Bush Plans Iran Invasion

[MountainPro]

i remember watching that great show 'American Idol', the one you stole from us and gives you a vent for your hatred of British people. More people in Yanksville watch that every night than watched Alexander.

Shows you how much you know your own people. I was also in a local electrical store the other day, and i noticed the refridgerators. You can now buy an 'American' fridge by different manufacturers. Its twice the size of all the others. I know your average family size isnt particularly large, it must be your appetites and your stomachs. This thing was the size of a van. Why do you eat so much? Why do you sit infront of the TV in such large numbers with such large stomachs and such large fridges?

 

[davidmc]

Right…you pick some real winners there smutley…Look, lets just look at just one stinker of a movie…”Alexander” took in 34 mil in the states and 88 miloverseas and yes that includes “youropeeins” how about a stupid cartoon move “the incredibles”…23mil in one weekend overseas… I could go on, but I’ve already made my point and that is you are full of doggy do….

You are correct but the movies are, more often than not, made by scurrilous, left-wingers, like me; in California-the "left-coast" to you Incidentally, is'nt there a waiting period before a movie can be released oversea's ?

 

[davidmc]

i remember watching that great show 'American Idol', the one you stole from us and gives you a vent for your hatred of British people. More people in Yanksville watch that every night than watched Alexander.

Shows you how much you know your own people. I was also in a local electrical store the other day, and i noticed the refridgerators. You can now buy an 'American' fridge by different manufacturers. Its twice the size of all the others. I know your average family size isnt particularly large, it must be your appetites and your stomachs. This thing was the size of a van. Why do you eat so much? Why do you sit infront of the TV in such large numbers with such large stomachs and such large fridges?

We can't go "out of doors" thanks to Ashcroft & Patriot Act I. Just wait, Patriot II is right @ the corner & the neocon's are "itching" to enact it (ever read Orwell's-1984?). They can use it as a "lead pipe" on dissenter's like myself. So sad, they (Repub's) talk about freedoms as they are taking them away.

 

[jhuskey]

Right…you pick some real winners there smutley…Look, lets just look at just one stinker of a movie…”Alexander” took in 34 mil in the states and 88 miloverseas and yes that includes “youropeeins” how about a stupid cartoon move “the incredibles”…23mil in one weekend overseas… I could go on, but I’ve already made my point and that is you are full of doggy do….

I would have responded to this thread sooner but I was busy making several trips to my overstocked mega refrigerator for a snack whilst I cleaned my squirrel rifle.
I shot my self in the hand probably because of a drug induced stupor.
I'll be ok as soon as get treatment with the local faith healer.

But seriously, I will agree too many Americans are over weight. That I do concede.

 

[davidmc]

Ah, more numbscullery from you I see...What you have posted here means NOTHING! Our Country of FREEDOM has a large prison population because of our FREEDOM…nitwit. If one were to live in a “police state” one would live in fear of doing anything thus less criminals thus lower prison population. But because of leftist organizations who want to skew the law toward the “criminal” they are embolden thus more crime is committed.

If I am not mistaken didn’t Russia have a dramatically increased crime rate once the iron curtain turned to cloth?

No, your feeble little post missed the point…Sorry spot.

Lastly, If our country is not a beacon of freedom, why does everyone want to come here. Why do all these transatlantic merkian wunnabees keep posting about merica? Why, I’ll tell you and I hope your canine eyes can comprehend this. Because they are all envious. They want to live in our country. They want to watch our movies. They want to listen to our music and deep down inside in a place they don’t want to talk about, they want to salute our President…Hail to the Chief!

My goal is to be a lawyer for the ACLU & go around the country ripping up 10 commandments monuments, by the roots; mind you, that are erected on public lands/spaces I'm not joking here.

 

[Carrera]

Well, this is a fairly recent phenomenon. Just after 9/11 you had people all over the globe laying flowers outside U.S. embassies. Even in places where Americans weren't normally very liked, there were outpourings of sympathy.
The decison to attack Afghanistan may not have been 100% popular but it was understood, under the circumstances.
However, once it was realised Bush had exploited 9/11 in order to gain advantage in Iraq the damage to the U.S. reputation took a foothold. Treatment of prisoners of war that infringed upon civilized conventions of warfare then caused immense damage as did the hypocrisy and arrogance of the political leadership in the country.
I think the final blow is Bush being endorsed by the electorate. The only possible justification I can detect on that score is maybe Americans feared a draft under John Kerry and felt that would be less likely under Bush.
Of course, we Brits and Spanish e.t.c. have made similar mistakes in the past with regard to imperialism. Human rights in Britain has always dragged behind modern Europe so the U.S. has to decide whether to follow in those footstops or rescue itself from the current regime.

man, thats funny. do you have a reverse view of everything? Why would anyone want to live in a country that is the laughing stock of the world, one who has neither earned respect or deserves respect?

A lot of merkins have this belief that people want to live in thier stinking gun ridden, drug ridden, crime ridden, idiot ridden shite hole.

Why live in the United Federal Republics of Yankshire when you could choose 100's of countries where the culture doesnt evolve around burgers in front of the TV 24/7. Everything you have as a country and a people you have stolen from others.

You really live in a dream world my man...zapped once too many times in the brain i think..

 

[Carrera]

I'd love to do a one to one with Bush on TV with regard to Christian doctrine.
I mean, he's totally breaking the most fundamental concepts of Christian teaching. These are tolerance, meekness, humility, not judging others e.t.c. As for the notion of war as a biblical policy how about, "He who lives by the sword will die by the sword." (i.e. hate is a mutually destructive force).
I'm not religious myself any more (in the traditional sense) but I do have friends who go to evangelical church. They are decent people who live according to their beliefs and practise their system of values.
Bush is a hypocrite, plain and simple. This is what incences people where he's concerned.
"By their fruits you will know them, the saying goes."
Anyone who believes Bush is a man of God, take a trip to a hospital in Iraq where you'll see 8 year old children with their limbs blown off or scarred for life. Consider that well over a thousand of his own country men have been killed to secure his oil supplies and many thousands more U.S. soldiers psychologically damaged for life or with missing limbs.
Not satisfied with that, he now intends to mount a bombing campaign against Iran next Summer.

Absolutely 100%.
Bush talks about being Christian and supposedly being Christian.
is it Christian to invade another country, kill innocent people ?
Is it Christian to execute people by capital punishment ?

You know of course that Bush's brand of "christianity" is the Judeo-Christian tradition ?
Eye for an eye, stuff.
His Christianity is neither Roman Catholic or Protestant (as in reformed churches).
His "christianity" is the evangelical kind - which is focussed on the Rapture and other such nonsense.
It's a flag of convenience - his so-called christianity.

As a Roman Catholic, you'd think that perhaps someone with my beliefs would
endorse Bush's social policy of marriage first, anti-abortion etc.
His social policy (in respect of the issues that I have highlighted) are worthless, if he goes around starting wars with nations who never attacked his.

His brand of christianity - is an abomination.

You know he's an alcoholic.
And presumably you know how he kicked his drinking habit ?
He was "born again" in a Holiday Inn by a travelling Preacher.
Now I don't have an issue with a man controlling a problem - in fact I'd credit him for overcoming his addiction.
But seriously, can you really trust a guy who gets his instruction from a travelling preacher ?

I think he is a con artist - he is the last person who I could consider to be a
Christian.

 

[limerickman]

I'd love to do a one to one with Bush on TV with regard to Christian doctrine.
I mean, he's totally breaking the most fundamental concepts of Christian teaching. These are tolerance, meekness, humility, not judging others e.t.c. As for the notion of war as a biblical policy how about, "He who lives by the sword will die by the sword." (i.e. hate is a mutually destructive force).
I'm not religious myself any more (in the traditional sense) but I do have friends who go to evangelical church. They are decent people who live according to their beliefs and practise their system of values.
Bush is a hypocrite, plain and simple. This is what incences people where he's concerned.
"By their fruits you will know them, the saying goes."
Anyone who believes Bush is a man of God, take a trip to a hospital in Iraq where you'll see 8 year old children with their limbs blown off or scarred for life. Consider that well over a thousand of his own country men have been killed to secure his oil supplies and many thousands more U.S. soldiers psychologically damaged for life or with missing limbs.
Not satisfied with that, he now intends to mount a bombing campaign against Iran next Summer.

RTE showed a great documentary last night - about David Hicks.
David Hicks is an Aussie - who was, according to the USA, captured in Afghanistan and was subsequently interred in Cuba.

His father has been campaigning for access to his son.
Hicks has been refused access to his lawyer throughout his captivity.

However the footage showed the statements that Bush made in the immediate aftermath of the attack on Afghanistan.
"Either you're with us or against us" "All people held in Quantanemo are evil people", "This is a fight against Evil" "This conflict is about Good and Evil",
"We represent that Good, they represent the Evil".

The yanks pulled a great stunt.
David Walker Lindh was captured in Afghanistan - he was not moved to Cuba but was instead given access to legal defence and was found guilty and sentanced to 20 years.
The anomaly is that none of the other 600 or so people in Cuba have been given access to a lawyer, nor has any evidence been produced to convict those people.

Bush talks about justice, democracy etc.
The heart of democracy is predicated on due process.
If a democracy doesn't hold these principles then it represents the Evil, it claims to oppose.

 

[Olasnah]

For all of those who aren't from the USA, keep in mind one thing: WE KNEW Bush would start a war with Iraq, EVEN BEFORE 9/11. It was part of his campaign in 2000 that Clinton/Gore was weak on Iraq, and that a tougher stance was required. Only WAR could result from this change in direction. Personally? I knew the Bush's people would find a way to START that war somehow. I didn't vote for Bush, I voted for Gore, because I had a pretty good idea that Gore was intelligent, and would NOT want a war with Iraq, and he had a good chance at continuing or recovering the ecnomic prosperity we were enjoying with Clinton.

9/11 was a shock, and I do remember the international sympathy for us at the time. It warmed my heart very much, I still remember even many of the middle eastern countries sentiments at the time, and I still think they were genuine. I thought that this was a chance for America to seize upon this and reach new levels of peace, cooperation, and economic prosperity throughout the world. A visionary leader could have seen this and the world would have been better off. However, there is a little nagging thought in my head that Bush's people 'allowed' 9/11 to occur for the purpose mentioned above. I think most Americans feel this is the case too, at least those who are against the war anyway. At any rate, the exploitation of 9/11 is evidence enough that something is being withheld from the public about that attack.

As for Iran? I can see a limited strike against nuclear facilities, but I imagine most are far underground, and would be hard to hit without direct involvement of troops. I doubt that Iran is stupid enough to build above ground or even slightly below, knowing how fond we are of bunkerbusting weapons.

 

[limerickman]

For all of those who aren't from the USA, keep in mind one thing: WE KNEW Bush would start a war with Iraq, EVEN BEFORE 9/11. It was part of his campaign in 2000 that Clinton/Gore was weak on Iraq, and that a tougher stance was required. Only WAR could result from this change in direction. Personally? I knew the Bush's people would find a way to START that war somehow. I didn't vote for Bush, I voted for Gore, because I had a pretty good idea that Gore was intelligent, and would NOT want a war with Iraq, and he had a good chance at continuing or recovering the ecnomic prosperity we were enjoying with Clinton.

9/11 was a shock, and I do remember the international sympathy for us at the time. It warmed my heart very much, I still remember even many of the middle eastern countries sentiments at the time, and I still think they were genuine. I thought that this was a chance for America to seize upon this and reach new levels of peace, cooperation, and economic prosperity throughout the world. A visionary leader could have seen this and the world would have been better off. However, there is a little nagging thought in my head that Bush's people 'allowed' 9/11 to occur for the purpose mentioned above. I think most Americans feel this is the case too, at least those who are against the war anyway. At any rate, the exploitation of 9/11 is evidence enough that something is being withheld from the public about that attack.

As for Iran? I can see a limited strike against nuclear facilities, but I imagine most are far underground, and would be hard to hit without direct involvement of troops. I doubt that Iran is stupid enough to build above ground or even slightly below, knowing how fond we are of bunkerbusting weapons.

That's a pretty balanced message that you have posted.

A lot of people were sympathetic to the USA in the immediate aftermath of
Sept 11th.
In fact, I would surmise that every non-American country would have done what was necessary to combat a threat of terrorism.
My country (Ireland) even went as far as having a national day of mourning on the 14th September 2001.

But subsequent actions by your goverment squandered that international goodwill.
Some of us, who opposed the notion of a Bush goverment, said that this goverment was devisive and that they were hell bent on causing trouble
regardless.
Paul O'Neill, Richard Clark and others, who have nothing to gain out of criticising the Bush goverment have been clear that the Busg gov. were intent on picking a fight with Iraq.

The result of the November 2nd 2004 election - unfortunately sends a message that the majority of Americans endorse Bush - and in a large part his entire foreign policy including the invasion of Iraq, Quantanemo etc.
Democracy is the enactment of the will of the people.
The will of the American people has been to re-elect a President and his policies.

The international community have noted this and will act in accordance with this decision.
I think that it is reasonable to say that the international community cannot abide Bush or his policies.
For a lot of non-Americans his policies smack of imperialism and unilaterialism.

Thus, with this in mind, moves are already in train where the international community can voice it's disapproval of Bush's policies.
Watch the money markets - watch international trade with the USA.
In both, the international community can have a direct impact and can voice it's disagreement with US foreign policy.
Already this is happening.

 

[Olasnah]

Thus, with this in mind, moves are already in train where the international community can voice it's disapproval of Bush's policies.
Watch the money markets - watch international trade with the USA.
In both, the international community can have a direct impact and can voice it's disagreement with US foreign policy.
Already this is happening.

I hope so. I WANT the United States to prosper, but not at the expense of everyone else. I'm afraid however, that the rest of the world may not have the ability to resist us, not at first anyway. Yes there will be some economic resistance, but there may come a time in the next few years where Military power is the only real force in the world. (if it wasn't always) IF a war with Iran occurs, and as such, a draft of the American populace comes with it, (and is even 'slightly' supported by the public) you will see things switch to a full war footing the likes of which WW2 never saw. The United States will become a tremendously dangerous force of Empire, with no political restrictions. Things can change quickly, and I see this looming. I think the evildoers in our own country will make it that way, just as ****** did with Germany.

The problem? I can't do much about it. For that, I am sorry. Unfortunately I think like probably most people in this country do, in that, while the policies of our government are not desirable, they are better than the alternative---the end of our way of life. For many, going down fighting might be a better alternative. This feeling is well-permeated throughout the USA. Most Americans DO feel that war in the Middle East was inevitable, and perhaps somewhat necessary. (Some will argue and have argued, it IS a matter of survival, not of how nice you are to your neighbors, but who SURVIVES) It is ironic, that a German citizen prior to the outbreak of WW2 probably echoed similar sentiments in a letter to friend or family just as I am on the Internet. It makes me finally understand why many Germans fought so hard against the inevitable, even when they knew their leadership was misguided. I pray that I don't find myself 20-30 years from now fighting against invaders in the ruins of my own home town, but I think this is likely.

 

[limerickman]

I hope so. I WANT the United States to prosper, but not at the expense of everyone else. I'm afraid however, that the rest of the world may not have the ability to resist us, not at first anyway. Yes there will be some economic resistance, but there may come a time in the next few years where Military power is the only real force in the world. (if it wasn't always) IF a war with Iran occurs, and as such, a draft of the American populace comes with it, (and is even 'slightly' supported by the public) you will see things switch to a full war footing the likes of which WW2 never saw. The United States will become a tremendously dangerous force of Empire, with no political restrictions. Things can change quickly, and I see this looming. I think the evildoers in our own country will make it that way, just as ****** did with Germany.

The problem? I can't do much about it. For that, I am sorry. Unfortunately I think like probably most people in this country do, in that, while the policies of our government are not desirable, they are better than the alternative---the end of our way of life. For many, going down fighting might be a better alternative. This feeling is well-permeated throughout the USA. Most Americans DO feel that war in the Middle East was inevitable, and perhaps somewhat necessary. (Some will argue and have argued, it IS a matter of survival, not of how nice you are to your neighbors, but who SURVIVES) It is ironic, that a German citizen prior to the outbreak of WW2 probably echoed similar sentiments in a letter to friend or family just as I am on the Internet. It makes me finally understand why many Germans fought so hard against the inevitable, even when they knew their leadership was misguided. I pray that I don't find myself 20-30 years from now fighting against invaders in the ruins of my own home town, but I think this is likely.

That's a pretty dark vista, you paint.
You obviously believe that the Bush goverment are hell bent on trying to continue on their cruscade.

I think history tells us that no matter how powerful a country/race might be, that all previous 67 empires that have existed throughout history, have all failed.

They failed because - as Professor Niall Ferguson of Oxford Univ. England wrote - they become complacent.
The people, instead of discerning the problems within that empire, become complacent and they accepted the road laid out by the powers in question.

I don't think the average American is a warmonger.
But the perception has been created, that in voting in a President hell bent on war, the American people must too be warmongers.

I wouldn't wish to see a USA V The Rest contest - because the rest will win.
Some Americans consider every non-American an enemy.
That is their preogative.
If a critical mass of this type of thinking decides that the rest of the world is the enemy - and decides that it wants to take the rest, on - then you could well find the scenario you depicted.

 

[davidmc]

I hope so. I WANT the United States to prosper, but not at the expense of everyone else. I'm afraid however, that the rest of the world may not have the ability to resist us, not at first anyway. Yes there will be some economic resistance, but there may come a time in the next few years where Military power is the only real force in the world. (if it wasn't always) IF a war with Iran occurs, and as such, a draft of the American populace comes with it, (and is even 'slightly' supported by the public) you will see things switch to a full war footing the likes of which WW2 never saw. The United States will become a tremendously dangerous force of Empire, with no political restrictions. Things can change quickly, and I see this looming. I think the evildoers in our own country will make it that way, just as ****** did with Germany.

The problem? I can't do much about it. For that, I am sorry. Unfortunately I think like probably most people in this country do, in that, while the policies of our government are not desirable, they are better than the alternative---the end of our way of life. For many, going down fighting might be a better alternative. This feeling is well-permeated throughout the USA. Most Americans DO feel that war in the Middle East was inevitable, and perhaps somewhat necessary. (Some will argue and have argued, it IS a matter of survival, not of how nice you are to your neighbors, but who SURVIVES) It is ironic, that a German citizen prior to the outbreak of WW2 probably echoed similar sentiments in a letter to friend or family just as I am on the Internet. It makes me finally understand why many Germans fought so hard against the inevitable, even when they knew their leadership was misguided. I pray that I don't find myself 20-30 years from now fighting against invaders in the ruins of my own home town, but I think this is likely.

Do nothing about it? You are Boba Fett !!!(only joking)The "fight them on their own turf" analogy has alot of merit. Bunker busting bombs on Iranian nuclear plants which are conducting practices in viol. of IAEA guidelines has merit. My issue w/ Bush is his misleading the American public, thinking we would'nt find out about his ulterior motives-money (his all time favorite, i might add ) & the furtherance of his PNAC agenda. Incidentally, anybody want to buy any dollar's before this admin makes them completely worthless either by their current economic policies or war.

 

[Olasnah]

Do nothing about it? You are Boba Fett !!!(only joking)The "fight them on their own turf" analogy has alot of merit. Bunker busting bombs on Iranian nuclear plants which are conducting practices in viol. of IAEA guidelines has merit. My issue w/ Bush is his misleading the American public, thinking we would'nt find out about his ulterior motives-money (his all time favorite, i might add ) & the furtherance of his PNAC agenda. Incidentally, anybody want to buy any dollar's before this admin makes them completely worthless either by their current economic policies or war.

Boba Fett needs money first!, but interestingly enough, Boba Fett had a cool little short story written about him in one of those Star Wars books that depicted him as a very pro-Empire type, who believed more in the rule of law rather than right vs. wrong. (He has a neat conversation with Princess Leia about this while she was held in Jabba's palace). Great story, wish I could remember the author of it...

ANYWAY, If we use bunker busting bombs to destroy Nuclear sites, or even commando raids, you will see Iran respond in kind. They have nuclear material, and the means to probably place it (detonate) somewhere where it will do great harm to the USA. If we do risk war with Iran, it will be full-out war,,,I don't think any pinpoint attacks are going to work. Besides, the entire Middle East will be more or less honor-bound to rise against us as a whole. We may not be able to survive that. (I can only imagine how Mid-east people living in the USA would react) I'm sure we could annhilate Iran's military overnight, but not their people, and unlike Iraq, there won't be any questions about our motives if we invade. Everybody and their kids will be planting roadside bombs. We would need an army 1-million men strong to even 'think' about a ground invasion. Bombing? Too great a risk. I think if we are smart, we will let Iran make the next move politically, and see if we can catch them in the act and 'then', MAYBE, a strike would be justified by the International community.

 

[limerickman]

I don't think that anyone has an issue with the USA prospering or being prosperous.

However, us foreigners have an issue when it comes to US imperialism.
I think that since Bush has been in office that US imperialism has been an objective - dressed up as war on terrorism, routing out WMD etc.

 

[Olasnah]

I don't think that anyone has an issue with the USA prospering or being prosperous.

However, us foreigners have an issue when it comes to US imperialism.
I think that since Bush has been in office that US imperialism has been an objective - dressed up as war on terrorism, routing out WMD etc.

I totally agree. For me, this move on Iraq was so distant from having anything to do with 9/11, I couldn't even understand how it could politically materialize. Everyone knew that Saddam Hussein was about as religious as Joseph Stalin, so to have religious fanatics in his camp was an impossible idea, would simply NOT happen! Al Qaeda and Saddam would never have cooperated with each other. Maybe in the lower echelons there were agreements to let them find shelter or pass through his country, but every country in the Middle east is guilty of this. Bottom line: We invaded a sovereign country and deposed its leadership for no cause whatsoever other than the need to secure oil. We should have just come out and said this,,,history probably would have judged us better.

Sure, Saddam has killed his own people, but many can rightfully argue that he did so with our approval, even 'help'.

 

[ryan_velo.]

I totally agree. For me, this move on Iraq was so distant from having anything to do with 9/11, I couldn't even understand how it could politically materialize. Everyone knew that Saddam Hussein was about as religious as Joseph Stalin, so to have religious fanatics in his camp was an impossible idea, would simply NOT happen! Al Qaeda and Saddam would never have cooperated with each other. Maybe in the lower echelons there were agreements to let them find shelter or pass through his country, but every country in the Middle east is guilty of this. Bottom line: We invaded a sovereign country and deposed its leadership for no cause whatsoever other than the need to secure oil. We should have just come out and said this,,,history probably would have judged us better.

Sure, Saddam has killed his own people, but many can rightfully argue that he did so with our approval, even 'help'.

Yes, you are so right, with our 'aproval'. But when he went into quwate we did something about it then, because he was messing with oil feilds. sadam killed 10,000 kurds, the U.S. has killed 100,000 during this invasion. & what many people don't know is that sadam & binladen bitterly hated each other.

 

[Olasnah]

Yes, you are so right, with our 'aproval'. But when he went into quwate we did something about it then, because he was messing with oil feilds. sadam killed 10,000 kurds, the U.S. has killed 100,000 during this invasion. & what many people don't know is that sadam & binladen bitterly hated each other.

That's Kuwait. Normally I don't correct spelling, but you're butchering the name of that country something horrible. I agree with you though. We probably won't ever learn the true casualties of this war.

 

[ryan_velo.]

That's Kuwait. Normally I don't correct spelling, but you're butchering the name of that country something horrible. I agree with you though. We probably won't ever learn the true casualties of this war.

Sorry for the typo, that was embarrassing. I know how it's spelled, I just type what ever comes to mind & some times I don't go over my posts.

 

[limerickman]

I would have responded to this thread sooner but I was busy making several trips to my overstocked mega refrigerator for a snack whilst I cleaned my squirrel rifle.
I shot my self in the hand probably because of a drug induced stupor.
I'll be ok as soon as get treatment with the local faith healer.

But seriously, I will agree too many Americans are over weight. That I do concede.

There are far too many fat people everywhere.

I don't know what it is - they can't all be lazy people, can they ?
I saw my fair share of overweight/obese people in NYC but that can be equally applied to London/Dublin.

The only places where I have rarely seen an overweight/obese person is in France and Italy.
Which confuses me because Italian food is fattening.

I think people need to look at the foods and their lifestyles.