moved out of your dorm room, voted, paid taxes for a few years and educated yourself about these issues. For example you may want to learn about the senatorial service of your presidential candidates before you open your mouth again.

Posting such childish and simplistic trite is a disservice to yourself and the valuable internet bandwith you consume.

I suggest you go to the Teen Forum where you belong and leave complicated adult discussions to the adults. While you are playing in the sandbox, here are some more terms for you to learn:

Bidon
Musette
Voiture balai

 

[TrekDedicated]

Yes, he is already rich. That was my point. Incidentally Shrub also owns all of the above, and more.



John Kerry has NOT served in the senate for 30 years. He has served for 20 years in the senate. Learn your facts, little one.

Trek, I normally wouldn’t waste my time debating with a child but my protective instincts compel me to respond. I feel sorry for you much as I would a toddler who has fallen flat on his face on the playground.

You have already embarrassed yourself in other threads. Posting in TDF topics without even knowing about the Lanterne Rouge revealed you for the Hack that you are. Truly embarrassing and you deserved the royal flaming you received. You continue to reveal your ignorance every time you post. I suggest you refrain from placing yourself in a similar position in the political threads. You are out of your element. Come back to the forums after you have moved out of your dorm room, voted, paid taxes for a few years and educated yourself about these issues. For example you may want to learn about the senatorial service of your presidential candidates before you open your mouth again.

Posting such childish and simplistic trite is a disservice to yourself and the valuable internet bandwith you consume.

I suggest you go to the Teen Forum where you belong and leave complicated adult discussions to the adults. While you are playing in the sandbox, here are some more terms for you to learn:

Bidon
Musette
Voiture balai

I'm quoting your 30 years.

FYI, just because I haven't been following the Tour de France for 80 years like you must be, I have to learn sometime. YES, I am young (20).

Another thing, I pay taxes, I work. I actually get out in the work world and do my part to better myself most people.

How is saying, that Kerry has been in the Senate for 30, oops, I mean 20 years (just using the data you gave me oh Holy One), and really done nothing childish? He has pretty much done nothing. If by me saying that is childish, you need to grow up and learn what real work is.

I bet you feel tough try to condescend me through an internet forum.

I do vote, not in a presidential election yet because of my age at the time, but come Nov. I will.

I'm glad a (D) decided to protect me, so which 'rich' person are you going to basically rob and give me his/her money? I'll expect a check. Wait, will your welfare cover that?

So when you cut the defense budget and then 'respond' to terrorist attacks, how are you going to protect me? Try being assertive and not backing down for what you believe in (ie Bush), but that would show us who you truly are.

Yes, I am young (20), like I said before. I'm not old and can still see my feet, I will admit, sometime my arguments are not as solid as they can be, but being in school and still learning about politics, I have to start somewhere. But obviously since you took the time to respond to my accusations, it struck a nerve.

Now if you'll excuse, I'm going to go ride and prepare for my bike races this weekend. And guess what, I won't be the Lanterne Rouge. Then, I'm going to come back to my dorm room, see what patronizing thing you are going to say to me this time, contemplate responding to you, and then do my homework.

Bush '04

P.S.

Some terms for you in plain old English

Shut.
The.
F*ck.
Up.

 

[Jakebrake]

Actually, I was a little surprised to find out you are only 20 TD, I would have guessed much older. It's nice to see someone as young as you getting involved and taking an interest in the issues that confront us today. Good luck with your races this weekend.

 

[Saucy]

I'm quoting your 30 years.

No. I said he served in government for 30 years, not the senate. Read.

Shut.
The.
F*ck.
Up.

Kiss your momma with that mouth? Don't they teach you to respect your elders in school? I'm 80 years old, for heaven's sake!

If you don't like people talking to you in a condescending manner, I suggest you take that same approach when dealing with others. I responded the way I did because you respond to people rudely and personally insult them CONSTANTLY. THAT is why someone gave you a smackdown in the TDF threads. It had nothing to do with you not knowing Lanterne Rouge. It had to do with YOUR rude and patronizing tone. Yet when others respond in the same manner, you cry wolf and get nasty. If you want respect, I suggest you deal with people respectfully.

End of my conversation with you.

 

[TrekDedicated]

No. I said he served in government for 30 years, not the senate. Read.



Kiss your momma with that mouth? Don't they teach you to respect your elders in school? I'm 80 years old, for heaven's sake!

If you don't like people talking to you in a condescending manner, I suggest you take that same approach when dealing with others. I responded the way I did because you respond to people rudely and personally insult them CONSTANTLY. THAT is why someone gave you a smackdown in the TDF threads. It had nothing to do with you not knowing Lanterne Rouge. It had to do with YOUR rude and patronizing tone. Yet when others respond in the same manner, you cry wolf and get nasty. If you want respect, I suggest you deal with people respectfully.

Funny, you attack my accuracy of years, but you don't defend John Kerry's record, or I should say lack there of.

They teach us to respect people who respect us. Momma isn't at school, come on, you should know this. You said I live in a dorm!

I would like some examples of my personally insulting them, excluding the Lantern rouge incident. Just PM me with the examples or just post them either way. THANKS! (cause I'm curious and probably have good reason)

End of my conversation with you.

Thank you for telling the forum you are done with me. You'll be back.

 

[Beastt]

I'm getting the feeling that if the Bush people attempted to promote him based on his merits and the Kerry people did the same with Kerry, this would be one of the least active threads on the forum. It seems neither of them have much to crow about so everything is based on attacking the opponent. And both have a lot of ammunition on that front.

 

[dalronathos]

First of all let me say just vote please, it is a shame that we live in a country that values freedom and people so often take for granted those freedoms. Having been to several other countries and met people who have never been allowed to vote or choose anything about their life it is a shame that less than half of our country will vote for president this year. As far as Bush or Kerry I am one of those people who if I had it to do over again would have voted for McCain in the primaries last time. But Bush is definately a better choice than Kerry. It kills me that Kerry can get up there and say we need affordable health insurance and then choose a running mate who cues doctors(and that is the only thing Edwards has done as a lawyer look at his record). I know that greedy doctors have plenty to due with health care prices but come on how much do you think a person who goes to school for 8 years does a 3-7 year residency/fellowship and works 60-80 hours a week plus call deserves to make. I say we live in a free market make as much as you can. I do not think that most people understand exactly how hard being a doctor is. Bush has made plenty of mistakes but going into Iraq was not one of them. I am also half arab so I know plenty of Arabs and I know plenty of Jews and lord knows I know plenty of Americans. Americans do not realize how much hatred there is in the middleeast towards Americans. Not hatred like we have in this country between whites and blacks or southerners or yankees or golfers and Martha Burke. They hate you like if you were on fire they would try to put it out with gasoline and a blowtorch. And do not fool yourself into thinking it is just a few becasue it is most, They will take our money for gas they will take our money for foreign aid(which the US gives more money to every middle eastern country than any other country on earth donates to them) and then they will keep that money from the people who are starving and use it to buy weapons to kill us or Isreal. Go to the middle east see for yourself how much hatred there is. Sometimes the way to deal with hatred is to kill everyone who hates, that stops them from teaching 3 year olds to hate us. But that is just what I have seen maybe if we be really nice to them and let there students come to our universities the next generation will not return to the middle east and use the knowledge they learned from us to destroy the world. The endgame for most Arab countries is the destruction of Isreal and the U.S.A.

 

[davidmc]

Actually, I was a little surprised to find out you are only 20 TD, I would have guessed much older. It's nice to see someone as young as you getting involved and taking an interest in the issues that confront us today. Good luck with your races this weekend.

Please tell mre you're not a republican!!!, because if you are you need to pretext your message by stating- "thank goodness, another pro-republican poster- how wonderful", before you get all warm & fuzzy & come off like you have no vested interest in trek's post's

 

[davidmc]

just a reminder, 1000 casualties as of today w/ a republican in office.

"Still, 1,000 is a grim milestone.

The conflict in Iraq has claimed almost three times the number of Americans lost in the entire Persian Gulf War. And this time, the vast majority of U.S. deaths — all but 138 — came after major combat operations were declared over. “Mission Accomplished,” read a banner on the aircraft carrier where President Bush spoke on May 1, 2003.

Sixteen months later, the fighting goes on. So do the funerals."
Have a nice day

 

[Saucy]

It seems neither of them have much to crow about so everything is based on attacking the opponent. And both have a lot of ammunition on that front.

Kerry has plenty to crow about. His career could end today and he would have a lot to be proud of. I will post more on his achievements in future but I've already frittered away enough time today. In the meantime I suggest you all visit www.johnkerry.com to see his record. And by all means read all the books that document Shrub's merit, or lack thereof.

Okay, Beastt let's see your cards:

1. Who are you voting for?

2. Explain to us how your candidate merits more consideration than Kerry. List his/her achievements relative to Kerry's record of service: education, military service, political achievements etc.

 

[Saucy]

Do you mean to tell me that you think everything is marvelous w/ a two party system?

Just to say that I hope you didn’t think my previous post about non-voters wasn’t directed at you. I am happy to hear you are voting for Kerry. Yay!

As Nader has said (he was beyond reproach until recently, in regards to consumer advocacy, now i believe he accepts "donations" frm buisiness interest's)

I thought I heard he was receiving funding from Republican sources also (since a vote for Nader is one less vote for Kerry). As was Al Sharpton for some reason.

I believe they are basically the same in regards to being beholden to buisiness interest's.

No, they are not the same. Firstly, as much as my Liberal self hates to admit it, business interests are important. Business forms the backbone of the economy and jobs are important. Most people's retirement plans are comprised of stock in those big businesses. Does that mean that government should kow-tow to business interests? No. Should energy policy be formulated by Enron executives? No. It’s a balancing act – balancing business interests vs. citizens interest. I believe that the Democrats have a more balanced position. Republicans in general are overly obsessed with deregulation and we can look to Enron, PG&E and the Californian economy to see what happens when we let big business run amok. The Dems, while formulating some policy favorable to business also balances that with environmental and consumer interests.

Please read about John Kerry’s positions on moving jobs overseas, environmental regulation (opposes drilling in the arctic wildlife refuge) and prescription drug negotiation. You will see that his policies are not always favorable to big business. These are just a few I can think of –I’m sure there are plenty more on his website.

Do you mean to tell me that you think everything is marvelous w/ a two party system?

The problem with our political system is not the two party system. There are already a few other choices: Green Party, Libertarians are just a couple, and guess what? Nobody votes for them!

Even if a formidable“third party” were to arise from the ashes, what guarantee is there that this party will have a platform that coincides with your political philosopy? What guarantee is there that this third party won’t become influenced by big business or other corruptive influences? People talk about a “third party” like its some kind of panacea for all of the problems with our democracy. A third party won’t fix anything.

The problem with democracy in america is complacency and ignorance. Americans are fat and happy and stupid with their flat screen tv’s and SUV’s and cheap gas. They don’t give a **** about the impact of our policies on other nations, even on their fellow citizens. Nobody cares about politics as long as their bottom line is higher than last year and they can use their tax refund to buy their bratty kid $200 nikes. Americans are ignorant and get all their news from soundbites on TV. Policians get away with all their **** because nobody is paying attention and when they find out about it, they just shrug their shoulders and say “that’s the way it is” and return to their effing X-box and play GTA or do whatever mind-numbing activity they have planned for the night.

So i'm voting for the "lesser of two evils" & holding my nose as i do

There is no such thing as a perfect party. And the Dems are by no means perfect. BI recognize that democracy is about compromise. One must compromise certain desires in order to fulfill others. I vote for the dems, because on balance, I agree with most of their positions and they are in the best position to execute their policy. Even if a party existed which had a platform coinciding exactly with my political beliefs, nobody would vote for them. I am realistic enough to recognize that.

I’m not sure why I am debating with you since you are voting for Kerry anyway. It just seems like you’re one of the few people around here who isn’t INSANE and is actually capable of a discussion without flaming. Its nice having a civilized discussion, isn't it?

 

[Jakebrake]

Please tell mre you're not a republican!!!, because if you are you need to pretext your message by stating- "thank goodness, another pro-republican poster- how wonderful", before you get all warm & fuzzy & come off like you have no vested interest in trek's post's

Why yes, I vote Republican and Libertarian. I've never hid the fact that my views are conservative/libertarian. It matters not a whit to me if TD were either a Republican or a Democrat, or a *snicker* "progressive" or an "independent". I think the fact that he is involved and aware of the politcal process at an early age is a good thing. Too much of the younger generation couldn't even tell you who their congressman or senators are, much less who is the Vice President of the United States. <shrug>

 

[dalronathos]

Look and see how many americans died in the major battles of the civil war, it does not take many battles to reach 1000. People die in wars.
It is a shame but it was a known possibilty to all the men and women who enlisted. There is no draft every one of the soldiers who are in service enlisted. My best friend has been to Iraq(twice), Afghanistan, and the Phillipines since 9/11 so I do not look lightly on death. Kerry is the worst type of democrat. He is the type that believes if we are really nice to people, give them all of our money, and do not have the best defense in the world that the rest of the world will love us. That is not the way of the world. Do you people not realize that in Iraq 2 years ago if we were having a discussion like this, those of us who disagreed with the Government or the religious leaders would at best have been jailed, and likely killed. Do you think that is how the world is supposed to be. I love people, I think they should be free, and I think we should all live in a wonderful happy place where our worst problems are carbon or aluminum or a mix, I hope I live long enough to see that world. The first step to getting there is to remove the people who would do everything in their power to prevent such a world. Tyrany and oppression are wrong.

just a reminder, 1000 casualties as of today w/ a republican in office.

 

[zapper]

Kiss your momma with that mouth? Don't they teach you to respect your elders in school? I'm 80 years old, for heaven's sake!

Look Granny don't get your "depends" in a bunch, leave Trek's mother out of it.

If you don't like people talking to you in a condescending manner, I suggest you take that same approach when dealing with others.

Yeah you're the same one who whined to the administrator about me...You are one to talk. You've been smacked down so many times that your wrinkles have straightened out.

Saucy - 10) "I’m just an ignorant dumbass." Truth: True

This is spot on! Bravo!

 

[davidmc]

Why yes, I vote Republican and Libertarian. I've never hid the fact that my views are conservative/libertarian. It matters not a whit to me if TD were either a Republican or a Democrat, or a *snicker* "progressive" or an "independent". I think the fact that he is involved and aware of the politcal process at an early age is a good thing. Too much of the younger generation couldn't even tell you who their congressman or senators are, much less who is the Vice President of the United States. <shrug>

OK, I remember your views being as such but it seems a little convienient for him to share your views & then you welcome him w/ open arms w/o mention of those shared views. I, er, guess I'll accept that. Thanks. Incidentally, I'm a progressive veteran & damn proud of it !!!

 

[Jakebrake]

OK, I remember your views being as such but it seems a little convienient for him to share your views & then you welcome him w/ open arms w/o mention of those shared views. I, er, guess I'll accept that. Thanks. Incidentally, I'm a progressive veteran & damn proud of it !!!

TD's been around for awhile, he's just been absent from "soap box" forum these past few weeks. I think he's been hanging out in the teen forum lately.

 

[TrekDedicated]

I think he's been hanging out in the teen forum lately.

As in girls' dorm rooms.....


I've been settling into school.