Calf muscles - is it worth working on them?

[n crowley]

No, when the lightbulb went on I tested them on myself to see if they might work. When I saw the improvement I then went to a local swap meet to see if I could recruit some testers. Got about 6. And did regular Conconi testing. Few rode them exclusively and only two subjects actually continued on them to the point that they were able to complete a Conconi test using the PC's to compare to their pre PC conconi test. Both of these subjects saw substantial improvement (260 to 380 watts for one in 6 months and 440 to 520 watts in 9 months for the other). Several of the other subjects saw typical efficiency improvements at low powers in a few months (higher power at the same HR) but were unable to get to where they could get their HR up to their previous max and they quit because we were doing this during the racing season.

Anyhow, it was not until I had this kind of data did I feel I could honestly market them and make any claims. At the outset, I had no inkling the numbers would be this high.

The question I was hoping to get an answer to was, when you first got the idea, in what area of the pedaling did you believe the power improvements were likely to take place. Also, has any rider used these cranks when doing serious road racing ?

 

[Fday]

The question I was hoping to get an answer to was, when you first got the idea, in what area of the pedaling did you believe the power improvements were likely to take place. Also, has any rider used these cranks when doing serious road racing ?

When I first invented these I thought the major improvements were going to come in the aerodynamics of my HPV. When I thought these might be useful for teaching proper pedaling on a regular bike I would have anticipated maybe a 10% improvement was possible. When I saw what the numbers actually were I then looked at the physics to see if it could be explained. It could be.

Oh, and there are a few amateur cyclists who race on them seriously and one national champion age-grouper duathlete (he races on 190's by the way). Otherwise, the vast majority race on regular cranks.

Frank

 

[bAx]

I have great calves!

 

[bAx]

http://photobucket.com/albums/y72/bAxmatt/?action=view&current=LAX.jpg


my calves!

Now if I just had the quads to match

 

[Billsworld]

The SE/SFR training and standing starts each address different aspects of your fitness.

I noticed an interesting thing this season when I started doing my uphill sprints immediately before the SFR intervals. I am trashed when I finish the uphill sprints, but after riding easy for about 7-8 minutes I can do the SFR intervals. In previous years the first few SFR intervals weren't hard at all, and it wasn't until the 5th-7th of these that I felt much stress/strain. Now, by doing the uphill sprints right before the SFR the early SFR intervals are high stress/strain along with the later intervals. When I mentioned this to my coach he said that was similar to the comments made by a guy on Quick-Step who is using the same format.

This increased stress has led to improvements (moreso than previous years) during other training efforts as well as during certain racing efforts.

I agree , SE just doesnt make sense to me especially to benifit sprints.Then again, I watch Lance climb and that makes no sense to me either. I listened to an inteview of Antoin Quist on FGF. Thats basicly how I train. Gym, standing starts, overspeed , and sprints. What event do you think it had the most benifit? I would bet Kilo and 750

 

[n crowley]

What prevents a PC learner from experiencing a power increase at day one, even if only for a short period. ? What I am trying to establish is where does a PC rider believe it's possible for him to apply more power with this PC equipment.

 

[Fday]

What prevents a PC learner from experiencing a power increase at day one, even if only for a short period. ? What I am trying to establish is where does a PC rider believe it's possible for him to apply more power with this PC equipment.

Nothing prevents immediate power increases if they have a pretty good circular pedaling coordination to begin with. This may be 5% of the people who get on them. But, they will be limited in how long they will be able to do it. Many customers are noticing increased power within a week, at least for short periods. Most cannot because they have poor coordination skills and cannot push with any force without falling apart. these people take a little longer because they need to both develop the coordination skills and get some base aerobic conditioning in the weakest muscles.

 

[n crowley]

Nothing prevents immediate power increases if they have a pretty good circular pedaling coordination to begin with. This may be 5% of the people who get on them. But, they will be limited in how long they will be able to do it. Many customers are noticing increased power within a week, at least for short periods. Most cannot because they have poor coordination skills and cannot push with any force without falling apart. these people take a little longer because they need to both develop the coordination skills and get some base aerobic conditioning in the weakest muscles.

Where are this 5% generating the additional power on day one ? What are these weakest muscles ?

 

[Fday]

Where are this 5% generating the additional power on day one ? What are these weakest muscles ?

I don't know where it is coming from. I would guess it is simply from better anticipating the change from push to pull so a better top and bottom, but that is a guess. The weakest muscles are the Hip flexors in about 75% of the people, and the hamstrings in the rest.

 

[n crowley]

I don't know where it is coming from. I would guess it is simply from better anticipating the change from push to pull so a better top and bottom, but that is a guess. The weakest muscles are the Hip flexors in about 75% of the people, and the hamstrings in the rest.

How can you make a claim of increase in power when you have no proof or explanation of how this extra power is generated or where it is applied to the pedals. Because you are using the circular technique, except for the unweighting effect there can be no power increase. I now believe that when you first got the idea, you thought it was possible to increase power by concentrating on serious pulling up and adding this to the normal downward pressure. But this technique will not work. I too can guarantee a power increase for TT riding, but I can explain in detail how it's generated and the method used for applying it to normal pedals/cranks.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

I too can guarantee a power increase for TT riding, but I can explain in detail how it's generated and the method used for applying it to normal pedals/cranks.

So can i (and anyone else). Press harder on the pedals and pedal faster, and hey presto you're generating more power.

Ric

 

[n crowley]

So can i (and anyone else). Press harder on the pedals and pedal faster, and hey presto you're generating more power.

Ric

Not as simple as that, it involves replacing the dead spot area with max pedal power and making use of freely available arm resistance and support which is something that cannot be done with any of the natural (vertical pedal pressure) pedaling styles. There you have the explanation for my mysterious and genuine power increase. When everyone can do it there is no advantage, so that rules out your suggestion.

 

[Fday]

How can you make a claim of increase in power when you have no proof or explanation of how this extra power is generated or where it is applied to the pedals. Because you are using the circular technique, except for the unweighting effect there can be no power increase. I now believe that when you first got the idea, you thought it was possible to increase power by concentrating on serious pulling up and adding this to the normal downward pressure. But this technique will not work. I too can guarantee a power increase for TT riding, but I can explain in detail how it's generated and the method used for applying it to normal pedals/cranks.

It is easy for me to make the claims of increased power I do because these imcreases occur in most users. There is no doubt to that. What is difficult for me to know is exactly why it is occuring when there are several possible explanations and the work has not been done to understand which changes or combination of changes are responsible (or most important) for what is observed. You asked me a bunch of technical things and I told you what I predict will be found when it is investigated.

Frank

 

[Fday]

So can i (and anyone else). Press harder on the pedals and pedal faster, and hey presto you're generating more power.

Ric

So, how do you guarantee power increases using this presto technique to the athlete whose performance has plateaued and who is having trouble "pushing harder or pedaling faster"?

 

[ric_stern/RST]

It is easy for me to make the claims of increased power I do because these imcreases occur in most users. There is no doubt to that.

So where are these 40% increases in power that i keep asking about and the startling success that these riders would have?

Ric

 

[Fday]

So where are these 40% increases in power that i keep asking about and the startling success that these riders would have?

Ric

Ric,

Rather than me getting into a "yes they can, no they can't" shouting contest with you by giving you more anecdotal examples why don't you take a poll of what people have seen who have actually used them close to what we recommend for the appropriate period of time and see what the results are? You will have to promise to not call anyone who might attribute improvements to the cranks an idiot and shill though if you expect anyone to participate. Maybe you will be able to dig up someone who has actually used the cranks as we recommend who has failed to improve (or, even, gotten worse). They have to exist, don't they?

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Ric,

Rather than me getting into a "yes they can, no they can't" shouting contest with you by giving you more anecdotal examples why don't you take a poll of what people have seen who have actually used them close to what we recommend for the appropriate period of time and see what the results are? You will have to promise to not call anyone who might attribute improvements to the cranks an idiot and shill though if you expect anyone to participate. Maybe you will be able to dig up someone who has actually used the cranks as we recommend who has failed to improve (or, even, gotten worse). They have to exist, don't they?

why would i call anyone an idiot?

i haven't seen anyone come foward here and declare they've seen a massive increase in power. this is a big site, lots of people read it.

i did see some reports that someone posted here from pezcycling, where the guy testing them was taking a terrible pasting. i have heard of others struggling with them.

i've never seen anyone go from "average" to beating the hell out of everyone and jump to pro level with your cranks.

ric

 

[Billsworld]

Well guys, although this subject morphed from another. I am lumping this thread into the pull up push down thread (or whatever it was called ) and we are on page 44

 

[whoawhoa]

Ric,

Rather than me getting into a "yes they can, no they can't" shouting contest with you by giving you more anecdotal examples why don't you take a poll of what people have seen who have actually used them close to what we recommend for the appropriate period of time and see what the results are? You will have to promise to not call anyone who might attribute improvements to the cranks an idiot and shill though if you expect anyone to participate. Maybe you will be able to dig up someone who has actually used the cranks as we recommend who has failed to improve (or, even, gotten worse). They have to exist, don't they?

Frank-would you call this an appropriate period of time: http://pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=3353
(10 watt improvement in maximal aerobic power in a poorly trained individual over 5 months)

 

[n crowley]

It is easy for me to make the claims of increased power I do because these imcreases occur in most users. There is no doubt to that. What is difficult for me to know is exactly why it is occuring when there are several possible explanations and the work has not been done to understand which changes or combination of changes are responsible (or most important) for what is observed. You asked me a bunch of technical things and I told you what I predict will be found when it is investigated.

Frank

Maybe there is an explanation but why would you go to the trouble of making these cranks if you did not have a clue as to where any worthwhile advantage could be found. Why do PC user muscles become sore after very limited use. This does not happen with the normal perfect unweighting technique. I can only attribute this to pulling up more than is necessary for unweighting in this case leg/pedal/crank. What possible explanations are you referring to above.