Buying a high-end frame - sight unseen?

[neil0502]

I just went through the process of choosing a high-end frame builder (eventually selecting a Moots). It's my first road bike. I ride a tourer.

I quickly realized that it's not uncommon, when you get to the boutique builders at the higher end, you may be considering buying a frame from a builder whose work you've never actually seen.

How many of you have done this--bought a bike without ever laying a hand on--or throwing a leg over--an example of that builder's work?

How did you make your choice? Anything you would have done differently?

Neil

 

[boudreaux]

I just went through the process of choosing a high-end frame builder (eventually selecting a Moots). It's my first road bike. I ride a tourer.

I quickly realized that it's not uncommon, when you get to the boutique builders at the higher end, you may be considering buying a frame from a builder whose work you've never actually seen.

How many of you have done this--bought a bike without ever laying a hand on--or throwing a leg over--an example of that builder's work?

How did you make your choice? Anything you would have done differently?

Neil

Yeah, many times.Never rode or even saw a frame before buying.But knew what I wanted and needed.It's done all the time with high end stuff.

 

[neil0502]

Yeah, many times.Never rode or even saw a frame before buying.But knew what I wanted and needed.It's done all the time with high end stuff.

Yeah, but how?

Internet research to define the field, then further Googling/Usenet searching to get the opinions of unknown cyclists, followed by myriad conversations with the builder (asking what?)?

Bikes seem to be pretty exceptional that way. A high-dollar purchase where we strive for ride quality and handling perfection--very qualitative issues--without ever having felt them.

 

[litespeedguy]

Unless the knuckes are draggin, go stock ; do all the fit calculations before hand , i.e. LeMond's method and others - then do some averaging and plunk the bucks on stock.

"custom" fit can be subjective also - 5 builders, 5 different frames.

I have a stock LiteSpeed and couldn't be happier !!

 

[boudreaux]

Yeah, but how?

Internet research to define the field, then further Googling/Usenet searching to get the opinions of unknown cyclists, followed by myriad conversations with the builder (asking what?)?

Bikes seem to be pretty exceptional that way. A high-dollar purchase where we strive for ride quality and handling perfection--very qualitative issues--without ever having felt them.

Well,actually before Al Gore even invented the internet. Bought a few used bikes cheap. Tried em out and sold em. Nailed down size and geometry that worked. There are no dogs in my stable and there is damm little difference in quality frames beyond the name on the downtube, and how much someone is willing to pay, often for little benefit. A good builder that knows what he/she is doing will make it ride and handle right given the correct imput. Folks will argue Moots,Seven Serotta, whatever.....endlessly,yet couldn't tell the difference in a blind test. And FWIW, opinions especially when it comes to subjective stuff like bikes are like a$$ holes anyway. I would think having Moots build a touring bike is somewhat a waste of money. That's just an opinion.

 

[neil0502]

Well,actually before Al Gore even invented the internet. Bought a few used bikes cheap. Tried em out and sold em. Nailed down size and geometry that worked. There are no dogs in my stable and there is damm little difference in quality frames beyond the name on the downtube, and how much someone is willing to pay, often for little benefit. A good builder that knows what he/she is doing will make it ride and handle right given the correct imput. Folks will argue Moots,Seven Serotta, whatever.....endlessly,yet couldn't tell the difference in a blind test. And FWIW, opinions especially when it comes to subjective stuff like bikes are like a$$ holes anyway. I would think having Moots build a touring bike is somewhat a waste of money. That's just an opinion.

That's kind of the sense I had. I also assumed that, with exceptions, there are precious few really bad frames in the $2k+ range. If you know what material you want (Al, Ti, Steel, CF), your budget, and the geometry that fits you and your riding style best, you can virtually throw darts or pick by aesthetics. The intangibles, like how well your conversations with the builder went, start to matter, too.

Aside from the opinionsssholes comparison, I think there's also something to the notion that very few people who just dumped eight grand on a bike are going to tell you anything other than "I love it!"

Incidentally, while Moots has begun to make a touring bike, the Mootour, I'm buying their Vamoots road frame. My current bike is the tourer (Cannondale T2000). Good enough bike, but allergic to hills.

 

[meehs]

"custom" fit can be subjective also - 5 builders, 5 different frames.

Unless you know and relay to the builder exactly what you want.

 

[meehs]

...My current bike is the tourer (Cannondale T2000). Good enough bike, but allergic to hills.

A Cannondale triple that's allergic to hills? You sure it's not the rider that has the allergy?

 

[neil0502]

A Cannondale triple that's allergic to hills? You sure it's not the rider that has the allergy?

M.I.S.? Muscle Insufficiency Syndrome? Could be some of that, too, but--at just shy of 30 pounds, the bike's pretty happy on flats, and ecstatic going downhill. Carrying my 185# around probably doesn't help either.

 

[neil0502]

Unless the knuckes are draggin, go stock ; do all the fit calculations before hand , i.e. LeMond's method and others - then do some averaging and plunk the bucks on stock.

"custom" fit can be subjective also - 5 builders, 5 different frames.

I have a stock LiteSpeed and couldn't be happier !!

I agree: I wasn't doing anything custom unless there was a legit reason to. After from being measured a couple of times, I used LeMond's figs, Klein's figs, and most of these sites to verify what I needed:

Bicycle Source
Peter White Cycles
ErgoBike measuring calculator - Excellent Site!
A WHOLE PAGE OF LINKS TO FIT SITES!
Sheldon Brown's Fit Page
Bill Boston
Keith Bontrager's Fit Approach
TiemerCycles

In my case, pretty much all the numbers agreed . . . and the stock 59cm geometry from Moots (+/- saddle and stem adjustments) worked perfectly.