Cadence vs Heart Rate

Discussion in 'Triathlon' started by Mike Charles, Aug 3, 2003.

  1. Mike Charles

    Mike Charles Guest

    I was watching Lance Armstrong in the final Tour de France time trial and the commentator mentioned
    that his cadence was around 110. I believe that he was traveling around 30mph but there was no
    information shared about his expected heart rate level.

    I was wondering if anyone knew what heart rate the competitive cyclists push too while in races ? I
    am pretty new to the sport so I have been trying to push right up to my lactace threshold (167) and
    hold there for racing. This has given me OK results but I am wondering if anyone has experience with
    more a more aggressive strategy ? Any help is appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Mike Charles
     
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  2. Shelbye305

    Shelbye305 Guest

    Go to this url and see actua the heart rates of two actuall Tour de France riders for most of the
    Tour segments. They also give elevation and speed.
     
  3. Jkmsg

    Jkmsg Guest

    [email protected] (Mike Charles) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...

    Well, you have the right idea... only one problem, your not Lance Armstrong. You are correct, his
    cadence per HR is a crucial determinant of efficiency of effort. And, so is watts generated at a
    particular HR. However, training like Lance may not give the same results for your body. In fact, I
    guarantee it won't.

    His HR may be only 145 at his cadence... yours might be 155. What that means is that he is in
    better shape. To copy his HR at his cadence would not be reasonable (O.K., it would probably be a
    dumb idea).

    Lance is a small rider, who has genetic advantages that most don't have. O.K., let's assume you
    are the exact body type as Lance. Now, you also have the same athletic background, training
    regimen and genetics. Now there may be some value in knowing his cadence to HR ratio. However,
    this is very unlikely. In which case, you need to establish your own efficiency scale (i.e.,
    Cadence to HR ratio).

    The most efficient endurance athletes have more slow-twitch muscles fibers. All things being equal,
    the more slow-twitch muscle fibers you have, the more power you can produce at the same oxygen
    consumption. And, there is no evidence to show you can do this with training. But, you can use your
    existing muscle breakdown to be more efficient. To do that would mean you would have to establish
    your own cadence to HR efficient ratio. That would result in increase power. Simply copying Lances
    efficiency level would not equate to you improving. In fact, it probably won't.

    You can't just increase (or decrease) your HR at a specific Cadence. You have to have an efficient
    Aerobic system like Lance to get the same effect. And, unless your a physiological clone of Lance's
    your not going to succeed using his existing cadence to HR ratio. You must establish your own and
    grow from that point.

    BTW, Pushing your body to Lactic Threshold only represents what you can already do - training or
    racing at that level is not much of a training stimulas. In fact, it training far below lactic
    threshold is what is most likely to create improvement. Why most don't do this (commonly called base
    building) is because it feels like your not doing anything.

    FWIW Joe Moya

    See this NG post for more...

    http://www.trinewbies.com/phorum/thread-view.asp?threadid=11576&MessageID=110423#110423

    > I was watching Lance Armstrong in the final Tour de France time trial and the commentator
    > mentioned that his cadence was around 110. I believe that he was traveling around 30mph but there
    > was no information shared about his expected heart rate level.
    >
    > I was wondering if anyone knew what heart rate the competitive cyclists push too while in races ?
    > I am pretty new to the sport so I have been trying to push right up to my lactace threshold (167)
    > and hold there for racing. This has given me OK results but I am wondering if anyone has
    > experience with more a more aggressive strategy ? Any help is appreciated.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Mike Charles
     
  4. Mike Charles

    Mike Charles Guest

    [email protected] (ShelbyE305) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > The URL ...
    >
    > http://tdf.polar.fi/tourdefrance/heartrates.html

    Thanks for the link. I searched around on the polar site and some excellent cycling profiles. Below
    is the one for a "time trialist" but there are also others up there for climber, sprinter, etc..I
    don't expect to be able to match their performance, or even come close, but I expect that these will
    be helpful as I am developing my on profile.

    Again, thanks for the help.

    Time trialist identikit Age: 26 years old Height: 187 cm Weight: 73 kg
    % body fat: 9 %
    VO2 max: 79 ml / min / kg Max HR: 185 bpm / Resting HR: 42 bpm Anaerobic threshold: 169 bpm = 89%
    max HR Max power: 1000 watts / Power at threshold: 390 watts Favourite gear: 54-14 = 8.23 m
    distance per rotation Favourite pedalling cadence: 101 rpm Favourite speed: 50 km/h Favourite
    altitude: 300 metres
     
  5. Mike Charles

    Mike Charles Guest

  6. Andy Coggan

    Andy Coggan Guest

    "jkmsg" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] (Mike Charles) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > Well, you have the right idea... only one problem, your not Lance Armstrong. You are correct, his
    > cadence per HR is a crucial determinant of efficiency of effort.

    Only in the layman's sense of the word "efficiency".

    > And, so is watts generated at a particular HR.

    Actually, the only thing that matters is power...W, W/m^2 frontal area,
    W/kg, take your pick. W/beat, OTOH, can't be used to define optimal cadence (if it could, we'd all
    be riding around at 50-70 rpm).

    Andy Coggan
     
  7. Steve W.

    Steve W. Guest

    Hi Mike, I think that there is another factor you might consider, race distance. If you try to ride
    at AT for an Ironman you won't be able to hold it. For a sprint race it should be possible and maybe
    even a little low.

    Steve W.

    > I was wondering if anyone knew what heart rate the competitive cyclists push too while in races ?
    > I am pretty new to the sport so I have been trying to push right up to my lactace threshold (167)
    > and hold there for racing. This has given me OK results but I am wondering if anyone has
    > experience with more a more aggressive strategy ? Any help is appreciated.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Mike Charles
     
  8. Jkmsg

    Jkmsg Guest

    "Andy Coggan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > "jkmsg" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > [email protected] (Mike Charles) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > >
    > > Well, you have the right idea... only one problem, your not Lance Armstrong. You are correct,
    > > his cadence per HR is a crucial determinant of efficiency of effort.
    >
    > Only in the layman's sense of the word "efficiency".
    >

    Correct... but, I didn't want to make this a doctoral thesis.

    > > And, so is watts generated at a particular HR.
    >
    > Actually, the only thing that matters is power...W, W/m^2 frontal area,
    > W/kg, take your pick. W/beat, OTOH, can't be used to define optimal cadence (if it could, we'd all
    > be riding around at 50-70 rpm).

    Never intended to mean that power per HR defined optimal cadence. Power is the key element of "what
    matters". More powere is the results of good cadence, proper aerobic fitness, good training, good
    equipment, overall good biking technique, etc. In that respect, power is the only thing that
    matters. It's just that it takes a lot of individual elements/issues to make "more" power.

    >
    > Andy Coggan
     
  9. "Mike Charles" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    Hate to throw a wrench into this discussion but it is cardiac reserve that is the most important
    factor and the ability to train the heart muscle to tolerate chronic and accumulated byproducts of
    aerobic metabolism that are the limiting factors in Lance's performance. In the last time trial, he
    was clearly better hydrated and fueled and was able to handle the load

    >
    > I was wondering if anyone knew what heart rate the competitive cyclists push too while in races ?
    > I am pretty new to the sport so I have been trying to push right up to my lactace threshold (167)
    > and hold there for racing. This has given me OK results but I am wondering if anyone has
    > experience with more a more aggressive strategy ? Any help is appreciated.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Mike Charles

    --
    Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
     
  10. Andy Coggan

    Andy Coggan Guest

    "Kenneth Burres" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > Hate to throw a wrench into this discussion but it is cardiac reserve that is the most important
    > factor and the ability to train the heart muscle to tolerate chronic and accumulated byproducts of
    > aerobic metabolism that are the limiting factors

    Cardiac muscle isn't the limiting factor - it is skeletal muscle.

    Andy Coggan
     
  11. Andy Coggan

    Andy Coggan Guest

    > "Mike Charles" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > > I was wondering if anyone knew what heart rate the competitive cyclists push too while in
    > > races ?

    In mass start races? Maximum.

    > >I am pretty new to the sport so I
    > > have been trying to push right up to my lactace threshold (167) and hold there for racing. This
    > > has given me OK results but I am wondering if anyone has experience with more a more aggressive
    > > strategy ? Any help is appreciated.

    Are you talking about TTing or mass start racing? If the latter, stop looking at your HR monitor and
    start looking at your competition. If the former, the answer depends entirely upon how you define HR
    @ lactate threshold*, the distance of the TT, etc.

    *lactate threshold is NOT measured in beats/min!!

    Andy Coggan
     
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