Bush or Kerry or ???



I am guessing you all are cyclists...So you breathe the air a lot, right? You even breathe deeper than most people. So, even if you are selfish and don't care about others, you should care about yourself and take a good hard look at Bush's environmental policies - it affects the air you breathe. I won't go into too many details because the information is readily available all over the web, but Bush has rolled back more than 300 environmental protections in the last 3.5 years - even those of his father, Reagan, and Nixon! Under his watch, mercury controls on power plants have been loosened, protected forests are being opened to logging and drilling (you like to mtn. bike?), and fuel efficiency and pollution standards have been weakened (he is even suing California over it's own standards - what ever happened to the Republican ideal of states' rights?). So take a hard look at the facts, please, and make your decision based on those, not on rhetoric about BS flip-flopping and swift boat lies...find out the FACTS, spend some time doing it, and then vote your choice. Thanks, and have a great ride!
 
David - it's a pretty damning editorial.

davidmc said:
Anybody seen this one?:
The newspaper in Crawford Texas, which endorsed Dubya in 2000, is now endorsing Kerry. Here's the editorial, and it's a good one:

Kerry Will Restore American Dignity

2004 Iconoclast Presidential Endorsement

Few Americans would have voted for George W. Bush four years ago if he had promised that, as President, he would:

Empty the Social Security trust fund by $507 billion to help offset fiscal irresponsibility and at the same time slash Social Security benefits.
Cut Medicare by 17 percent and reduce veterans' benefits and military pay.
Eliminate overtime pay for millions of Americans and raise oil prices by 50 percent.
Give tax cuts to businesses that sent American jobs overseas, and, in fact, by policy encourage their departure.
Give away billions of tax dollars in government contracts without competitive bids.
Involve this country in a deadly and highly questionable war, and
Take a budget surplus and turn it into the worst deficit in the history of the United States, creating a debt in just four years that will take generations to repay.
These were elements of a hidden agenda that surfaced only after he took office.

The publishers of The Iconoclast endorsed Bush four years ago, based on the things he promised, not on this smoke-screened agenda.

Today, we are endorsing his opponent, John Kerry, based not only on the things that Bush has delivered, but also on the vision of a return to normality that Kerry says our country needs.

<edit>

In those dark hours after the World Trade Center attacks, Americans rallied together with a new sense of patriotism. We were ready to follow Bush's lead through any travail.

He let us down.

When he finally emerged from his hide-outs on remote military bases well after the first crucial hours following the attack, he gave sound-bytes instead of solutions.

<edit>

Bush said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction trained on America. We believed him, just as we believed it when he reported that Iraq was the heart of terrorism. We trusted him.

The Iconoclast, the President's hometown newspaper, took Bush on his word and editorialized in favor of the invasion. The newspaper's publisher promoted Bush and the invasion of Iraq to Londoners in a BBC interview during the time that the administration was wooing the support of Prime Minister Tony Blair.

Again, he let us down.

Once and for all, George Bush was President of the United States on that day. No one else. He had been President nine months, he had been officially warned of just such an attack a full month before it happened. As President, ultimately he and only he was responsible for our failure to avert those attacks.

We should expect that a sitting President would vacation less, if at all, and instead tend to the business of running the country, especially if he is, as he likes to boast, a "wartime president." America is in service 365 days a year. We don't need a part-time President who does not show up for duty as Commander-In-Chief until he is forced to, and who is in a constant state of blameless denial when things don't get done.

<edit>

Kerry's four-point plan for Iraq is realistic, wise, strong, and correct. With the help from our European and Middle Eastern allies, his plan is to train Iraqi security forces, involve Iraqis in their rebuilding and constitution-writing processes, forgive Iraq's multi-billion dollar debts, and convene a regional conference with Iraq's neighbors in order to secure a pledge of respect for Iraq's borders and non-interference in Iraq's internal affairs.

<edit>

The re-election of George W. Bush would be a mandate to continue on our present course of chaos. We cannot afford to double the debt that we already have. We need to be moving in the opposite direction.

John Kerry has 30 years of experience looking out for the American people and can navigate our country back to prosperity and re-instill in America the dignity she so craves and deserves. He has served us well as a highly decorated Vietnam veteran and has had a successful career as a district attorney, lieutenant governor, and senator.

Kerry has a positive vision for America, plus the proven intelligence, good sense, and guts to make it happen.
That's why The Iconoclast urges Texans not to rate the candidate by his hometown or even his political party, but instead by where he intends to take the country.

The Iconoclast wholeheartedly endorses John Kerry.

Now THAT'S an endorsement. :)
 
BiGjOeD said:
I am guessing you all are cyclists...So you breathe the air a lot, right? You even breathe deeper than most people. So, even if you are selfish and don't care about others, you should care about yourself and take a good hard look at Bush's environmental policies - it affects the air you breathe. I won't go into too many details because the information is readily available all over the web, but Bush has rolled back more than 300 environmental protections in the last 3.5 years - even those of his father, Reagan, and Nixon! Under his watch, mercury controls on power plants have been loosened, protected forests are being opened to logging and drilling (you like to mtn. bike?), and fuel efficiency and pollution standards have been weakened (he is even suing California over it's own standards - what ever happened to the Republican ideal of states' rights?). So take a hard look at the facts, please, and make your decision based on those, not on rhetoric about BS flip-flopping and swift boat lies...find out the FACTS, spend some time doing it, and then vote your choice. Thanks, and have a great ride!
It's unfortunate that @ 1/2 of all likely voters (at least the one's who r polled) only give a damn about paying little or no taxes & expect the gov't to operate. What really gets me is the one's who are hollerin', the most, for tax breaks are some of the same one's who swear by the military & everything they are told to do. They would have our military do all of these grand projects & want them to do it w/o thier tax revenue. The military needs revenue to operate & here are the #'s for fiscal 2005. They astounded me, when i saw them. You can't have both so, just pay your taxes & quit your whining. :) Before you come back to savage me w/ your words, keep in mind; i'm former military.
http://www.warresisters.org/2005_piechart.pdf
Incidentally, yes, i've heard that bush has rolled back air quality standards to mollify the energy providers at the expense of joe/jane citizen
 
BiGjOeD said:
I am guessing you all are cyclists...So you breathe the air a lot, right? You even breathe deeper than most people. So, even if you are selfish and don't care about others, you should care about yourself and take a good hard look at Bush's environmental policies - it affects the air you breathe. I won't go into too many details because the information is readily available all over the web, but Bush has rolled back more than 300 environmental protections in the last 3.5 years - even those of his father, Reagan, and Nixon! Under his watch, mercury controls on power plants have been loosened, protected forests are being opened to logging and drilling (you like to mtn. bike?), and fuel efficiency and pollution standards have been weakened (he is even suing California over it's own standards - what ever happened to the Republican ideal of states' rights?). So take a hard look at the facts, please, and make your decision based on those, not on rhetoric about BS flip-flopping and swift boat lies...find out the FACTS, spend some time doing it, and then vote your choice. Thanks, and have a great ride!

Thanks for reminding everyone that this election is about more than Iraq.

The economy, the deficit, healthcare, the environment, welfare, gun control, law enforcement, education, these are important issues as well and it amazes me how little attention is being paid to it. Why aren't these issues being discussed here? I guess because posters wouldn't be able to work their ridiculous WWII statistics into the conversation, their favorite pasttime when the subject turns to foreign policy.

I was a Dean supporter

How do you guys think the Dems would have fared in this campaign if Dean were the nominee? I've been thinking about this lately. Dean could have really hammered Bush on Iraq since he opposed the war from the get-go.
 
Saucy said:
How do you guys think the Dems would have fared in this campaign if Dean were the nominee? I've been thinking about this lately. Dean could have really hammered Bush on Iraq since he opposed the war from the get-go.
Yeah, I started losing sleep over that one the day after the primaries... the primaries managed to whittle the Democratic choices down to the least flavorful, least clearly prinicpled choice. Of course, at the time, the philosophy governing the party talk was one of risk aversion -- Kerry's a safe bet, yadda yadda.

Well, we got what we paid for; we miscalculated big time. Next to Bush's devil-may-care-full-speed-ahead smirk, Kerry looks more and more like a toothless quasi-centrist with the charisma of a butter churn. What anti-Bush voter isn't wishing we had an equally flashy goofball to support?

Kerry may be the wiser choice (in this humble liberal's opinion), but he sure ain't inspiring. We could use a candidate who's as firmly and vocally liberal as Bush is conservative... I wish we libs could get our spines back and quit apologizing for our perspectives.
 
lokstah said:
Yeah, I started losing sleep over that one the day after the primaries... the primaries managed to whittle the Democratic choices down to the least flavorful, least clearly prinicpled choice. Of course, at the time, the philosophy governing the party talk was one of risk aversion -- Kerry's a safe bet, yadda yadda.

Well, we got what we paid for; we miscalculated big time. Next to Bush's devil-may-care-full-speed-ahead smirk, Kerry looks more and more like a toothless quasi-centrist with the charisma of a butter churn. What anti-Bush voter isn't wishing we had an equally flashy goofball to support?

Kerry may be the wiser choice (in this humble liberal's opinion), but he sure ain't inspiring. We could use a candidate who's as firmly and vocally liberal as Bush is conservative... I wish we libs could get our spines back and quit apologizing for our perspectives.
Yes, the electorate seems to value toothless sound bites (e.g.-iraq=terrorism) over substance. They want someone who will shred the social contract w/glee(deficit/debt/soc.sec.)
 
davidmc said:
Yes, the electorate seems to value toothless sound bites (e.g.-iraq=terrorism) over substance. They want someone who will shred the social contract w/glee(deficit/debt/soc.sec.)
I'm with Robert Reich. The shyness of the political Left has worked itself into a self fulfulling cycle. The centrist tendencies of the Republicans' opposition are attributed to the belief that outspoken liberalism is politically unpopular, which might be true at times and in certain places; it'll likely remain true, though, if the left refuses to assert itself and continues to slink into a defensive paranoia.

Just as the Republican Party has managed to shuffle truly outspoken conservatives to its very forefront, the left needs to work harder to promote some charismatic, inspiring, and unafraid liberals. The left needs to regrow some teeth.
 
lokstah said:
I'm with Robert Reich.
This guy???Robert Reich, the former U.S. labor secretary under President Bill Clinton, believes people who follow God pose a more significant threat to the modern world than terrorists do.

:confused: :(
 
lokstah said:
Nice find, David!
Yeah...Nice find David..This hometown news media giant you refer to has a circulation of ....425? Wow, what a find...Hey, how about canvasing the local school newspapers, you might find something of interest there too... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
zapper said:
This guy???Robert Reich, the former U.S. labor secretary under President Bill Clinton, believes people who follow God pose a more significant threat to the modern world than terrorists do.

:confused: :(
What can I say? I love the guy. Oh, and that's a distorted false quotation if I've ever seen one.
 
zapper said:
Yeah...Nice find David..This hometown news media giant you refer to has a circulation of ....425? Wow, what a find...Hey, how about canvasing the local school newspapers, you might find something of interest there too... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Since when did you, or anyone else here, hold the opinion of media moguls at such high esteem? This paper has far less to prove, and far less money to gain, than US News or the Wall Street Journal. I'd have thought you quite respectful of publications less likely to fall within the massive liberal conspiracy, anyways.
 
lokstah said:
What can I say? I love the guy. Oh, and that's a distorted false quotation if I've ever seen one.
Yo, limerickman..uh I mean Lokstah...it ain't a quote there elwood...see any quotation marks on my post? C'mon are you using peabody's glasses? :p
 
zapper said:
Yeah...Nice find David..This hometown news media giant you refer to has a circulation of ....425? Wow, what a find...Hey, how about canvasing the local school newspapers, you might find something of interest there too... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:[/QUOTE
Thats Crawford, never been there probably never will. He probably lives on a compund comfortabably away from the one stoplight town ( like Neverland Ranch). He has said the worst thing that could happen to him is he would have to go back there
 
zapper said:
Yo, limerickman..uh I mean Lokstah...it ain't a quote there elwood...see any quotation marks on my post? C'mon are you using peabody's glasses? :p
That's why I called it a false one. You know, a non-quote designed to convey the impression of one, when really, it came from a toilet, or a potty-mouthed talk radio host, at least.

Don't knock Reich because he's 4' 8" or so.
 
lokstah said:
This paper has far less to prove, and far less money to gain, than US News or the Wall Street Journal. I'd have thought you quite respectful of publications less likely to fall within the massive liberal conspiracy, anyways.
yeah, since the kinko's in Abilene (memogate) is about 182 miles from crawford, it would be a hell of alot easier to bribe a smalltime paper than a larger outlet...Really, this is no big find and you have to know that...Soros could buy this paper a million times over..palease.... :rolleyes:
 
davidmc said:
zapper said:
Yeah...Nice find David..This hometown news media giant you refer to has a circulation of ....425? Wow, what a find...Hey, how about canvasing the local school newspapers, you might find something of interest there too... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:[/QUOTE
Thats Crawford, never been there probably never will. He probably lives on a compund comfortabably away from the one stoplight town ( like Neverland Ranch). He has said the worst thing that could happen to him is he would have to go back there
Yeah and your guy lives a 1313 mockingbird lane!
 
zapper said:
This guy???Robert Reich, the former U.S. labor secretary under President Bill Clinton, believes people who follow God pose a more significant threat to the modern world than terrorists do.

:confused: :(
I agree w/ him as far as wars go. Well over 1/2 if not 3/4 of all wars are between people who believe thier god is right & the other persons god is wrong (eg-Bush/BinLaden is a good example) It does'nt help matters when Bush said "God told me to..." It only incites our enemies to escalate thier actions w/ a renewed zeal(he's giving them ammo).I agree w/ the separation of church/state as outlined in our founding documents. Anybody w/me? ;)
 
lokstah said:
That's why I called it a false one. You know, a non-quote designed to convey the impression of one, when really, it came from a toilet, or a potty-mouthed talk radio host, at least.
Actually it was a headline in Worldnet Daily, a very fair and balanced source...Really, do you think that I would listen to Imus????

Don't knock Reich because he's 4' 8" or so.
I won't, he is just a moron....
 
zapper said:
yeah, since the kinko's in Abilene (memogate) is about 182 miles from crawford, it would be a hell of alot easier to bribe a smalltime paper than a larger outlet...Really, this is no big find and you have to know that...Soros could buy this paper a million times over..palease.... :rolleyes:
Big find? I said nice find. Meaning it made me feel nice. I appreciate, on a fuzzy emotional level, a small-town Texas paper from the town that Dubya made endorsing his Democratic opponent from New England. Is it the friggin' Rosetta Stone? Is it Deep Throat's bedside diary? Nah, it's just... nice.

It restores a touch of my faith in humanity. Nice, indeed.

:)
 
zapper said:
Actually it was a headline in Worldnet Daily, a very fair and balanced source...
I'd love to read that story, if you can find it. I'm guessing there's more to it all than that. Whether he was quoted saying something rash or not, he's quite a reasonable man and hardly a radical, so simmer down now, simmer down. A moron? Puh-lease. That's just partisan monkeyball tossing.

And see? David treated it like a quote.